OSH for the uninitiated...

[Jay Honeck]

With just 7 weeks till the Big One in Oshkosh, WI (Gawd -- it's just
like waiting for Christmas when you're a little kid!), it dawned on me
that some of you guys and gals may not be familiar with the OSH
experience.

Well, start here for a view of the 2003 fly-in:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/oshkosh_2003.htm

And see this one, too:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/rogue's_gallery_i_-_p.htm#OSHKOSH

Go here for a completely different view of OSH in the off-season:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/oshkosh_in_winter_2004.htm

And end up here for a view of last year's fly-in:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/2004_oshkosh_airventure.htm

Enjoy!

Mary and I will be spending the last week of July with our butts
planted firmly in the North 40 camping area -- for the 23rd consecutive
summer -- so if you're wondering about something or 'nother at Oshkosh,
we've probably already figgered it out.

Blue skies!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John T]

In my chapters newsletter, I put out a call for articles about attending
Oshkosh. Not the usual "good shoes and plenty of water" things, but
things like best on and off site places to eat, places to buy sovieners
(sp), off site attractions, etc.

Anyone have something like that to post here?

John

[Margy]

John T wrote:
> In my chapters newsletter, I put out a call for articles about attending
> Oshkosh. Not the usual "good shoes and plenty of water" things, but
> things like best on and off site places to eat, places to buy sovieners
> (sp), off site attractions, etc.
>
> Anyone have something like that to post here?
>
> John
>
Wentz (sp) on the lake
Fox River Brewery (outside with music and the drawbridge)
The place in Mort De Butte (white house?) long drive

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> With just 7 weeks till the Big One in Oshkosh, WI (Gawd -- it's just
> like waiting for Christmas when you're a little kid!)

7 weeks? That's...like...less than two months...very cool! Yes Jay, it
is like a kid waiting for Christmas...maybe worse this year for me since
it's my first time flying in as an owner and the second fly-in for me
this year. Man, who'd have thought that an FBO meltdown a year ago
would have put me in this spot?

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> In my chapters newsletter, I put out a call for articles about attending
> Oshkosh. Not the usual "good shoes and plenty of water" things, but
> things like best on and off site places to eat, places to buy sovieners
> (sp), off site attractions, etc.
>
> Anyone have something like that to post here?

Hoo, boy. You've opened up a big can of opinionated worms here!

But let me start:

* Best Sandwich off-field: Friar Tuck's (just north of the North 40)
* Best Breakfast: LeSure's Restaurant (just northeast of Friar Tuck's)
* Best Bar: Charcoal Pit's patio overlooking North 40.
* Best Breakfast Place for Meeting Aviation Celebrities: Hilton. (I've
run into Bob Hoover, Chuck Yeager, Baron Hilton, and a host of less
illustrious luminaries while standing in line waiting for rubber
eggs...)
* Best food on the grounds: The Friday Fish Fry at the Seaplane Base
(okay, I know that's cheating a bit!)
* Best place to find reasonably priced souvenirs: Fly Market
* Best place to find free souvenirs: NASA pavillion
* Least known great deal on the grounds: The Canon tent will LEND YOU a
zillion dollar camera and lenses for use at Airventure! All you need
is a driver's license and a credit card, which they only charge if you
don't return the camera!
* Best forum: This group's very own Jim Weir and Gail Allinson (Jim's
wife) put together a "Best of Show" forum at every OSH. It saves you a
TON of time, and I usually even agree with Jim's choices! (And I
ALWAYS agree with Gail's... ;-)
* Best airshow: Alongside the southern edge of Rwy 27 in the North 40
campground, watching arrivals/departures every afternoon after the
"real" airshow...
* Off-site Attractions: Why would you EVER leave the grounds for
anything but food and drink? There are 80,000 things to do on the
grounds, and one never has time to do them all.
* Best party: The Rec.Aviation party at our campsite on Wednesday
night after the airshow!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Man, who'd have thought that an FBO meltdown a year ago would have put me
> in this spot?

It's called "terminal indebtedness"....

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

1. The dorms at the University of Oshkosh (for those that don't like to
camp in thunderstorm country). Best room rate in town, and I've never known
anybody to be turned away, reservation or not. No air conditioning in the
rooms and dorm style showers and potties, but the all-you-can-eat food means
you only have to really eat once a day. If you take the dollar shuttle bus
from the field back to the dorms at noon, the food is about half-price the
dinner tab and it is still all you can eat.

2. The free shuttle bus to Copps Department Store. Upscale K-mart with a
good food store attached. Perhaps not as well priced as K-Mart, but not a
gouge either. Shuttle bus runs about once every half hour. THere is a
Chinese place about two blocks (?) down from Copps that is arguably the best
Chinese I've ever had. It, too, is a buffet all you can eat for very little
money.

3. The free shuttle bus to the discount mall across the freeway. Not all
of our SOs yearn to spend 24/7 looking at fast glass and smooth aluminum.

I know there is more; I just don't remember it until I get there.

Jim

(33rd year at the show; 30th straight year for a forum.)



"John T" > wrote in message
...
> In my chapters newsletter, I put out a call for articles about attending
> Oshkosh.
> Anyone have something like that to post here?
>
> John
>

[RST Engineering]

Are we still thinking about a convoy? Jay's party is Saturday and we will
be leaving Grass Valley early on Friday (or perhaps even Thursday if the
weather looks crappy.)

We generally shoot for Morgan County UT for the first stop and Alliance NE
for the night. Next day is pretty much a piece of cake into Iowa City with
one gas stop.

What sort of TAS do you get out of that rascal at 10.5 or so?

Jim


> 7 weeks? That's...like...less than two months...very cool! Yes Jay, it
> is like a kid waiting for Christmas...maybe worse this year for me since
> it's my first time flying in as an owner and the second fly-in for me this
> year. Man, who'd have thought that an FBO meltdown a year ago would have
> put me in this spot?
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-IA Student
> Arrow N2104T

[RST Engineering]

[blush]

BTW, I'm giving the dress rehearsal of that technical forum this afternoon
at 2 at Marysville (Golden West EAA Fly-In) for anybody that can make it.

jw



> * Best forum: This group's very own Jim Weir and Gail Allinson (Jim's
> wife) put together a "Best of Show" forum at every OSH. It saves you a
> TON of time, and I usually even agree with Jim's choices! (And I
> ALWAYS agree with Gail's... ;-)

[Morgans]

"RST Engineering" > wrote

> 2. The free shuttle bus to Copps Department Store. Shuttle bus runs
> about once every half hour.

> 3. The free shuttle bus to the discount mall across the freeway.

Where do you pick up the shuttle buses, the main entrance?
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

The municipal bus to the dorms, the bus to the museum, the bus to the
seaplane base, and the bus(es) to the shopping malls all come to "bus stop
central", just outside the main gates. There is a huge (for lack of a
better word) pylon with words on it "bus stop central" or somesuch.

Just look for dozens of school buses all headed to the same point.

Jim



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Where do you pick up the shuttle buses, the main entrance?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Morgans]

"RST Engineering" > wrote

> just outside the main gates. There is a huge (for lack of a
> better word) pylon with words on it "bus stop central" or somesuch.
>

That's what I thought. Thanks!
--
Jim in NC

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
[snip]
> 1. The dorms at the University of Oshkosh (for those that don't like to
> camp in thunderstorm country). Best room rate in town, and I've never
> known anybody to be turned away, reservation or not. No air conditioning
> in the rooms and dorm style showers and potties, but the all-you-can-eat
> food means you only have to really eat once a day. If you take the dollar
> shuttle bus from the field back to the dorms at noon, the food is about
> half-price the dinner tab and it is still all you can eat.


On the phone the UW-OSH dorm-gal said the waiting list for the dorms was
almost 700 names.

You think I have a shot at a dorm room if I just "show up" Sunday morning? I
enjoyed my dorm experience 2 years ago - plus $44/night is not bad!!

Thanks


Montblack

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Man, who'd have thought that an FBO meltdown a year ago would have put me
>>in this spot?
>
>
> It's called "terminal indebtedness"....
>
> ;-)
Yep, one of those things that was crummy at the time since it meant
going to a different airport if I wanted to rent. I figure it really
pushed me into ownership about a year or two ahead of when I thought I'd
take the plunge. No looking back now, especially since we're operating
for *less* than another FBO in the area charges for their wet rate on a
C-152.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

RST Engineering wrote:

> Are we still thinking about a convoy? Jay's party is Saturday and we will
> be leaving Grass Valley early on Friday (or perhaps even Thursday if the
> weather looks crappy.)
Sure Jim. I still want to head up your way and actually meet. Funny, I
shot the VOR approach to Grass Valley last Thursday evening when I was
out with my CFII. I might be able to make it up to your neck of the
woods next weekend sometime.

Our plan is to leave Friday as well. That might be from RHV if I fly
down to pickup my brother (and the bay area fog cycle allows it). If
fog is likely, he'd drive up this way and we'd leave from LHM.

> We generally shoot for Morgan County UT for the first stop and Alliance NE
> for the night. Next day is pretty much a piece of cake into Iowa City with
> one gas stop.
I'll have to lookup Morgan County. I've probably seen it, just don't
remember it right now. So long as I can get relatively cheap (if that's
possible) 100ll, I'm a happy camper. I generally plan 3-ish hour legs
since anything longer than 3:30 gets a little uncomfortable.

> What sort of TAS do you get out of that rascal at 10.5 or so?
You know, I've only calculated TAS once and IIRC, it was around 125-130
kts and I that was between 4500-5500 MSL. One partner mentioned he was
getting 155 kts at 12,000 but didn't say if that was TAS or IAS...my bet
is that it was IAS though.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[John T]

I think there is also a shuttle/bus inside the grounds that goes to the
seaplane base. WAAAAAYYYY down on the south end.

[RST Engineering]

> Sure Jim. I still want to head up your way and actually meet. Funny, I
> shot the VOR approach to Grass Valley last Thursday evening when I was out
> with my CFII. I might be able to make it up to your neck of the woods
> next weekend sometime.

That's a dog of an approach, isn't it? Minimums are about 300' ABOVE
pattern altitude -- and if you miscalculate time, you are looking the fire
tower on Banner Mountain right in the snoot on the missed approach.

I thoroughly plan on spending all next weekend in the hangar putting the
last pieces back onto the engine.


> I'll have to lookup Morgan County. I've probably seen it, just don't
> remember it right now. So long as I can get relatively cheap (if that's
> possible) 100ll, I'm a happy camper. I generally plan 3-ish hour legs
> since anything longer than 3:30 gets a little uncomfortable.

That's right; I forgot. You need LL for your bird. I'd recommend Brigham
City just north of Salt Lake ($2.75) and then Alliance ($2.99). The only
problem is that RHV-BMC is 500 miles, or about 4 hours in your bird and you
said you wanted 3 hour legs. You can do it in three hops -- Wells [$2.70]
to Rawlins [$3.08] and then a chip shot into Alliance.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Wells stop. If you do
Brigham City, it is one hell of a climb to get through Joseph Pass and on
towards Eavenston and Ft. Bridger without going over some really snotty
terrain.


> You know, I've only calculated TAS once and IIRC, it was around 125-130
> kts and I that was between 4500-5500 MSL. One partner mentioned he was
> getting 155 kts at 12,000 but didn't say if that was TAS or IAS...my bet
> is that it was IAS though.

Well, if he was getting 155 knots IAS at 12k, then TAS would be something on
the order of 190 knots. That's one mother-fast Arrow.

See ya when you get here.

Jim

[Jack Allison]

RST Engineering wrote:

> That's a dog of an approach, isn't it? Minimums are about 300' ABOVE
> pattern altitude -- and if you miscalculate time, you are looking the fire
> tower on Banner Mountain right in the snoot on the missed approach.
Ya, it was an interesting one. We wound up a mile north of the
airport...not that it had anything to do with the instrument student
flying the plane!

>
> I thoroughly plan on spending all next weekend in the hangar putting the
> last pieces back onto the engine.
Cool, I have instrument lessons Saturday and Sunday mornings and should
be able to hop up there afterwards.

> That's right; I forgot. You need LL for your bird. I'd recommend Brigham
> City just north of Salt Lake ($2.75) and then Alliance ($2.99). The only
> problem is that RHV-BMC is 500 miles, or about 4 hours in your bird and you
> said you wanted 3 hour legs. You can do it in three hops -- Wells [$2.70]
> to Rawlins [$3.08] and then a chip shot into Alliance.
If we departed from RHV, we could top off at Grass Valley and go from
there. Despite planning three hour legs, there have been times where
it's pushed closer to four hours. I'll play around with some flight
planning options for the stops you mentioned and see how the numbers
look. Man, 100LL less than $3.00? Flying to OSH is going to be down
right cheap...er, sort of :-) 100ll at LHM is $3.42

> Well, if he was getting 155 knots IAS at 12k, then TAS would be something on
> the order of 190 knots. That's one mother-fast Arrow.

Hmmm, didn't consider that... We've got several speed mods and all but
190 kts TAS? Hmmm, maybe he had the turbo option installed :-)
>
> See ya when you get here.

I'll drop you an e-mail as plans develop next week


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[RST Engineering]

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
> RST Engineering wrote:

> If we departed from RHV, we could top off at Grass Valley and go from
> there.

You could, but I suspect you'd like to fly efficiently. If you throttled
back to fly with me at 110 knots, you'd practically be on the back side of
your power curve. My intent was to be an hour ahead of you on departure,
you'd catch me somewhere around Rock Springs or Rawlins, and then you'd beat
me into Alliance by half an hour. If you stopped twice for gas (Wells and
Rawlins) we'd probably be to Alliance at the same time AND be closer to each
other on the whole trip. I flight plan at least a 45 minute window for a
gas stop.

I think if we stay at 11.5 eastbound we ought to be in contact with one
another for over a hundred miles in any direction...let me do some quick
math presuming average terrain is 5K, then we are 5.5k above it, doubling
that to 11 and taking the square root gives us 104 miles and doubling that
because we are both at the same altitude gives us a plane to plane radio
horizon of a little over 200 miles. Not a problem.

I'm going to call the folks at Alliance this week to check on cargas and
tell them we plan RON on Friday and to please hold onto the airport vehicle
for us. I'd sort of like to get there early enough to take a trip out to
Autohenge about ten miles west of Alliance.

How many of your chairs are going to have butts in them?




Despite planning three hour legs, there have been times where
> it's pushed closer to four hours. I'll play around with some flight
> planning options for the stops you mentioned and see how the numbers look.
> Man, 100LL less than $3.00? Flying to OSH is going to be down right
> cheap...er, sort of :-) 100ll at LHM is $3.42

I think Jay was saying that autogas in IOW is somewhere around a buck-ninety
a gallon.


>
>
> I'll drop you an e-mail as plans develop next week

Naah...let's keep it on the ng. Maybe we can rustle up another convoy-er or
two. Will you have your instrument ticket by that time?

Jim
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

>I think there is also a shuttle/bus inside the grounds that goes to the
>seaplane base. WAAAAAYYYY down on the south end.

Yes, and the Seaplane Base is an absolute "must see" of any trip to OSH.

It's also usually the "most likely to be skipped" when you're running out of
time/energy. I attended ~15 OSH fly-ins before I ever made it over there.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> You think I have a shot at a dorm room if I just "show up" Sunday morning?
> I enjoyed my dorm experience 2 years ago - plus $44/night is not bad!!

What? You're not going to sleep sitting on a box in the middle of a flooded
tent again?

Wimp!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I think Jay was saying that autogas in IOW is somewhere around a
> buck-ninety a gallon.

Just filled the Grape for $1.94 per gallon this morning...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Yep, one of those things that was crummy at the time since it meant going
> to a different airport if I wanted to rent. I figure it really pushed me
> into ownership about a year or two ahead of when I thought I'd take the
> plunge. No looking back now, especially since we're operating for *less*
> than another FBO in the area charges for their wet rate on a C-152.

Oh, crap, Jack, now you've done it. I felt a ripple in the Force when you
said that....

Once you brag about how cheap your plane is to operate, that opens the Gates
of Hell, and out come all the Expensive Demonic Repairs.

Sorry, man. Brace yourself.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John T]

I must admit, this will be my-(calculating...)16th Oshkosh, and I
haven't seen the seaplane base yet. I'll have to make it this year
though, for the Fish fry at least.

John

[Morgans]

"Jack Allison" > wrote

No looking back now, especially since we're operating
> for *less* than another FBO in the area charges for their wet rate on a
> C-152.

Are you also including a fund for: engine overhaul reserve, annual
inspection expenses reserve, and hangar or tiedown, in your per hour
calculation? If so, that is truly great news!
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

Jim ....

Please..."annual inspection expenses reserve" should be out of your
vocabulary. The annual inspection should be something on the order of
$200-400. What the inspection REVEALS if not taken care of during the year
might be a hell of a lot more. But don't lay the cost of preventive
maintenance on the annual.

My annual this year (if I couldn't do it myself) would be $150. The
cylinder inspection and replacement of parts is another $600. The muffler
with deteriorated flame tubes is another $600. The muffler shroud is $200.
Is this $1400 part of the annual? I think not. Please separate "average
preventive maintenance" from the "annual".

Thanks,


Jim


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...

> Are you also including a fund for: engine overhaul reserve, annual
> inspection expenses reserve, and hangar or tiedown, in your per hour
> calculation? If so, that is truly great news!
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:

Hy my name is Paul and I'm afraid to get wet. I know how to fire up a
mean BBQ (but not nearly as mean as Jim's) but I'm afraid to get wet. I
want hot and cold (as opposed to one temperature) showers (the only time
I'm not afraid to get wet). I have to drive to Oshkosh and I'm afraid
to get wet. I could camp near a couple of really great looking Pipers
where the ice chest always has a cold one but, you guessed it, I'm
afraid to get wet.

:-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Morgans wrote:

> Are you also including a fund for: engine overhaul reserve, annual
> inspection expenses reserve, and hangar or tiedown, in your per hour
> calculation? If so, that is truly great news!
Yep, this is including all fixed and variable expenses. Variable
expenses including engine/maintenance reserves and fuel run right at
$50/hr., depending on fuel cost. Tack on another $200/month for each
one of us (three partners) and that has put it right at $70/hr. for my
hours each of the last two months.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Oh, crap, Jack, now you've done it. I felt a ripple in the Force when you
> said that....

Man, not only is the PPL a license to learn, ownership is too! May the
force be with me :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>I think Jay was saying that autogas in IOW is somewhere around a
>>buck-ninety a gallon.
>
>
> Just filled the Grape for $1.94 per gallon this morning...
>
> ;-)
Wow, less than $2/gal auto gas. Haven't seen that in quite some time
around here. Currently right around $2.20.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

RST Engineering wrote:

> You could, but I suspect you'd like to fly efficiently.

<minor snipage>

Ah, I get the picture now. Yes, efficient is good, especially on an
approx. 1500 nm cross country. Sure, we could hop scotch and plan on
Alliance or wherever makes sense as a final destination for day 1.

> I'm going to call the folks at Alliance this week to check on cargas and
> tell them we plan RON on Friday and to please hold onto the airport vehicle
> for us. I'd sort of like to get there early enough to take a trip out to
> Autohenge about ten miles west of Alliance.
>
> How many of your chairs are going to have butts in them?
Front two seats with butts, the rear two with misc. flying and camping
gear. With full tanks, I figure we'll be about 100 pounds under max.
gross. Better than two years ago in the 172SP, not as good as last year
in the 182.

> Naah...let's keep it on the ng. Maybe we can rustle up another convoy-er or
> two. Will you have your instrument ticket by that time?
I wish. I seriously looked at pushing things harder in order to finish
by OSH this year. It was possible but would have meant really pushing
harder than I'd care to do right now, to the point where it wouldn't
have been a lot of fun and way too many other priorities would take a
back seat. So, it's another VFR trip this year. I'll probably do a
couple of hours under the hood along the way since my brother is a
qualified safety pilot.

Jav H. - here's your chance to join the convoy :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Morgans]

"Jack Allison" > wrote

I have to drive to Oshkosh and I'm afraid
> to get wet. I could camp near a couple of really great looking Pipers
> where the ice chest always has a cold one but, you guessed it, I'm
> afraid to get wet.

Might I suggest a rental motor home? They don't get wet, except in the
shower, and have hot showers, and as an added bonus, air-conditioning!
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"RST Engineering" > wrote> Jim ....
>
> Please..."annual inspection expenses reserve" should be out of your
> vocabulary. The annual inspection should be something on the order of
> $200-400. What the inspection REVEALS if not taken care of during the
year
> might be a hell of a lot more. But don't lay the cost of preventive
> maintenance on the annual.

True. Well said.

If the plane is new to you, and a very complete prebuy inspection was not
done; then you could get bitten on the behind.
--
Jim in NC

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
>> Just filled the Grape for $1.94 per gallon this morning...

> Wow, less than $2/gal auto gas. Haven't seen that in quite some time
> around here. Currently right around $2.20.


http://www.twincitiesgasprices.com/
(Twin Cities gas prices)


Montblack

[Montblack]

("John T" wrote)
>I must admit, this will be my-(calculating...)16th Oshkosh, and I haven't
>seen the seaplane base yet. I'll have to make it this year though, for the
>Fish fry at least.


Been there twice - Oshkosh AND the seaplane base.

Have yet to see the Museum. Last year we split up. Some went to the museum,
my group went to hear Jim and Gail's presentation - 'Best of Oshkosh.'


Montblack

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> Yes, and the Seaplane Base is an absolute "must see" of any trip to OSH.

Is there a day, and best time (other than the fish fry) that the visit is
best? I went there once, a couple of years ago, and it was about like
watching the grass grow, and the paint dry.
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> Have yet to see the Museum. Last year we split up. Some went to the
> museum,
> my group went to hear Jim and Gail's presentation - 'Best of Oshkosh.'

Do NOT NOT NOT waste your time going to the Museum during the fly-in.

You live in Minnesota. Go visit the (outstanding) EAA Museum during any of
the other 51 weeks per year when it's not packed.

Oshkosh is a very nice city to explore. Just not during the last week of
July.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Is there a day, and best time (other than the fish fry) that the visit is
> best? I went there once, a couple of years ago, and it was about like
> watching the grass grow, and the paint dry.

Well, that's part of the reason we like it so much. By "Day Three" or so at
OSH, we are starting to burn out. We've seen and talked to so many people,
seen so many planes, been in the hot sun for so long, walked over 30 miles,
that we're really starting to run down.

A couple of hours sitting on the beach, watching the kids make sand castles,
while the occasional Cub on floats splashes in right in front of us, really
sets our equilibrium back a notch.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:

> Jim ....
>
> Please..."annual inspection expenses reserve" should be out of your
> vocabulary. The annual inspection should be something on the order of
> $200-400. What the inspection REVEALS if not taken care of during the year
> might be a hell of a lot more. But don't lay the cost of preventive
> maintenance on the annual.
>
> My annual this year (if I couldn't do it myself) would be $150. The
> cylinder inspection and replacement of parts is another $600. The muffler
> with deteriorated flame tubes is another $600. The muffler shroud is $200.
> Is this $1400 part of the annual? I think not. Please separate "average
> preventive maintenance" from the "annual".

It is only maintenance if you replace the parts before they break. :-)


Matt

[RST Engineering]

No, it is always maintenance. It is PREVENTIVE maintenance if you replace
the parts before they break. {;^P

Jim


>
> It is only maintenance if you replace the parts before they break. :-)
>
>
> Matt

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:

> No, it is always maintenance. It is PREVENTIVE maintenance if you replace
> the parts before they break. {;^P

No, it is a repair when done after the break. :-)

Preventive maintenance is redundant.


Matt

[RST Engineering]

I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

{;-)

Jim





"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> RST Engineering wrote:
>
>> No, it is always maintenance. It is PREVENTIVE maintenance if you
>> replace the parts before they break. {;^P
>
> No, it is a repair when done after the break. :-)
>
> Preventive maintenance is redundant.
>
>
> Matt

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:
> I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
>
> {;-)

Ah, preventive maintenance. :-)

Saves a later repair after the battle. ;-)


Matt

[Margy]

Morgans wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
>>Yes, and the Seaplane Base is an absolute "must see" of any trip to OSH.
>
>
> Is there a day, and best time (other than the fish fry) that the visit is
> best? I went there once, a couple of years ago, and it was about like
> watching the grass grow, and the paint dry.
Any time it's REALLY HOT. The seaplane base must be 10 degrees cooler
and is very laid back. I must admit we haven't been there in a few
years, but last year we also worked about 60 hours each.

Margy

[Blanche]

Since we're coming from Denver, Alliance is out of the way (fuel issue).
We'll probably stop somewhere in the neighborhood of Grand Island on
our way to Iowa City.

Meet ya there!

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
> Hy my name is Paul and I'm afraid to get wet. I know how to fire up a
> mean BBQ (but not nearly as mean as Jim's) but I'm afraid to get wet. I
> want hot and cold (as opposed to one temperature) showers (the only time
> I'm not afraid to get wet). I have to drive to Oshkosh and I'm afraid to
> get wet. I could camp near a couple of really great looking Pipers where
> the ice chest always has a cold one but, you guessed it, I'm afraid to get
> wet.


Hey, you're all wet - landof10klakes here - I like water ...just not in the
#%^&* tent!!! BTDT.

I was thinking about checking out camp Scholler, or some other close private
campgrounds, to see what that's like, or just doing the "old" Wal-Mart
parking lot thing. However, if you have space by the Arrow for me to put up
a tent, that would be GREAT!

The 4x8 space in the back of the minivan will be the new Plan: B - which
still isn't a bad option since I do sleep like a rock in the minivan. <g>

Returning to being afraid of getting wet, I *am* open to the "I'm melting,
I'm melting" exercise routine. Fast results. See those pounds melt away
....like magic. <g>


Montblack

Jack,
http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/nominees/winners.html
Check out Best Musical 2005 <g>. There is a God...

[Jack Allison]

Montblack wrote:

> Hey, you're all wet - landof10klakes here - I like water ...just not in
> the #%^&* tent!!! BTDT.
Wuss. Getting stuff wet at OSH, inside the tent or outside, is all part
of the experience...right up there with sleeping in the plane for a few
hours in the middle of the night. BTDT two years ago and you know what?
The front seats of a 172SP are pretty comfy. And, if you're Jay and
Mary, part of the experience is having your tent blow away so you get to
walk to the closest store for an upgrade.

> I was thinking about checking out camp Scholler, or some other close
> private campgrounds, to see what that's like, or just doing the "old"
> Wal-Mart parking lot thing. However, if you have space by the Arrow for
> me to put up a tent, that would be GREAT!
Gee, between us and the Honecks, I'm sure there'd be room...that assumes
we actually register with our correct tail numbers so you'd be able to
find us. Paul walks to the nearest registration spot, "Hi, I'm looking
for N2104T and N56993"...<quizzical look from the registration guy
follows>..."I'm sorry sir but I don't have an entry for either one of
those N-numbers". Hmmm, then again, you're probably bring food, beer,
etc. Hey, speaking of which, you'd better start greasing the skids with
the local guys like Ryan W. to get you in.

>
> The 4x8 space in the back of the minivan will be the new Plan: B - which
> still isn't a bad option since I do sleep like a rock in the minivan. <g>
Plus, the extra sound proofing of the minivan is most likely a
plus...no, not for you my friend, for those who may be nearby.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
> Hey, speaking of which, you'd better start greasing the skids with the
> local guys like Ryan W. to get you in.


Was he the guy on the scooter? Got his e-mail address?

I'm 2-0 so far, but.... I was thinking of e-mailing N40 security this year
with a photo of the van, my EAA #, license plate number, intentions, history
of the rec.aviation N40 Party, etc.

I worry though - talking your way in is easy ...if you meet up with someone
reasonable. Asking permission, beforehand in an e-mail, is fraught with all
kinds of peril.

For those wondering, this is for a supply drop - minvan gets parked off the
grounds.

They're pretty strict on who gets in. Some are! Others will ask what time
they should swing by the site for beer and brats? My goal is to find The
Others :-)


Montblack

[[email protected]]

wow,
"greasing the skids with local guys"...

Makes it feel kind of like Chicago...

As long as they invite me back, I usually have a vehicle pass to get
onto the grounds at the Hilton gate. I never really can be absolutely
sure until I show up, but I've never had a problem. I can certainly
help bring in food supplies and such, or whatever (within reason and
prudence, I'm not for losing my access). Last year I wasn't able to
hang around too long for the food, the after-airshow Runway 9-27
"airshow" keeps all of us pretty busy.
Last year my 172 was in the second row of camping, and I was either in
a green jeep wrangler or on a scooter.

Ryan

[Dave Butler]

John T wrote:
> I must admit, this will be my-(calculating...)16th Oshkosh, and I
> haven't seen the seaplane base yet. I'll have to make it this year
> though, for the Fish fry at least.

This will be my 10th in 11 years. I finally made it to the seaplane base last
year. I won't miss it again.

In response to some recommendations waaaay back up the thread... if you guys
think Friar Tuck's and that chinese buffet are the peak of dining perfection,
you are seriously taste-impaired. Give me LaSure's, breakfast, lunch and dinner. :-)

Hope to make it to the r.a.* party this year for sure.

Dave

[Blanche]

I've already checked with the EAA people and there's no problem getting
a parking pass for the grounds. I'll be flying in and have the rent car
already reserved (did that last January!)

[RST Engineering]

Boy, you must have a permanent pass to Pope Paul. This is my 33rd year,
forurms, fixit shed, media passes, and it is STILL like pulling teeth to get
my vehice onto the field to haul my crap for EAA purposes from one point to
another.

What's your secret?

Jim



"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> I've already checked with the EAA people and there's no problem getting
> a parking pass for the grounds. I'll be flying in and have the rent car
> already reserved (did that last January!)
>
>

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> Boy, you must have a permanent pass to Pope Paul. This is my 33rd year,
> forurms, fixit shed, media passes, and it is STILL like pulling teeth to
> get my vehice onto the field to haul my crap for EAA purposes from one
> point to another.
>
> What's your secret?


1. "Discover Aviation Days" Volunteer shirts from (ANE)
2. A healthy appreciation for The Rockford Files :-)

http://makeashorterlink.com/?C68325B3B
(2003) That's my Honda in the pic <g>

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K1B332B3B
(2004) Minivan is on other side of the plane.

But you're right - in my experience, they do run a tight (security) ship up
in the N40.


Montblack

[[email protected]]

Glad to see you're following the important things Ryan. Pull the right
strings and I'm sure Paul will reward you with your pick of anything
from the well stocked cooler :-)

See you soon our scooter riding friend!