Seattle advice

[CJ]

Hello,

My wife and I are spending five nights in Seattle between July 4th and July
8th (leaving Saturday, July 9th). Since we're driving in on the fourth, we
basically have the 5th through the 8th as full days to explore. We have to
spend one day on the Olympic Penninsula (fond memories for my wife) and one
day at Orcas Island (long time friend for me). We'll do one day
non-aviation or maybe even cultural. That leaves us one day to do either
Museum of Flight or Arlington.

Questions.

1. Arlington or Museum of Flight? My wife REALLY wants us to build a
Murphy, but she loves seeing rag and tube aircraft, as well as aircraft with
history. We've been to the (incredibly inconsistent) Golden West show a few
times, and other than the opportunity to see Jim Wright's HB-1, have been
pretty disappointed. Is Arlington that many levels above Golden West for
homebuilders or non-military plane nuts?

2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a few
blocks east of Pikes)?

Thanks for any hints.

-cj

[Antoñio]

Why not make the "cultural day" the Museum of Flight? ;-)

Seriously, that's a hard choice. The Museum of Flight is much less
than a whole day event. I would think three hours would be more than
enough. It has some fantastic displays though that would more than
please any history buff.

Do the museum in the early morning and then on to Arlington is my
advice. Arlington is only about 45 minutes away by car and, in my
opinion, worth the trip. I go there every year.

Antonio

CJ wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My wife and I are spending five nights in Seattle between July 4th and July
> 8th (leaving Saturday, July 9th). Since we're driving in on the fourth, we
> basically have the 5th through the 8th as full days to explore. We have to
> spend one day on the Olympic Penninsula (fond memories for my wife) and one
> day at Orcas Island (long time friend for me). We'll do one day
> non-aviation or maybe even cultural. That leaves us one day to do either
> Museum of Flight or Arlington.
>
> Questions.
>
> 1. Arlington or Museum of Flight? My wife REALLY wants us to build a
> Murphy, but she loves seeing rag and tube aircraft, as well as aircraft with
> history. We've been to the (incredibly inconsistent) Golden West show a few
> times, and other than the opportunity to see Jim Wright's HB-1, have been
> pretty disappointed. Is Arlington that many levels above Golden West for
> homebuilders or non-military plane nuts?
>
> 2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
> are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a few
> blocks east of Pikes)?
>
> Thanks for any hints.
>
> -cj

[Peter Duniho]

"CJ" > wrote in message ...
> 1. Arlington or Museum of Flight?

Assuming you share your wife's interest in homebuilt aircraft, it's a
no-brainer IMHO. Forget the Museum of Flight and go to Arlington. You
could try to squeeze in the MoF as Antonio suggests, but they don't open
early and that, plus the long drive to Arlington (45 minutes on a good day,
but traffic might slow you down, especially as you get near Arlington, and
*especially* if you're arriving at the airshow late) means you'll be cutting
your time at Arlington short.

Note that the MoF is open late on the Thursday you're here (until 9pm) *and*
admission will be free. So really, what you ought to do is head over to the
MoF after dinner Thursday, and then spend all day at Arlington on Friday.
:)

> [...]
> 2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
> are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a few
> blocks east of Pikes)?

"Pikes"? Perhaps you mean "Pike Place Market"? Not sure, since the Camlin
is actually about nine blocks east of the Market, but I don't know what
other "Pikes" you might be talking about.

In any case, you will be roughly equidistant from the fireworks over Elliott
Bay and over Lake Union. Public access is better at Elliott Bay, because of
the large waterfront park there. The largest open area for viewing the Lake
Union fireworks is Gasworks Park, at the north end of the lake, on the
opposite end of the lake from where you're staying. You might be able to
find a decent viewing spot on the south end of Lake Union somewhere though.
The south end of Lake Union and Myrtle Edwards Park (for the Elliott Bay
show) are both within walking distance from the Camlin (about a mile for
either).

Some people have opinions as to whether the Elliott Bay or Lake Union
fireworks are better. They are both big shows though, and I don't think you
can go wrong with either.

Some options to consider other than walking to either spot:

* You might check with the Camlin to see what sort of viewing
opportunities are available from there. They aren't the tallest building
around, but they're a bit uphill from a lot of the rest of the city. You
can probably get a good view of the Lake Union show from the hotel, and a
partial view of the Elliott Bay show as well. If you can get a top-floor,
northwest corner unit, you're golden. :)

* Another possibility for seeing both shows at once might be Volunteer
Park on Capitol Hill. It's a little farther of a walk (maybe 1.5 miles),
but I think it should have decent views of both shows. You could probably
see both from some spots on Queen Anne Hill (just west of Lake Union), but
then you'd be between the shows, which would probably mean you'd miss the
best of each. In either case, you'll want to get there early so you have
time to scout out good spots, since those aren't the "official" viewing
locations, and so sight-lines won't be ensured without some effort on your
part.

* A quick check on Google shows that the Argosy Cruise company (the
largest local boat cruise outfit) has fireworks viewing cruises. They've
got three different cruises; if I were picking, I'd go for the "Locks and
Fireworks" cruise, since it's the longest, only costs a little more than the
shortest, and in addition to providing viewing of the Lake Union fireworks,
will take you through the Ballard Locks. Of course, I think going through
the Locks is fun...if you don't like boating, and have no interest in large
public works projects like locks, you might not find it as enjoyable.
http://www.argosycruises.com/themecruises/default.cfm
Scroll down to the July section. There are other cruise outfits around, and
they may offer similar packages.

Whatever you do, don't drive yourself to the fireworks. If walking seems
daunting, take a cab or the bus. Those resources will be in short supply as
well, but it'll be a piece of cake compared to trying to find parking before
the fireworks, and trying to get out of parking after. Walking is unlikely
to take any longer than any other form of transportation, and may well be
quicker.

Pete

[Jay Honeck]

> 1. Arlington or Museum of Flight?

CJ, I can't comment on Arlington, but we just got back from visiting Seattle
last week and can highly recommend the Museum of Flight.

Their World War I display is the best I've ever seen, and their World War II
display ain't bad, either. And, of course, seeing a Blackbird with the D-21
drone mounted is very cool, as is their new Concorde display. (Although if
you've ever seen one fly, you'll shed a tear to see it locked away in a
fenced-in area, forever flightless and silent...)

We spent six hours at the M of F (an hour in the excellent gift shop alone),
and saw everything -- but in a very cursory manner. I could easily have
spent all day, going back to actually read each display and soak up the
ambience, but for some reason they wanted to close!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[COLIN LAMB]

Hey, where are your priorities. You and your wife have come hundreds or
thousands of miles and your friend on Orcas Island should take the ferry in
and spend the day at the Museum of Flight, and then take you out to dinner
at one of the nice restaurants. You can buy him a ticket to the museum.

Hey, get a life. Stop letting friends interfere with your true love of
aviation. What good ar friends if they cannot spend it with you visiting
something to do with aviation. Even better is to find new friends who will
help build the Murphy. And, if they are not going to help, at least they
can cook you dinner while you and your wife are building. You can sit down
and talk about old times during dinner.

Colin

[Dave Burton]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:02:39 -0700, "CJ" > wrote:

>Hello,
>
>My wife and I are spending five nights in Seattle between July 4th and July
>8th (leaving Saturday, July 9th). Since we're driving in on the fourth, we
>basically have the 5th through the 8th as full days to explore. We have to
>spend one day on the Olympic Penninsula (fond memories for my wife) and one
>day at Orcas Island (long time friend for me). We'll do one day
>non-aviation or maybe even cultural. That leaves us one day to do either
>Museum of Flight or Arlington.

I guess it depends on what kind of experience you are looking for.
I've been a MOF member since it opened. Given the choice between the
two I'd hit Arlington. Murphy will be there if that is your interest,
they are even giving a seminar on Saturday (sorry, I know that doesn't
help you much).
You should be able to do both if you want. The museum will be open
Thursday night the 7th and is free that night. Your timing will be
good as that only happens once a month. Go to the museum on Thursday
night and hit Arlington on Friday.
Most of the folks there during the week are pilots, the crowds of
locals don't show up till the weekend. There will be quite a few
fly-in aircraft during the week, but the bulk of the planes don't show
up until the weekend. Friday is the best mid-week day. Not much in
the way of military aircraft with the exception of the local Warbird
EAA chapter that brings WW2 planes.
Arlington has been touted as the 3rd largest fly-in in the nation, but
it's a long way behind Sun-n-Fun. The venders tend to only be from
the west coast. Since Oshkosh follows Arlington so closely they skip
us to head there.
Seattle traffic sucks, it's almost number one in the nation, for the
worst. From your hotel the trip to the MOF during off peak traffic
times will take 10 minutes... The trip to Arlington will be a lot
longer. Going during the week will be better, both because of traffic
and crowds. On the weekend you can wait an hour in a line of cars to
get into the fly-in. I would try and miss the rush "hour" if
possible. That would be from 7- 9am, and 4-7pm. You can order
tickets in advance at nweaa.com and the show opens at 8am. The local
town also has a street fair and the airshow runs shuttles there. I've
never been.
The weather might influence your decision, you probably won't bake. I
have to say that Arlington is the coolest fly-in I've ever been to,
and I mean that literally. If it's raining you might want to go to
the museum. I fly in and camp every year and it's usually pleasant.
You should remember that July 4th is the "official" start to summer in
the NW, and even that is an optimistic date...

Have fun whatever you decide!
Dave

[Bob Gardner]

No one else addressed your question about fireworks, so I'll try to fill
that gap. There are two major displays, one over Elliot Bay and one over
Lake Union. At the Camlin, you will be better positioned to see the Elliot
Bay display. Heck, you might be able to see it from your window. Just walk
west until you can find a place with a view of the bay. Don't try to
drive...it is a madhouse after the show.

Bob Gardner

"CJ" > wrote in message ...
> Hello,
>
> My wife and I are spending five nights in Seattle between July 4th and
> July 8th (leaving Saturday, July 9th). Since we're driving in on the
> fourth, we basically have the 5th through the 8th as full days to explore.
> We have to spend one day on the Olympic Penninsula (fond memories for my
> wife) and one day at Orcas Island (long time friend for me). We'll do one
> day non-aviation or maybe even cultural. That leaves us one day to do
> either Museum of Flight or Arlington.
>
> Questions.
>
> 1. Arlington or Museum of Flight? My wife REALLY wants us to build a
> Murphy, but she loves seeing rag and tube aircraft, as well as aircraft
> with history. We've been to the (incredibly inconsistent) Golden West
> show a few times, and other than the opportunity to see Jim Wright's HB-1,
> have been pretty disappointed. Is Arlington that many levels above Golden
> West for homebuilders or non-military plane nuts?
>
> 2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
> are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a few
> blocks east of Pikes)?
>
> Thanks for any hints.
>
> -cj
>

[Drew Dalgleish]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:02:39 -0700, "CJ" > wrote:

>Hello,
>
>My wife and I are spending five nights in Seattle between July 4th and July
>8th (leaving Saturday, July 9th). Since we're driving in on the fourth, we
>basically have the 5th through the 8th as full days to explore. We have to
>spend one day on the Olympic Penninsula (fond memories for my wife) and one
>day at Orcas Island (long time friend for me). We'll do one day
>non-aviation or maybe even cultural. That leaves us one day to do either
>Museum of Flight or Arlington.
>
>Questions.
>
>1. Arlington or Museum of Flight? My wife REALLY wants us to build a
>Murphy, but she loves seeing rag and tube aircraft, as well as aircraft with
>history. We've been to the (incredibly inconsistent) Golden West show a few
>times, and other than the opportunity to see Jim Wright's HB-1, have been
>pretty disappointed. Is Arlington that many levels above Golden West for
>homebuilders or non-military plane nuts?
>
>2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
>are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a few
>blocks east of Pikes)?
>
>Thanks for any hints.
>
>-cj
>
>
If your wife wants to build a murphy you should encourage her by
driving up to chillawack for a factory tour. Only about 2-3hrs each
way.

[Milen Lazarov]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Pikes"? Perhaps you mean "Pike Place Market"? Not sure, since the Camlin
> is actually about nine blocks east of the Market, but I don't know what
> other "Pikes" you might be talking about.
>

Pike street, most likely. Camlin is a block or two away from it.

>

[plasticguy]

OK Boys and girls.... Everybody forgot to tell hin there are
2 museum of flight locations. The museum proper and the
Paine Field Restoration Center. The museum is outstanding
and the restoration facility is a completely different animal.
It is a cross between an aviation junkstore and a workshop.
There are planes everywhere in all states of restoration from
ready to display to complete rustbuckets. WAY COOL. I
used to hang out there a lot, call ahead and see if the guys are
working on stuff and they will let you in to poke around until
your head screams.......

Arlington is a good bet, but going to Chilliwak to the Murphy
factory is better if you better half wants to build one. If you
head North on the 5, there is NO BETTER BURGER JOINT
then THE ALGER BAR AND GRILL. I dare you to order an
Ooie Gooey. Cheeseburger with a sausage patty, bacon, a fried
egg and other stuff guaranteed to peg your cholesterol meter for a week.
Yeah I'm in Texas and I still miss it. If you enter Canada and go
to Vancouver BC on the way to Chilliwack, DO STOP at Granville Island,
Lots of neat stuff to do/see/eat. Glassblowers, wood kayak shop,
jewelry, chlothes, model boats. It is a many hour walk to do it justice.
If you hit the Museum of Flight on thursday evening, I'd go straight up
north
and skip Arlington.

Scott.Correa.

[Peter Duniho]

"Milen Lazarov" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Pike street, most likely. Camlin is a block or two away from it.

Pike Street runs east/west. It doesn't make sense to say you are any
distance east of it. There is also only one Pike Street. "Pikes" doesn't
make sense when referring to that street.

Pete

[Bob Gardner]

http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/area_maps/seattle_cbd.html

Forget what I said about walking west. The Camlin is within the ride-free
area of Metro Transit. Just catch a bus or trolley (whichever runs on Pine
Street) down to the waterfront and back.

The Camlin used to have a roof garden, and had the Cloud Room on the 11th
floor. The Cloud Room shut down...don't know about the roof garden. Google
doesn't help.

Bob Gardner

"CJ" > wrote in message ...
> Hello,
>
> My wife and I are spending five nights in Seattle between July 4th and
> July 8th (leaving Saturday, July 9th). Since we're driving in on the
> fourth, we basically have the 5th through the 8th as full days to explore.
> We have to spend one day on the Olympic Penninsula (fond memories for my
> wife) and one day at Orcas Island (long time friend for me). We'll do one
> day non-aviation or maybe even cultural. That leaves us one day to do
> either Museum of Flight or Arlington.
>
> Questions.
>
> 1. Arlington or Museum of Flight? My wife REALLY wants us to build a
> Murphy, but she loves seeing rag and tube aircraft, as well as aircraft
> with history. We've been to the (incredibly inconsistent) Golden West
> show a few times, and other than the opportunity to see Jim Wright's HB-1,
> have been pretty disappointed. Is Arlington that many levels above Golden
> West for homebuilders or non-military plane nuts?
>
> 2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
> are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a few
> blocks east of Pikes)?
>
> Thanks for any hints.
>
> -cj
>

[CJ]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "CJ" > wrote in message ...
>> 2. (Off topic - Larry, start bitching) - Fourth of July. What and where
>> are the fireworks opportunities for us (we're styaing at the Camlin, a
>> few blocks east of Pikes)?
>
> "Pikes"? Perhaps you mean "Pike Place Market"? Not sure, since the
> Camlin is actually about nine blocks east of the Market, but I don't know
> what other "Pikes" you might be talking about.> Pete
Yes, Pike Place Market. Only been there once over 20 years ago and
mis-remembered "Pike" as being plural or possessive. I guess for someone
familiar with Seattle it is a faux pas comparable to when I hear people
mispronounce "Nevada".

-CJ

[CJ]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I think we'll take advantage of the Museum of Flight being open late on
Thursday, and either follow the repeated advice to go to Arlington on Friday
or perhaps do an all aircraft day on Thursday - weather may influence as
well as logistics.

Chilliwack will have to wait for another trip. We're slowly wrapping up a
one weekend at a time remodel and a new project is a ways away, so going to
the factory may be too much of a tease. And, with one day to the Olympic
Penninsula and another to the San Juan Islands - Colin's advice to get new
friends noted - I am looking forward to leaving the car in the garage one
day and taking advantage of public transportation.

Bob, thanks for the fireworks info. I think we'll take advantage of the
free transit and head west. FYI, the Cloud Room is available for use by
guests as a recreation / sitting room - the piano is now in the lobby.

-CJ

[StellaStarr]

CJ wrote:
> "Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"CJ" > wrote in message ...
>>
I guess for someone
> familiar with Seattle it is a faux pas comparable to when I hear people
> mispronounce "Nevada".
>

In Iowa, that'd be ne-VAY'-duh.
About 30 miles northeast of Madrid (MADD'-ridd)

The other day I heard someone on a radio game show mention the character
of YOE'-se-myte Sam. How I thought yosemite was pronounced when I read
it in comics...

[dancingstarcreations]

CJ wrote:
> Thanks for all the helpful replies.
>
> I think we'll....


Make sure we get "Trip Following" with your impressions of the city that
many here are quite proud of. Have a wonderful time!

Antonio

[CJ]

"StellaStarr" > wrote in message
news:YSPme.21320$IC6.15683@attbi_s72...
> CJ wrote:
>> "Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"CJ" > wrote in message
...
>>>
> I guess for someone
>> familiar with Seattle it is a faux pas comparable to when I hear people
>> mispronounce "Nevada".
>>
>
> In Iowa, that'd be ne-VAY'-duh.
> About 30 miles northeast of Madrid (MADD'-ridd)
>
> The other day I heard someone on a radio game show mention the character
> of YOE'-se-myte Sam. How I thought yosemite was pronounced when I read it
> in comics...

My mother was born in the German part of Switzerland and a young adult in
the French part. Teaching her how to pronounce Tuolumne (a part of Yosemite
and a California county) was a chore. I finally told her to say "to all of
me" and leave off the "f".

-CJ

[Robert Bonomi]

In article <YSPme.21320$IC6.15683@attbi_s72>,
StellaStarr > wrote:
>CJ wrote:
>> "Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"CJ" > wrote in message ...
>>>
> I guess for someone
>> familiar with Seattle it is a faux pas comparable to when I hear people
>> mispronounce "Nevada".
>>
>
>In Iowa, that'd be ne-VAY'-duh.
>About 30 miles northeast of Madrid (MADD'-ridd)
>

Even more fun, there is the Arkansas River. Which is *NOT* pronounced like
the similarly-named State.

And pity the person who has to deal with both
Des Moines, Iowa and
Des Plaines, Illinois

Let alone "Mar-SAILS" Illinois.

[Jay Honeck]

> And pity the person who has to deal with both
> Des Moines, Iowa and
> Des Plaines, Illinois
>
> Let alone "Mar-SAILS" Illinois.

Don't forget Cairo (Kay-row), IL.

Of course, some cities are schizophrenic, even amongst their own townsfolk.

Keokuk, Iowa is pronounced "KE-o-kuk" by half the population, and "Ke-O-kuk"
by the other half. It's interesting to listen to their Unicom, and see how
each pilot pronounces it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rich S.]

We sometimes spend a RON in "Peer", South Dakota on the way to Oshkosh.

Rich S.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:4rYme.22925$g66.19673@attbi_s71...
>> And pity the person who has to deal with both
>> Des Moines, Iowa and
>> Des Plaines, Illinois
>>
>> Let alone "Mar-SAILS" Illinois.
>
> Don't forget Cairo (Kay-row), IL.
>
> Of course, some cities are schizophrenic, even amongst their own
> townsfolk.
>
> Keokuk, Iowa is pronounced "KE-o-kuk" by half the population, and
> "Ke-O-kuk" by the other half. It's interesting to listen to their
> Unicom, and see how each pilot pronounces it.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Robert Bonomi]

In article <4rYme.22925$g66.19673@attbi_s71>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> And pity the person who has to deal with both
>> Des Moines, Iowa and
>> Des Plaines, Illinois
>>
>> Let alone "Mar-SAILS" Illinois.
>
>Don't forget Cairo (Kay-row), IL.
>
>Of course, some cities are schizophrenic, even amongst their own townsfolk.
>
>Keokuk, Iowa is pronounced "KE-o-kuk" by half the population, and "Ke-O-kuk"
>by the other half. It's interesting to listen to their Unicom, and see how
>each pilot pronounces it.

While we're at it, as Osceola, Iowa to the list. Particuarly confusing to
Floridians, and others who are familiar with the Seminole Indian chief by
that name.

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert Bonomi" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> And pity the person who has to deal with both
> Des Moines, Iowa and
> Des Plaines, Illinois

Or Des Moines, Washington for that matter.

Buena Vista, Virginia is another that always bugged me.

My guess is that the "mis-pronounced" and "differently pronounced" place
names in the US number in the thousands, possibly the tens of thousands.

Pete

[CJ]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> Or Des Moines, Washington for that matter.
>
> Buena Vista, Virginia is another that always bugged me.
>
> My guess is that the "mis-pronounced" and "differently pronounced" place
> names in the US number in the thousands, possibly the tens of thousands.
>
> Pete

Even my "Nevada" comment presumes the way most of us who live here (or know
the Sierra Nevada) pronounce it. The correct Spanish pronunciation is
another thing entirely.

-CJ

[John Ammeter]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:51:29 -0500, "plasticguy"
> wrote:

>
>OK Boys and girls.... Everybody forgot to tell hin there are
>2 museum of flight locations. The museum proper and the
>Paine Field Restoration Center. The museum is outstanding
>and the restoration facility is a completely different animal.
>It is a cross between an aviation junkstore and a workshop.
>There are planes everywhere in all states of restoration from
>ready to display to complete rustbuckets. WAY COOL. I
>used to hang out there a lot, call ahead and see if the guys are
>working on stuff and they will let you in to poke around until
>your head screams.......
>
>Arlington is a good bet, but going to Chilliwak to the Murphy
>factory is better if you better half wants to build one. If you
>head North on the 5, there is NO BETTER BURGER JOINT
>then THE ALGER BAR AND GRILL. I dare you to order an
>Ooie Gooey. Cheeseburger with a sausage patty, bacon, a fried
>egg and other stuff guaranteed to peg your cholesterol meter for a week.
>Yeah I'm in Texas and I still miss it. If you enter Canada and go
>to Vancouver BC on the way to Chilliwack, DO STOP at Granville Island,
>Lots of neat stuff to do/see/eat. Glassblowers, wood kayak shop,
>jewelry, chlothes, model boats. It is a many hour walk to do it justice.
>If you hit the Museum of Flight on thursday evening, I'd go straight up
>north
>and skip Arlington.
>
>Scott.Correa.
>

One thing you might want to keep in mind...

If you visit the factory in Canada, you'll need a passport
or birth certificate to re-enter the USA.


John