Aircraft type designators new vs. old and ATC

[John]

About 9 years ago, the (USA) FAA had us switch to new aircraft type
designator codes, which were different then what we previously used for
some aircraft. This, like airspace types, four digit identifiers, and
METAR/TAF weather formats was part of the greatness of International
standardization. So fixed gear PA-28s became P28A (i.e. slower
Cherokees 140-181) and P28B for the faster fixed gear Cherokees (235,
236) etc. See http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html

Recently a speaker from our local Class B Tracon mentioned that they
didn't care what type of Cherokee somebody was flying, they were all
entered as PA-28 anyway.

So does the FAA use those identifiers that they made sure we knew about
and use? Usually when I file a flight plan with a four letter airport
ID, it gets converted to the old 3 letter anyway. Do the FAA computers
and radar systems still accept/want the old identifiers?

[[email protected]]

My experience with filing via the AOPA flight planner (which I believe
uses DUATS as its backend) is that it does indeed reject PA-28, PA28,
etc, and only accepts P28A, as you said and the FAA pub say. My CFII at
the time when I discovered this told me I was crazy.

Interesting that the designators for lots of other PA-nn were not
changed around.

-- dave j

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:54:32 -0400, John > wrote:
So fixed gear PA-28s became P28A (i.e. slower
>Cherokees 140-181) and P28B for the faster fixed gear Cherokees (235,
>236) etc. See http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html
>

Well...I guess I've filed as PA28 (archer II) a half dozen times and
havent been yelled at for it yet. I shall get it right next time.
maybe they were input as P28A

Just like at the flight school where we were filing C172 for the
cutlass RG, which should really C72R

methinks a difference of 10-20 knots doesnt make much diff to ATC,
tho. Now the diff between a PA28-140 and a Turbo arrow...that they
might want to know... :)


--Don
Don Byrer
Electronics Technician/Friendly but Sarcastic Pilot
FAA Airways Facilites/Tech Ops, RADAR/Data/Comm @ CLE
Amateur Radio KJ5KB
Instrument Pilot Commercial Student
PP-ASEL 30 Jan 2005 "-IA" 25 Mar 2005

[Newps]

wrote:

> My experience with filing via the AOPA flight planner (which I believe
> uses DUATS as its backend) is that it does indeed reject PA-28, PA28,
> etc, and only accepts P28A,

That's true, for you. The computer will take whatever I enter, however.

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:54:32 -0400, John > wrote in
>::

>So fixed gear PA-28s became P28A (i.e. slower
>Cherokees 140-181) and P28B for the faster fixed gear Cherokees (235,
>236) etc. See http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html
>
>Recently a speaker from our local Class B Tracon mentioned that they
>didn't care what type of Cherokee somebody was flying, they were all
>entered as PA-28 anyway.
>
>So does the FAA use those identifiers that they made sure we knew about
>and use?

Flying a PA28-235, I have been asked by ATC if I'm not a Lance at
times. This was probably due to unusually good performance when
lightly loaded. The little Piper would handily out climb Bonanzas
departing behind me that ATC had routed over me.

[Ron Natalie]

John wrote:

> Recently a speaker from our local Class B Tracon mentioned that they
> didn't care what type of Cherokee somebody was flying, they were all
> entered as PA-28 anyway.
>
I believe some tracons put VFR popups in with only a single letter
type. This explains why my Navion keeps getting called a Navaho
when handed off between sectors.

[[email protected]]

Odd. Do you use the AOPA flight planner? Do you use DUAT?

Here is a snippet of the transaction log from trying it just now on a
VFR flight plan:

DUAT> DOMESTIC;VFR;TAIL N15782;ACTYPE PA28/A;SPEED 110;DEPART
KPAO;ARRIVE KLVK;ETD 2003;FL 31
ERR228: ACTYPE:Invalid Aircraft Type.

And here is it working:
DUAT> DOMESTIC;VFR;TAIL N15782;ACTYPE P28A/A;SPEED 110;DEPART
KPAO;ARRIVE KLVK;ETD 2003;FL 31
OK.
[ ... ]
Your Flight Plan will be transmitted to OAK FSS 1 hour and 56 minutes
from now for a proposed departure at 2003 on 06/
14/2005.

-- dave j

[George Patterson]

wrote:
> Odd. Do you use the AOPA flight planner? Do you use DUAT?

Newps is a controller.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Dave Butler]

wrote:
> Odd. Do you use the AOPA flight planner? Do you use DUAT?

What do you find odd about it?

>
> Here is a snippet of the transaction log from trying it just now on a
> VFR flight plan:
>
> DUAT> DOMESTIC;VFR;TAIL N15782;ACTYPE PA28/A;SPEED 110;DEPART
> KPAO;ARRIVE KLVK;ETD 2003;FL 31
> ERR228: ACTYPE:Invalid Aircraft Type.
>
> And here is it working:
> DUAT> DOMESTIC;VFR;TAIL N15782;ACTYPE P28A/A;SPEED 110;DEPART
> KPAO;ARRIVE KLVK;ETD 2003;FL 31
> OK.
> [ ... ]
> Your Flight Plan will be transmitted to OAK FSS 1 hour and 56 minutes
> from now for a proposed departure at 2003 on 06/
> 14/2005.

[[email protected]]

I didn't know Newps was a controller. I thought he was being cheeky. It
all makes sense now.

-- dave j