Semi - NORDO in a Champ to Oshkosh - Misc questions

[Mike Johnson]

Wife and I want to go to Oshkosh this year in our '46 Champ.
It's about 850 - 900 miles from the east coast, and we'd
like to camp along the way and after we arrive.

I'd love any suggestions, but here's some of my thoughts and
questions.

1) We've no source of power other than the main battery and
any extras we carry. We're carrying camping gear so in a
Champ, every ounce is critical. I've got to have radio for
Oshkosh, and can't be certain I can charge anything enroute,
so I'm thinking about going mostly NORDO.

2) No transponder, so Flight Following is out - correct?
Even if I had power for radio.

3) I'm considering some solar cells - sitting on the panel.
I run a 14 volt battery system (radio doesn't like 12
volts). Has anyone else done this - results? The specs
seem to say they run a max of 16+ volts. That's a fully
charged 14 volt battery, but I suspect they put out almost
no current at that voltage, and are designed to supply their
power to a nominal 12 volt system, not nominal 14 volts.

4) Am I crazy to think of taking the Chicago shoreline? I'm
not comfortable with the lake crossing even with LRS, and
the western route around Chicago adds an awful lot of miles,
plus it's less scenic. I'd run GPS handheld during this
stretch to help with the airspace issues, but tentatively
plan to remain NORDO. Would I be likely to get into the
class D's near Chicago along the shoreline for transition
considering I'm slant x-ray, or should I just go
over/around?

5) How would you handle in flight weather to minimize radio
use? We'll carry a pair of cellphones, one that's web
browser enabled. Any good sites for weather that I can get
on the phone?

6) How about some camping at Oshkosh tips or checklists.
I've got the notam.

7) Can I ship stuff to Osh for use there, so I dont have to
carry it? Where do I ship it to?

8) I'm an EAA member, does my wife need to join?

9) Is there a store (Walmart etc. for food, batteries,
gear?) Is it likely I can buy/borrow a hammer there to bang
in the tiedowns. Is there any chance it will be cold -
we're thinking of some sheets and a light cover rather than
sleeping bags - the former are lighter.

10) We want to shoot photos, but we're digital. Any
suggestions on getting our memory stick photos onto CDs?
I'm hoping some kind soul will have a laptop and burner,
then let us read the cards via USB and we'll bring the CD's.

Thanks for any comments.

[john smith]

Mike Johnson wrote:
> Wife and I want to go to Oshkosh this year in our '46 Champ.
> It's about 850 - 900 miles from the east coast, and we'd
> like to camp along the way and after we arrive.
> I'd love any suggestions, but here's some of my thoughts and
> questions.

Unless you have the extra wing tank or an aft fuselage tank, you are
flying two hour legs, correct?

> 1) We've no source of power other than the main battery and
> any extras we carry. We're carrying camping gear so in a
> Champ, every ounce is critical. I've got to have radio for
> Oshkosh, and can't be certain I can charge anything enroute,
> so I'm thinking about going mostly NORDO.

NORDO is not a problem flying cross country. A handheld COMM with a
battery pack that you can insert disposable batteries in is all you
need. AA's can be purchased most anywhere.

> 2) No transponder, so Flight Following is out - correct?
> Even if I had power for radio.

You don't need flight following, your legs are only going to be two
hours +/-. Crossing the mountains, follow main roads. The whole world is
your landing area in a Champ. Any field or road without powerpoles or
signposts will do.

> 3) I'm considering some solar cells - sitting on the panel.
> I run a 14 volt battery system (radio doesn't like 12
> volts). Has anyone else done this - results? The specs
> seem to say they run a max of 16+ volts. That's a fully
> charged 14 volt battery, but I suspect they put out almost
> no current at that voltage, and are designed to supply their
> power to a nominal 12 volt system, not nominal 14 volts.

A solar cell charger will work as long as there is clear skies.

> 4) Am I crazy to think of taking the Chicago shoreline? I'm
> not comfortable with the lake crossing even with LRS, and
> the western route around Chicago adds an awful lot of miles,
> plus it's less scenic. I'd run GPS handheld during this
> stretch to help with the airspace issues, but tentatively
> plan to remain NORDO. Would I be likely to get into the
> class D's near Chicago along the shoreline for transition
> considering I'm slant x-ray, or should I just go
> over/around?

You can go the shoreline. There is one airport north of Chicago (Racine
WI?) whose CDAS extends out into the water, but you can go around it to
the south and then swing north. You can also fly beneath the CBAS
around/over Chicago then north and follow the DuPage River north to the
highway and on to OSH. Clow International used to have a nice restaurant.

> 5) How would you handle in flight weather to minimize radio
> use? We'll carry a pair of cellphones, one that's web
> browser enabled. Any good sites for weather that I can get
> on the phone?

Again, you are only flying two hour legs, you can easily check the
weather at each stop and decide on your route and go/no-go options.

> 6) How about some camping at Oshkosh tips or checklists.
> I've got the notam.

See Rick Durden's archived columns on www.avweb.com.
Whith the Champ, you have several options for camping, Vintage Aircraft
or North 40. Vintage puts you in with one nice bunch of people, North 40
puts you in with a different bunch of nice people. If you camp on the
north side of R9/27, you are within a half-mile walk of multiple stores
and restaurants (food, supplies... Pick N' Save groceries, Target, etc)

> 7) Can I ship stuff to Osh for use there, so I dont have to
> carry it? Where do I ship it to?

Don't have personal knowledge about that.

> 8) I'm an EAA member, does my wife need to join?

No, you can purchase additional passes for family members at the same
rate that you pay.

> 9) Is there a store (Walmart etc. for food, batteries,
> gear?) Is it likely I can buy/borrow a hammer there to bang
> in the tiedowns. Is there any chance it will be cold -
> we're thinking of some sheets and a light cover rather than
> sleeping bags - the former are lighter.

See #6 above. WalMart moved to a superstore two-miles away two years
ago. There was a rumor that you can get a bus to and from the new store.
Target gets daily shipments to replenish their camping supplies every
night during AirVenture. Borrowing a hammer shouldn't be a problem. Plan
on weather ranging from 90's and humid to 30's and wet (all in the same
day). Options are fleece sleeping bag/down comforter or lightweight down
bags. A sleeping pad is a necessity. Last year the temperatures dipped
into the upper-30's overnight for a couple of days.

> 10) We want to shoot photos, but we're digital. Any
> suggestions on getting our memory stick photos onto CDs?
> I'm hoping some kind soul will have a laptop and burner,
> then let us read the cards via USB and we'll bring the CD's.

I am waiting to see if Kodak offers such a service this year. There is
certainly enough demand for it. There are enough laptops on the field,
it is finding someone with a card reader attached that could be a challenge.

[Blanche Cohen]

Mike Johnson > wrote:
>6) How about some camping at Oshkosh tips or checklists.
>I've got the notam.

North 40 or you are likely eligible for the showplane category.

>7) Can I ship stuff to Osh for use there, so I dont have to
>carry it? Where do I ship it to?

Of course! IIRC either FedEx or UPS has a temp office on the
grounds to ship stuff out! As for the incoming, someone around
here know the answer to that?

>8) I'm an EAA member, does my wife need to join?

Don't think so. Is WI a community-property state? (*chortle*) but
I'm not sure she gets the discount on admittance to the show grounds
itself. Someone know the answer?

>9) Is there a store (Walmart etc. for food, batteries,
>gear?) Is it likely I can buy/borrow a hammer there to bang
>in the tiedowns. Is there any chance it will be cold -
>we're thinking of some sheets and a light cover rather than
>sleeping bags - the former are lighter.

Yes, but not easy walking distance anymore (it moved).
Yup.
Yup. Alternates between hot & humid and chilling & storming rain.
Ship the sleeping bags. Or buy the cheap junk at Walmart and
donate it to a local charity before you leave.

>10) We want to shoot photos, but we're digital. Any
>suggestions on getting our memory stick photos onto CDs?
>I'm hoping some kind soul will have a laptop and burner,
>then let us read the cards via USB and we'll bring the CD's.

Kinko's (not in walking distance, sorry) has all this. The
problem is power. There's not much installed on the grounds.
But with how-many-thousands-of-people there will be equipment,
just a case of trying to find it.

Mike, email me off-list and I'll provide more solutions.

[Montblack]

("Mike Johnson" wrote)
> Wife and I want to go to Oshkosh this year in our '46 Champ.
> It's about 850 - 900 miles from the east coast, and we'd
> like to camp along the way and after we arrive.
>
> I'd love any suggestions, but here's some of my thoughts and
> questions.


(My N40 experience)

Shower building in the N40 camping area has rows of outlets (with shelves)
for recharging "stuff".

Shower shoes - those Nike rubber things are great.

Quart (or gallon) zip-lock freezer baggie for all of your shower/bathroom
items. Works for me.

N40 is within walking distance of restaurants, bars w/good food, groceries,
etc.

Your plane will stand out a little more in the N40. In Vintage it's just
another 46' Champ :-)

N40 Camping - you're right on the East/West runway. Fun.

Vintage Camping has more of a camping feel to it - nice also.

Small LED, or penlight, for bathroom trips at night.

Folding chairs - a must. The REAL air show starts at 6:30 pm every night.
<g>

Water bottles. FREE water refills - spigots everywhere.

An Auto Show convention type bag to carry your stuff in. Water bottles,
handouts, brochures, trinkets, snacks, all get dropped into my plastic
convention bag - Saturn handed out good ones with hard plastic handles.

Small umbrella an option - last year I sat out some rain under a DC-3 wing.
I'm a no umbrella guy.

Notepad w/pencil holder - trying to figure out what you saw, two weeks later
when organizing your photos, might be difficult without good notes.

Bring an appetite ..Wednesday night (3rd annual?) rec.aviation N40 party -
find Jay's plane. We plan for about 40 people ...after the air show.

Most of all, IMHO, think of Oshkosh as an interesting vacation - not an
outdoor convention where you must get to every exhibit. Relax, have fun,
explore, and enjoy being surrounded by friends and airplanes for a week.


Montblack

[Mike Johnson]

john smith > wrote:

>Unless you have the extra wing tank or an aft fuselage tank, you are
>flying two hour legs, correct?

13 gallons at 4 gph - I'd call that a "Yep."

>You can go the shoreline. There is one airport north of Chicago (Racine
>WI?) whose CDAS extends out into the water, but you can go around it to
>the south and then swing north. You can also fly beneath the CBAS
>around/over Chicago then north and follow the DuPage River north to the
>highway and on to OSH. Clow International used to have a nice restaurant.

It looks like I'd cross Gary CDAS between 3100' and 3600,
below 3000' within 15 nm of ORD, follow shoreline until
greater than 15 nm of ORD, then west of Waukegan or over it
between 3200' and 3600' and on to Oshkosh.

>Vintage puts you in with one nice bunch of people, North 40
>puts you in with a different bunch of nice people. If you camp on the
>north side of R9/27, you are within a half-mile walk of multiple stores
>and restaurants (food, supplies... Pick N' Save groceries, Target, etc)

I'd planned to camp Vintage, but it looks like the North 40
might have some advantages. Where is Vintage located?

>I am waiting to see if Kodak offers such a service this year. There is
>certainly enough demand for it. There are enough laptops on the field,
>it is finding someone with a card reader attached that could be a challenge.

I figured I'd bring the USB reader and CD's, then all I'd
need is someone with the burner and a USB port.

Thanks for the tips.

[George Patterson]

Mike Johnson wrote:
>
> I'd planned to camp Vintage, but it looks like the North 40
> might have some advantages. Where is Vintage located?

It starts south of the tower about 200 yards and runs south from there. Very
close to the exhibits and the "Theater in the Woods", but you'd really want to
do your shopping when the trams are still running. Take a tram to the north gate
and a bus to the fence near "Friar Tuck's", and the shopping center is about 1/4
mile walk through the fence.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Dave S]

Blanche Cohen wrote:

>
> Of course! IIRC either FedEx or UPS has a temp office on the
> grounds to ship stuff out! As for the incoming, someone around
> here know the answer to that?
>
I am putting together a powerpoint presentation for first timers goin to
OSH.. and as of last week, the postal address for the on-field Post
Office was not listed on the OSH website. It should be under "support
services" near the bottom. www.airventure.com



>
>>10) We want to shoot photos, but we're digital. Any
>>suggestions on getting our memory stick photos onto CDs?
>>I'm hoping some kind soul will have a laptop and burner,
>>then let us read the cards via USB and we'll bring the CD's.
>
>
Just get BIG memory cards, and dont worry about downloads til you get
back.. a 256k card on low res (650 mb or so) can hold 600 pics on my
cam. either get a BIG card/stick or get several small ones.

Dave

[Rob]

Dave S wrote:
> >>10) We want to shoot photos, but we're digital. Any
> >>suggestions on getting our memory stick photos onto CDs?
> >>I'm hoping some kind soul will have a laptop and burner,
> >>then let us read the cards via USB and we'll bring the CD's.
> >
> >
> Just get BIG memory cards, and dont worry about downloads til you get
> back.. a 256k card on low res (650 mb or so) can hold 600 pics on my
> cam. either get a BIG card/stick or get several small ones.

There's an entrepreneurial opportunity here for someone to rent a small
space in one of the exhibit halls and equip it like a Kinko's: Color
printouts, dump your images off a memory card to a CD-ROM, sell memory
cards, public wi-fi access, ...

-R

[Jay Honeck]

> There's an entrepreneurial opportunity here for someone to rent a small
> space in one of the exhibit halls and equip it like a Kinko's: Color
> printouts, dump your images off a memory card to a CD-ROM

It's already being done.

The guys in one of the smaller type-buildings ("Antique/Classic" methinks)
have been transferring digital pix to CD-Rom for $5 bucks for the last
several years.

It's very much worth doing, and it helps a good cause, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Margy]

Mike Johnson wrote:
etc)
>
>
> I'd planned to camp Vintage, but it looks like the North 40
> might have some advantages. Where is Vintage located?

You want to camp in Vintage!!!!! It's a hell of a walk to the "business
end" of the field, but it's where the action is! Actually, we camped
in the North 40 for a number of years and we've been in Vintage for
about 10 and vintage is much more social, you can also watch the airshow
from your plane. Of course that's if you get there EARLY. If you get
there late you are in the section fondly know as Fond du Lac. Not
really that far south, but it is fairly far. Of course the later you
are in the North 40 the closer to Friar Tuck's.

Now, if you want to spend any time volunteering and you are in Vintage,
come on over to the Ops shack at 9 am or 1pm any day for your briefing.
You can do anything from parking planes to running the ops shack!
Bring closed toe shoes. If you volunteer to patrol the flight line
during the airshow you get to sit in the grass 20 feet ahead of the crowds!
>
>
>>I am waiting to see if Kodak offers such a service this year. There is
>>certainly enough demand for it. There are enough laptops on the field,
>>it is finding someone with a card reader attached that could be a challenge.
>
>
> I figured I'd bring the USB reader and CD's, then all I'd
> need is someone with the burner and a USB port.
Remind me and I'll bring the laptop. But, then you'd have to be in
Vintage ....
>
> Thanks for the tips.

Margy

[Jay Honeck]

> Most of all, IMHO, think of Oshkosh as an interesting vacation - not an
> outdoor convention where you must get to every exhibit. Relax, have fun,
> explore, and enjoy being surrounded by friends and airplanes for a week.

This is excellent advice.

This will be our 23rd consecutive OSH convention (God willin' and the crick
don't rise...), and every year I regard it less as a "convention" and more
as a "vacation" -- even though we do use it as our primary "shopping trip"
of the year for our aviation themed hotel.

It's a good idea to go into OSH with a plan of action, lest you fritter the
week away haphazardly. We usually get there a day early, and spend the
first day setting up camp and just casually scouting out the joint, to see
what (if anything) has changed from prior years. (Some years nothing
changes; other years, EVERYTHING changes...)

The second day (while we're fresh) we'll hit the Warbirds, Fly Market and
the four big exhibition hangars (A, B, C & D). We won't buy anything big,
yet -- but we'll not the location of stuff we want, and we will purchase
stuff that appears to be unique and might be gone by mid-week.

Third day is the flight line and (if our feet make it) the ultralights.
It's always fun to watch those crazy guys and their flying machines.

The fourth day is serious shopping for the inn. We load up on anything and
everything, from wing ribs to Stan Stokes prints, to key chains to
afghans...

This year it (Wednesday) will also be our annual cookout/party at our
campsite, with Montblack and Jim providing grills, etc. Simply go to one of
the good EAA folks at the entrance to the North 40 (do this earlier in the
day -- don't wait till after the airshow!) and ask them for the location of
our campsite. They can search by our last name, but our "N" number works
best, and then hoof it on out to the party to rub elbows and tip cold ones
with many of the folks you've "met" here in rec.aviation.

Day five will be shopping for Atlas (our plane), with side trips to the
smaller tents around the four big exhibition hangars. This is our most
laid-back day, but can also be our most expensive! ;-)

Day Six will be the Seaplane Base. Don't miss it, or the Friday Fish fry.
We also usually visit Mary's relatives who live in nearby Neenah.

Every afternoon we try to catch some of the airshow (although that's the
best time to really shop), and every evening we plop ourselves out in the
North 40, right alongside Rwy 9/27, to watch the REAL airshow -- the
arrivals and departures. They are WAY more fun than the performers!

See you there!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

It's been several years since we called it "Antiques & Classics".
Vintage Aircraft covers everything from 1903 to 1970.

Jay Honeck wrote:
[snip]
> The guys in one of the smaller type-buildings ("Antique/Classic" methinks)
[snip]

[john smith]

Mike Johnson wrote:
>>You can go the shoreline. There is one airport north of Chicago (Racine
>>WI?) whose CDAS extends out into the water, but you can go around it to
>>the south and then swing north. You can also fly beneath the CBAS
>>around/over Chicago then north and follow the DuPage River north to the
>>highway and on to OSH. Clow International used to have a nice restaurant.

> It looks like I'd cross Gary CDAS between 3100' and 3600,
> below 3000' within 15 nm of ORD, follow shoreline until
> greater than 15 nm of ORD, then west of Waukegan or over it
> between 3200' and 3600' and on to Oshkosh.

That's right, Racine is farther north. South of Gary and west of
Waukegan will keep you clear of CDAS.

If I wasn't flying the family, I would accompany you in the 1945 7AC
that I fly. Last time I flew it to OSH was 1986. I flew it to Sun N Fun
two years ago. OSH is eight hours and three fuel stops flying time from
Columbus OH. (Huntington IN, Clow IL, Fond du Lac WI)
You will want to land short of OSH for fuel and telephone OSH for
information on when NORDO's will be admitted. They limit the access times.j

[W P Dixon]

Wow,
Sounds like Osh is a real hoot! All my years working on planes and
hearing about it I have never been. Was working as a contractor at Midwest
in Milwaukee a few years ago and thought I was finally going to make it, but
lo and behold had to leave before the big event.
And it sounds as if you have a mighty long ride in the Champ ;) But it
will be fun!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
[snip]
> Every afternoon we try to catch some of the airshow (although that's the
> best time to really shop), and every evening we plop ourselves out in the
> North 40, right alongside Rwy 9/27, to watch the REAL airshow -- the
> arrivals and departures. They are WAY more fun than the performers!


P-51 buzzing the tent was ...unexpected! <g>

Air Show ...or Airshow???

http://www.airshow.com/blueangels.htm
Even this website (web site?) is all over the map with air show / airshow.

Is there a rule? I like airshow, but I keep seeing air show...???


Mont Black

[Jay Honeck]

> P-51 buzzing the tent was ...unexpected! <g>

That was the greatest buzz job, ever.

Of course, it helped that our tent was set up along the clear zone at the
end of Rwy 27.

Well, I probably wouldn't have been so thrilled if there had been a
mishap...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Corky Scott]

On 25 May 2005 10:57:02 -0500, Mike Johnson >
wrote:

>Wife and I want to go to Oshkosh this year in our '46 Champ.
>It's about 850 - 900 miles from the east coast, and we'd
>like to camp along the way and after we arrive.
>
>I'd love any suggestions

I flew to Oshkosh in '95 in the front seat of a UPF-7 Waco from
central Vermont. We basically just headed east till we passed
Chicago, then turned right. We did have a radio though, and two hand
held GPS's

Several things stand out in my memory of that flight: 1. Weather was
definately a factor. This route is known as the northeast corridor and
if you want to understand how bad the weather can be, just read "Fate
is the Hunter" by Ernest K. Gann. The next time I go, if I ever do
again, I will try flying north of the great lakes (in Canadian
airspace) and turn south after lake Michigan. Flying north of the
great lakes will hopefully avoid the numerous extremely violent
thunderstorms we had to dodge, which build up over the midwest and
drift eastward right through the airspace you want to fly in, and
which held us up frequently. 2. A hand held GPS is practically
invaluable. The rolling hills of central PA all look alike and the
checkerboard pattern farms and communities of Ohio and Illinois all
look the same too. Plodding along into the wind making all of 85 mph
ground speed, I had plenty of time to study them. 3. At 6' 2", I do
not fit well in the front cockpit of a Waco UPF-7. The little bit of
legroom forced me to sit like a budda for hours upon hours. I nearly
needed help exiting the airplane by the time we got back to Vermont,
and I didn't stop hurting for three days.

I would add that having a hand held radio is probably the second best
piece of equipment you should carry. The flight into Oshkosh likely
can be done nordo, but I believe you'll have to call ahead and make
plans (haven't read the current approach information this year). It
would be SO much easier for you and all involved if you could
communicate when you approached Wittman airfield though. There are a
LOT of airplanes in the sky around Oshkosh and it's comforting to know
that you've been identified and are in the right place.

Finally, much as I enjoyed being there, after three days I realised it
was time to go when I heard the blatting moan of high power engines
revving up for takeoff and turned towards the runway to see two P-51's
taking off side by side and said to myself: "Oh, just two more
Mustangs..."

Corky Scott

PS, The Waco I flew in has got to be one of the fastest of it's type
on the east coast, if not in the whole US. It cruises faster than any
other Waco or Stearman I've heard of. But one old timer who also
owned a UPF-7 Waco and lived nearby, who took off into the same gloom
that bedeviled us nearly the entire trip, beat us by a whole day to
the assembly airport ('95 was a Waco gathering year) south of Oshkosh.
We asked him how he managed that and he told us he just used an old
airliner pilot trick: When he encountered the really crummy weather in
eastern NY (mist, low clouds, rain showers, terrible visibility), he
flew out over lake Erie, turned west and dropped down to several
hundred feet. He just chugged along there knowing he would not be in
danger of terrain and avoiding, or flying through the conditions, that
turned us around and prevented us from taking off several times. He
knew of this technique because he was an old airliner pilot who had
used it to get through when the weather was terrible. Don't think we
would have used that technique even had we known of it...

[Corky Scott]

On Thu, 26 May 2005 13:34:38 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> wrote:

>>Several things stand out in my memory of that flight: 1. Weather was
>>definately a factor. This route is known as the northeast corridor and
>>if you want to understand how bad the weather can be, just read "Fate
>>is the Hunter" by Ernest K. Gann. The next time I go, if I ever do
>>again, I will try flying north of the great lakes (in Canadian
>>airspace) and turn south after lake Michigan.
>
>I've thought about via Canada, but that would add 150+ miles
>for me. Do you have reason to think better weather would
>make that a good tradeoff?

It makes sense for me up in central Vermont to consider that route
because I only have to head a few points north of west to pass north
of lake Erie from where I live. You'd have to pretty much head
directly north to pass east of the lake before turning west.

I kept hearing that the thundercells we encountered pretty much stayed
south, or over the lakes due to the prevailing northwest wind. That's
what appealed to me about flying west in Canada. On the other hand, I
haven't done it yet, so I'm making what amounts to a WAG.

We did not get to see much of Chicago when we passed it to the south
because the mother of all thundercells was sitting directly on top of
it.

We saw it from many miles away as we approached Chicago, and edged
south to go around. When we were directly opposite the city, we were
under the anvil by many miles, but flying in calm air, or so we
thought.

To our right, the sky was a vicious and evil looking dark blue green
from the sky to the ground. Right in the middle of the darkest part
of the storm, the sky was absolutely white with falling water. It
looked like we were watching an ocean dumping right on the center of
Chicago. I half expected to see waves cascading down the streets from
the center of the storm. And all the while, lightning bolts were
striking down all around the column of water. It seemed like the
lightning strikes were occurring at least once every several seconds.

Suddenly the Waco was blasted by a sudden violent gust and the pilot
instantly yelped, reduced throttle and banked away to the south.

Guess we weren't as far away from the storm as we'd thought.

The time of the day was late afternoon. We encountered one more
monster as we closed on our rendevous stop and managed to fly around
that one without much difficulty. Using the GPS made flying over
southern Wisconsin a piece of cake. We'd just alter our course west,
hold that till we'd passed the storm center and then punch in direct
to our destination and come back on course. The sameness of the
landscape made map reading ridiculously difficult. But we had them in
our laps none the less.

Corky Scott

[Rob]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > There's an entrepreneurial opportunity here for someone to rent a small
> > space in one of the exhibit halls and equip it like a Kinko's: Color
> > printouts, dump your images off a memory card to a CD-ROM
>
> It's already being done.
>
> The guys in one of the smaller type-buildings ("Antique/Classic" methinks)
> have been transferring digital pix to CD-Rom for $5 bucks for the last
> several years.
>

Well there you go. Now if we could just get some WiFi. :)

-R

[Jay Honeck]

> I flew to Oshkosh in '95 in the front seat of a UPF-7 Waco from
> central Vermont. We basically just headed east till we passed
> Chicago, then turned right.

Holy Cats, Corky -- you flew a Waco around the world???

'course, wait a minute...if you turned right at Chicago, heading Eastbound,
you'd be heading to Nashville, wouldn't you?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Finally, much as I enjoyed being there, after three days I realised it
> was time to go when I heard the blatting moan of high power engines
> revving up for takeoff and turned towards the runway to see two P-51's
> taking off side by side and said to myself: "Oh, just two more
> Mustangs..."

Bizarre, ain't it?

Here, when a T-28 does his run-up and taxies back for departure, everyone on
the airport stops to watch. Some even run around the hangars to get a
closer look, and gaze wistfully at it as he thunders down the runway.

At OSH, by the second day a T-28 doesn't even merit a glance...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> Margy > wrote:
>
> >You want to camp in Vintage!!!!! It's a hell of a walk to the "business
> > end" of the field, but it's where the action is!
>
> Margy, my wife, Karen, and I are planning to fly our little
> Champ NC1985E from Connecticut to Oshkosh this year. It
> will be our first time. Your comments and those of Jay and
> the others in this thread have been really helpful to us.
> Thanks to all of you.
>
> We're planning to stay in Vintage in the Aeronca area.
> Perhaps we'll see you there.
>
> Todd and Karen Pattist

Have you gotten all of the tips, about what kind of things to practice, if
preparation of the landing/approach regime at OSH? It is all important
(IMHO) to your comfort/peace of mind, in truly enjoying your arrival.
Reading and understanding the NOTAMs is important, but not the only thing to
consider.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Corky Scott" > wrote

When he encountered the really crummy weather in
> eastern NY (mist, low clouds, rain showers, terrible visibility), he
> flew out over lake Erie, turned west and dropped down to several
> hundred feet.

Don't think we
> would have used that technique even had we known of it...

True. All well and good, if you don't mind losing your aircraft (or paying
for underwater salvage) if your engine conks out. :-(
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
down the runway.
>
> At OSH, by the second day a T-28 doesn't even merit a glance...

Unless it is the glare type of glance, as it wakes you from your slumber,
because it is a 06:30 departure! :-( BTDT
--
Jim in NC

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Mike Johnson" > wrote in message
...
>
> 2) No transponder, so Flight Following is out - correct?
> Even if I had power for radio.
>

Correct, a rag and tube taildragger doesn't provide a reliable primary
target.


>
> 4) Am I crazy to think of taking the Chicago shoreline? I'm
> not comfortable with the lake crossing even with LRS, and
> the western route around Chicago adds an awful lot of miles,
> plus it's less scenic. I'd run GPS handheld during this
> stretch to help with the airspace issues, but tentatively
> plan to remain NORDO. Would I be likely to get into the
> class D's near Chicago along the shoreline for transition
> considering I'm slant x-ray, or should I just go
> over/around?
>

I assume you've got unshielded ignition. How reliable is your radio for
transmitting? I found I had to be damn near on top of the party I was
trying to contact with the handheld in my own 7AC, although I could receive
pretty well even 20 to 30 miles away.


>
> 5) How would you handle in flight weather to minimize radio
> use? We'll carry a pair of cellphones, one that's web
> browser enabled. Any good sites for weather that I can get
> on the phone?
>

Cellphone use in flight? The FCC frowns on that.

[Montblack]

("Morgans" wrote)
>> At OSH, by the second day a T-28 doesn't even merit a glance...
>
> Unless it is the glare type of glance, as it wakes you from your slumber,
> because it is a 06:30 departure! :-( BTDT


I really liked the 6:30am ...whatever it's called - alarm clock? Nobody has
to ask what time it is ....IT'S 6:30 AM!!

"Yawn. Oh yes, I'm sleeping next to a runway - almost forgot " :-)

I missed that 6:30am departure when I got home - sort of like I missed the
one manhole cover making noise all night, below our open third story hotel
window, on our 1998 New York City vacation. I still think "New York" when I
hear a manhole cover "clunk" "clunk" under a car's wheels.


Montblack

[Margy]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> Margy > wrote:
>
>
>>You want to camp in Vintage!!!!! It's a hell of a walk to the "business
>> end" of the field, but it's where the action is!
>
>
> Margy, my wife, Karen, and I are planning to fly our little
> Champ NC1985E from Connecticut to Oshkosh this year. It
> will be our first time. Your comments and those of Jay and
> the others in this thread have been really helpful to us.
> Thanks to all of you.
>
> We're planning to stay in Vintage in the Aeronca area.
> Perhaps we'll see you there.
>
> Todd and Karen Pattist
>
>
>
>
> "It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill."
> Wilbur Wright
We would love to meet you. I'm often in the Ops shack for the Vintage
flight line (just north of the hangar cafe on the east side of the
street). The Navion should (finally) be there, probably parked behind
the hangar cafe, it's big and blue. We have a HUGE Eureka tent in the
woods near the hangar cafe (Sally's Alley) which is where the volunteers
camp. We will be at Jay's on Wednesday niyght which is an occasion you
CAN'T miss!!! Do the Aeronca's have a resaerved area this year?

Margy

[Margy]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Finally, much as I enjoyed being there, after three days I realised it
>>was time to go when I heard the blatting moan of high power engines
>>revving up for takeoff and turned towards the runway to see two P-51's
>>taking off side by side and said to myself: "Oh, just two more
>>Mustangs..."
>
>
> Bizarre, ain't it?
>
> Here, when a T-28 does his run-up and taxies back for departure, everyone on
> the airport stops to watch. Some even run around the hangars to get a
> closer look, and gaze wistfully at it as he thunders down the runway.
>
> At OSH, by the second day a T-28 doesn't even merit a glance...
My first year at OSH everyone was running to see the Concord and I just
couldn't understand it. Ron looked at me and said "not everyone sees
the Concorde everyday!". When Leigh (daughter) was in kindergarten it
flew overhead two days a week when I was waiting for the bus and when I
was a student pilot I was often in the pattern or pre-flighting when it
was going out or coming in. Dulles can be fun!

Margy

[Jay Honeck]

> I missed that 6:30am departure when I got home - sort of like I missed the
> one manhole cover making noise all night, below our open third story hotel
> window, on our 1998 New York City vacation. I still think "New York" when
> I hear a manhole cover "clunk" "clunk" under a car's wheels.

Dang.

If I'd known about that, I'd have had one installed outside your suite
window last time you two were here!

;-)

"Iowa. It's just like New York, only smaller and no crime..."
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Corky Scott]

On Thu, 26 May 2005 19:52:25 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>Holy Cats, Corky -- you flew a Waco around the world???
>
>'course, wait a minute...if you turned right at Chicago, heading Eastbound,
>you'd be heading to Nashville, wouldn't you?

Geeze. You proof and proof and proof, think it's ok and post it and
look what happens. Good thing I don't write for a living...

Corky Scott

[jsmith]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> A new shielded harness was put into my 7AC before I bought
> it, and I've had pretty good luck for typical CDAS and CTAF
> comm. I found that handheld location was pretty important,
> so I don't hold my handheld in my hand :-) I've got a PTT
> setup with the handheld in a cradle mounted well forward,
> high on the left tubing. I'm debating adding an external
> antenna, but the only real comm difficulty I've had seems to
> be on the ground in certain orientations.

Are you using an external antenna?

[RST Engineering]

As I remember, the 7AC has a metal fairing between the fuselage and the wing
to join the fuselage, windshield, and wing. Please confirm.

If this is so, I will design and send you the parts for an external antenna
that you can mount by drilling a half inch hole in that metal fairing. In
essence, it is a 22" brass welding rod soldered into (and hot glue filled) a
BNC-M connector. A BNC-FF bulkhead connector is inserted into a half-inch
hole drilled into the metal fairing just aft of the leading edge of the
wing. A coax cable with BNC-M connectors on either end then connect the
bulkhead connector with the radio. Simple, cheap, and effective. VSWR
bandwidth is nothing to write home about, but it will work one hell of a lot
better than the rubber resistor.

The "ground plane" for this antenna is the metal fairing. If you want to
make a marginally better ground plane, you can make a short jumper wire
between the fairing and the metal fuselage tubing. Use a metal cable clamp
to connect to the tubing and a screw-nut-crimp connector to connect to the
fairing.

You want to take it off to make the airplane look more "stock"? Unconnect
the antenna and cover the bulkhead connector with another BNC-M connector
filled with hot glue. Paint the connector to match the metal fairing and 99
out of 99 people will never notice it. If they do, just tell them it is a
new design for communicating with aliens.

Payment for the parts? How about a beer at Friar Tuck's?

Jim

> A new shielded harness was put into my 7AC before I bought
> it, and I've had pretty good luck for typical CDAS and CTAF
> comm. I found that handheld location was pretty important,
> so I don't hold my handheld in my hand :-) I've got a PTT
> setup with the handheld in a cradle mounted well forward,
> high on the left tubing. I'm debating adding an external
> antenna, but the only real comm difficulty I've had seems to
> be on the ground in certain orientations.

[Morgans]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote
>
> I'd appreciate any tips or links to tips. I've read the EAA
> info pretty closely, and the notam is 32 pages with detailed
> approach sequencing and landing procedures.

I'm sure many others will chime in with their tips, but I'll get the ball
rolling.

Studying the EAA info and NOTAMS is great. Know them like the back of your
hand, because one the traffic starts packing together, you won't have time
to be reading it.

Have a sign made, indicating if you want to go to vintage camping, or North
40, or whatever. Make it big, so it can be read by flagmen 75 or so feet
away. I think Jim Weir has them as a download on the RST website.

I like your idea of coming in with a handheld. I can't imagine coming to
OSH, NORDO. Beauty is, since a lot of people say they can hear OK, but
transmitting is weak, listening is about all you have to do!

Practice spot landings, made from all kinds of speed ranges, as if you were
told to hurry up, because there is a twin on your tail. Practice going slow
up to landing, as if someone is not turning off the runway as quick as they
are supposed to. Have someone in the plane with you, not tell you if he
wants you to put it down on the numbers, at a midpoint intersection, or a
far intersection, until you are on short final, then adjust to the
instructions. Sometimes you will be told to put it down on the numbers, and
at the last minute (or 10 seconds from touchdown), be told to land long, so
you just keep it in the air, and fly down the runway.

Practice with the downwind leg VERY close in, then with one tight
descending180 degree turn, arrive lined up, on very short final.

People that are prepared to adjust and be flexible, make OSH arrival work as
well as it does. It is fun to see, and it all works amazingly well.

Make it a game, and work on all kinds of precision flight and landings, in
all speed ranges, all with your eyes outside the cockpit, because that will
be where you will be needing to look.

Comments? Other suggestions?
--
Jim in NC

[John Galban]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
>
> No. Just the rubber ducky positioned well forward and high
> with the handheld. I was intending to install an external
> (may still do it) but performance has been good enough so
> far that I haven't felt compelled to take that step yet.

Going with the external vs. the rubber duck should make a significant
difference in reliability. I had an external for my handheld on my old
Cessna and it performed just as well as a panel mounted radio. The
same could not be said for the rubber duck. It sometimes transmitted
well, sometimes not at all, depending on the orientation of the radio
and the receiving station.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[john smith]

RST Engineering wrote:
> As I remember, the 7AC has a metal fairing between the fuselage and the wing
> to join the fuselage, windshield, and wing. Please confirm.
>
> If this is so, I will design and send you the parts for an external antenna
> that you can mount by drilling a half inch hole in that metal fairing. In
> essence, it is a 22" brass welding rod soldered into (and hot glue filled) a
> BNC-M connector. A BNC-FF bulkhead connector is inserted into a half-inch
> hole drilled into the metal fairing just aft of the leading edge of the
> wing. A coax cable with BNC-M connectors on either end then connect the
> bulkhead connector with the radio. Simple, cheap, and effective. VSWR
> bandwidth is nothing to write home about, but it will work one hell of a lot
> better than the rubber resistor.
>
> The "ground plane" for this antenna is the metal fairing. If you want to
> make a marginally better ground plane, you can make a short jumper wire
> between the fairing and the metal fuselage tubing. Use a metal cable clamp
> to connect to the tubing and a screw-nut-crimp connector to connect to the
> fairing.

Pretty much what we did, only with a different connector and attachment.
The coax and mount cost $20.
This is what I use.
You will want to rivet a doubler plate to the fairing where you attach
the antenna base. You can then screw on the antenna and cut the whip to
the frequency you desire. The coax enters the cabin at the wing leading
edge meets the top of the windscreen. This is also where the coax is
coiled and stowed when not in use.

http://www.antenna.com/lm_cat/lmrpg37.html

Motorola Style Mounts
Model KRM66
Similar to K-66 except Motorola style mount and 14 ft (4.3 m) of
RG-58/U cable and PL-259 connector.
Model KRMX66
Similar to K-66 except Motorola style mount and 17 ft (5.2 m) of RG-58/U
for ASP-7450 and ASP-7650 series. Connector available separately.
Model KREMX66
Similar to K-66 except Motorola style mount and 17 ft (5.2 m) of
PRO-FLEX PLUS low loss cable. Connector available separately.

[john smith]

Morgans wrote:
[snip]
> I like your idea of coming in with a handheld. I can't imagine coming to
> OSH, NORDO. Beauty is, since a lot of people say they can hear OK, but
> transmitting is weak, listening is about all you have to do!
[snip]

This is my one pet peeve... the "pilots" flying "modern" aircraft behind
you will go nuts trying to stay behind you.
EAA simply has to come up with a separate procedure for radio equipped
aircraft which are not capable of flying 80 kts.
In level flight in my Champ, I MAY get 80 mph/68 kts at max power!
Just think about all those pilots you know who will be flying a plane
loaded as they have never loaded it (full, overgross, CG???) who would
try to slow down to stay behind the aircraft (Champ, Cub, Tcraft,
Luscombe, Ercoupe, etc).
How many do you think can make the right decision in a timely manner and
abort the approach and call "Go-Around" without a sharp tower/ground
observer intervening before they fall out of the sky?
Use the published procedure. Land, call, fly NORDO following the
instructions OSH tower gives you.

[Jay Honeck]

> This is my one pet peeve... the "pilots" flying "modern" aircraft behind
> you will go nuts trying to stay behind you.
> EAA simply has to come up with a separate procedure for radio equipped
> aircraft which are not capable of flying 80 kts.
> In level flight in my Champ, I MAY get 80 mph/68 kts at max power!

I agree. I've been that guy, stuck behind a Champ going 80 mph, and it's,
er, interesting.

Here it is, 95 degrees, I'm flying an at-gross, under-powered Warrior, my
head's on a swivel, I'm trying to see the stupid flashing strobes on the
ground, and DANG if I'm not stuck behind a guy going 80 mph instead of 80
knots.

And here I had always assumed that they were just mis-reading the scale on
their airspeed indicator...

;-)

Luckily, nowadays, with our Pathfinder's 235 horses, slow flight behind the
power curve is much easier and safer, no matter what we're carrying -- but
it would still be nice if the Champs could use the ultralight field approach
into OSH (or one of their own)...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kyle Boatright]

I've e-mailed both EAA/Airventure and SnF repeatedly on this topic, asking
for them to change to 70 and 110 knot approach lanes. The 70 knot approach
would be fine for the Champ/Cub/C-152/C-172 crowd, and the 110 knot approach
would work for everything else, short of corporate jets. This would keep
some poor guy in a Glasair/Lancair/Mooney/Commanche from getting stuck
behind an 80 mph airplane.

I have personal experience here, due to a Kitfox which completely blew the
join-up at SnF one year, and cut into the approach line well after line
crossed the power plant. This was bad for a couple of reasons - 1, it
created a spacing problem and 2, the Kitfox was so slow that the airplanes
it cut in front couldn't fly slow enough to get comfortable spacing.

KB


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:B%tme.19816$g66.16952@attbi_s71...
>> This is my one pet peeve... the "pilots" flying "modern" aircraft behind
>> you will go nuts trying to stay behind you.
>> EAA simply has to come up with a separate procedure for radio equipped
>> aircraft which are not capable of flying 80 kts.
>> In level flight in my Champ, I MAY get 80 mph/68 kts at max power!
>
> I agree. I've been that guy, stuck behind a Champ going 80 mph, and it's,
> er, interesting.
>
> Here it is, 95 degrees, I'm flying an at-gross, under-powered Warrior, my
> head's on a swivel, I'm trying to see the stupid flashing strobes on the
> ground, and DANG if I'm not stuck behind a guy going 80 mph instead of 80
> knots.
>
> And here I had always assumed that they were just mis-reading the scale on
> their airspeed indicator...
>
> ;-)
>
> Luckily, nowadays, with our Pathfinder's 235 horses, slow flight behind
> the power curve is much easier and safer, no matter what we're carrying --
> but it would still be nice if the Champs could use the ultralight field
> approach into OSH (or one of their own)...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[RST Engineering]

You all will wait until hell freezes over to get both EAA-OSH and SNF to
understand about very slow and very fast airplanes in the mix until you
elect a person to the board who flies these approaches every year and has
done so for the last 35 years.

Just some thoughts, y'know.

Jim



"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> I've e-mailed both EAA/Airventure and SnF repeatedly on this topic, asking
> for them to change to 70 and 110 knot approach lanes.

[Jay Honeck]

> You all will wait until hell freezes over to get both EAA-OSH and SNF to
> understand about very slow and very fast airplanes in the mix until you
> elect a person to the board who flies these approaches every year and has
> done so for the last 35 years.
>
> Just some thoughts, y'know.

Nice pic in the EAA rag this month, Jim!

You know you've got at least two votes from Iowa...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"