Call signs

[buttman]

When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
"Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
witness one.

Anyways, so I begin using "Warior" instead of Piper. When I got my
instrument rating and started doing IFR stuff, I noticed no matter what
I use, ATC always addresses me as "Cherokee 12345". Once I even tried
to get an IFR clearance that went something like this:

Me: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the ground at LUK, IFR to HZY

[45 seconds of silence]...

Me [slower]: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the grund at LUK, IFR to HZY

Controller: Aircraft calling, say call sign again

Me: 4...4...5...8...U

controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....

What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
"Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
do all the other Warrior people use?

[Jay Honeck]

> I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
> do all the other Warrior people use?

When we owned a Warrior we always called ourselves "Warrior 33431" to
ATC, and never had a problem.

Our problems began when we started calling ourselves "Pathfinder
56993." NO ONE knows what a Pathfinder is, cuz Piper only made a
relative handful of them before changing the name to "Dakota" -- which
everyone seems to know.

Thus, we have taken to calling ourselves "Dakota 56993" rather than
hassle with the explanations.

I don't think you'll have any trouble calling yourselves a Warrior. If
they change it to "Cherokee" I suppose that's there choice.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Casey Wilson]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
>> do all the other Warrior people use?
>
> When we owned a Warrior we always called ourselves "Warrior 33431" to
> ATC, and never had a problem.
>
> Our problems began when we started calling ourselves "Pathfinder
> 56993." NO ONE knows what a Pathfinder is, cuz Piper only made a
> relative handful of them before changing the name to "Dakota" -- which
> everyone seems to know.
>
> Thus, we have taken to calling ourselves "Dakota 56993" rather than
> hassle with the explanations.
>
> I don't think you'll have any trouble calling yourselves a Warrior. If
> they change it to "Cherokee" I suppose that's there choice.
> --
> Jay Honeck

I use "Skyhawk nnnn" in the 172, consistently. The only time I've
ever had ATC come back and ask for more was in a different airplane and I
called in "Commuter nnnn."

[Dave S]

Anytime I am in a Pa 28 derivative, I identify myself, and expect to be
called a "cherokee".

Even when I'm in an Arrow, and the identifier is a P28R, they still call
me cherokee.

Dave


buttman wrote:
> When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
> 12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
> 12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
> "Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
> callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
> sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
> tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
> don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
> you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
> instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
> witness one.
>
> Anyways, so I begin using "Warior" instead of Piper. When I got my
> instrument rating and started doing IFR stuff, I noticed no matter what
> I use, ATC always addresses me as "Cherokee 12345". Once I even tried
> to get an IFR clearance that went something like this:
>
> Me: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the ground at LUK, IFR to HZY
>
> [45 seconds of silence]...
>
> Me [slower]: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the grund at LUK, IFR to HZY
>
> Controller: Aircraft calling, say call sign again
>
> Me: 4...4...5...8...U
>
> controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....
>
> What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
> saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
> and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
> Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
> side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
> "Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
> do all the other Warrior people use?
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "buttman" > said:
>saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
>and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use

I learned in our club's Warrior, and for the last 10 years I've been
flying a mixture of Warrior's, Archers, and Dakotas, and with one
exception everybody[1], both pilots and ATC, says "Cherokee".

The problem for me was that now I checked in the club's Lance, and ATC
always says "Lance". And my ears are used to listening for "Cherokee",
and so I miss a lot more radio calls in the Lance than I do in our various
Cherokees.

[1] There is one controller at Rochester who knows our planes, and if you
call him up with "Cherokee November 8323Yankee", he'll respond "Dakota
23Yankee cleared to...". Even he doesn't correct the Warrior and
Archers, and refers to them as Cherokees.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction into a
battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."
- Calvin discovers Usenet

[Stubby]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> In a previous article, "buttman" > said:
>
>>saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
>>and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
>
>
> I learned in our club's Warrior, and for the last 10 years I've been
> flying a mixture of Warrior's, Archers, and Dakotas, and with one
> exception everybody[1], both pilots and ATC, says "Cherokee".
>
> The problem for me was that now I checked in the club's Lance, and ATC
> always says "Lance". And my ears are used to listening for "Cherokee",
> and so I miss a lot more radio calls in the Lance than I do in our various
> Cherokees.
>
> [1] There is one controller at Rochester who knows our planes, and if you
> call him up with "Cherokee November 8323Yankee", he'll respond "Dakota
> 23Yankee cleared to...". Even he doesn't correct the Warrior and
> Archers, and refers to them as Cherokees.
>
All the controller cares about is your speed. So he wants to know if
you are a "Cherokee" (Warrior, Arrow, ....) or a LearJet or a heavy.
That tells him about times and congestion problems, his job.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Stubby > said:
>All the controller cares about is your speed. So he wants to know if
>you are a "Cherokee" (Warrior, Arrow, ....) or a LearJet or a heavy.
>That tells him about times and congestion problems, his job.

Well, they care enough about the speed differences between a Warrior and a
Dakota that they changed them all from PA-28s to P28As and P28Bs
respectively.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
IMAP is just not a very rich protocol.
-- Steve Conn, Exchange Server product manager for Microsoft

[Matt Whiting]

buttman wrote:

> When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
> 12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
> 12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
> "Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
> callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
> sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
> tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
> don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
> you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
> instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
> witness one.

I've noticed that also, and have never understood why for sure, but I
think it may be related to many Cessna's using a number for the model
rather than a name. When I owned a 182 I always used Skylane in the
call sign and most controllers responded in kind, but some would reply
using Cessna.


Matt

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> I've noticed that also, and have never understood why for sure, but I
> think it may be related to many Cessna's using a number for the model
> rather than a name. When I owned a 182 I always used Skylane in the
> call sign and most controllers responded in kind, but some would reply
> using Cessna.


I always used "Cherokee" for Piper singles but the model name for Piper twins.
Cessnas were either "Cessna" or "Twin Cessna". Beech singles were called
"Beech" but I used the model name for Beech twins. No consistency, I guess.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[aluckyguess]

Maybe because Cherokee is like the main name as in "Cherokee Warrior,
Cherokee Arrow". The Cherokee people had a Warrior and an Arrow, they didnt
have a Dakota or a Lance.
Get what I am drying to say.

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> I don't think you'll have any trouble calling yourselves a Warrior. If
> they change it to "Cherokee" I suppose that's there choice.

Jay, you must be really behind on sleep, or something. You wrote "that's
(there ?) choice." That isn't at all like you!

Since Barnyard BoB hasn't been around lately, I thought I would take an
unusual jab! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"aluckyguess" > wrote

> Get what I am drying to say.

Sounds to me like you are all wet!
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, you must be really behind on sleep, or something. You wrote "that's
> (there ?) choice." That isn't at all like you!

Hoo, boy -- that's sad, isn't it? I really kicked that post out a bit TOO
quickly, I guess.

We've had a really busy day at the inn -- another wedding party, and
tornados rocking and rolling us around. I ain't got time to bleed, er, I
mean, to spell...

My son is NOT going to want to clean the pool tomorrow...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>>All the controller cares about is your speed. So he wants to know if
>>you are a "Cherokee" (Warrior, Arrow, ....) or a LearJet or a heavy.
>>That tells him about times and congestion problems, his job.
>
> Well, they care enough about the speed differences between a Warrior and a
> Dakota that they changed them all from PA-28s to P28As and P28Bs
> respectively.

Right. A Pathfinder/Dakota cruises more than 20% faster than a Cherokee
140.

Which is why, when I've asked the tower controllers at Cedar Rapids, they
told me that they appreciated knowing that we're a "Dakota" rather than a
"Cherokee" -- as this knowledge enables them to scoot us around their little
chessboard a little faster. (Although, I suspect, 90% of the time it really
doesn't matter...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> another wedding party, and
> tornados rocking and rolling us around.

Tornadoes, Huh. I haven't looked at a weather map today. I've gotta say
that I don't miss that aspect of Ohio, and you are worse with tornadoes by a
factor of ten, or so.

One thing that the South has, that Ohio does not have very often, are "toad
strangler" rain storms. It is not unusual in the summer, to get a squall
that dumps an inch, or 3/4ths of an inch in 15 minutes. Sometimes, on rare
occasion, it is more than that.
--
Jim in NC

[H.P.]

While we're at this, I heard a pilot preface his call sign with "Turkey"
(nnnn). What's that?? Or was I hearing wrong?



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
>> do all the other Warrior people use?
>
> When we owned a Warrior we always called ourselves "Warrior 33431" to
> ATC, and never had a problem.
>
> Our problems began when we started calling ourselves "Pathfinder
> 56993." NO ONE knows what a Pathfinder is, cuz Piper only made a
> relative handful of them before changing the name to "Dakota" -- which
> everyone seems to know.
>
> Thus, we have taken to calling ourselves "Dakota 56993" rather than
> hassle with the explanations.
>
> I don't think you'll have any trouble calling yourselves a Warrior. If
> they change it to "Cherokee" I suppose that's there choice.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Dale]

In article om>,
"buttman" > wrote:


> What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
> saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
> and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
> Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
> side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
> "Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
> do all the other Warrior people use?


Don't feel bad. I used to fly a Consolidated B-24J Liberator around the
country. You know, the 4 engine WWII bomber.

Invariably when flying IFR we would be called "Beech" by the
controllers. It seems the Beech Sierra is a "B24".

I started calling up and saying "Liberator 224J, a WWII 4-engine bomber".

They would say "Beech 224J, cleared as filed......."


<G>

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Dale wrote:
> Invariably when flying IFR we would be called "Beech" by the
> controllers. It seems the Beech Sierra is a "B24".
>
> I started calling up and saying "Liberator 224J, a WWII 4-engine bomber".
>
> They would say "Beech 224J, cleared as filed......."


Maybe you would have had better luck with "Consolidated".




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:56:07 GMT, "Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com>
wrote:

> I use "Skyhawk nnnn" in the 172, consistently.

That's the style at the (non-towered) airfield at which I do my
flying.

The Cubs don't have installed radios, and I've never heard another Cub
Driver on the radio, so I make my own style. I say "Piper Cub" XXXX
because it trips fast off the tongue. After the first call I saw "the
Cub" with no numbers. Again, non-towered. At a towered field, I use
whatever the controller used when he first replied to me, typically
the last three numbers/digits.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jay Honeck]

>> tornados rocking and rolling us around.
>
> Tornadoes, Huh. I haven't looked at a weather map today. I've gotta say
> that I don't miss that aspect of Ohio, and you are worse with tornadoes by
> a
> factor of ten, or so.

Yeah, well, nine out of ten of our supposed "tornados" are merely the
creations of the apoplectic weather guys on TV and at the National Weather
Service.

Remember, these are the very same guys who got schools cancelled here last
winter because of the THREAT of an imminent "huge" snow storm.

Last night, they blew the warning sirens here twice. The first time I was
watching the cell approaching on Doppler radar, and KNEW they were full of
crap -- but the weatherman was looking at the same cell and taking phone
calls on live TV from people who were supposedly watching barns blow down.

So, when the sirens went off a SECOND time, I reluctantly got Mary and the
kids up, and we all traipsed down into the basement (which is where my
office, workshop, rec room, bar, and Mary's sewing room is -- so we ain't
exactly huddled in a root cellar) to wait it out.

Of course, when the "killer cell" hit, the wind gusted to 30, and a few
drops of rain fell. I don't think it even got the deck completely wet.

Wow, was Mary ****ed.

These hyped up crazy TV weather men are going to get someone killed some
day.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dale]

In article >,
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote:


>
> Maybe you would have had better luck with "Consolidated".

That was used also...you would think the "4-engine bomber" would be a
clue. <G>

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Newps]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, Stubby > said:
>
>>All the controller cares about is your speed. So he wants to know if
>>you are a "Cherokee" (Warrior, Arrow, ....) or a LearJet or a heavy.
>>That tells him about times and congestion problems, his job.
>
>
> Well, they care enough about the speed differences between a Warrior and a
> Dakota that they changed them all from PA-28s to P28As and P28Bs
> respectively.
>

They being center guys. 20 knots to a tower controller is trivial.

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>>All the controller cares about is your speed. So he wants to know if
>>>you are a "Cherokee" (Warrior, Arrow, ....) or a LearJet or a heavy.
>>>That tells him about times and congestion problems, his job.
>>
>>Well, they care enough about the speed differences between a Warrior and a
>>Dakota that they changed them all from PA-28s to P28As and P28Bs
>>respectively.
>
>
> Right. A Pathfinder/Dakota cruises more than 20% faster than a Cherokee
> 140.

Around here we very rarely see cherokees. People just don't find them
useful for mountain flying. If a pilot call in and uses Piper 12345 he
will get asked what type Piper. More than likely it will be a cub. I
care about the speed difference between a cub and a cherokee. Between a
cherokee 235 and a 140 isn't relavant to my planning.

[Newps]

H.P. wrote:

> While we're at this, I heard a pilot preface his call sign with "Turkey"
> (nnnn). What's that?? Or was I hearing wrong?

No you got that right. He was referring to his low wing.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
>
> Don't feel bad. I used to fly a Consolidated B-24J Liberator around the
> country. You know, the 4 engine WWII bomber.
>
> Invariably when flying IFR we would be called "Beech" by the
> controllers. It seems the Beech Sierra is a "B24".
>

The Beech Sierra is BE24, B24 is the designator for the Consolidated B-24
Liberator as well as the C-87 and LB-30.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
m...
>
> Maybe you would have had better luck with "Consolidated".
>

If I received a call from a "Consolidated 224J" I'd have to ask if it was a
Liberator, or a Catalina, or a Privateer, or a Valiant.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> They being center guys. 20 knots to a tower controller is trivial.
>

Center guys had the designators changed? Why would they do that?

[Darrell S]

buttman wrote:
> When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
> 12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
> 12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
> "Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
> callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
> sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
> tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
> don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
> you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
> instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet
> to witness one.
>
> Anyways, so I begin using "Warior" instead of Piper. When I got my
> instrument rating and started doing IFR stuff, I noticed no matter
> what I use, ATC always addresses me as "Cherokee 12345". Once I even
> tried to get an IFR clearance that went something like this:
>
> Me: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the ground at LUK, IFR to HZY
>
> [45 seconds of silence]...
>
> Me [slower]: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the grund at LUK, IFR to HZY
>
> Controller: Aircraft calling, say call sign again
>
> Me: 4...4...5...8...U
>
> controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....
>
> What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
> saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
> and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now
> use Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
> side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
> "Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
> do all the other Warrior people use?

FWIW. I spent 20 years in the Air Force as a pilot. After retiring I got
my civilian ratings. After reading the "instructions", I called myself
"November nnnn" because that's the way it was listed in the "book" (at least
at that time-35 years ago). It took a while, listening to other aircraft
calling in, to find everone was using their aircraft type in lieu of
November.
The instructions (at that time) never said to say type aircraft as your call
sign prefix. I felt rather foolish when I finally realized what was really
being used.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

[Chip Jones]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > They being center guys. 20 knots to a tower controller is trivial.
> >
>
> Center guys had the designators changed? Why would they do that?
>
>

I thought it was the bloody FRENCH who had the type designators changed, via
ICAO. Right after they got finished butchering our WX format. Apparently,
they don't appreciate the difference between an MD80 and an MD88 (both are
coded MD80), but they do care about the difference between the A320 and
A321...

Chip, ZTL

[Jay Honeck]

> Around here we very rarely see cherokees. People just don't find them
> useful for mountain flying.

What, you guys don't have airports yet out West?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Brien K. Meehan]

buttman wrote:
> If you just say "Cessna", you
> don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna.

Citation drivers won't let you make that mistake - they'll make darned
sure you know it's a Citation.

The same is true for everyone driving any Cessna larger than a Skylane.
The only ones calling themselves "Cessna" are flying model numbers
lower than 190.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Newps > said:
>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> Well, they care enough about the speed differences between a Warrior and a
>> Dakota that they changed them all from PA-28s to P28As and P28Bs
>> respectively.
>They being center guys. 20 knots to a tower controller is trivial.

I'm not disputing you, but I should point out that our club's Dakota is a
good 30-40 knots faster than our Warrior.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You know the saying, every time you develop an idiot proof system they
develop a better type of idiot... and now you know who "they" are.
-- Matthew Malthouse

[Chip Jones]

"Brien K. Meehan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> buttman wrote:
> > If you just say "Cessna", you
> > don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna.
>
> Citation drivers won't let you make that mistake - they'll make darned
> sure you know it's a Citation.
>
> The same is true for everyone driving any Cessna larger than a Skylane.
> The only ones calling themselves "Cessna" are flying model numbers
> lower than 190.
>

I call Citation 500's and 501's as "Twin Cessna" traffic when they're
clogging up a Flght Level with their slow moving, slow climbing lethargy. A
200 knot, 500 FPM climb-out in the mid twenties? You gotta be kidding...

Chip, ZTL

[nooneimportant]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
k.net...
> Anytime I am in a Pa 28 derivative, I identify myself, and expect to be
> called a "cherokee".
>
> Even when I'm in an Arrow, and the identifier is a P28R, they still call
> me cherokee.
>
> Dave
>
>
> buttman wrote:
>> When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
>> 12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
>> 12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
>> "Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
>> callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
>> sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
>> tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
>> don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
>> you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
>> instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
>> witness one.
>>
>> Anyways, so I begin using "Warior" instead of Piper. When I got my
>> instrument rating and started doing IFR stuff, I noticed no matter what
>> I use, ATC always addresses me as "Cherokee 12345". Once I even tried
>> to get an IFR clearance that went something like this:
>>
>> Me: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the ground at LUK, IFR to HZY
>>
>> [45 seconds of silence]...
>>
>> Me [slower]: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the grund at LUK, IFR to HZY
>>
>> Controller: Aircraft calling, say call sign again
>>
>> Me: 4...4...5...8...U
>>
>> controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....
>>
>> What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
>> saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
>> and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
>> Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
>> side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
>> "Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
>> do all the other Warrior people use?
>>
>

[nooneimportant]

I fly Archers, arrows and seminoles. Normaly call up as archer so and so,
or arrow so and so... and they call me back wtih the model nuber i gave
them, but any radio traffic after that i become cherokee.... be it that Im
in the archer or the arrow. Got really strange flying the seminole into
SOCAL and was reported to another aircraft as a duchess...... (now i wasn't
going to step that low and make my future radio calls as duchess mind you...
felt it was a good time to simply become NOVEMBER such and such....)

Flying the 172's I always just went as "Cessna" sure its teh same as you
would hear on a 152 or 182, but in a tower environment the speeds aren't all
that drastically different (now cruise is a different story!) and they all
look similar from a distance. Centurion is different, as are the twin
cessna's.... I've NEVER heard a citation call in as a cessna... they always
called in as Citation Suchandsuch.

Most of my xc flights now are IFR so I dont' really sweat it out to much
unless they really butcher my number, or give me something unrealistic
"N12345 climb one five thousand by yucca" I'll call back something like
"CHEROKEE 12345 Unable 1-5-thousand" And when VFR will usually just call up
as what I'm flying, unless another controller started calling me
cherokee.... then i stick to it. Looks like a cherokee... same speed
envelope as a cherokee..... only im an archer... go fig.



"buttman" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
> 12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
> 12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
> "Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
> callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
> sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
> tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
> don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
> you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
> instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
> witness one.
>
> Anyways, so I begin using "Warior" instead of Piper. When I got my
> instrument rating and started doing IFR stuff, I noticed no matter what
> I use, ATC always addresses me as "Cherokee 12345". Once I even tried
> to get an IFR clearance that went something like this:
>
> Me: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the ground at LUK, IFR to HZY
>
> [45 seconds of silence]...
>
> Me [slower]: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the grund at LUK, IFR to HZY
>
> Controller: Aircraft calling, say call sign again
>
> Me: 4...4...5...8...U
>
> controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....
>
> What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
> saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
> and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
> Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
> side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
> "Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
> do all the other Warrior people use?
>

[Ben Jackson]

On 2005-06-04, Dave S > wrote:
> Anytime I am in a Pa 28 derivative, I identify myself, and expect to be
> called a "cherokee".
>
> Even when I'm in an Arrow, and the identifier is a P28R, they still call
> me cherokee.

Sometimes ATC converts my Comanche to a Cherokee. Usually then I get
handed off to someone who is surprised to see a Cherokee doing 160kts...

To make up for this I'm sometimes upgraded to "Twin Comanche".

Only rarely am I truncated to "Piper" in which case I follow suit.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[John Galban]

Newps wrote:
>
> Around here we very rarely see cherokees. People just don't find them
> useful for mountain flying.
<snip>

That should read, "People don't know how useful they are for mountain
flying." :-))

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Around here we very rarely see cherokees. People just don't find them
>>useful for mountain flying.
>
>
> What, you guys don't have airports yet out West?

Sure we got airports. Cherokees just ain't any good when there aren't
airports.

[John Galban]

buttman wrote:
<snip>
> controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....
>
> What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
> saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
> and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
> Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
> side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
> "Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
> do all the other Warrior people use?

Most (but not all) tower controllers will change a Warrior, Archer,
Dakota callsign to Cherokee. It's not because of speed. The main
reason is that they often have to call you out as traffic for other
aircraft. Cessna drivers often do not know what a Warrior, Archer or
Dakota might look like. Could be a single or a twin for all they know.
Most everyone knows what a Cherokee looks like. In my early flying
days, I was a Cessna-only pilot. I had no idea what Archer or Warrior
was.

Whenever I'm flying a later model PA28, I always use the Cherokee
call sign.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Jay Honeck]

> Cessna drivers often do not know what a Warrior, Archer or
> Dakota might look like. Could be a single or a twin for all they know.

> Most everyone knows what a Cherokee looks like. In my early flying
> days, I was a Cessna-only pilot. I had no idea what Archer or Warrior
> was.

An interesting observation. Having trained exclusively in Piper
products, I know when I was a new pilot I had no idea what a "Skylane"
was, let alone a "Skymaster" or "Skywagon."

Yet, from a distance, they all look pretty much the same.

Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Cessna drivers often do not know what a Warrior, Archer or
>>Dakota might look like. Could be a single or a twin for all they know.
>
>
>> Most everyone knows what a Cherokee looks like. In my early flying
>>days, I was a Cessna-only pilot. I had no idea what Archer or Warrior
>>was.
>
>
> An interesting observation. Having trained exclusively in Piper
> products, I know when I was a new pilot I had no idea what a "Skylane"
> was, let alone a "Skymaster" or "Skywagon."
>
> Yet, from a distance, they all look pretty much the same.
>
> Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...

Or eagles and turkeys, respectively. :-)


Matt

[Jay Honeck]

>> Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...
>
> Or eagles and turkeys, respectively. :-)

Ahem. That would be "femmes" and "studs", respectively...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>>>Around here we very rarely see cherokees. People just don't find them
>>>useful for mountain flying.
>>
>>
>> What, you guys don't have airports yet out West?
>
> Sure we got airports. Cherokees just ain't any good when there aren't
> airports.

Sounds like fun, but I suspect you're describing 1/10 of 1% of all flying.

Which isn't to say high wings don't have their good points. It's just
"off-airport usage" really isn't terribly relevant to the vast majority of
pilots.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...

Since there are experimentals, and spam cans coming in to OSH at the end of
July, AND there is no two way communications, that is what they do, right?
--
Jim in NC

[BUFF5200]

I cannot verify the truth of this, but the pilot who told
me this tail is crazy enough to do it.

He said he was flying a Stearman cross country, and called
approach with callsign "Boeing 12345" (Stearman having been
aquired by Boeing).

Approach calls "Boeing 12345 reduce to minimum approach speed"

So he hauls back to about 25 knots and the controller watches
his blip come to a halt in the middle of the pattern.

nooneimportant wrote:
> I fly Archers, arrows and seminoles. Normaly call up as archer so and so,
> or arrow so and so... and they call me back wtih the model nuber i gave
> them, but any radio traffic after that i become cherokee.... be it that Im
> in the archer or the arrow. Got really strange flying the seminole into
> SOCAL and was reported to another aircraft as a duchess...... (now i wasn't
> going to step that low and make my future radio calls as duchess mind you...
> felt it was a good time to simply become NOVEMBER such and such....)
>
> Flying the 172's I always just went as "Cessna" sure its teh same as you
> would hear on a 152 or 182, but in a tower environment the speeds aren't all
> that drastically different (now cruise is a different story!) and they all
> look similar from a distance. Centurion is different, as are the twin
> cessna's.... I've NEVER heard a citation call in as a cessna... they always
> called in as Citation Suchandsuch.
>
> Most of my xc flights now are IFR so I dont' really sweat it out to much
> unless they really butcher my number, or give me something unrealistic
> "N12345 climb one five thousand by yucca" I'll call back something like
> "CHEROKEE 12345 Unable 1-5-thousand" And when VFR will usually just call up
> as what I'm flying, unless another controller started calling me
> cherokee.... then i stick to it. Looks like a cherokee... same speed
> envelope as a cherokee..... only im an archer... go fig.
>
>
>
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>When I used to fly Cessna 152's and 172's, I'd always just say "Cessna
>>12345...". Now that I fly Piper Warriors, I began using "Piper
>>12345...", but then I realized no one else says just "Piper", they say
>>"Seneca 12345", or "Twin Comanche 12345...", so I began using the
>>callsign "Warrior 12345..." to fit in with the rest. This makes more
>>sense, considering the point of putting your aircraft type before your
>>tail number is to specify what you are. If you just say "Cessna", you
>>don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna. And
>>you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
>>instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
>>witness one.
>>
>>Anyways, so I begin using "Warior" instead of Piper. When I got my
>>instrument rating and started doing IFR stuff, I noticed no matter what
>>I use, ATC always addresses me as "Cherokee 12345". Once I even tried
>>to get an IFR clearance that went something like this:
>>
>>Me: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the ground at LUK, IFR to HZY
>>
>>[45 seconds of silence]...
>>
>>Me [slower]: Clearance, Warroir 4458U on the grund at LUK, IFR to HZY
>>
>>Controller: Aircraft calling, say call sign again
>>
>>Me: 4...4...5...8...U
>>
>>controller: Cherokee 4458U you are cleared to....
>>
>>What I think happened here is that he misunderstood "Warrior" as me
>>saying "four" or something. When I file all I say for type is PA-28,
>>and to ATC guys a PA-28 is a Cherokee. So from that point on, I now use
>>Cherokee as my call sign, even though it says "Warrior III" on the
>>side, and nowhere in the POH or anywhere else does it have the word
>>"Cherokee". I know its not a big deal, but I was just wondering, what
>>do all the other Warrior people use?
>>
>
>
>

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>>Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...
>>
>>Or eagles and turkeys, respectively. :-)
>
>
> Ahem. That would be "femmes" and "studs", respectively...
>
> ;-)

Nah, high wings have broad shoulders and a narrow waist. Low wings have
rounded shoulders and wide hips. Now tell me again which is the stud? :-)


Matt

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...

Sometimes they do. Especially when something unusual like a Maule winds up in
the area.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[RST Engineering]

Right up until the time that you lose your first engine.

Jim


> Which isn't to say high wings don't have their good points. It's just
> "off-airport usage" really isn't terribly relevant to the vast majority of
> pilots.
>

[Jay Honeck]

>> Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...
>
> Since there are experimentals, and spam cans coming in to OSH at the end
> of
> July, AND there is no two way communications, that is what they do, right?

Actually, I'm always deeply impressed with how accurately the controllers
refer to all the different aircraft BY NAME.

They aren't always 100% correct -- but they're waaaaay better than average.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[aaronw]

On 4 Jun 2005 14:52:07 -0700, "buttman" > wrote:

> And
>you'd think with all the 172s in existance I'd come across a single
>instance of a pilot using "Skyhawk" in their call sign, but I've yet to
>witness one.

I fly a 172, and always call myself 'Skyhawk'. I'm surprised that
you've really never heard someone call themselves that...

Although on occasion, even though I *always* call myself Skyhawk (my
instructor thumped me for 'Cessna' once) I will come across a
controller who after the inital exchange of info to get advisories
will say '194SP, say type aircraft', even though he got it 30 seconds
ago. I understand why, it's just amusing to me.

aw

[Mike Rapoport]

Right

http://www.aeronautics.ru/a/an225001.jpg

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:Fp5pe.20678$_o.18457@attbi_s71...
>>> Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...
>>
>> Or eagles and turkeys, respectively. :-)
>
> Ahem. That would be "femmes" and "studs", respectively...
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Right up until the time that you lose your first engine.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>>Which isn't to say high wings don't have their good points. It's just
>>"off-airport usage" really isn't terribly relevant to the vast majority of
>>pilots.
>>
>
>
>

'specially when you don't have a second engine. :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Mike Rapoport wrote:

> Right
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/a/an225001.jpg
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:Fp5pe.20678$_o.18457@attbi_s71...
>
>>>>Maybe ATC should just call us all "high wings" and "low wings"...
>>>
>>>Or eagles and turkeys, respectively. :-)
>>
>>Ahem. That would be "femmes" and "studs", respectively...

Priceless, Mike, priceless... :-)


Matt

[John]

Chip Jones wrote:

> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > "Newps" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > They being center guys. 20 knots to a tower controller is trivial.
> > >
> >
> > Center guys had the designators changed? Why would they do that?
> >
> >
>
> I thought it was the bloody FRENCH who had the type designators changed, via
> ICAO. Right after they got finished butchering our WX format. Apparently,
> they don't appreciate the difference between an MD80 and an MD88 (both are
> coded MD80), but they do care about the difference between the A320 and
> A321...

MD88 has its own type designator according to
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html

[John]

"Brien K. Meehan" wrote:

> buttman wrote:
> > If you just say "Cessna", you
> > don't know if its a Citation X, or a 140, just that it's a Cessna.
>
> Citation drivers won't let you make that mistake - they'll make darned
> sure you know it's a Citation.
>
> The same is true for everyone driving any Cessna larger than a Skylane.
> The only ones calling themselves "Cessna" are flying model numbers
> lower than 190.

I once had an old timer flight instructor. One day he got to fly one of
his ex-student's Citations, his first time in a jet. He had ball flying
that jet and soon it was time to go back home. He called up the tower (a
busy Class D) and called in "Cessna 12345 9 miles east, landing,
information Charlie". A few minutes later the controller called back, her
voice a few octaves higher and said, "Cessna 12345 are you a CITATON?"
The controllers recognized his deep voice and were used to that voice
flying around in the pistons. Guess you had to be there, but it was good
for a chuckle for all after he landed.

[Doug]

Somehow this has become a "thing" with ATC. All PA28's are Cherokees.
It is because someone got uptight about all the different Pipers that
were PA28's (the ICAO Identifier), but yet named differently. You use
the ICAO 4 letter ID (all aircraft have one, and only ONE), on your
flight plan, BTW. But it seems that one ICAO identifier can encompass
many different aircraft names. Thus the confusion. The Cherokee one
seems to be the one ATC keys in on. Must be the one they use in their
training or something.