Best PDA or tablet soln for GPS & XM WX and gyro AI

[Paul Folbrecht]

I decided awhile ago I'd like to get a PDA (preferred) or perhaps a small
tablet for in-cockpit GPS moving map and satellite weather and a backup,
emergency-only AI as well (not a simple GPS AI but a real solid-state gyro).

After days of research I can't seem to find a single system that does
everything I would like with no major negatives.

I started looking seriously at Anywhere Map/WX/AI which looks pretty good
except for their gyro - seems many users have problems with it. The other
thing is that there seems to be issues with their customer service.

I like NavGPS a lot too coupled with the PC-EFIS they bundle and that all
looks good, but I don't know if there is a satellite WX system that will
work with their software at all.

I prefer a PDA for size reasons (plane's a 152) but a small tablet that
could be yoke-mounted would also be Ok. If anybody can recommend a system
that meets all three of these needs and can be add for less than $3K all-up
I'd like to hear of it. TIA.

[Ben Hallert]

Check this out, I stumbled across the website a few days ago and it
looks pretty nice:

http://www.aviationsafety.com/

[Curtis Smith]

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
> I decided awhile ago I'd like to get a PDA (preferred) or perhaps a small
> tablet for in-cockpit GPS moving map and satellite weather and a backup,
> emergency-only AI as well (not a simple GPS AI but a real solid-state gyro).
>
> After days of research I can't seem to find a single system that does
> everything I would like with no major negatives.
>
> I started looking seriously at Anywhere Map/WX/AI which looks pretty good
> except for their gyro - seems many users have problems with it. The other
> thing is that there seems to be issues with their customer service.
>
> I like NavGPS a lot too coupled with the PC-EFIS they bundle and that all
> looks good, but I don't know if there is a satellite WX system that will
> work with their software at all.
>
> I prefer a PDA for size reasons (plane's a 152) but a small tablet that
> could be yoke-mounted would also be Ok. If anybody can recommend a system
> that meets all three of these needs and can be add for less than $3K all-up
> I'd like to hear of it. TIA.

Check out www.airgator.com. They don't have AI or georeferenced
approach plates (yet), but the map display is said to be the nicest.
I'm still looking, myself.

[Mitty]

On 6/10/2005 10:49 PM, Paul Folbrecht wrote the following:

> After days of research I can't seem to find a single system that does
> everything I would like with no major negatives.

I agree.

I just walked this path, doing the downloads and tests on an HP TC1100 which is
I think the smallest generally available tablet. Just under 8 1/2" x 11" & 3/4"
thick. I made a kneeboard mount for it.

Among the apps I looked at were Anywhere Map XP (no demo download, downloadable
documentation is garbage, no free return policy, so I did not run it), NavGPS
(free demo download), APIC (free demo download), and ChartCase Pro (no download,
free 30 day return). None of them do it all & the ones that try to do all do
not seem to do anything well.

Without going into detail, I placed my bet on ChartCase Pro. All the charts are
there: Augmented vector DAFIF, high altitude, low altitude, sectional, WAC, and
all the plates. All georeferenced and completely integrated with a quite decent
flight planning package. You can even overlay DUATS graphical WX on the DAFIF
chart! It appears to be the only package, too, that was designed for a real
screen and not a PDA. This means fewer interface compromises.

That being said, IMHO all the packages are immature (except possibly Anywhere
Map) and very much under development. So you are really selecting the company,
not the current release of the application.

I know that S&E is planning to announce a major release of ChartCase Pro at
Oshkosh, improving the in-flight user interface and possibly adding the
still-AWOL HSI. I believe that terrain warnings and in-flight WX will not be
far behind. I am also hoping for a primary flight display (PFD) like APIC's.
(The APIC PFD surprised me with how responsive it was in the air. It caused me
to conclude that GPS based reference instruments a la Garmin can be an adequate
backup for main gyro failure.)

Incidentally, the photos at the ChartCase Pro site
(http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=chartcaseinfo) show the TC1100 but
have been doctored a bit to exaggerate its brightness in a cockpit.

HTH

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

I have this product and it is good for terrain, best altitude by winds
aloft, gas prices, etc.

With WxWorx, it is running on a navAero tPad800. Great concept all for
around $3000. BUUUTTT! The hard drive will fail if you fly above 9-10,000
for more than an hour or so. Not may, will! It has done so on all of the
four previous flights since the product was delivered in Jan.

Keep this in mind when choosing a product. I would go with a PDAs, tablets
or other product, if possible, without a hard drive.

YRMV, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

VOsborne2 at charter dot net
"Ben Hallert" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Check this out, I stumbled across the website a few days ago and it
> looks pretty nice:
>
> http://www.aviationsafety.com/
>

[Jim Burns]

Hey Paul,
I just got back from looking at a friends Sony U750. Pretty impressive, but
needs to be used fairly close, either on a yoke mount or kneeboard. It's
bluetooth enabled and he uses it for XM Weather and has the NOS approach
plates on it. He loves it, especially for the dimming feature that goes
completely black with only a couple presses of a button, no fumbling through
menus for the backlight slider. Makes night time approaches a lot nicer.
Jim

[Michael 182]

"Victor J. Osborne, Jr." > wrote in message
...
>I have this product and it is good for terrain, best altitude by winds
>aloft, gas prices, etc.
>
> With WxWorx, it is running on a navAero tPad800. Great concept all for
> around $3000. BUUUTTT! The hard drive will fail if you fly above 9-10,000
> for more than an hour or so. Not may, will! It has done so on all of the
> four previous flights since the product was delivered in Jan.
>
> Keep this in mind when choosing a product. I would go with a PDAs,
> tablets or other product, if possible, without a hard drive.

Why would altitude affect a hard drive?

FWIW, I run my iPod at high altitudes all the time with no failures.

Michael

[Luke Scharf]

Michael 182 wrote:
> Why would altitude affect a hard drive?

Because the hard drive head "flies" over the platter. The tolerances
are tight enough and things move quickly enough inside the drive that
the air has a big affect on how close the read/write head gets to the
disc platter, and the drive is designed with this in mind.

Take the air away, and the head that was supposed to be hovering a few
mils over the disc is now scratching up the surface on which the data is
stored. Not a recipe for reliable long-term data storage.

See the following page for more detail:
http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/heads/opHeight.html

> FWIW, I run my iPod at high altitudes all the time with no failures.

Then somebody did a good job designing the hard drive in it, assuming
that it has a hard drive. The iPod Shuffle uses flash ram instead of a
hard drive and should work in a vacuum -- even if listening to music in
a vacuum appears to be impractical. :-)

-Luke

[Nathan Young]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 03:49:27 GMT, Paul Folbrecht
> wrote:

>I decided awhile ago I'd like to get a PDA (preferred) or perhaps a small
>tablet for in-cockpit GPS moving map and satellite weather and a backup,
>emergency-only AI as well (not a simple GPS AI but a real solid-state gyro).
>
>After days of research I can't seem to find a single system that does
>everything I would like with no major negatives.
>
>I started looking seriously at Anywhere Map/WX/AI which looks pretty good
>except for their gyro - seems many users have problems with it. The other
>thing is that there seems to be issues with their customer service.
>
>I like NavGPS a lot too coupled with the PC-EFIS they bundle and that all
>looks good, but I don't know if there is a satellite WX system that will
>work with their software at all.
>
>I prefer a PDA for size reasons (plane's a 152) but a small tablet that
>could be yoke-mounted would also be Ok. If anybody can recommend a system
>that meets all three of these needs and can be add for less than $3K all-up
>I'd like to hear of it. TIA.

I have a Fujitsu ST4121, which is a sunlight readable tablet with
10.4" display. It is a phenomenal tool in the cockpit for moving
maps, approach plates, XM Radio, and with the 40G HDD it is a good
iPod too.

If I was starting over, I would spring the extra for an ST5121, which
is the latest and greatest from Fujitsu. The ST512 integrates
bluetooth. The latest WxWorx receivers are bluetooth enabled, and
bluetooth GPS receivers are easy to find, so this would greatly reduce
cockpit cable clutter.

I fly solo most of the time, so the tablet size is not an issue for me
- the tablet is my right seat passenger.

I think if you went with the ST5121, and all BT capable devices, it
would be easy enough to use even if you have a right seat passenger.

-Nathan

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

What the battery requirements for all these bluetooth devices.

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

VOsborne2 at charter dot net

> I have a Fujitsu ST4121, which is a sunlight readable tablet with
> 10.4" display. It is a phenomenal tool in the cockpit for moving
> maps, approach plates, XM Radio, and with the 40G HDD it is a good
> iPod too.
>
> If I was starting over, I would spring the extra for an ST5121, which
> is the latest and greatest from Fujitsu. The ST512 integrates
> bluetooth. The latest WxWorx receivers are bluetooth enabled, and
> bluetooth GPS receivers are easy to find, so this would greatly reduce
> cockpit cable clutter.
>
> I fly solo most of the time, so the tablet size is not an issue for me
> - the tablet is my right seat passenger.
>
> I think if you went with the ST5121, and all BT capable devices, it
> would be easy enough to use even if you have a right seat passenger.
>
> -Nathan

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Paul Folbrecht > wrote:
> I decided awhile ago I'd like to get a PDA (preferred) or perhaps a small
> tablet for in-cockpit GPS moving map and satellite weather and a backup,
> emergency-only AI as well (not a simple GPS AI but a real solid-state gyro).

I haven't heard many negative comments about Control Vision's AI
product, but I really haven't researched it extensively either. I have
read so many negative comments about Control Vision's support that I
almost think that the competition is behind some of them--though I have
no proof of that. I don't know what CV's support was like in the past,
but I have been fairly impressed with their customer focus lately. They
aren't perfect, but their management does seem to care about resolving
true problems with the products that they sell.

I'm not sure that anyone has "the whole package." I can tell you that
CV probably has the most full-featured GPS+Weather package on a PDA. If
weather uplink isn't a big factor, there may be better GPS+AI packages
out there.


JKG

[Michael 182]

"Luke Scharf" > wrote in message
...
> Michael 182 wrote:
>> Why would altitude affect a hard drive?
>
> Because the hard drive head "flies" over the platter. The tolerances are
> tight enough and things move quickly enough inside the drive that the air
> has a big affect on how close the read/write head gets to the disc
> platter, and the drive is designed with this in mind.
>
> Take the air away, and the head that was supposed to be hovering a few
> mils over the disc is now scratching up the surface on which the data is
> stored. Not a recipe for reliable long-term data storage.

Thanks. Good explanation.



>> FWIW, I run my iPod at high altitudes all the time with no failures.
>
> Then somebody did a good job designing the hard drive in it, assuming that
> it has a hard drive. The iPod Shuffle uses flash ram instead of a hard
> drive and should work in a vacuum -- even if listening to music in a
> vacuum appears to be impractical. :-)

No, I have the 20 gig drive.

Michael

[Nathan Young]

Not sure. I run my ST4121 on cigarette lighter power. The WxWorx
receiver runs on cigarette lighter as well.

Most BT GPS have an integrated battery that is good for 10+ hrs on a
charge, but I would get one that runs on cigaretter lighter as well.


On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:33:36 -0400, "Victor J. Osborne, Jr."
> wrote:

>What the battery requirements for all these bluetooth devices.

>>
>> If I was starting over, I would spring the extra for an ST5121, which
>> is the latest and greatest from Fujitsu. The ST512 integrates
>> bluetooth. The latest WxWorx receivers are bluetooth enabled, and
>> bluetooth GPS receivers are easy to find, so this would greatly reduce
>> cockpit cable clutter.
>>

[Mitty]

On 6/11/2005 9:33 PM, Victor J. Osborne, Jr. wrote the following:
> What the battery requirements for all these bluetooth devices.
>
> Thx, {|;-)

My HP TC1100 with BT runs a bit over 3 hours in the cockpit on its internal
battery, so I don't even have to hook it up for shorter trips. (YMMV, as I
found that the APIC software was so CPU intensive that I only got 2 hours.)

My Bluetooth GPS is a Holux 230, which claims 9 hours of battery life. In the
couple of months I have had it, with charging before a flight, it has never run
flat. That said, if I had it to do over again I would get the Holux 231 with
has a removable cell phone type battery. Then I would carry a charged spare and
absolutely never worry about having to plug the GPS receiver in. (I do carry
the 12v power cord for the Holux, however, just in case.)

Another thing: I made it a priority to get a GPS with an external antenna jack,
assuming that using a good antenna would be worthwhile. Not so, the Holux
internal antenna works as well as when I plug in a Garmin antenna. So ... one
less wire, one less gadget needed. I made a suction cup bracket to put the
Holux on the windshield & I just stick it there with no wires connected. Works
fine.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article . com>,
"Curtis Smith" > wrote:
> > I prefer a PDA for size reasons (plane's a 152) but a small tablet that
> > could be yoke-mounted would also be Ok. If anybody can recommend a system
> > that meets all three of these needs and can be add for less than $3K all-up
> > I'd like to hear of it. TIA.
>
> Check out www.airgator.com. They don't have AI or georeferenced
> approach plates (yet), but the map display is said to be the nicest.
> I'm still looking, myself.


I was not all that impressed with the AirGator product on the PDA.
AirGator does support VGA on the appropriate PDA, and they do display a
couple of weather products that the competition doesn't yet display, but
I found their map and navigational/flight planning functionality lacking.

The MountainScope product from PC Flight Systyems is the most impressive
terrain-mapping package that I've seen so far, but I haven't actually
tried it. I have heard others comment positively on it, however.


JKG

[Matt Barrow]

Motion Computing LE1600.

Great display, 1GB Celeron, 30GB HD.

http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_le.asp

[Mitty]

Interesting thread here:

http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22517

includes several photos of the Motion machine in a cockpit.

If the link doesn't work, search on "cockpit" will get you the thread.

On 6/12/2005 10:13 AM, Matt Barrow wrote the following:
> Motion Computing LE1600.
>
> Great display, 1GB Celeron, 30GB HD.
>
> http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_le.asp
>
>

[[email protected]]

If you do a lot of IFR, don't over look JeppView/FliteDeck. I have
previously posted my setup with a touch screen monitor & portable PC.
FliteDeck has the best IFR moving map. Since I fly mostly around
California, I pay only $295 for initial and $195/year thereafter. And
that is for moving map & all charting data.

As for AI & WX, JeppView does not have them & I have no experience with
product of these type. But, JeppView is Windows based and should be
able to run alone side other Windows programs.

[Will]

The quality of the visual display on the PC Avaionics
MountainScope product is almost surreal it is so good:

http://www.pcavionics.com

They don't have WX weather yet.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> I decided awhile ago I'd like to get a PDA (preferred) or
perhaps a small
> tablet for in-cockpit GPS moving map and satellite weather and
a backup,
> emergency-only AI as well (not a simple GPS AI but a real
solid-state gyro).
>
> After days of research I can't seem to find a single system
that does
> everything I would like with no major negatives.
>
> I started looking seriously at Anywhere Map/WX/AI which looks
pretty good
> except for their gyro - seems many users have problems with it.
The other
> thing is that there seems to be issues with their customer
service.
>
> I like NavGPS a lot too coupled with the PC-EFIS they bundle
and that all
> looks good, but I don't know if there is a satellite WX system
that will
> work with their software at all.
>
> I prefer a PDA for size reasons (plane's a 152) but a small
tablet that
> could be yoke-mounted would also be Ok. If anybody can
recommend a system
> that meets all three of these needs and can be add for less
than $3K all-up
> I'd like to hear of it. TIA.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Will" > said:
>The quality of the visual display on the PC Avaionics
>MountainScope product is almost surreal it is so good:
>
>http://www.pcavionics.com
>
>They don't have WX weather yet.

Their web site says they do.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
a) log a message at user.emerg of the form "DANGER! MORON ON /dev/pts/1"
b) print to stderr "NO! WRONG! TOTALLY WRONG! WHERE'D YOU LEARN THIS?
STOP DOING IT!" -- Jeremiah Weiner

[Blueskies]

"Mitty" > wrote in message ...
> Interesting thread here:
>
> http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22517
>
> includes several photos of the Motion machine in a cockpit.
>
> If the link doesn't work, search on "cockpit" will get you the thread.
>
> On 6/12/2005 10:13 AM, Matt Barrow wrote the following:
>> Motion Computing LE1600.
>>
>> Great display, 1GB Celeron, 30GB HD.
>>
>> http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_le.asp
>>

That is a lot of screen to be looking at - I hope those folks are looking outside more than they are looking inside.

[S Narayan]

"Will" > wrote in message
...
> The quality of the visual display on the PC Avaionics
> MountainScope product is almost surreal it is so good:
>
> http://www.pcavionics.com
>
> They don't have WX weather yet.
>
> --
> Will
> Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com
>
>
> "Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I decided awhile ago I'd like to get a PDA (preferred) or
> perhaps a small
>> tablet for in-cockpit GPS moving map and satellite weather and
> a backup,
>> emergency-only AI as well (not a simple GPS AI but a real
> solid-state gyro).
>>
>> After days of research I can't seem to find a single system
> that does
>> everything I would like with no major negatives.
>>
>> I started looking seriously at Anywhere Map/WX/AI which looks
> pretty good
>> except for their gyro - seems many users have problems with it.
> The other
>> thing is that there seems to be issues with their customer
> service.
>>
>> I like NavGPS a lot too coupled with the PC-EFIS they bundle
> and that all
>> looks good, but I don't know if there is a satellite WX system
> that will
>> work with their software at all.
>>
>> I prefer a PDA for size reasons (plane's a 152) but a small
> tablet that
>> could be yoke-mounted would also be Ok. If anybody can
> recommend a system
>> that meets all three of these needs and can be add for less
> than $3K all-up
>> I'd like to hear of it. TIA.
>
>
I have AWM (from Control Vision) with Pocket Plates. Works well, however I
hope they can improve the user interface and clean up their menus and
improve their display. Their next revision is expected to be major upgrade.
I don't have the weather package. I downloaded Mountainscope demo from
PCAvionics, it is by far the best terrain display and user interface I have
seen. The only negative is that currently they don't show roads and other
man-made features and the display only shows "track up" and no option to
switch to "North up". This is a major limitation as far as I am concerned.
CV can learn a few things from PCAvionics, otherwise I see this company
quickly taking away some of their customers.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article <1118765521.389bb151ae2b6e24f435b75ffe6de51a@terane ws>,
"S Narayan" > wrote:
> I have AWM (from Control Vision) with Pocket Plates. Works well, however I
> hope they can improve the user interface and clean up their menus and
> improve their display. Their next revision is expected to be major upgrade.
> I don't have the weather package. I downloaded Mountainscope demo from
> PCAvionics, it is by far the best terrain display and user interface I have
> seen. The only negative is that currently they don't show roads and other
> man-made features and the display only shows "track up" and no option to
> switch to "North up". This is a major limitation as far as I am concerned.
> CV can learn a few things from PCAvionics, otherwise I see this company
> quickly taking away some of their customers.


I really don't know what major problems there are with CV's user
interface. Sure, it could be more intuitive in places, but coming from
a group of programmers, the layout and ease of use is pretty impressive.
It is certainly no worse than anything else related to Microsoft
Windows, and Microsoft supposedly employs human interface gurus.

MountainScope has the flashy terrain, but as you noted, they are missing
many things that AWM incorporates. I suspect that available processing
power on present-day PDAs forces a choice: nice, high res graphics, or
more features displayed. Personally, I'd rather have more features and
less flashy graphics. While MountainScope's display is, perhaps, ideal,
it isn't ideal at the expense of other features which are more useful in
flight, at least in my opinion.



JKG

[S Narayan]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article <1118765521.389bb151ae2b6e24f435b75ffe6de51a@terane ws>,
> "S Narayan" > wrote:
>> I have AWM (from Control Vision) with Pocket Plates. Works well, however
>> I
>> hope they can improve the user interface and clean up their menus and
>> improve their display. Their next revision is expected to be major
>> upgrade.
>> I don't have the weather package. I downloaded Mountainscope demo from
>> PCAvionics, it is by far the best terrain display and user interface I
>> have
>> seen. The only negative is that currently they don't show roads and other
>> man-made features and the display only shows "track up" and no option to
>> switch to "North up". This is a major limitation as far as I am
>> concerned.
>> CV can learn a few things from PCAvionics, otherwise I see this company
>> quickly taking away some of their customers.
>
>
> I really don't know what major problems there are with CV's user
> interface. Sure, it could be more intuitive in places, but coming from
> a group of programmers, the layout and ease of use is pretty impressive.
> It is certainly no worse than anything else related to Microsoft
> Windows, and Microsoft supposedly employs human interface gurus.
>
> MountainScope has the flashy terrain, but as you noted, they are missing
> many things that AWM incorporates. I suspect that available processing
> power on present-day PDAs forces a choice: nice, high res graphics, or
> more features displayed. Personally, I'd rather have more features and
> less flashy graphics. While MountainScope's display is, perhaps, ideal,
> it isn't ideal at the expense of other features which are more useful in
> flight, at least in my opinion.

Re: AWM (now version 1.7) One of the other issues I had was being able to
pan to other parts of the map without going through the rough air buttons
mode. That has been addressed now with 1.7. Also the airport facilities
looks page is nicely done and if that's kept up to date, that is a lot of
useful information. They have also added "virtual" IFR approaches which is
nice to have - though pocket plates does a fairly good job (except for the
lack of a variable zoom feature or declutter of the fixes). I haven't run it
with the GPS yet, but the last version did not have a detailed GPS page
(with all satellites shown, DOP etc..). I am not sure if they have included
it this time.

[Stephen McNaught]

They have not. Take a look at "VisualGPSce" @
http://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPSce/default.htm .

"S Narayan" > wrote in message
news:1119041820.c656f7f19bbdd75e1c6942a3563e3170@t eranews...
> I haven't run it
> with the GPS yet, but the last version did not have a detailed GPS page
> (with all satellites shown, DOP etc..). I am not sure if they have
included
> it this time.

[S Narayan]

That's a cool application. Thanks.

I am surprised AWM has not done this. Most GPS applications display this
page (even Garmin Que street software does this and really it isn't needed
for auto navigation).

"Stephen McNaught" > wrote in message
...
> They have not. Take a look at "VisualGPSce" @
> http://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPSce/default.htm .
>
> "S Narayan" > wrote in message
> news:1119041820.c656f7f19bbdd75e1c6942a3563e3170@t eranews...
>> I haven't run it
>> with the GPS yet, but the last version did not have a detailed GPS page
>> (with all satellites shown, DOP etc..). I am not sure if they have
> included
>> it this time.
>
>

[Stephen McNaught]

Yea, I'm surprised too. Especially since I have been mentioning it to them
for a few years now.

"S Narayan" > wrote in message
news:1119051616.277417071f2c73fe78bad41589747f0e@t eranews...
> I am surprised AWM has not done this. Most GPS applications display this
> page (even Garmin Que street software does this and really it isn't needed
> for auto navigation).

[Stephen McNaught]

BTW, with VisualGPSce, if you click and hold down the stylus on any of the
pages, you get a menu for options for that page. For example, on the "Panel"
page, you can show a large version of just one of the gauges, cycle through
a large version of the gauges, or set the speeds on the speed gauge.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article <1119041820.c656f7f19bbdd75e1c6942a3563e3170@terane ws>,
"S Narayan" > wrote:
> Re: AWM (now version 1.7) One of the other issues I had was being able to
> pan to other parts of the map without going through the rough air buttons
> mode. That has been addressed now with 1.7. Also the airport facilities
> looks page is nicely done and if that's kept up to date, that is a lot of
> useful information. They have also added "virtual" IFR approaches which is
> nice to have - though pocket plates does a fairly good job (except for the
> lack of a variable zoom feature or declutter of the fixes). I haven't run it
> with the GPS yet, but the last version did not have a detailed GPS page
> (with all satellites shown, DOP etc..). I am not sure if they have included
> it this time.


I agree, the additional information that they've provided in the airport
data page is excellent, and will remain so only if they keep it up to
date. It seems that they are missing fuel data on quite a few places
yet, and I don't see anywhere on their 100ll.com site for a user to
submit fuel prices; not sure how they get their fuel price updates.

Since upgrading to 1.7 (via a clean install), I've noticed that many
parts of the program seem to be a bit faster, and some slower (loading
full airport diagrams by double-tapping on the runway plan view seems
slower than in 1.6.7.)


JKG

[Stephen McNaught]

I believe that the "airport" information comes from the FAA. So, as long as
the FAA keeps their data up to date, so will CV. The fuel prices come from
the FBO's. They (CV) are in the process of contacting all the FBO's. It
should be pointed out that the "fuel price's on the airport information
page", is a subscription option (I think $30 yr), and that users are getting
it free for the month of June because it's a new feature. Also, the fuel
price file that gets downloaded is deleted after two weeks. So, two weeks in
to July, unless you subscribe, you won't have any "fuel prices".

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> I agree, the additional information that they've provided in the airport
> data page is excellent, and will remain so only if they keep it up to
> date. It seems that they are missing fuel data on quite a few places
> yet, and I don't see anywhere on their 100ll.com site for a user to
> submit fuel prices; not sure how they get their fuel price updates.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Stephen McNaught" > wrote:

> I believe that the "airport" information comes from the FAA. So, as long as
> the FAA keeps their data up to date, so will CV. The fuel prices come from
> the FBO's. They (CV) are in the process of contacting all the FBO's. It
> should be pointed out that the "fuel price's on the airport information
> page", is a subscription option (I think $30 yr), and that users are getting
> it free for the month of June because it's a new feature. Also, the fuel
> price file that gets downloaded is deleted after two weeks. So, two weeks in
> to July, unless you subscribe, you won't have any "fuel prices".


I am aware of that, but I am concerned about paying for a service that
may not work all that well. I'm not sure how they are going to have the
resources to contact all of the FBOs out there every two weeks to update
prices, and the FBOs really have no incentive to contact them. Also,
some popular local fuel stops in my area don't have folks who answer the
phone reliably, so fuel information for some of the most-desired
airports may not be available (and isn't presently available).

I noticed that they apparently negotiated an agreement with Hotels.com
for the lodging information, which seems to be fairly robust.




JKG

[Stephen McNaught]

I agree. I do not plan on subscribing to the fuel price updates. I can get
the (probably) same information from other sources. I hope they do well, and
can keep it up to date.

- Steve (who is wondering whether we should move to R.A.products if we
continue talking about a specific product)

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> I am aware of that, but I am concerned about paying for a service that
> may not work all that well. I'm not sure how they are going to have the
> resources to contact all of the FBOs out there every two weeks to update
> prices, and the FBOs really have no incentive to contact them. Also,
> some popular local fuel stops in my area don't have folks who answer the
> phone reliably, so fuel information for some of the most-desired
> airports may not be available (and isn't presently available).

[Darrel Toepfer]

Stephen McNaught wrote:

> I agree. I do not plan on subscribing to the fuel price updates. I can get
> the (probably) same information from other sources. I hope they do well, and
> can keep it up to date.
>
> - Steve (who is wondering whether we should move to R.A.products if we
> continue talking about a specific product)

http://www.pocketfms.com I use it, like it and the price is
excellent... Free... If they keep upgrading it, XM weather should be
doable in the future, they already have internet weather...

Golden Eagle Flight prep has internet weather, just no moving map:
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=infogoldeneagle

Chartcase has moving map, just no XM support:
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=chartcaseinfo

http://www.oziexplorer.com has 3D addon's, no weather support...

Kyler Laird's free charts:
http://aviationtoolbox.org/raw_data/FAA/sectionals/current
No weather either... <g>