Log Book - Yawn!

[Jeff Bures]

Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.

I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.

I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings.. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.

I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.

I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.

Layout:
Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
Page 6 - Notes
Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log

Questions:
Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk

Thanks!

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
> Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.
>
> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>
> I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
>
> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>
> I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
>
> Layout:
> Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
> Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
> Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
> Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
> Page 6 - Notes
> Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
>
> Questions:
> Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
> Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
>
> Thanks!

I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
computer to display/print, search, etc.

I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Ramy[_2_]]

The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?

Ramy

On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
> > Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.
> >
> > I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year.. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> >
> > I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
> >
> > I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year.. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> >
> > I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
> >
> > Layout:
> > Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
> > Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
> > Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
> > Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
> > Page 6 - Notes
> > Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
> >
> > Questions:
> > Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
> > Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
> >
> > Thanks!
> I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
> flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
> The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
> computer to display/print, search, etc.
>
> I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[[email protected]]

On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 11:55:40 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?
>
> Ramy
> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
> > > Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors.. Yuck.
> > >
> > > I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> > >
> > > I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
> > >
> > > I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> > >
> > > I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
> > >
> > > Layout:
> > > Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
> > > Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
> > > Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
> > > Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
> > > Page 6 - Notes
> > > Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > > Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
> > > Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
> > flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
> > The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
> > computer to display/print, search, etc.
> >
> > I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
> >
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
I started using crosscountry.aero earlier this year, I like it a lot.

[Tony[_7_]]

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 6:49:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 11:55:40 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> > The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?
> >
> > Ramy
> > On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
> > > > Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> > > >
> > > > I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> > > >
> > > > I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
> > > >
> > > > Layout:
> > > > Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
> > > > Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
> > > > Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
> > > > Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
> > > > Page 6 - Notes
> > > > Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
> > > >
> > > > Questions:
> > > > Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
> > > > Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
> > > flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
> > > The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
> > > computer to display/print, search, etc.
> > >
> > > I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> I started using crosscountry.aero earlier this year, I like it a lot.
Hey Jeff, thanks for looking into this, I have certainly been disappointed with SSA offerings but never spoke up. My main gripes with both the soft- and hard-covered versions are that their pages are bound poorly - out of line from left page to right and also the left-hand is bound too deep and you can't use it's right-hand column properly. Haven't bought a new book in almost 20 years, don't know if the latest ones are better. Also they've no line for page totals which makes the adding up awkward.

[Dan Marotta]

I've been using a spread sheet for over 10 years and it holds everything
that I want and nothing that some designer wants me to have. It does
not have a pretty colored cover and no pages for a so called "cheat
sheet" since I don't carry a log book with me.

Oh, and I'm not from part of the "sensible world".

Dan
5J

On 5/7/21 9:42 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
>> Hi all.Â* Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring
>> log books.Â* I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per
>> page, and tiny little spaces to write details.Â* The print is so small
>> I can barely read most it.Â* Forget trying to read the notes and
>> signatures of my instructors.Â* Yuck.
>>
>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a
>> year.Â* A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>>
>> I love my SCUBA log book.Â* I can do planning, keep track of my
>> equipment,Â* weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and
>> interesting happenings.Â* Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the
>> fun.Â* It's time our log books become part of the experience.
>>
>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a
>> year.Â* A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>>
>> I'm designing a new log book interior.Â* I plan to have different
>> attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone.
>> Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world).
>> Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add
>> additional features.
>>
>> Layout:
>> Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
>> Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
>> Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
>> Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club
>> pilots)
>> Page 6 - Notes
>> Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
>>
>> Questions:
>> Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides,
>> popular frequencies, etc.?
>> Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered
> (including a flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style"
> formats, and searched. The entries should be easy to do on a smart
> phone, though I'd probably use a computer to display/print, search, etc.
>
> I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
>

[Dan Marotta]

Good point, Ramy. Skysight.io provides a flight log, created from your
igc files, and it's open source (read free). Give it a try.

Dan
5J

On 5/7/21 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
> The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?
>
> Ramy
>
> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
>>> Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.
>>>
>>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>>>
>>> I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
>>>
>>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>>>
>>> I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
>>>
>>> Layout:
>>> Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
>>> Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
>>> Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
>>> Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
>>> Page 6 - Notes
>>> Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>> Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
>>> Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>> I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
>> flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
>> The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
>> computer to display/print, search, etc.
>>
>> I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
>>
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Ramy[_2_]]

I’ve been using skysight for forecasts but wasn’t aware of any logbook functionality. Cant find it.
OLC has a basic flight book you can download as PDF but has only some of the required log book functionality. I was hoping Weglide will provide logbook but can’t find this functionality there either. This really puzzles me that we still don’t have a good popular electronic solution for logbook. Entering the details of my flights (number, date, site, takeoff, landing, duration, altitude, distance, route, task, running totals) by hand or typing it in after every flight is daunting and outdated. It’s all available in the igc files and can be extracted from there in a logbook format which you can then print and put it in a binder.

Ramy

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:48:52 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Good point, Ramy. Skysight.io provides a flight log, created from your
> igc files, and it's open source (read free). Give it a try.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 5/7/21 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
> > The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
> >>> Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors.. Yuck.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> >>>
> >>> I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> >>>
> >>> I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
> >>>
> >>> Layout:
> >>> Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
> >>> Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
> >>> Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
> >>> Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
> >>> Page 6 - Notes
> >>> Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
> >>> Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >> I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
> >> flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
> >> The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
> >> computer to display/print, search, etc.
> >>
> >> I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Jeff Bures]

For SCUBA I use my the paper log book for planning and recording details on-site before/after my dive. It is the 'permanent log' that I keep. At the end of my day or week, I upload my dive data (similar to IGC file from dive computer) to my digital log book and fill in details and notes. They both co-exist nicely together.

I was always under the impression that our paper log book was a 'legal document', containing necessary and required information.

I ask all this out of curiosity:

Do people not keep paper flight logs anymore?
What about students? Don't they need to record training notes, solo endorsements, etc?
What about a legal record of flight hours (in type, model, location, etc)? Do insurance companies, FAA, and commercial operations just trust us? They never say 'show me your log book'?
What about proof of BFR and other endorsements (like motorglider)?
Is IGC flight logging ubiquitous? Or just among rec.aviation.soaring participants?

Anyway, back to my original question. If you were to have a paper log book, what other pages might it include? What details on the 'flight log page' have I forgotten or be handy to add?

[Ramy[_2_]]

Jeff,

I keep 3 versions of the same electronic logbook:
1- Online, where I can also view the flight trace for further analysis
2- on my computer in an exported spreadsheet and pdf formats
3- in print from the exported PDF files.

I assume the print version is legal as long as it contains data like dates and number of flights and hours.

I also keep a traditional paper logbook just for things like BFR and endorsements.

Ramy


On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 10:52:27 AM UTC-7, Jeff Bures wrote:
> For SCUBA I use my the paper log book for planning and recording details on-site before/after my dive. It is the 'permanent log' that I keep. At the end of my day or week, I upload my dive data (similar to IGC file from dive computer) to my digital log book and fill in details and notes. They both co-exist nicely together.
>
> I was always under the impression that our paper log book was a 'legal document', containing necessary and required information.
>
> I ask all this out of curiosity:
>
> Do people not keep paper flight logs anymore?
> What about students? Don't they need to record training notes, solo endorsements, etc?
> What about a legal record of flight hours (in type, model, location, etc)? Do insurance companies, FAA, and commercial operations just trust us? They never say 'show me your log book'?
> What about proof of BFR and other endorsements (like motorglider)?
> Is IGC flight logging ubiquitous? Or just among rec.aviation.soaring participants?
>
> Anyway, back to my original question. If you were to have a paper log book, what other pages might it include? What details on the 'flight log page' have I forgotten or be handy to add?

[Dan Marotta]

Oops, sorry!

That should have been skylines.aero.

Dan
5J

On 5/8/21 11:48 AM, Ramy wrote:
>
> I’ve been using skysight for forecasts but wasn’t aware of any logbook functionality. Cant find it.
> OLC has a basic flight book you can download as PDF but has only some of the required log book functionality. I was hoping Weglide will provide logbook but can’t find this functionality there either. This really puzzles me that we still don’t have a good popular electronic solution for logbook. Entering the details of my flights (number, date, site, takeoff, landing, duration, altitude, distance, route, task, running totals) by hand or typing it in after every flight is daunting and outdated. It’s all available in the igc files and can be extracted from there in a logbook format which you can then print and put it in a binder.
>
> Ramy
>
> On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:48:52 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Good point, Ramy. Skysight.io provides a flight log, created from your
>> igc files, and it's open source (read free). Give it a try.
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>> On 5/7/21 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
>>> The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?
>>>
>>> Ramy
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
>>>>> Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
>>>>>
>>>>> Layout:
>>>>> Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
>>>>> Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
>>>>> Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
>>>>> Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
>>>>> Page 6 - Notes
>>>>> Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
>>>>>
>>>>> Questions:
>>>>> Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
>>>>> Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>> I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
>>>> flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
>>>> The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
>>>> computer to display/print, search, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>>>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Tony[_7_]]

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 2:40:34 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oops, sorry!
>
> That should have been skylines.aero.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 5/8/21 11:48 AM, Ramy wrote:
> >
> > I’ve been using skysight for forecasts but wasn’t aware of any logbook functionality. Cant find it.
> > OLC has a basic flight book you can download as PDF but has only some of the required log book functionality. I was hoping Weglide will provide logbook but can’t find this functionality there either. This really puzzles me that we still don’t have a good popular electronic solution for logbook. Entering the details of my flights (number, date, site, takeoff, landing, duration, altitude, distance, route, task, running totals) by hand or typing it in after every flight is daunting and outdated. It’s all available in the igc files and can be extracted from there in a logbook format which you can then print and put it in a binder.
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:48:52 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> Good point, Ramy. Skysight.io provides a flight log, created from your
> >> igc files, and it's open source (read free). Give it a try.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >> 5J
> >> On 5/7/21 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
> >>> The ideal electronic logbook will not require entering any data except IGC file and comments, and will automatically generate all the data normally tracked in log book plus data of interest to cross country pilots. The closest one is crosscountry.aero logbook (requires subscription) but I am afraid it will not be around for long due to lack of participants. I’ve been using it for nearly 10 years. Perhaps weglide will provide the same capability?
> >>>
> >>> Ramy
> >>>
> >>> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >>>> On 5/7/2021 7:45 PM, Jeff Bures wrote:
> >>>>> Hi all. Over the years I've always been disappointed by my soaring log books. I have the standard SSA long/skinny with 10 flights per page, and tiny little spaces to write details. The print is so small I can barely read most it. Forget trying to read the notes and signatures of my instructors. Yuck.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I love my SCUBA log book. I can do planning, keep track of my equipment, weight choices, weather, dive buddies, locations and interesting happenings. Filling out my SCUBA log book was part of the fun. It's time our log books become part of the experience.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not a professional pilot, and I don't fly thousands of hours a year. A compact log book that holds 400 flights is totally unnecessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm designing a new log book interior. I plan to have different attractive covers, and will have them available to everyone. Currently the design is 6" x 9" (15cm x 23cm for the sensible world). Right now, I'm using a very large font, so there is room to add additional features.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Layout:
> >>>>> Page 1 - Contact and Emergency Information, home field or club info
> >>>>> Page 2 - Ratings and FAI awards
> >>>>> Pages 3 & 4 - Endorsements
> >>>>> Page 5 - Cheat sheet with speeds and notes for different models (club pilots)
> >>>>> Page 6 - Notes
> >>>>> Pages 7 through 156 - 150 flight log
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Questions:
> >>>>> Are there other pages I should add, such as quick reference guides, popular frequencies, etc.?
> >>>>> Feedback on the flight log page? https://flic.kr/p/2kXipYk
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>> I'd prefer an electronic one where the data can be easily entered (including a
> >>>> flight log), displayed/printed in several "logbook style" formats, and searched.
> >>>> The entries should be easy to do on a smart phone, though I'd probably use a
> >>>> computer to display/print, search, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think there may be logbook programs that do this. Have looked for them?
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Eric Greenwell - USA
> >>>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Electronic logbooks are all you need - heck even aircraft records can be all-electronic now. But there is no digital nedia format that is 100 % safe from corruption over time. Print a page occasionally as another backup. I can't be bothered with digital everything, it's a major turnoff to my soaring involvement. But I am not an example of the potential growth market.

[John Foster]

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 11:52:27 AM UTC-6, Jeff Bures wrote:
> For SCUBA I use my the paper log book for planning and recording details on-site before/after my dive. It is the 'permanent log' that I keep. At the end of my day or week, I upload my dive data (similar to IGC file from dive computer) to my digital log book and fill in details and notes. They both co-exist nicely together.
>
> I was always under the impression that our paper log book was a 'legal document', containing necessary and required information.
>
> I ask all this out of curiosity:
>
> Do people not keep paper flight logs anymore?
> What about students? Don't they need to record training notes, solo endorsements, etc?
> What about a legal record of flight hours (in type, model, location, etc)? Do insurance companies, FAA, and commercial operations just trust us? They never say 'show me your log book'?
> What about proof of BFR and other endorsements (like motorglider)?
> Is IGC flight logging ubiquitous? Or just among rec.aviation.soaring participants?
>
> Anyway, back to my original question. If you were to have a paper log book, what other pages might it include? What details on the 'flight log page' have I forgotten or be handy to add?

One of the thinks I've considered doing is to write important numbers/info on the front inside cover of my SSA log book, like important speed numbers for the different gliders I fly:

SGS 2-33 stall speed single place, best L/D single place, Vne
stall speed double place, best L/D double place
Grob 103 stall speed single place, best L/D single place, Vne
stall speed double place, best L/D double place
etc.

If you had a page that had something like that, I'd use it. Nice to have a quick reference you can look at before flying, without having to go through the POH to find and look it up each time you fly a different glider. This obviously would be more handy for those flying in a club environment where they weren't always flying their own glider all the time, but multiple different gliders.

[Jeff Bures]

On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 1:10:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 11:52:27 AM UTC-6, Jeff Bures wrote:
> > For SCUBA I use my the paper log book for planning and recording details on-site before/after my dive. It is the 'permanent log' that I keep. At the end of my day or week, I upload my dive data (similar to IGC file from dive computer) to my digital log book and fill in details and notes. They both co-exist nicely together.
> >
> > I was always under the impression that our paper log book was a 'legal document', containing necessary and required information.
> >
> > I ask all this out of curiosity:
> >
> > Do people not keep paper flight logs anymore?
> > What about students? Don't they need to record training notes, solo endorsements, etc?
> > What about a legal record of flight hours (in type, model, location, etc)? Do insurance companies, FAA, and commercial operations just trust us? They never say 'show me your log book'?
> > What about proof of BFR and other endorsements (like motorglider)?
> > Is IGC flight logging ubiquitous? Or just among rec.aviation.soaring participants?
> >
> > Anyway, back to my original question. If you were to have a paper log book, what other pages might it include? What details on the 'flight log page' have I forgotten or be handy to add?
> One of the thinks I've considered doing is to write important numbers/info on the front inside cover of my SSA log book, like important speed numbers for the different gliders I fly:
>
> SGS 2-33 stall speed single place, best L/D single place, Vne
> stall speed double place, best L/D double place
> Grob 103 stall speed single place, best L/D single place, Vne
> stall speed double place, best L/D double place
> etc.
>
> If you had a page that had something like that, I'd use it. Nice to have a quick reference you can look at before flying, without having to go through the POH to find and look it up each time you fly a different glider. This obviously would be more handy for those flying in a club environment where they weren't always flying their own glider all the time, but multiple different gliders.

Hi John,

I used to do the same thing! Thanks for the suggestion.

I had already added a blank table with columns for airplane make/model, best L/D & speed, min sink rate & speed, stall speed, and tow speed. I didn't include Vne, not thinking that it changed with gross weight (number of occupants).

Version 1.0 is already released and should be online for sale soon! For V1..1, I'll see if there is space to add Vne to the table. I can incorporate and any other suggestions at that time.

Cheers!

OH! As a side note. If anyone wants to donate pictures or request special content, I can easily make multiple cover versions. "Dogbert Soaring Club of Elbonia" is totally doable, we just have to copyright permission. No minimum order necessary. No commitment.

[jp]

On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 12:54:42 PM UTC-7, Jeff Bures wrote:
> On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 1:10:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 11:52:27 AM UTC-6, Jeff Bures wrote:
> > > For SCUBA I use my the paper log book for planning and recording details on-site before/after my dive. It is the 'permanent log' that I keep. At the end of my day or week, I upload my dive data (similar to IGC file from dive computer) to my digital log book and fill in details and notes. They both co-exist nicely together.
> > >
> > > I was always under the impression that our paper log book was a 'legal document', containing necessary and required information.
> > >
> > > I ask all this out of curiosity:
> > >
> > > Do people not keep paper flight logs anymore?
> > > What about students? Don't they need to record training notes, solo endorsements, etc?
> > > What about a legal record of flight hours (in type, model, location, etc)? Do insurance companies, FAA, and commercial operations just trust us? They never say 'show me your log book'?
> > > What about proof of BFR and other endorsements (like motorglider)?
> > > Is IGC flight logging ubiquitous? Or just among rec.aviation.soaring participants?
> > >
> > > Anyway, back to my original question. If you were to have a paper log book, what other pages might it include? What details on the 'flight log page' have I forgotten or be handy to add?
> > One of the thinks I've considered doing is to write important numbers/info on the front inside cover of my SSA log book, like important speed numbers for the different gliders I fly:
> >
> > SGS 2-33 stall speed single place, best L/D single place, Vne
> > stall speed double place, best L/D double place
> > Grob 103 stall speed single place, best L/D single place, Vne
> > stall speed double place, best L/D double place
> > etc.
> >
> > If you had a page that had something like that, I'd use it. Nice to have a quick reference you can look at before flying, without having to go through the POH to find and look it up each time you fly a different glider. This obviously would be more handy for those flying in a club environment where they weren't always flying their own glider all the time, but multiple different gliders.
> Hi John,
>
> I used to do the same thing! Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> I had already added a blank table with columns for airplane make/model, best L/D & speed, min sink rate & speed, stall speed, and tow speed. I didn't include Vne, not thinking that it changed with gross weight (number of occupants).
>
> Version 1.0 is already released and should be online for sale soon! For V1.1, I'll see if there is space to add Vne to the table. I can incorporate and any other suggestions at that time.
>
> Cheers!
>
> OH! As a side note. If anyone wants to donate pictures or request special content, I can easily make multiple cover versions. "Dogbert Soaring Club of Elbonia" is totally doable, we just have to copyright permission. No minimum order necessary. No commitment.

I fly several different gliders and their "numbers" differ of course. I find the most difficult to remember are the numbers that differ just a bit.

I don't take my logbook to the airfield - I lose things too easily. Instead I have made pocket-sized info cards for the gliders and have laminated them at Kinko's. They are easy to take out of my shirt pocket for a glance.