A good starting point?

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Forgive the question if it has been beat to death but "What is good a
aircraft to start with in getting a rotorcraft rating? I currently have an
A36 Bonanza with a CP-ASEL. I live in TN. I don't think I want to deal
with R44's based on comments from some in our area. I'm leaning toward the
Bell's due to same comments. But I find it easy to recommend what I know so
I solicit the comments

Thx In Advance, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

I am certainly in need of opinions and indeed would learn in the R22 (near
Chattanooga). My concern is with the live limit on the Robinson products.
Would the rebuild cost come out even when compared with the on-going costs
but w/o the live limit on a Bell? What about 5 pax (and their
handkerchiefs) capability? Would a Raven handle that?

I fly about 300 hrs/yr and 1/2 of it is fly 20min, p/u 2 pax, fly 30 min.
p/u 2 more then on to a meeting. Helicopter seems like a viable option for
my needs. I'm not adverse to the cost within reason. I'll keep the Bo' for
Angel Flights and where weather and distance don't make sense.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

VOsborne2 at charter dot net
"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
message ...
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:01:13 -0400, "Victor J. Osborne, Jr."
> > wrote:
>
>>Forgive the question if it has been beat to death but "What is good a
>>aircraft to start with in getting a rotorcraft rating? I currently have
>>an
>>A36 Bonanza with a CP-ASEL. I live in TN. I don't think I want to deal
>>with R44's based on comments from some in our area. I'm leaning toward
>>the
>>Bell's due to same comments. But I find it easy to recommend what I know
>>so
>>I solicit the comments
>>
>>Thx In Advance, {|;-)
>>
>
> I'm interested in the seemingly negative comments regarding the R44.
> I think the R44 is a very very nice flying machine in which
> autoratations are almost a non-event. , I'm also wondering why you'd
> want to start learning whirly-birds in one. (unless of course you've
> got lots of money)
>
> What about the venerable R22? If you can learn to fly one of those
> well, you can fly pretty much anything well and the operating costs
> for a 22 are much less than a 44.
>
> I know of a school up the line from me that trains in Bell 47Gs, but
> the hourly rate is a bit higher than the 22s as well.
>
> Talking with the AI at my school one day, I asked about prhaps
> aquiring a 47G. He said the maintenance on them is pretty brutal
> money-wise and that drives up the operational costs. He suggested i
> find a nice mid-time (1,000 or so hours) R22 and fly the crap out of
> it until it's timed out then sell it on E-bay...

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Thx for the info. I did see a Raven for $250k. Now I need to start
thinking about the rating while I'm looking. 40hrs+/- for the rating is
going to take a little time.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
message

> The 22s are good to go for 2200 hours (someone correct me if I'm
> wrong) before a complete rebuild is required. Mains are subject to
> more scrutiny due to a couple failures down under. I don't recall the
> specifics but it's on the Robinson web site. The rebuild cost for a
> 22 is something on the order of $80k and you basically end up with a
> new helicopter when it's done.
>
> 5 pax in a 44 won't work. There are only 4 seats in a Raven.
>
> I don't know how the overhaul costs would compare to the Robbies, but
> if you need 5+ seats, you're probably looking at a Bell 206 or
> equivalent.
>
>
> At HAI this past February, there was a 206B for sale in the booth next
> to our.. 14,000 total time, a tick under 1000 hours after a major
> rebuild pretty decent shape and that awesome JetA odor inside..
> Asking price was $450,000 - about $100k over the price of a new R44.
>
>

[B4RT]

"Victor J. Osborne, Jr." > wrote in message
...
> Forgive the question if it has been beat to death but "What is good a
> aircraft to start with in getting a rotorcraft rating? I currently have
> an A36 Bonanza with a CP-ASEL. I live in TN. I don't think I want to
> deal with R44's based on comments from some in our area. I'm leaning
> toward the Bell's due to same comments. But I find it easy to recommend
> what I know so I solicit the comments
>
> Thx In Advance, {|;-)
>
> Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

Consider a Schweizer , Bell 47, Jetranger, Enstrom, or newer R44 ... I've
got no
desire to draw flames here, but theres no damn way you'd get me in a R22.
There's zero margin for error in those machines; thats why theres a SFAR
written
just for it.

Bart

[[email protected]]

Bart
I'll second that feeling. I've got about 25 hours in the R-22 doing my
IFRR and the CFIIR.Thats all I ever care to fly the R-22 no matter what
anyone else says! I've got lots of time in the 269/300, BH47 and
variants, Hiller 12 variants, 206, and F28, etc, so my feelings are
based on personal experience.
Rocky

[B4RT]

> wrote
> Bart
> I'll second that feeling. I've got about 25 hours in the R-22 doing my
> IFRR and the CFIIR.Thats all I ever care to fly the R-22 no matter what
> anyone else says! I've got lots of time in the 269/300, BH47 and
> variants, Hiller 12 variants, 206, and F28, etc, so my feelings are
> based on personal experience.
> Rocky

The only piston heli. I've flown is the F28, which I thought was a
pretty nice machine. My opinion of the R22 stems from when a
friend of mine asked me for advice on cross rating in one.

I read the NTSB reports and then asked a few people at
the hangar who'd flown it what they thought. They told me
about how low inertia the 22's system was, and about the
ease and consequenses getting into unloading or low-rotor rpm.
I then had a hard look at the machine itself. Yikes. I think
the Safari kit chopper looks more substantial than the 22.

No one that I respect had anything bad to say about the 44,
but a couple people said that the newer/higher inerta rotor
system version was a vast improvement. The only people
who said good things about the 22 where those who didn't
really have a choice, or didn't have enough time in anything
else to know better.

Everyone I know who's experienced enough to know said
the Schweizer and Bell 47 where the safest piston training machines.
The only thing I didn't like about the Enstrom was how easy
it was to get it into ground resonance if the oleo struts weren't
tweaked right. Being a huge Bell proponent, I've always
wanted to fly a 47, but the opportunity has never come up.

Rocky, IFR in a 22? Wholey Crap thats a scary thought.
Our 'Ranger is one of the few that were IFR cert'ed
(it no longer is due to a Bell boondogle) Its difficult enough
as it is in our machine, I cant imagine how hard itd be to
do SPIFR in a 22.

Bart