Test Q's

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Choose one, please.

18. H540 CFI
Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
conditions which occur during a spin entry?
A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
condition throughout the rotation.
B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.

[Casey Wilson]

> wrote in message
...
> Choose one, please.
>
> 18. H540 CFI
> Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
> conditions which occur during a spin entry?
> A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
> condition throughout the rotation.
> B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
> C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.

B

[jsmith]

wrote:
> Choose one, please.
>
> 18. H540 CFI
> Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
> conditions which occur during a spin entry?
> A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
> condition throughout the rotation.
> B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
> C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.

C

[Bob Gardner]

According to the Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3, in its discussion
of spins, "the rising wing is less stalled than the descending wing..."
which indicates to me that answer C is correct. "Less stalled than" means
that some lift is being developed.

This is not a black-and-white answer, though...it has been haggled over for
decades.

Bob Gardner

> wrote in message
...
> Choose one, please.
>
> 18. H540 CFI
> Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
> conditions which occur during a spin entry?
> A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
> condition throughout the rotation.
> B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
> C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.

[Chris G.]

And I would read that as "both wings are stalled"... It's a very poorly
written question or very well written (depending on your point-of-view).
I consider it poorly written because the answer is not clear in the
training materials AND not clear on the exam.

Chris


Bob Gardner wrote:
> According to the Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3, in its discussion
> of spins, "the rising wing is less stalled than the descending wing..."
> which indicates to me that answer C is correct. "Less stalled than" means
> that some lift is being developed.
>
> This is not a black-and-white answer, though...it has been haggled over for
> decades.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Choose one, please.
>>
>>18. H540 CFI
>>Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
>>conditions which occur during a spin entry?
>>A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
>>condition throughout the rotation.
>>B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
>>stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
>>continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
>>C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
>>stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
>>continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.
>
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

This question has been on FAA knowledge exams since the 1960s, in one form
or another, and pilots have been trying to figure out what the FAA wants for
at least that long.

Bob Gardner

"Chris G." <nospam@noemail> wrote in message
eenews.net...
> And I would read that as "both wings are stalled"... It's a very poorly
> written question or very well written (depending on your point-of-view). I
> consider it poorly written because the answer is not clear in the training
> materials AND not clear on the exam.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> According to the Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3, in its
>> discussion of spins, "the rising wing is less stalled than the descending
>> wing..." which indicates to me that answer C is correct. "Less stalled
>> than" means that some lift is being developed.
>>
>> This is not a black-and-white answer, though...it has been haggled over
>> for decades.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Choose one, please.
>>>
>>>18. H540 CFI
>>>Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
>>>conditions which occur during a spin entry?
>>>A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
>>>condition throughout the rotation.
>>>B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
>>>stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
>>>continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
>>>C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
>>>stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
>>>continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.
>>
>>

[Bob Gardner]

ASA's Test Prep and "Stick and Rudder" say that Answer A is correct. Dunno
what Gleim says. Kershner says that both wings are stalled, but further on
in the discussion he talks about "unequal lift." Hard to find an unequivocal
answer.

Bob Gardner

> wrote in message
...
> Choose one, please.
>
> 18. H540 CFI
> Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
> conditions which occur during a spin entry?
> A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
> condition throughout the rotation.
> B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
> C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
> continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.

[Matt Whiting]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote:
>
>
>>ASA's Test Prep and "Stick and Rudder" say that Answer A is correct. Dunno
>>what Gleim says. Kershner says that both wings are stalled, but further on
>>in the discussion he talks about "unequal lift." Hard to find an unequivocal
>>answer.
>
>
> I don't know the answer to this question, but I do know the
> following:
>
> 1) A stable spin mode can occur with both wings stalled, or
> only one.
>
> 2) Stalled wings always "produce lift." The deeper into the
> stall, the less lift they produce. If only slightly past
> the critical angle ("partially stalled"?) the wing produces
> nearly its max lift. If well past the critical angle ("full
> stall"?) it produces less, but it would "regain" lift if the
> angle decreased, even if it never actually unstalled.

I'd probably call it drag rather than lift in a stall. :-) Having said
that, I don't doubt for a minute that the wings will product unequal
amounts of drag as the airplane descends in the spin.


Matt

[jsmith]

There is a movie documenting Richard Bach's late-70's barnstorming trip
around the country with a pair of Fleet biplanes (same name as the book,
but I cannot remember what the title is). In one segment, he attaches
flares to the wingtips and goes flying, ignites the flares and in the
course of the flight, stalls and spins the aircraft. It is at this point
the a picture makes clear what is happening with the wings.
The smoke from the flare on the outside (flying) wing streams behind the
wingtip, while the smoke from the flare on the inside (stalled) wing
wafts slowly upward. This was filmed from the air from the accompanying
aircraft.

Chris G. wrote:
> And I would read that as "both wings are stalled"... It's a very poorly
> written question or very well written (depending on your point-of-view).
> I consider it poorly written because the answer is not clear in the
> training materials AND not clear on the exam.

[Blueskies]

"jsmith" > wrote in message . ..
> wrote:
>> Choose one, please.
>>
>> 18. H540 CFI Which statement is true concerning the aerodynamic
>> conditions which occur during a spin entry?
>> A) After a full stall, both wings remain in a stalled
>> condition throughout the rotation.
>> B) After a partial stall, the wing that drops remains in a
>> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
>> continues to produce lift, causing the rotation.
>> C) After a full stall, the wing that drops continues in a
>> stalled condition while the rising wing regains and
>> continues to produce some lift, causing the rotation.
>
> C
>

Si

[Roy Smith]

T o d d P a t t i s t > wrote:
> the only difference between a stalled wing at
> AOA 3 degrees beyond the stall and an unstalled wing at 3
> degrees before stall is that the unstalled wing will produce
> more lift if the AOA is increased and the stalled wing will
> produce less lift if the AOA is increased.

The stalled wing will also be producing more drag than the unstalled wing.
This is one of the things which causes the airplane to yaw towards the
dropping wing in a spin entry.

[George Patterson]

jsmith wrote:
> There is a movie documenting Richard Bach's late-70's barnstorming trip
> around the country with a pair of Fleet biplanes (same name as the book,
> but I cannot remember what the title is). In one segment, he attaches
> flares to the wingtips and goes flying, ignites the flares and in the
> course of the flight, stalls and spins the aircraft. It is at this point
> the a picture makes clear what is happening with the wings.
> The smoke from the flare on the outside (flying) wing streams behind the
> wingtip, while the smoke from the flare on the inside (stalled) wing
> wafts slowly upward. This was filmed from the air from the accompanying
> aircraft.

It would be more helpful if someone placed the smoke generators about mid-span
so that the smoke passed over the wing. That would be a much more accurate
indication of how well the outside wing was actually flying.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Tina Marie]

In article >, jsmith wrote:
> There is a movie documenting Richard Bach's late-70's barnstorming trip
> around the country with a pair of Fleet biplanes (same name as the book,
> but I cannot remember what the title is). In one segment, he attaches

The book is "Nothing by Chance" (written in 1969). I see an IMDB
reference (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345722/), but I can't find any
other references to the movie. I'd very much like to see that -
you wouldn't happen to have it on VHS/DVD, would you?

Tina Marie

[Michael]

> And I would read that as "both wings are stalled"... It's a very poorly
> written question or very well written (depending on your point-of-view).

Whether it's well written or poorly written depends not so much on
point of view as context.

If the context is a discussion, it's a very well written question.
It's well written because there is no clear right or wrong answer, and
there is something to discuss, and so it has been discussed. The
discussion is a good one - it goes beyond the simplifications and
misconceptions. It makes clear that a stalled wing still produces some
lift. It brings in the issue of lift curves, and explains what it
means for both wings to be stalled, and yet for one to be more stalled
than the other, and to regain and produce some lift. It's an excellent
learning question. Within the context of a test that is taken and then
reviewed and discussed, it is very appropriate - everyone will learn
something from the review and discussion.

It's a terrible testing question within the testing context used by the
FAA. You take an FAA test, and then you're not even told which
questions you got wrong, only the subject areas. There is no
discussion and review. Thus none of the question's benefits are
realized within the context of the testing method used. Also, since
none of the answers are really right, and yet none are really wrong,
there is no real way to get the question consistently right by knowing
the material, no matter how well you know the material. The only way
to get it consistently right is to have seen it before - and seen the
answer.

Michael

[NoGoals]

George Patterson wrote:
> jsmith wrote:
> > There is a movie documenting Richard Bach's late-70's barnstorming trip
> > around the country with a pair of Fleet biplanes (same name as the book,
> > but I cannot remember what the title is). In one segment, he attaches
> > flares to the wingtips and goes flying, ignites the flares and in the
> > course of the flight, stalls and spins the aircraft. It is at this point
> > the a picture makes clear what is happening with the wings.
> > The smoke from the flare on the outside (flying) wing streams behind the
> > wingtip, while the smoke from the flare on the inside (stalled) wing
> > wafts slowly upward. This was filmed from the air from the accompanying
> > aircraft.
>
> It would be more helpful if someone placed the smoke generators about mid-span
> so that the smoke passed over the wing. That would be a much more accurate
> indication of how well the outside wing was actually flying.

Correct me if I'm wrong (it happened once b-4) but a stalled wing is
one which is not producing enuf lift to hold up the associated weight.
A stalled wing can still be moving forward, even as it falls toward
Momma Earth. Also, in a spin don't you always have one wing rotaring
around a point defined by the lower wingtip? The smoke in the above
example acts exactly as I would expect it to.

I'd answer A.

BTW, does anyone know what answer the FAA considers correct???

> Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
> and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
> Because she smells like a new truck.

---Hilarious!!!!

[George Patterson]

NoGoals wrote:
>
> A stalled wing can still be moving forward, even as it falls toward
> Momma Earth. Also, in a spin don't you always have one wing rotaring
> around a point defined by the lower wingtip? The smoke in the above
> example acts exactly as I would expect it to.

A stalled wing is one in which the airflow has separated from the upper surface
of the wing. It may indeed still be moving forward. Blow smoke across a stalled
wing and you can clearly see the burble in the airflow over the surface. Smoke
generators at the wingtips will not show whether a wing has stalled or not.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[George Patterson]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> George Patterson > wrote:
>
>>A stalled wing is one in which the airflow has separated from the upper surface
>>of the wing.
>
> Nope, this is closer to the right definition, but it's still
> doesn't define a stalled wing.

Jeppessen says you're wrong.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[George Patterson]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
>
> The flow is separated when the wing is stalled, ....

So, as I said, "Blow smoke across a stalled wing and you can clearly see the
burble in the airflow over the surface."

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[George Patterson]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
>
> I thought we were discussing whether a wing with separated
> flow is *by definition* stalled.

Well, *I* was discussing using smoke generators to determine the degree to which
the wing is stalled. Dunno 'bout you.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.