Suggested Lunch Stops "Near" Washington, D.C.?

[Jay Honeck]

Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
area, over the top of the Great Lakes.

It ought to be a beautiful trip!

This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of the
west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my ducks in a
row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively) short flight into
Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday work, or do I have to
wait till Friday?)

ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for stopping --
but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food? I've picked a
few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to suggestions:

1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles

Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
better stop?

Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ, which
implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into Dulles.
Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk code and have
my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the point where I
enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?

Thanks for your help!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
> we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
> spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
> for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
> area, over the top of the Great Lakes.
>
> It ought to be a beautiful trip!
>
> This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of the
> west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my ducks in a
> row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively) short flight into
> Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday work, or do I have to
> wait till Friday?)
>
> ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for stopping --
> but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food? I've picked a
> few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to suggestions:
>
> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>
> Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
> better stop?
>
> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ, which
> implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into Dulles.
> Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk code and have
> my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the point where I
> enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>
> Thanks for your help!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Robert Barker]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:3%Loe.18960$_o.12925@attbi_s71...
> Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
> we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
> spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
> for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
> area, over the top of the Great Lakes.
>
> It ought to be a beautiful trip!
>
> This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of
the
> west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my ducks in
a
> row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively) short flight
into
> Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday work, or do I have
to
> wait till Friday?)
>
> ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for
stopping --
> but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food? I've picked a
> few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to suggestions:
>
> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>
> Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
> better stop?
>
> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ,
which
> implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into Dulles.
> Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk code and
have
> my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the point where I
> enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>
> Thanks for your help!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

The Smithsonian has some really nice places to eat. You can probably land
in that big, long grassy area in front of the place... ;-)

[vincent p. norris]

Jay, you might want to consider Altoona, PA (AOO). It may be a bit
east of your route but there's an AFSS there, and a pretty good
restaurant in the terminal building.

vince norris

[Jase Vanover]

Been lurking and understand you're going to check out the new museum at
Dulles...

I lived within about a 10 minute drive of Dulles up until a year ago, and
managed to get to the museum before being transferred back to Canada. It's
a helluva place to go see airplanes. I have a ton of pictures (no website
to post them on). You'll have a great time checking out both the warbirds
and civilian planes they have in their collection.

I expect, and know, that there'll be an apres trip posting, and am looking
forward to your comments.

Jase.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:3%Loe.18960$_o.12925@attbi_s71...
> Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
> we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
> spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
> for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
> area, over the top of the Great Lakes.
>
> It ought to be a beautiful trip!
>
> This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of
> the west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my
> ducks in a row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively)
> short flight into Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday
> work, or do I have to wait till Friday?)
>
> ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for
> stopping -- but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food?
> I've picked a few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to
> suggestions:
>
> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>
> Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
> better stop?
>
> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ,
> which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into
> Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk
> code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the
> point where I enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>
> Thanks for your help!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[dave]

Jay,
Try Baybridge, W29. It's really not out of the way for you. There's a
nice seafood restaurant within walking distance of the airport. It's
got great views of Chesapeake Bay from the outside dining area. Sorry
I can't remember the name of the restaurant. Maybe someone else from
the group can give Jay a more up to date pirep on the place. I was last
there about 5 years ago.

Have a safe trip.

Dave
68 7ECA

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
> we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
> spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
> for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
> area, over the top of the Great Lakes.
>
> It ought to be a beautiful trip!
>
> This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of the
> west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my ducks in a
> row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively) short flight into
> Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday work, or do I have to
> wait till Friday?)
>
> ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for stopping --
> but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food? I've picked a
> few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to suggestions:
>
> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>
> Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
> better stop?
>
> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ, which
> implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into Dulles.
> Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk code and have
> my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the point where I
> enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>
> Thanks for your help!

[Michelle P]

Jay,
when it is not fly-in day FDK has a nice restaurant.
Michelle

vincent p. norris wrote:

>Jay, you might want to consider Altoona, PA (AOO). It may be a bit
>east of your route but there's an AFSS there, and a pretty good
>restaurant in the terminal building.
>
>vince norris
>
>

[Margy]

dave wrote:
> Jay,
> Try Baybridge, W29. It's really not out of the way for you. There's a
> nice seafood restaurant within walking distance of the airport. It's
> got great views of Chesapeake Bay from the outside dining area. Sorry
> I can't remember the name of the restaurant. Maybe someone else from
> the group can give Jay a more up to date pirep on the place. I was last
> there about 5 years ago.
>
> Have a safe trip.
>
> Dave
> 68 7ECA


Hmmm, last I checked Iowa was West of Dulles and Bay Bridge was East.
Besides, if I was going out that way I'd stop at Kentmore and go over to
the Marina for crab cakes.

Margy
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather
>> permitting, we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door
>> County, WI, spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac
>> Island on Thursday for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct
>> to the Washington, D.C. area, over the top of the Great Lakes.
>>
>> It ought to be a beautiful trip!
>>
>> This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead
>> of the west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of
>> my ducks in a row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a
>> (relatively) short flight into Dulles from there. (Margy, will
>> arriving on Thursday work, or do I have to wait till Friday?)
>>
>> ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for
>> stopping -- but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best
>> food? I've picked a few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm
>> open to suggestions:
>>
>> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
>> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
>> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>>
>> Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's
>> a better stop?
>>
>> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff.
>> One fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the
>> ADIZ, which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the
>> ADIZ into Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a
>> discrete squawk code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly
>> GPS direct from the point where I enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>>
>> Thanks for your help!

[Mike Beede]

In article >,
"Robert Barker" > wrote:

> The Smithsonian has some really nice places to eat. You can probably land
> in that big, long grassy area in front of the place... ;-)

My experience was that it has some really mediocre places to eat.
I regard eating at the Smithsonian as "refueling," and do it
only to avoid spending time going someplace else.

Anyone been to the restoration facility for the Air and Space
museum lately? I haven't been for ten years and still
remember it as a really fine tour.

Mike Beede

[RST Engineering]

You had to quote fifty lines of text for a two line answer?

Do you understand "snip"???

Jim


"Robert Barker"

[John T]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:3%Loe.18960$_o.12925@attbi_s71
>
> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles

I seem to recall somebody once talking about the food at Bedford, but I've
never been. Here's a (dated) link talking about the restaurant at KMRB:
http://archives.his.com/dcpilots-l/2003-August/msg00272.html

I don't recall anything about KCBE. Like Michelle, I think the restaurant
at Frederick is OK and is just a short hop away.

> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the
> ADIZ, which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the
> ADIZ into Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a
> discrete squawk code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I
> fly GPS direct from the point where I enter the ADIZ straight into
> Dulles?

I haven't heard of them called "VOR gateways", but I have heard of them as
"VFR gates". :) Basically, they're a set of intersections for traffic
to/from the ADIZ from various points of the the compass rose. I fly from
KJYO and haven't had any problems with flight plans to/from MRB (the VOR
about four miles from the field), Winchester (KOKV) or Frederick (FDK). The
real reason for these intersections is so the correct controller position at
Potomac TRACON gets your P-strip. If you're coming from the North, I'd say
start with Frederick.

VFR in the ADIZ is still VFR - especially on busy VMC days. On slower days,
the ADIZ controller will be on a radar station and may provide unsolicited
radar services as a bonus, but plan for "own navigation".

The answer to "direct to KIAD from ADIZ point of entry" depends entirely on
your point of entry. Entering the ADIZ from the North and points
West-to-South should provide no problem. Try that from points East, though
and you'll find Atlas painted red-red-green (or painted with fire-control
radar). :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Ron Natalie]

Jase Vanover wrote:
> Been lurking and understand you're going to check out the new museum at
> Dulles...
>
Not only is Jay going to check out the museum, he's going to be on
exhibit there.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Been lurking and understand you're going to check out the new museum at
>> Dulles...
>>
> Not only is Jay going to check out the museum, he's going to be on
> exhibit there.

And my family won't let me forget it.

"First you were a fossil...now you're a museum piece!"

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Arnold Sten]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
> we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
> spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
> for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
> area, over the top of the Great Lakes.
>
> It ought to be a beautiful trip!
>
> This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of the
> west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my ducks in a
> row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively) short flight into
> Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday work, or do I have to
> wait till Friday?)
>
> ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for stopping --
> but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food? I've picked a
> few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to suggestions:
>
> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>
> Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
> better stop?
>
> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ, which
> implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into Dulles.
> Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk code and have
> my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the point where I
> enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>
> Thanks for your help!
Good morning, Jay,

You might want to consider KCXY, which is on the west side of the
Susquehanna River in Harrisburg (inside the Harrisburg TRSA). Easy in
and out towered airport that's about 80 NM north of Dulles. If you stop
there around lunch time, I'll come by, pick you up and take you to
lunch. If your interested, remove the obvious from my email and contact
me directly.

Arnold Sten

[Jay Honeck]

> The answer to "direct to KIAD from ADIZ point of entry" depends entirely
> on your point of entry. Entering the ADIZ from the North and points
> West-to-South should provide no problem. Try that from points East,
> though and you'll find Atlas painted red-red-green (or painted with
> fire-control radar). :)

The bad thing is, my teenage son is MOST excited about the chance of seeing
an F-16 "up close"... something I desperately hope to avoid.

;-)

Of course, this is the same kid who wants to bring a bail of hay, buy some
bib overalls, and start chewing tobacco for our day on display, just so we
don't disappoint everyone's expectations of what an Iowan Family should look
like!

And my 11 year-old daughter is no better. Last night we were flying home
from a "$100 pie ala mode" at sunset. It was absolutely beautiful, and we
were all in quiet reverie, hovering effortlessly thousands of feet over the
darkening landscape, when her voice came over the intercom: "Dad? Do I
have to lie to everyone at the museum about how flying is fun after the
first nine years?"

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Denny]

Don't know nuttin about DC.. I have been known to fly this Great Lakes
area... Your direct route will be across Canada (A foreign nation,
legally - and a bit strange, factually) but I digress - anyway,
"theoretically" you have to file an International Flight Plan to enter
and leave foreign airspace (unlike the old days where we totally
ignored such niceties).. Now, I wouldn't swear on a stack of bibles
that since 9/11 I have not accidently clipped a corner of Ontario on
occasion (koff) on my way to Cleveland but I haven't merrily flown the
entire E-W length of Ontario - as I used to do - without bothering to
talk to the 'authorities'...

So, the question in my mind is if you are planning a GPS direct from
Mackinac to DC area, what are you planning to do about the
international portion of your flight? I suggest giving your local FSDO
a call and see if simply filing a flight plan will cover your butt for
the International portion of the trip...
Even if it does (which I doubt) you still have the issue of re-entering
the USA if you are forced to land in Canada for any reason - weather -
sickness - engine - USA airspace is suddenly closed - etc... Canadian
authorities will be sweet as pie, but the a**holes on our side of the
border seem to get their rocks off harassing american citizens... A
young fella, who worked for me at the the time, took his 17 year old
girlfriend - blond, blue eyed, picture pretty, sweet as pie, all
american girl - on a tour of Ontario over the 4th of July weekend...
When they turned up at Port Huron to get home, guess what - she didn't
have a passport or birth certificate with her, they refused to let her
in - period! It took seven hours of phone calls to The Father ->
Michigan Senator -> US Senator -> Chairman of the Oversight Committee
of US Customs -> who phoned and requested the Customs Officer to let
her in - and finally had to resort to threats to get him to comply...
If it hadn't been that the Father was a direct acquaintance of a State
Senator (and had his home phone number on a holiday night) who was a
personal friend of a US Senator (ditto), I don't know how many days it
would have taken to get her re-entry into the USA... So, do your
homework..

Suggestion: From Mackinac fly GPS South to a point 5 miles East of
Detroit City Airport (DET), air file a flight plan to fly VOR direct
Windsor (YQG) direct Sandusky (SKY), and once back in USA airspace
cancel the flight plan... You are in Canadian airspace for about 20
minutes... Lots of planes coming and going that route... This is the
route I flew when I accidently clipped Canadian airspace (ahem)...

The alternate plan is to fly to the point just East of Detroit CIty
Airport, then follow the international border down the centerline of
the Detroit River, down low to stay out of the Detroit B air space,
then follow the international border across Lake Erie to Ohio and then
to DC... Low hassle, nice view in good weather...

cheers ... denny

[Maule Driver]

Margy wrote:

> Hmmm, last I checked Iowa was West of Dulles and Bay Bridge was East.
> Besides, if I was going out that way I'd stop at Kentmore and go over to
> the Marina for crab cakes.
>
Yes, Kentmorr (3W3). An excellent grass strip with residences. Walk to
the water and left down the street one block to the Marina. Best
seafood stop within 100 miles.

3W# has its own ADIZ procedure.

Would definitely recommend it for a taste of Blue Crabs. The crab cakes
*are* great but remember that's the dish to avoid at most crab places
(advice from a blue crab expert/wholesaler/retailer)

That's where I'd go.

[Jay Honeck]

> So, the question in my mind is if you are planning a GPS direct from
> Mackinac to DC area, what are you planning to do about the
> international portion of your flight?

Thanks for the heads up, Denny.

IF that whole portion of the flight comes together (the weather is so often
terrible up that way that I will be more surprised than anyone if this
works) I was originally planning on flying GPS direct, as you suggest.

The more I looked at the over-water portions of that trip, the more I
realized that flying straight down the middle of Michigan was, perhaps, the
smart way to go, and then "hang a left" at Detroit...

I haven't looked in any great detail yet, but I *think* I can stay out of
Canadian airspace if I do it that way, no?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> You might want to consider KCXY, which is on the west side of the
> Susquehanna River in Harrisburg (inside the Harrisburg TRSA). Easy in and
> out towered airport that's about 80 NM north of Dulles. If you stop there
> around lunch time, I'll come by, pick you up and take you to lunch.

Thanks for the kind offer, Arnold. Right now, however, the weather picture
is looking so dicey -- and we've got so many variables between school, the
inn, the plane, etc. -- that I can't say where I'll be at any particular
time or day!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Denny]

Well, yes and no.. Depends on what you mean by "down the middle of
Michigan" (where's Bill when you need him to define a word, or two)...

If you are passing East of the Detroit B, then it is as I suggested,fly
the Sunrise side of the state down nearly to DET, then down low under
the B, follow the center of the Detroit river (watch for vfr traffic
here), and out across the West end of Lake Erie... This is scenic if
the Wx is nice - downtown Detroit, Belle Isle, Grosse Isle, freighters,
pleasure boats, nuclear power plants, etc. - and you can truck along
just offshore to Ohio...

If you are going West of the Detroit B, then you aim to split the
difference between Ann Arbor and Willow Run airports - there is about a
mile of uncontrolled airspace between the two airport traffic areas
where you don't have to talk to them - easier than Duck soup with a
moving map GPS... Then you angle East, about a 150 deg. heading
initially - so that you stay out of the Detroit B - then just North of
Toledo's airspace you cut across the end of Lake Erie to the Ohio shore
(lots of tall towers in the shore areas so be alert if you are down
low), pass to the South of the Nuclear Plant just before Port Clinton,
and go merrily on your way - watching out for Cleveland, Akron,
etc...... None of this is hard, just be aware of controlled
airspace...

You really need a Detroit Terminal Chart to navigate the Detroit B,
unless ATC is on Valium and handing out clearances through the B to GA
traffic (rare)... This is why I use the Howie Keefe Air Chart
system... That way when I get a wild hair to go somewhere I just pull
out the chart bag and all the charts I need are there...

Yes, there is convective predicted for Thursday for this part of
Michigan... Anyway, if you pass near Saginaw - Browne Airport (KHYX)
Wave at Fat Albert, he'll be snoozing in the hangar.... I'll be slavng
at my office in Hemlock, some 25 miles West of there...

If you have any problems while in Michigan give me a jingle..
989-583-2353

Denny

[John T]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Of course, this is the same kid who wants to bring a bail of hay, buy
> some bib overalls, and start chewing tobacco for our day on display,
> just so we don't disappoint everyone's expectations of what an Iowan
> Family should look like!

I know the feeling. Of course, having an Southern accent can be useful
sometimes, too. :)

I'm hoping to make it out to Udvar-Hazy sometime Saturday. Anybody else
looking to be there (either as guest or participant)?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
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[Helen Woods]

We have a ton of good restraunts in the DC area. Kentmore, which was
previously mentioned, is a good spot if the grass runway isn't soggy.
Other yummy places include Frederick MD and Sky Bryce (ski lodge) VA on
the west side and a number of excellent seafood places on the Eastern
Shore. Personally, if I were you coming from as far away as you, I'd do
one of the Eastern Shore places to enjoy the local seafood. Kentmore is
good, so is Georgetown although its not waterfront, and so is Cambridge
although it lacks both the waterfront and the atmosphere. (Cambridge is
known for their crab omelets as well as its crabcakes.)

Probably the best stop though that you could do while you are in the
area is Tangier Island. That's to the south east just on the other side
of the Washington sectional out in the middle of the Bay. It's a true
Chesapeake Bay waterman's community which supplements its income by
feeding pilots and other tourists some of the most scrumptious home
cooked seafood imaginable.

Here's a link for the island.
http://www.tangierisland-va.com/

The whole island is walkable in a couple of hours or you can rent bikes
or catch a golf cart ride around town. It's a true Chesapeake Bay
experience. My favorite restraunt is the Channel Marker, with very
reasonable prices for the incredible quality of food. Try the crab
salad if they have it and if not, the crab cakes or softcrabs.

Tangier and Georgetown are both open for dinner as well. Tangier lacks
runway lights though so plan accordingly.

More ideas and details: http://www.100dollarhamburger.com/

The previously posted ADIZ explanation was a good post. Drop me a line
though if you still have any questions about that.

Tailwinds!
Helen

[Robert M. Gary]

I was there last week, its great.

-Roebrt

[Steve S]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:60Yoe.19708$_o.9977@attbi_s71...
\> I haven't looked in any great detail yet, but I *think* I can stay out of
> Canadian airspace if I do it that way, no?
> --
>

You don't have to stay out of canadian airspace. You can transit the
airspace, you just can't land there without dealing with
customs/immigration.

Steve S

[Steve S]

> Jay Honeck wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
>> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ,
>> which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into
>> Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk
>> code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from
>> the point where I enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
> Good morning, Jay,


There are gateways into the ADIZ though they aren't published. I believe
that EMI, BELAY and GOLDA to the north and east are 3 of them. You can call
FSS and they can give them to you when you file. There are no set "routes"
as far as I know.

Once you get your squawk (note: they won't "clear" you into the ADIZ so
don't ask) you may or may not be cleared direct, depends on when you hit the
Class B, where in the Class B you enter and what arrival/departure routes
they're using. If you're destination was outside the Class B (under it) you
would usually be cleared direct.

HTH

Steve S

[Margy]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>Been lurking and understand you're going to check out the new museum at
>>>Dulles...
>>>
>>
>>Not only is Jay going to check out the museum, he's going to be on
>>exhibit there.
>
>
> And my family won't let me forget it.
>
> "First you were a fossil...now you're a museum piece!"
>
> ;-)
We can put the kids on display too :-)

[Margy]

Helen Woods wrote:

>
> Probably the best stop though that you could do while you are in the
> area is Tangier Island. That's to the south east just on the other side
> of the Washington sectional out in the middle of the Bay. It's a true
> Chesapeake Bay waterman's community which supplements its income by
> feeding pilots and other tourists some of the most scrumptious home
> cooked seafood imaginable.
>
> Here's a link for the island.
> http://www.tangierisland-va.com/
>
> The whole island is walkable in a couple of hours or you can rent bikes
> or catch a golf cart ride around town. It's a true Chesapeake Bay
> experience. My favorite restraunt is the Channel Marker, with very
> reasonable prices for the incredible quality of food. Try the crab
> salad if they have it and if not, the crab cakes or softcrabs.
>Jeez, Helen,

Don't send him to Tangier, he'll never leave!! Seriously Jay, Tangier
would be a great place for SUNDAY!

[Margy]

John T wrote:
>
>
> I'm hoping to make it out to Udvar-Hazy sometime Saturday. Anybody else
> looking to be there (either as guest or participant)?
>

Ron and I will be on the ramp all day long.

Margy

[Jay Honeck]

> Don't send him to Tangier, he'll never leave!! Seriously Jay, Tangier
> would be a great place for SUNDAY!

Thanks. Better food elsewhere notwithstanding, it looks like Thursday (or
Friday, if weather intercedes) we'll be stopping at AOPA's home in
Frederick, MD for lunch before busting into the ADIZ.

A friend who works at AOPA has offered to give us a tour, and who can argue
with that?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[aaronw]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:13:39 -0400, "John T" > wrote:

>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:3%Loe.18960$_o.12925@attbi_s71
>>
>> 1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
>> 2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
>> 3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles
>
>I seem to recall somebody once talking about the food at Bedford, but I've
>never been. Here's a (dated) link talking about the restaurant at KMRB:
>http://archives.his.com/dcpilots-l/2003-August/msg00272.html

As the referenced person in the post, I'll throw in that when I got to
the MRB restaurant on that day, it was closed, even though I called
somewhat in advance (earlier that week?) to check.

I don't know if it's just me and this area and my luck, but all of the
airfield restaurants for me are hit and miss as far as finding them
open.

Cumberland is I think actually very close to the actual town of
Cumberland, MD, which is kind of tourist-trappy, so you'll probably
find stuff in town easily enough. Never been to Bedford myself,
though.

>> Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
>> fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the
>> ADIZ, which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the
>> ADIZ into Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a
>> discrete squawk code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I
>> fly GPS direct from the point where I enter the ADIZ straight into
>> Dulles?

I think everyone else already answered this, but ATC doesn't really
care exactly where you enter. They only need an 'entry point' to get
your strip to the right sector - Chesapeake (BWI), Mount
Vernon(DCA/ADW), or Shenandoah (IAD). Once it gets to the right
sector, just check out the class B frequences on your TAC and call the
right one - if you have the wrong one they'll just tell you who to
contact. As long as you're on the right 'end' of the Class B, they
don't care one whit. But do try to fly (mostly) direct once entering
to your landing, you will probably get a call if you go completely the
wrong way. Outside the B, inside the ADIZ, (mostly) free flight.
Inside the B, just like any othe B anywhere else.

I unfortunately won't be able to be in town for this event - I had
previous plans for the weekend!

aw

[Denny]

You don't have to stay out of canadian airspace. You can transit the
airspace, you just can't land there without dealing with
customs/immigration
************************************************** ********************************************
Well Steve, I hate to be difficult and I realize you have good
intentions, but you are stating things that are ABSOLUTELY wrong and
will get a pilot busted, big time... You need to call 1-800-wx-brief
and listen to JULIET, my friend...
<Something Mr. Schaeffer neglected to do before touring DC in a C-150>

In posting to Jay I simply wanted to give him a heads up without
getting into fine technicalities, that Flight Service will/should
know... But, it looks like I need to at least give an outline here...

The Homeland Security briefing has changed from INDIA to JULIET...
JULIET has relaxed, considerably, the filing requirements, and has
totally cancelled the Enhanced B Security regs... So, according the the
current briefing, JULIET...

The outline:
If you are landing or taking off from outside of USA territory anytime
during the flight you must file an INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT PLAN - simple
to understand, ja? An absolute requirement - no if's, and's, or
but's....

If you are on a DOMESTIC flight and simply passing through Canadian or
Mexican airspace then there are several possibilities.. ("Domestic"
meaning that you take off from USA territory and land in USA territory,
without touching foreign soil anywhere along the way.)

1. You can file an International Flight Plan (discouraged if all you
are doing is passing through foreign airspace on a domestic flight as
it increases TRACON work load and it does NOT replace your requirement
to file either a domestic VFR/ADIZ, or an IFR Flight Plan, also...
Details to follow) Likely, once the briefer understands that you are
simply passing through foreign airspace without touching down, he will
decline to accept the International Flight Plan and ask you to file as
follows...

2. You can file a domestic IFR Flight Plan - which will cover both the
passing through foreign airspace (Canada and Mexico, only) and the ADIZ
requirements... The encouraged method - and a good reason to get the
rating...

3. You can file a domestic VFR Flight Plan plus an ADIZ Flight Plan
(required if you are not on an IFR Flight Plan)... Make sure the the
Flight Service Briefer understands that you are going to be passing in
and out of foreign airspace (this is where you definitely do a
telephone file and do not use DUATS, etc.)
The drill is not difficult... in essence;
A. You file an IFR FLIGHT PLAN but enter a VFR ALTITUDE (you don't have
to be IFR rated for this)
B. You file an ADIZ Flight Plan - with the briefer and you agreeing
upon the VOR entry/exit point(s) at the ADIZ
C. In the remarks section of the IFR Flight Plan you enter the comment
"ADIZ / xxx / AFSS
<where xxx is the Flight service station identifier - in my case it
would be the FSS at Lansing Michigan <LAN>, so my remarks would be
"ADIZ / LAN / AFSS")... This causes the computer at the center to
generate a strip for TRACON that gives the controllers along your route
a heads up that you are on a VFR/ADIZ flight....

There are a few more requirements, but the briefer at FSS will advise
you what to do, assign squawk codes, altitudes, etc... If for any
reason you are forced to land on foreign soil during the flight have
either a valid passport or a certified copy of your birth certificate
or you will NOT get back into the USA...

None of this is difficult, and it could have been a lot worse if not
for AOPA, EAA, and GA friendly elected officials reining in the the
jack booted, security thugs...

cheers ... denny

[Jay Honeck]

> In posting to Jay I simply wanted to give him a heads up without
> getting into fine technicalities, that Flight Service will/should
> know... But, it looks like I need to at least give an outline here...

<Big Snip>

Thanks for the primer, Denny. It looks like we'll be heading south, to St.
Louis, tonight, to take the kids to Six Flags, rather than go north on our
romantic "round the top o' the lakes" flight I originally planned, due to
the predicted crappy weather up that way.

But I'll be sure to use your advice later in the summer. We WILL be flying
to Mackinac Island again this year -- it's been too long -- and then down to
my sister's in Lansing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steve S]

Denny,

Thank you for elaborating. I didn't consider filing an ADIZ flight plan a
big deal as I do it when going to Key West or more recently to the DC area.
I was just pointing out that it is not terribly onerous to transit Canadian
airspace, there is no customer/Canpass to deal with. I would hope that
anyone taking a flight like this would check the regs and call FSS
themselves. I know I wouldn't trust my ticket to a faceless typer on Usenet
:-)

Regards,

Steve S

"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> You don't have to stay out of canadian airspace. You can transit the
> airspace, you just can't land there without dealing with
> customs/immigration
> ************************************************** ********************************************
> Well Steve, I hate to be difficult and I realize you have good
> intentions, but you are stating things that are ABSOLUTELY wrong and
> will get a pilot busted, big time... You need to call 1-800-wx-brief
> and listen to JULIET, my friend...
> <Something Mr. Schaeffer neglected to do before touring DC in a C-150>
>
> In posting to Jay I simply wanted to give him a heads up without
> getting into fine technicalities, that Flight Service will/should
> know... But, it looks like I need to at least give an outline here...
>
> The Homeland Security briefing has changed from INDIA to JULIET...
> JULIET has relaxed, considerably, the filing requirements, and has
> totally cancelled the Enhanced B Security regs... So, according the the
> current briefing, JULIET...
>
> The outline:
> If you are landing or taking off from outside of USA territory anytime
> during the flight you must file an INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT PLAN - simple
> to understand, ja? An absolute requirement - no if's, and's, or
> but's....
>
> If you are on a DOMESTIC flight and simply passing through Canadian or
> Mexican airspace then there are several possibilities.. ("Domestic"
> meaning that you take off from USA territory and land in USA territory,
> without touching foreign soil anywhere along the way.)
>
> 1. You can file an International Flight Plan (discouraged if all you
> are doing is passing through foreign airspace on a domestic flight as
> it increases TRACON work load and it does NOT replace your requirement
> to file either a domestic VFR/ADIZ, or an IFR Flight Plan, also...
> Details to follow) Likely, once the briefer understands that you are
> simply passing through foreign airspace without touching down, he will
> decline to accept the International Flight Plan and ask you to file as
> follows...
>
> 2. You can file a domestic IFR Flight Plan - which will cover both the
> passing through foreign airspace (Canada and Mexico, only) and the ADIZ
> requirements... The encouraged method - and a good reason to get the
> rating...
>
> 3. You can file a domestic VFR Flight Plan plus an ADIZ Flight Plan
> (required if you are not on an IFR Flight Plan)... Make sure the the
> Flight Service Briefer understands that you are going to be passing in
> and out of foreign airspace (this is where you definitely do a
> telephone file and do not use DUATS, etc.)
> The drill is not difficult... in essence;
> A. You file an IFR FLIGHT PLAN but enter a VFR ALTITUDE (you don't have
> to be IFR rated for this)
> B. You file an ADIZ Flight Plan - with the briefer and you agreeing
> upon the VOR entry/exit point(s) at the ADIZ
> C. In the remarks section of the IFR Flight Plan you enter the comment
> "ADIZ / xxx / AFSS
> <where xxx is the Flight service station identifier - in my case it
> would be the FSS at Lansing Michigan <LAN>, so my remarks would be
> "ADIZ / LAN / AFSS")... This causes the computer at the center to
> generate a strip for TRACON that gives the controllers along your route
> a heads up that you are on a VFR/ADIZ flight....
>
> There are a few more requirements, but the briefer at FSS will advise
> you what to do, assign squawk codes, altitudes, etc... If for any
> reason you are forced to land on foreign soil during the flight have
> either a valid passport or a certified copy of your birth certificate
> or you will NOT get back into the USA...
>
> None of this is difficult, and it could have been a lot worse if not
> for AOPA, EAA, and GA friendly elected officials reining in the the
> jack booted, security thugs...
>
> cheers ... denny
>

[Dave Butler]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I was there last week, its great.
>
> -Roebrt

That'd be interesting, Roebrt, if I had any clue which posting you were replying
to. I think your snippage is a little overzealous. Please include a little
context. Thanks.