New Soaring Software for iPhones - Lufty

[[email protected]]

This new app for iOS looks interesting and is supposed to be available this month. It will be interesting to see how it compares to iGlide.

https://lufty.app/

[Moshe Braner]

On 4/23/2021 9:12 AM, wrote:
> This new app for iOS looks interesting and is supposed to be available this month. It will be interesting to see how it compares to iGlide.
>
> https://lufty.app/
>

That page says, among other things:

"Full-feature Gliding navigation powered by Mapbox
Airspace warnings, airports, waypoints, simply anything you might need
on your route via blue skies."

- the meaning of that is unclear, but I suspect that means it will get
map data "on the fly" from their server? Or will it download such data
at home before flying?

I wouldn't count on a cellphone data connection working continuously
while flying. My experience with live tracking using the IGCdroid app
is that the cellphone data connection is in spurts, often disconnecting
for 15-30 minutes before finding a signal again. That's in the Vermont
and New Hampshire area, it probably differs in other areas - for better
or worse.

[Mark Mocho]

> I wouldn't count on a cellphone data connection working continuously
> while flying.

Cell phone data connection in New Mexico while at 17,500' in the mountains.....

Haha! Unlikely.

Heck, it isn't all that reliable on the ground!

[Dan Marotta]

That sounds like a Chinese attempt at Engrish (English). These things
can be fun but I certainly wouldn't put any stock in them.

Dan
5J

On 4/23/21 7:30 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:

> Airspace warnings, airports, waypoints, simply anything you might need
> on your route via blue skies."

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 23, 2021 at 12:46:15 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> That sounds like a Chinese attempt at Engrish (English). These things
> can be fun but I certainly wouldn't put any stock in them.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 4/23/21 7:30 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
>
> > Airspace warnings, airports, waypoints, simply anything you might need
> > on your route via blue skies.

Always with the negative waves ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 4/23/2021 7:16 AM, Mark Mocho wrote:
>> I wouldn't count on a cellphone data connection working continuously
>> while flying.
>
> Cell phone data connection in New Mexico while at 17,500' in the mountains.....
>
> Haha! Unlikely.
>
> Heck, it isn't all that reliable on the ground!
>
>
I did not see any details about the implementation. Where does it say a
cell connection is required in flight? I currently use iGlide, so this
is potentially a good option.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 4/23/2021 7:16 AM, Mark Mocho wrote:
>> I wouldn't count on a cellphone data connection working continuously
>> while flying.
>
> Cell phone data connection in New Mexico while at 17,500' in the mountains.....
>
> Haha! Unlikely.
>
> Heck, it isn't all that reliable on the ground!
>
>
Wow, it looks like excellent English to me! But, I'd expect that for a
product from the Czech Republic, because the Czechs I've met speak
English very well.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 23, 2021 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 4/23/2021 7:16 AM, Mark Mocho wrote:
> >> I wouldn't count on a cellphone data connection working continuously
> >> while flying.
> >
> > Cell phone data connection in New Mexico while at 17,500' in the mountains.....
> >
> > Haha! Unlikely.
> >
> > Heck, it isn't all that reliable on the ground!
> >
> >
> Wow, it looks like excellent English to me! But, I'd expect that for a
> product from the Czech Republic, because the Czechs I've met speak
> English very well.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
FYI - The original announcement said they would release the app in April. I registered on the website for updates and they said it would be out in 10 days.

[waremark]

On Friday, 23 April 2021 at 14:12:37 UTC+1, wrote:
> This new app for iOS looks interesting and is supposed to be available this month. It will be interesting to see how it compares to iGlide.
>
> https://lufty.app/

Looks nice. Do they think they can make a better programme than iGlide or Winpilot, or will they make it cheaper?

Do you iPhone users know that Naviter the SeeYou folk are also creating flight computer software for iOs?

https://naviter.com/seeyou-navigator/

Currently, this is not a full-featured glide computer product, but I suspect that it will become so before long - perhaps when they have cleared stocks of the Oudie!

Android users are currently driven to XC Soar or Top Hat by the tempting price - zero. The programs are good so why would anyone want to pay for an alternative?

I have an Oudie IGC, which although old tech still has overwhelming advantages over phone based versions - IGC logger status, and an internal battery which runs all day. I also very much like the SeeYou software.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 23, 2021 at 8:24:46 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
> On Friday, 23 April 2021 at 14:12:37 UTC+1, wrote:
> > This new app for iOS looks interesting and is supposed to be available this month. It will be interesting to see how it compares to iGlide.
> >
> > https://lufty.app/
> Looks nice. Do they think they can make a better programme than iGlide or Winpilot, or will they make it cheaper?
>
> Do you iPhone users know that Naviter the SeeYou folk are also creating flight computer software for iOs?
>
> https://naviter.com/seeyou-navigator/
>
> Currently, this is not a full-featured glide computer product, but I suspect that it will become so before long - perhaps when they have cleared stocks of the Oudie!
>
> Android users are currently driven to XC Soar or Top Hat by the tempting price - zero. The programs are good so why would anyone want to pay for an alternative?
>
> I have an Oudie IGC, which although old tech still has overwhelming advantages over phone based versions - IGC logger status, and an internal battery which runs all day. I also very much like the SeeYou software.
.... and some of us don’t have an Oudie IGC but have an iPhone in our pocket! Reminds me of people driving around in Jeeps with a wheel cover that says, “it’s a Jeep thing ... you wouldn’t understand!�

[Patrick (LS6-b EH)]

Stephen, just get an old Android device and run XCSoar.

No data, easy file management, fully-featured. I just don't understand the preoccupation with inferior flight computers on iOS because people won't shell out $60, not $6000 for a flight computer solution used by world champions. XCSoar isn't just attractive because it's free, it's attractive because it's effective and it's free.

I can hardly remember my days using Soar Pilot on a Palm.

This is the way.

How many people at the Worlds are using iGlide. lol. Oh, I crack myself up....

[Ramy[_2_]]

What Patrick says. I have an iPhone in my pocket and like my iPhone. I want to be able to continue using it for everything else, phone calls, taking photos and what not. For a flight computer (in my case it is the backup flight computer) I rather have a dedicated no data plan smartphone (I recommend Samsung Galaxy 8 plus or better for couple hundred bucks) running XCSoar and nothing else (I actually also run IGCDroid for tracking).

Ramy

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 6:53:52 AM UTC-7, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
> Stephen, just get an old Android device and run XCSoar.
>
> No data, easy file management, fully-featured. I just don't understand the preoccupation with inferior flight computers on iOS because people won't shell out $60, not $6000 for a flight computer solution used by world champions. XCSoar isn't just attractive because it's free, it's attractive because it's effective and it's free.
>
> I can hardly remember my days using Soar Pilot on a Palm.
>
> This is the way.
>
> How many people at the Worlds are using iGlide. lol. Oh, I crack myself up...

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 11:58:07 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> What Patrick says. I have an iPhone in my pocket and like my iPhone. I want to be able to continue using it for everything else, phone calls, taking photos and what not. For a flight computer (in my case it is the backup flight computer) I rather have a dedicated no data plan smartphone (I recommend Samsung Galaxy 8 plus or better for couple hundred bucks) running XCSoar and nothing else (I actually also run IGCDroid for tracking).
>
> Ramy
> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 6:53:52 AM UTC-7, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
> > Stephen, just get an old Android device and run XCSoar.
> >
> > No data, easy file management, fully-featured. I just don't understand the preoccupation with inferior flight computers on iOS because people won't shell out $60, not $6000 for a flight computer solution used by world champions. XCSoar isn't just attractive because it's free, it's attractive because it's effective and it's free.
> >
> > I can hardly remember my days using Soar Pilot on a Palm.
> >
> > This is the way.
> >
> > How many people at the Worlds are using iGlide. lol. Oh, I crack myself up...
If we weren’t open to new software options, we’d all be browsing using Netscape!

[Bruce Friesen]

> > >
> > > How many people at the Worlds are using iGlide. lol. Oh, I crack myself up...
> If we weren’t open to new software options, we’d all be browsing using Netscape!

Or, LK8000.

[Moshe Braner]

On 4/24/2021 11:58 AM, Ramy wrote:
> What Patrick says. I have an iPhone in my pocket and like my iPhone. I want to be able to continue using it for everything else, phone calls, taking photos and what not. For a flight computer (in my case it is the backup flight computer) I rather have a dedicated no data plan smartphone (I recommend Samsung Galaxy 8 plus or better for couple hundred bucks) running XCSoar and nothing else (I actually also run IGCDroid for tracking).
>
> Ramy
>
> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 6:53:52 AM UTC-7, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
>> Stephen, just get an old Android device and run XCSoar.
>>
>> No data, easy file management, fully-featured. I just don't understand the preoccupation with inferior flight computers on iOS because people won't shell out $60, not $6000 for a flight computer solution used by world champions. XCSoar isn't just attractive because it's free, it's attractive because it's effective and it's free.
>>
>> I can hardly remember my days using Soar Pilot on a Palm.
>>
>> This is the way.
>>
>> How many people at the Worlds are using iGlide. lol. Oh, I crack myself up...

Ramy, if your dedicated phone doesn't have a data plan, how can you have
IGCdroid do live tracking on it?

OTOH, if you do run XCsoar on a phone with a data plan, you can do live
tracking on "Skylines" from within XCsoar (or Tophat).

Or so I'm told. I use Tophat on an e-reader with no cellphone radio,
and, separately, IGCdroid on my Android phone with a data plan. My data
plan is minimal, so I run a firewall app on it that only lets IGCdroid
through. Otherwise a lot of apps (especially Google's) think that the
"no background data" setting somehow does not apply to them.

[KyleCharles]

It’s great that people are willing to spend the energy to develop glide computer apps for iOS. This is where innovation and progress come from..

But at this time, even if an iOS app was free it still doesn’t make much sense. No matter how I look at it, all I see is false economy (again, even IF is was free, which it is not).

Two reasons why:

1. Apple has only been making iPhones with screens bright enough to be usable in gliders for the last few years. These are all flagship level phones and are still fairly expensive, even used. The oldest usable iPhone is the X.. It came out four years ago, but one in good condition will still set you back about $350 or so. You might say “ yes, but I already have a iPhone X, 11, or 12 in my pocket�. This may be true..... BUT.........

2. It is less than ideal to use your personal phone as your glide computing device, even if it is just your back up computer. You might start your flight with a less than fully charged battery. You might have a long flight, kill your battery and then lose your ability to easily call for help should you need to.

I am a longtime iPhone user who was looking for the simplest solution. After research, I quickly realized that the more prudent AND cost effective solution was just to get and older android for the sole purpose of running xcsoar/tophat. I bought a mint Sony Z3 from a reputable seller on Backmarket.com for $70. The screen is very bright and the battery lasts 4 hours running xcsoar. I will always be starting my day with a fully charged battery because I am not using this device for any other purpose. If I need longer battery life in the future, I can add a piggy back battery to the Z3 or get a Galaxy Note 4 (its batteries are user replaceable and 10,000mah packs are available).

Again, I applaud efforts to make an app for iOS, but I don’t see how it’s worth the effort unless they feel they can make a significantly better product than xcsoar/tophat, which is not very probable.

[Ramy[_2_]]

Moshe I am using my iPhone hot spot to connect the Samsung Galaxy...

Ramy

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 5:44:47 PM UTC-7, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 4/24/2021 11:58 AM, Ramy wrote:
> > What Patrick says. I have an iPhone in my pocket and like my iPhone. I want to be able to continue using it for everything else, phone calls, taking photos and what not. For a flight computer (in my case it is the backup flight computer) I rather have a dedicated no data plan smartphone (I recommend Samsung Galaxy 8 plus or better for couple hundred bucks) running XCSoar and nothing else (I actually also run IGCDroid for tracking).
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 6:53:52 AM UTC-7, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
> >> Stephen, just get an old Android device and run XCSoar.
> >>
> >> No data, easy file management, fully-featured. I just don't understand the preoccupation with inferior flight computers on iOS because people won't shell out $60, not $6000 for a flight computer solution used by world champions. XCSoar isn't just attractive because it's free, it's attractive because it's effective and it's free.
> >>
> >> I can hardly remember my days using Soar Pilot on a Palm.
> >>
> >> This is the way.
> >>
> >> How many people at the Worlds are using iGlide. lol. Oh, I crack myself up...
> Ramy, if your dedicated phone doesn't have a data plan, how can you have
> IGCdroid do live tracking on it?
>
> OTOH, if you do run XCsoar on a phone with a data plan, you can do live
> tracking on "Skylines" from within XCsoar (or Tophat).
>
> Or so I'm told. I use Tophat on an e-reader with no cellphone radio,
> and, separately, IGCdroid on my Android phone with a data plan. My data
> plan is minimal, so I run a firewall app on it that only lets IGCdroid
> through. Otherwise a lot of apps (especially Google's) think that the
> "no background data" setting somehow does not apply to them.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 4/24/2021 8:48 PM, KyleCharles wrote:
> It’s great that people are willing to spend the energy to develop glide computer apps for iOS. This is where innovation and progress come from.
>
> But at this time, even if an iOS app was free it still doesn’t make much sense. No matter how I look at it, all I see is false economy (again, even IF is was free, which it is not).
>
> Two reasons why:
>
> 1. Apple has only been making iPhones with screens bright enough to be usable in gliders for the last few years. These are all flagship level phones and are still fairly expensive, even used. The oldest usable iPhone is the X. It came out four years ago, but one in good condition will still set you back about $350 or so. You might say “ yes, but I already have a iPhone X, 11, or 12 in my pocket�. This may be true..... BUT.........
>
> 2. It is less than ideal to use your personal phone as your glide computing device, even if it is just your back up computer. You might start your flight with a less than fully charged battery. You might have a long flight, kill your battery and then lose your ability to easily call for help should you need to.
>
> I am a longtime iPhone user who was looking for the simplest solution. After research, I quickly realized that the more prudent AND cost effective solution was just to get and older android for the sole purpose of running xcsoar/tophat. I bought a mint Sony Z3 from a reputable seller on Backmarket.com for $70. The screen is very bright and the battery lasts 4 hours running xcsoar. I will always be starting my day with a fully charged battery because I am not using this device for any other purpose. If I need longer battery life in the future, I can add a piggy back battery to the Z3 or get a Galaxy Note 4 (its batteries are user replaceable and 10,000mah packs are available).
>
> Again, I applaud efforts to make an app for iOS, but I don’t see how it’s worth the effort unless they feel they can make a significantly better product than xcsoar/tophat, which is not very probable.
>
I've been using an iPhone 6, then an iPhone 6+ for at least 5 years, running
iGlide. The screen is bright enough for even my 78 year old eyes.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Lukas Hykl]

Hello guys,

we are sorry for a little delay with our release caused by the pandemic, which closed our airport for a little while and made us postpone final tests a bit. Anyhow we are entering the AppStore approval process today, so the Lufty app should be available in forthcoming days.

To address some of your concerns:
Lufty allows - and we strongly recommend it - download of the maps as well as the DEM (digital elevation model - used for all the AGL calculations) therefore you won't need any data coverage while flying for Lufty to work properly. Auto updatable Airspaces are already included within the app.

Of course that the Gliding software is a computationaly heavy operation, therefore flying with the powerbank is highly recommended - the same case as with the XcSoar and other products. On the other hand, since you will have all the necessary data available offline, your iphone should be switched to the Airplane mode which saves battery considerably.

To give you some idea about our motivaton for creating Lufty: We have been using XcSoar ourselves for a quite while, while being iOS users, therefore we thought that its the time to get rid of secondary device (Android) just for flying.

We all hope, that you give Lufty a try and let us know what do you think once you do so. During may a 2 months free trial will be available (from June it will be just 30 days).

We are really looking forward to your feedback!

Best from Prague
Lukas

Dne nedÄ›le 25. dubna 2021Â*vÂ*18:51:27 UTC+2 uživatel Eric Greenwell napsal:
> On 4/24/2021 8:48 PM, KyleCharles wrote:
> > It’s great that people are willing to spend the energy to develop glide computer apps for iOS. This is where innovation and progress come from.
> >
> > But at this time, even if an iOS app was free it still doesn’t make much sense. No matter how I look at it, all I see is false economy (again, even IF is was free, which it is not).
> >
> > Two reasons why:
> >
> > 1. Apple has only been making iPhones with screens bright enough to be usable in gliders for the last few years. These are all flagship level phones and are still fairly expensive, even used. The oldest usable iPhone is the X. It came out four years ago, but one in good condition will still set you back about $350 or so. You might say “ yes, but I already have a iPhone X, 11, or 12 in my pocket�. This may be true..... BUT..........
> >
> > 2. It is less than ideal to use your personal phone as your glide computing device, even if it is just your back up computer. You might start your flight with a less than fully charged battery. You might have a long flight, kill your battery and then lose your ability to easily call for help should you need to.
> >
> > I am a longtime iPhone user who was looking for the simplest solution. After research, I quickly realized that the more prudent AND cost effective solution was just to get and older android for the sole purpose of running xcsoar/tophat. I bought a mint Sony Z3 from a reputable seller on Backmarket.com for $70. The screen is very bright and the battery lasts 4 hours running xcsoar. I will always be starting my day with a fully charged battery because I am not using this device for any other purpose. If I need longer battery life in the future, I can add a piggy back battery to the Z3 or get a Galaxy Note 4 (its batteries are user replaceable and 10,000mah packs are available).
> >
> > Again, I applaud efforts to make an app for iOS, but I don’t see how it’s worth the effort unless they feel they can make a significantly better product than xcsoar/tophat, which is not very probable.
> >
> I've been using an iPhone 6, then an iPhone 6+ for at least 5 years, running
> iGlide. The screen is bright enough for even my 78 year old eyes.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 4:18:28 AM UTC-4, Lukas Hykl wrote:
> Hello guys,
>
> we are sorry for a little delay with our release caused by the pandemic, which closed our airport for a little while and made us postpone final tests a bit. Anyhow we are entering the AppStore approval process today, so the Lufty app should be available in forthcoming days.
>
> To address some of your concerns:
> Lufty allows - and we strongly recommend it - download of the maps as well as the DEM (digital elevation model - used for all the AGL calculations) therefore you won't need any data coverage while flying for Lufty to work properly. Auto updatable Airspaces are already included within the app.
>
> Of course that the Gliding software is a computationaly heavy operation, therefore flying with the powerbank is highly recommended - the same case as with the XcSoar and other products. On the other hand, since you will have all the necessary data available offline, your iphone should be switched to the Airplane mode which saves battery considerably.
>
> To give you some idea about our motivaton for creating Lufty: We have been using XcSoar ourselves for a quite while, while being iOS users, therefore we thought that its the time to get rid of secondary device (Android) just for flying.
>
> We all hope, that you give Lufty a try and let us know what do you think once you do so. During may a 2 months free trial will be available (from June it will be just 30 days).
>
> We are really looking forward to your feedback!
>
> Best from Prague
> Lukas
>
> Dne neděle 25. dubna 2021 v 18:51:27 UTC+2 uživatel Eric Greenwell napsal:
> > On 4/24/2021 8:48 PM, KyleCharles wrote:
> > > It’s great that people are willing to spend the energy to develop glide computer apps for iOS. This is where innovation and progress come from.
> > >
> > > But at this time, even if an iOS app was free it still doesn’t make much sense. No matter how I look at it, all I see is false economy (again, even IF is was free, which it is not).
> > >
> > > Two reasons why:
> > >
> > > 1. Apple has only been making iPhones with screens bright enough to be usable in gliders for the last few years. These are all flagship level phones and are still fairly expensive, even used. The oldest usable iPhone is the X. It came out four years ago, but one in good condition will still set you back about $350 or so. You might say “ yes, but I already have a iPhone X, 11, or 12 in my pocket�. This may be true..... BUT..........
> > >
> > > 2. It is less than ideal to use your personal phone as your glide computing device, even if it is just your back up computer. You might start your flight with a less than fully charged battery. You might have a long flight, kill your battery and then lose your ability to easily call for help should you need to.
> > >
> > > I am a longtime iPhone user who was looking for the simplest solution.. After research, I quickly realized that the more prudent AND cost effective solution was just to get and older android for the sole purpose of running xcsoar/tophat. I bought a mint Sony Z3 from a reputable seller on Backmarket.com for $70. The screen is very bright and the battery lasts 4 hours running xcsoar. I will always be starting my day with a fully charged battery because I am not using this device for any other purpose. If I need longer battery life in the future, I can add a piggy back battery to the Z3 or get a Galaxy Note 4 (its batteries are user replaceable and 10,000mah packs are available).
> > >
> > > Again, I applaud efforts to make an app for iOS, but I don’t see how it’s worth the effort unless they feel they can make a significantly better product than xcsoar/tophat, which is not very probable.
> > >
> > I've been using an iPhone 6, then an iPhone 6+ for at least 5 years, running
> > iGlide. The screen is bright enough for even my 78 year old eyes.
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

I downloaded the app and installed it on my phone. I currently use iGlide as a backup navigation to my LX9000. I must say the Lufty completely fails in usability department. The min number of nav boxes (can not remove them) take 60% of the screen real estate, so you are left with a tiny moving map. If I were to rate the app I would give it zero star since it is not really usable.