Aleutian Island airports?

[Cub Driver]

What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[John Gaquin]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message

> What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians?

I've only been as far west as Dutch, but I think I recall some talk of a
field on Adak. It was all 30 years ago. Remember also, what is defined as
an airport in the Aleutians may be pretty rudimentary.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
>military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
>aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?

PATU, Casco Cove CGS, is listed as joint use. It's at 173 degrees EAST.

mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK' and longitude < -150 order by longitude;
+------+----------------+---------+----------------+---------+-------+---------+------------------+-------------------+-------------+------------+-----------+----------------+----------+-----------+------+
| id | datasource_key | type | name | address | state | country | latitude | longitude | declination | datasource | elevation | main_frequency | ispublic | chart_map | tpa |
+------+----------------+---------+----------------+---------+-------+---------+------------------+-------------------+-------------+------------+-----------+----------------+----------+-----------+------+
| PASY | US85050 | AIRPORT | EARECKSON AS | | AK | US | 52.712275 | -174.11362 | -1.65 | 2 | 98 | | 1 | 0 | NULL |
| SYA | 50699.*A | AIRPORT | EARECKSON AS | SHEMYA | AK | US | 52.712275 | -174.113619444444 | -3 | 1 | 97 | 127.200 | 0 | 0 | NULL |
| PATU | US00356 | AIRPORT | CASCO COVE CGS | | AK | US | 52.828356 | -173.180306 | -1.14 | 2 | 40 | | 1 | 0 | NULL |
| ATU | 50046.*A | AIRPORT | CASCO COVE CGS | ATTU | AK | US | 52.8283555555556 | -173.180305555556 | -3 | 1 | 40 | 122.900 | 0 | 0 | NULL |
+------+----------------+---------+----------------+---------+-------+---------+------------------+-------------------+-------------+------------+-----------+----------------+----------+-----------+------+
4 rows in set (0.26 sec)



--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"An NT server can be run by an idiot, and usually is." -- Tom Holub, a.h.b-o-i

[Matt Barrow]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
> military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
> aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?
>

Sidewinder up the wazoo! :~(

Looks like the westernmost _civil_ airport (not seaplane base) is Atka.

[Matt Barrow]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, said:
> >What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
> >military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
> >aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?
>
> PATU, Casco Cove CGS, is listed as joint use. It's at 173 degrees EAST.
>
> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK' and
longitude < -150 order by longitude;
>

Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very nice,
modern airport.
http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html

[Matt Barrow]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
>
> > What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians?
>
> I've only been as far west as Dutch, but I think I recall some talk of a
> field on Adak. It was all 30 years ago. Remember also, what is defined
as
> an airport in the Aleutians may be pretty rudimentary.
>
A very nice one. http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Matt Barrow" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>> In a previous article, said:
>> >What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
>> >military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
>> >aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?
>>
>> PATU, Casco Cove CGS, is listed as joint use. It's at 173 degrees EAST.
>>
>> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK' and
>longitude < -150 order by longitude;
>>
>
>Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very nice,
>modern airport.
>http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html

-173 is further west than -176.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I forsee one of those "open your wallet and repeat after me,
_help yourself_" moments in your local friendly workshop.
-- Tanuki

[S Narayan]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Matt Barrow" > said:
>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>> In a previous article, said:
>>> >What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
>>> >military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
>>> >aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?
>>>
>>> PATU, Casco Cove CGS, is listed as joint use. It's at 173 degrees EAST.
>>>
>>> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK'
>>> and
>>longitude < -150 order by longitude;
>>>
>>
>>Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very nice,
>>modern airport.
>>http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html
>
> -173 is further west than -176.
>

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Assuming -180 (W) = +180 (E) =
International date line.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "S Narayan" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>>> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK'
>>>> and
>>>longitude < -150 order by longitude;
>>>>
>>>
>>>Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very nice,
>>>modern airport.
>>>http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html
>>
>> -173 is further west than -176.
>>
>
>How did you arrive at that conclusion? Assuming -180 (W) = +180 (E) =
>International date line.

Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W is
positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.

However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to get
to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can
handle.

[S Narayan]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
> said:
>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK'
>>>>> and
>>>>longitude < -150 order by longitude;
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very
>>>>nice,
>>>>modern airport.
>>>>http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html
>>>
>>> -173 is further west than -176.
>>>
>>
>>How did you arrive at that conclusion? Assuming -180 (W) = +180 (E) =
>>International date line.
>
> Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
> Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W is
> positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>
> However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to get
> to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.

By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and
+ve longitudes east of Greenwich. OK, let's forget that for the time being.

Taking your example of Adak at -176 and Casco Cove is -173 ---- you consider
Casco WEST of Adak. Using this convention let's take a simple example and
not get confused with the date line.
San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8. Using above
convention, would you say Reno is west of San Francisco? How about if we
designate SF at 122.4 and Reno at 119.8 (in your +ve coordinate system). To
go to Reno would you go West? A drink in the Pacific ocean is what I see
happening.

Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which
is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original location
(but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "S Narayan" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>> Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
>> Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W is
>> positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>>
>> However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to get
>> to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.
>By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and
>+ve longitudes east of Greenwich. OK, let's forget that for the time being.

I use a different convention.

>Taking your example of Adak at -176 and Casco Cove is -173 ---- you consider

No, Adak is at +176 and Casco Cove is at -173.

>Casco WEST of Adak. Using this convention let's take a simple example and

It is. Look at a map.

>San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8. Using above

No, San Francisco is at +122.4 and Reno is at +119.

>Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which
>is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original location
>(but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.

Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. Look at a map.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do this."
- Military and Corporate Logic

[Matt Barrow]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Matt Barrow" > said:
> >"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> In a previous article, said:
> >> >What's the farthest west civilian airport in the Aleutians? I see
> >> >military airports on Shemya and Attu: what happens if a civilian
> >> >aircraft comes along and politely asks to join the traffic pattern?
> >>
> >> PATU, Casco Cove CGS, is listed as joint use. It's at 173 degrees
EAST.
> >>
> >> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state = 'AK'
and
> >longitude < -150 order by longitude;
> >>
> >
> >Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very nice,
> >modern airport.
> >http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html
>
> -173 is further west than -176.

Yes, it's this side of the date line...but it's strictly a civil airport.

[Matt Barrow]

"S Narayan" > wrote in message
news:1118356040.8dd8c102a9d462d88dbda370d5d84856@t eranews...
>
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
> > said:
> >>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>> mysql> select * from waypoint where type = 'AIRPORT' and state =
'AK'
> >>>>> and
> >>>>longitude < -150 order by longitude;
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Adak is at long -176.6460306, is open to the public and has a very
> >>>>nice,
> >>>>modern airport.
> >>>>http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html
> >>>
> >>> -173 is further west than -176.
> >>>
> >>
> >>How did you arrive at that conclusion? Assuming -180 (W) = +180 (E) =
> >>International date line.
> >
> > Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
> > Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W
is
> > positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
> >
> > However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to
get
> > to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.
>
> By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and
> +ve longitudes east of Greenwich. OK, let's forget that for the time
being.
>
> Taking your example of Adak at -176 and Casco Cove is -173 ---- you
consider
> Casco WEST of Adak. Using this convention let's take a simple example and
> not get confused with the date line.
> San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8. Using above
> convention, would you say Reno is west of San Francisco? How about if we
> designate SF at 122.4 and Reno at 119.8 (in your +ve coordinate system).
To
> go to Reno would you go West? A drink in the Pacific ocean is what I see
> happening.
>
> Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which
> is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original
location
> (but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.
>
Adak is EAST of the IDL, Casco is WEST of it.

My point was that Adak is a civil airport and that was the question; the
civil airport furthest WEST.

[Scott Skylane]

S Narayan wrote:

/snip/
> Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which
> is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original location
> (but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.
>
>

Tell me you are not a pilot. Please.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Dave S]

Here is a map :)

http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/fuelroute/1/ADK-ATU

Click on the airports to see which is which. BUT, heading from Adak to
Casco, you go EAST.. which means ADAK is west.

Good job, Paul
Dave

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, "S Narayan" > said:
>
>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
>>>Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W is
>>>positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>>>
>>>However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to get
>>>to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.
>>
>>By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and
>>+ve longitudes east of Greenwich. OK, let's forget that for the time being.
>
>
> I use a different convention.
>
>
>>Taking your example of Adak at -176 and Casco Cove is -173 ---- you consider
>
>
> No, Adak is at +176 and Casco Cove is at -173.
>
>
>>Casco WEST of Adak. Using this convention let's take a simple example and
>
>
> It is. Look at a map.
>
>
>>San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8. Using above
>
>
> No, San Francisco is at +122.4 and Reno is at +119.
>
>
>>Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which
>>is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original location
>>(but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.
>
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. Look at a map.
>
>

[Cub Driver]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:37:45 -0400, "John Gaquin"
> wrote:

>I've only been as far west as Dutch, but I think I recall some talk of a
>field on Adak. It was all 30 years ago. Remember also, what is defined as
>an airport in the Aleutians may be pretty rudimentary.

There's a military field on Adak, and likewise on Shemya. No civilian
fields.

The AOPA handbook shows a civilian airport on Unalaska, but that's far
along the chain.

Rudimentary is fine. A beach would do, if there's a gas station
nearby.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:10:51 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>A very nice one. http://www.alaska.net/~vwadak/airport.html

Wow! 7800 ft. That ought to suffice for an L-4 :)

Now if we could only open up something on Attu or Shemya ....


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:13:23 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. Look at a map.

Where can I find a map?

Never mind! I just did.
http://www.commerce.state.ak.us/dca/commdb/CIS.cfm?Comm_Boro_Name=Attu%20Station&Data_Type=Overview

Yes: Casco Bay is on Attu, and Attu is farther west. Indeed, I don't
think there's anything farther west where Russian is not the language
of choice.

Many thanks to you or whoever brought Casco Bay into the discussion.

"The Casco Cove Airport is a 5,800' paved runway, maintained by the
Coast Guard. The airstrip is authorized for public use only in an
emergency; all others must obtain permission from the U.S. Coast Guard
17th District, located in Juneau at 907-392-3315."


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:51:56 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>Sidewinder up the wazoo! :~(

I question that. Note that the Cessna got within 3 miles of the White
House without being shot down.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> There's a military field on Adak, and likewise on Shemya. No civilian
> fields.
>

Adak NAS was closed a few years ago, the field is now Adak Airport.

[Matt Barrow]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:37:45 -0400, "John Gaquin"
> > wrote:
>
> >I've only been as far west as Dutch, but I think I recall some talk of a
> >field on Adak. It was all 30 years ago. Remember also, what is defined
as
> >an airport in the Aleutians may be pretty rudimentary.
>
> There's a military field on Adak, and likewise on Shemya. No civilian
> fields.
>
The airport on Adak is a CIVILIAN airport

http://www.airnav.com/airport/ADK

[Matt Barrow]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:51:56 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Sidewinder up the wazoo! :~(
>
> I question that. Note that the Cessna got within 3 miles of the White
> House without being shot down.

The C-150 would have fallen on city dwellers...anything in Alaska would only
fall on a whale.

But I suppose whales are considered more precious than people.

[John Gaquin]

"S Narayan" > wrote in message

>
> By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and

> Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which

One, or possibly both, of you guys is getting all twisted around with this
"international convention" stuff. (BTW, is that another French idea?)

Adak is at 176W long. Attu is at 173E long. That means that Attu is
farther west than Adak, except to those truly anal types who insist that you
MUST measure eastward, which would place Attu 349 degrees east of Adak. No
one with any sense does this.

Also, both islands are on the same (eastward) side of the Date Line. Attu
is westward of the 180 degree meridian, but the Date Line jogs westward here
to encompass the Near Island group.

[S Narayan]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
> said:
>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>> Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
>>> Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W
>>> is
>>> positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>>>
>>> However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to
>>> get
>>> to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.
>>By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and
>>+ve longitudes east of Greenwich. OK, let's forget that for the time
>>being.
>
> I use a different convention.
>
>>Taking your example of Adak at -176 and Casco Cove is -173 ---- you
>>consider
>
> No, Adak is at +176 and Casco Cove is at -173.
>
>>Casco WEST of Adak. Using this convention let's take a simple example and
>
> It is. Look at a map.
>
>>San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8. Using above
>
> No, San Francisco is at +122.4 and Reno is at +119.

You are entitled to invent your own coordinate system but this is not what
you will find on a coordinate lookup. If anyone can point me any website
that gives these coordinates for SF and Reno, I would appreciate it. I will
try to avoid those websites. In most cases it is obvious what the intent is,
but for this example, it certainly has generated some confusion.

>
>>Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove which
>>is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original
>>location
>>(but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. Look at a map.


I took your earlier categorical statement of +176 for Adak and -173 for Attu
and applied it in the standard convention. I apologise for not checking the
coordinates from an independent site. All my statements were based on the
coordinates you provided but interpreted in the standard sense. One wouldn't
have to look at a map if the coordinates were specified in standard notation
to know which way is west or east.

I just looked up the coordinates on airnav.com which are -176 (176W) for
Adak and +173 (173E) for Attu. I whole heartedly agree with those who say
Attu is WEST of Adak. I think there are still some dissenters in the
newsgroup.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "S Narayan" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
>> said:
>>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
>>>> Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W
>>>> is
>>>> positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>I took your earlier categorical statement of +176 for Adak and -173 for Attu
>and applied it in the standard convention. I apologise for not checking the

Why didn't you look at the end of the sentence, where I said that "W is
positive"? You know, if you're going to argue with somebody's point, you
really should read the whole sentence you're arguing with.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
They thought that faxing one's butt was bad - just wait till they hear
about blurry, pixilated, mpeg artifacted live porn by phone!
-- Geoff Lane contemplates the 3G future

[S Narayan]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Here is a map :)
>
> http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/fuelroute/1/ADK-ATU
>
> Click on the airports to see which is which. BUT, heading from Adak to
> Casco, you go EAST.. which means ADAK is west.

I don't trust Airnav's initial heading of 081. Clearly Attu (Casco) is west
of Adak.

>
> Good job, Paul
> Dave
>
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
>> said:
>>
>>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even if
>>>>Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W
>>>>is
>>>>positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>>>>
>>>>However, no matter how you slice it, if you're at Adak and you want to
>>>>get
>>>>to Casco Cove, you go west. Look at a globe.
>>>
>>>By international convention -ve longitudes apply to west of Greenwich and
>>>+ve longitudes east of Greenwich. OK, let's forget that for the time
>>>being.
>>
>>
>> I use a different convention.
>>
>>
>>>Taking your example of Adak at -176 and Casco Cove is -173 ---- you
>>>consider
>>
>>
>> No, Adak is at +176 and Casco Cove is at -173.
>>
>>
>>>Casco WEST of Adak. Using this convention let's take a simple example
>>>and
>>
>>
>> It is. Look at a map.
>>
>>
>>>San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8. Using above
>>
>>
>> No, San Francisco is at +122.4 and Reno is at +119.
>>
>>
>>>Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove
>>>which is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original
>>>location (but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.
>>
>>
>> Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. Look at a map.
>>
>>
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Dave S > said:
>Here is a map :)
>
>http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/fuelroute/1/ADK-ATU
>
>Click on the airports to see which is which. BUT, heading from Adak to
>Casco, you go EAST.. which means ADAK is west.
>
>Good job, Paul
>Dave

AirNav has a bug in their algorithm.

I'll accept your apology any time now.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Pilots are reminded to ensure that all surly bonds are slipped before
attempting taxi or take-off"

[S Narayan]

"Scott Skylane" > wrote in message
...
>S Narayan wrote:
>
> /snip/
>> Adak really being at +176 indicates it is further West of Casco Cove
>> which is at -173. Moving Adak to -176 puts it 8 deg east of the original
>> location (but now across the date line) but still west of Casco Cove.
>>
>>
>
> Tell me you are not a pilot. Please.
> Scott Skylane

Did you see anything wrong with my interpretation, assuming standard
convention? I am sorry I don't subscribe to Paul's coordinate system, but if
you took his numbers and used them like most people would, you clearly would
reach the same convention. I should have inverted the sign of all his
coordinates and things would have been fine. At the IDL, signs are
important.

For the record, I am a PP-ASEL-IA.

[S Narayan]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
> said:
>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
>>> said:
>>>>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> Actually Adak is at +176.6460306 and Casco Cove is at -173. But even
>>>>> if
>>>>> Adak was at -176 and Casco Cove was at -173 in my coordinate system (W
>>>>> is
>>>>> positive), Casco would still be further west than Adak.
>>I took your earlier categorical statement of +176 for Adak and -173 for
>>Attu
>>and applied it in the standard convention. I apologise for not checking
>>the
>
> Why didn't you look at the end of the sentence, where I said that "W is
> positive"? You know, if you're going to argue with somebody's point, you
> really should read the whole sentence you're arguing with.
>

I apologised. You want me to get down on my knees :-) ?

I don't quite understand why you use this convention. Is it because it
simplifies the use in a spreadsheet?

[Scott Skylane]

Dave S wrote:
> Here is a map :)
>
> http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/fuelroute/1/ADK-ATU
>
> Click on the airports to see which is which. BUT, heading from Adak to
> Casco, you go EAST.. which means ADAK is west.
>

Error report sent to Airnav.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Scott Skylane]

Cub Driver wrote:


> There's a military field on Adak, and likewise on Shemya. No civilian
> fields.
>
> The AOPA handbook shows a civilian airport on Unalaska, but that's far
> along the chain.
>
> Rudimentary is fine. A beach would do, if there's a gas station
> nearby.
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford

Dan,
This talk about airports in the western Aluetians, what's it all about?
You aren't thinking of trying something really *stupid*, are you?!?

Happy Flying in Hospitable Climes!
Scott Skylane

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "S Narayan" > said:
>I don't quite understand why you use this convention. Is it because it
>simplifies the use in a spreadsheet?

I use it because CoPilot uses it, and that's the main customer of my data.
CoPilot undoubtedly uses it because it means that US and Canadian data is
positive.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Q: Why do PCs have a reset button on the front?
A: Because they are expected to run Microsoft operating systems.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "S Narayan" >
> said:
>>
>>San Francisco, CA is at -122.4 and Reno, NV is -119.8.
>>
>
> No, San Francisco is at +122.4 and Reno is at +119.
>

By convention west longitude and south latitude are negative, east longitude
and north latitude are positive.

[Matt Barrow]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, Dave S > said:
> >Here is a map :)
> >
> >http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/fuelroute/1/ADK-ATU
> >
> >Click on the airports to see which is which. BUT, heading from Adak to
> >Casco, you go EAST.. which means ADAK is west.
> >
> >Good job, Paul
> >Dave
>
> AirNav has a bug in their algorithm.
>
> I'll accept your apology any time now.
>
Go to http://www.airnav.com/airport/ATU, click on the MAPPOINT link on the
right just above the airport picture.

Enlarge the map and zoom out until both locations are shown. Simple.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Matt Barrow" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>> In a previous article, Dave S > said:
>> >http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/fuelroute/1/ADK-ATU
>> >
>> >Click on the airports to see which is which. BUT, heading from Adak to
>> >Casco, you go EAST.. which means ADAK is west.
>> AirNav has a bug in their algorithm.
>>
>> I'll accept your apology any time now.
>>
>Go to http://www.airnav.com/airport/ATU, click on the MAPPOINT link on the
>right just above the airport picture.

Yup:

http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?C=52.290786238118905,179.32779907153054&L=USA&A=2000&S=800,740&PN=923159998&P=%7c52.828356%2c173.180306%7c1%7cATU%7cL1%7c&TI=ATU

or

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E2C813D3B

Shows ATU on the far West side of the screen, and Adak on the far East
side of the screen. If you go east from Adak, you're going to have a VERY
long trip before you get to ATU. Say hi to Steve Fossett on the way.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
There is no substitute for good manners, except, perhaps, fast reflexes.

[George Patterson]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> But I suppose whales are considered more precious than people.

Well, if you believe that a greater value should be placed on the rarer item,
they certainly are.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:09:37 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>Adak NAS was closed a few years ago, the field is now Adak Airport.

Thanks. (Indeed, thanks to all who responded, thought it put my
east-west discriminator in serious jeopardy.)

Weird that these airports aren't in the AOPA guide.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:50:49 -0800, Scott Skylane
> wrote:

>This talk about airports in the western Aluetians, what's it all about?
> You aren't thinking of trying something really *stupid*, are you?!?

No, but Maurice Kirk is. www.pipercubforum.com/korea.htm

In 2001 he flew from London to Sydney. Last year he took part in the
around-New Zealand air race, then flew the Cub back to Australia.
(Check it out) In April and May he flew from Darwin to near Seoul.

Now all that's holding him up is the Russian insistence that, because
there's no avgas for sale in Siberia (maybe in all of Russia?), he
must put a diesel engine in the Cub. (He has made much of the flight
from London to Seoul on mogas.)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com