Stars & Stripes "crash" in Florida

[john smith]

Just heard on NPR that the Goodyear blimp, "STARS & STRIPES" crashed
after takeoff from Pompono Beach Florida a short while ago.

[Icebound]

"john smith" > wrote in message
. ..
> Just heard on NPR that the Goodyear blimp, "STARS & STRIPES" crashed after
> takeoff from Pompono Beach Florida a short while ago.

Lots of news about it on the web. Here's one:

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/nation/11920626.htm

[BTIZ]

looked like it was raining pretty hard in the newsreel footage..
BT

"john smith" > wrote in message
. ..
> Just heard on NPR that the Goodyear blimp, "STARS & STRIPES" crashed after
> takeoff from Pompono Beach Florida a short while ago.

[Peter R.]

BTIZ > wrote:

> looked like it was raining pretty hard in the newsreel footage..

Newsreel? That was the Hindenburg you saw there. :)

--
Peter


















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[Jay Honeck]

>> looked like it was raining pretty hard in the newsreel footage..
>
> Newsreel? That was the Hindenburg you saw there. :)

Oh, the humanity!

But it really was a nasty storm they were flying in. From the TV footage,
it's hard to tell whether they were trying to come down, or whether a
down-draft drove them down, but they hit hard and the crew was trapped
inside the wreckage, briefly.

Apparently they were unhurt, however, so that's the good news.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> From the TV footage,
> it's hard to tell whether they were trying to come down, or whether a
> down-draft drove them down, but they hit hard and the crew was trapped
> inside the wreckage, briefly.

Witnesses said the aircraft came down tail first. Apparently they were trying to
climb.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Jose]

> But it really was a nasty storm they were flying in.

What was a blimp doing flying in a thunderstorm?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jimmy B.]

Jose wrote:
>> But it really was a nasty storm they were flying in.
>
>
> What was a blimp doing flying in a thunderstorm?
>
> Jose
Crashing? ;-)

[George Patterson]

Jose wrote:
>
> What was a blimp doing flying in a thunderstorm?

Bad case of "gotta-get-there-itis."

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[BTIZ]

>
>> looked like it was raining pretty hard in the newsreel footage..
>
> Newsreel? That was the Hindenburg you saw there. :)
>
> --
> Peter

I knew I'd get someone... LOL
BT

[Stubby]

George Patterson wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>
>> From the TV footage, it's hard to tell whether they were trying to
>> come down, or whether a down-draft drove them down, but they hit hard
>> and the crew was trapped inside the wreckage, briefly.
>
>
> Witnesses said the aircraft came down tail first. Apparently they were
> trying to climb.

Not clear. My understanding is the attitude of an airship is set by
small "ballonettes" with the gas bag. These are controlled by levers on
the ceiling of the pilot's area. It is not necessary to point the ship
up in order to climb because climbing is accomplished by dumping balast,
water or sand.

In fact the fans (engines) are used for steering, not for lift because
there are no wings. For that reason, a multi-engine certificate is not
required for the pilot.

My guess is they got into a microburst. This is an intense downdraft
following a thunderstorm. All aircraft should avoid flying near
thunderstorms.

[Icebound]

"Stubby" > wrote in message
...
> George Patterson wrote:
>
>> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> From the TV footage, it's hard to tell whether they were trying to come
>>> down, or whether a down-draft drove them down, but they hit hard and the
>>> crew was trapped inside the wreckage, briefly.
>>
>>
>> Witnesses said the aircraft came down tail first. Apparently they were
>> trying to climb.
>
> Not clear. My understanding is the attitude of an airship is set by
> small "ballonettes" with the gas bag. These are controlled by levers on
> the ceiling of the pilot's area. It is not necessary to point the ship up
> in order to climb because climbing is accomplished by dumping balast,
> water or sand.

I don't believe they dump anything anymore. The ballonettes are inflated
with outisde air to make the overall bag heavier for descent (air heavier
than helium), or deflated of regular-air to make the overall bag lighter for
ascent.

>
> In fact the fans (engines) are used for steering, not for lift because
> there are no wings.


Perhaps partially true, but the control surfaces at the tail do include
"elevators" whose purpose is to control the attitude when in forward flight,
and "rudder" to control "steering".

> For that reason, a multi-engine certificate is not required for the pilot.
>
> My guess is they got into a microburst. This is an intense downdraft
> following a thunderstorm. All aircraft should avoid flying near
> thunderstorms.

The most likely scenario.... and which would explain full forward thrust
with "up" elevator to try to climb through it.

[Wizard of Draws]

On 6/18/05 9:57 AM, in article , "Stubby"
> spewed:

>
> Not clear. My understanding is the attitude of an airship is set by
> small "ballonettes" with the gas bag. These are controlled by levers on
> the ceiling of the pilot's area. It is not necessary to point the ship
> up in order to climb because climbing is accomplished by dumping balast,
> water or sand.
>
> In fact the fans (engines) are used for steering, not for lift because
> there are no wings. For that reason, a multi-engine certificate is not
> required for the pilot.

The Goodyear blimp based in Southern California climbs like a banshee, nose
high. It climbs over the freeway which is adjacent to it's landing area. I
don't know, but I assume it needs to cross the freeway at minimum X feet
AGL. I don't know why it doesn't rise straight up instead, but it doesn't.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

[[email protected]]

IIRC the engines on modern blimps swivel for vectored thrust. Perhaps
this particular blimp did not have that feature, but some do.

I grew up right off the runway at Akron (OH) Municipal Airport - where
the dirigibles were built (the old hangar is still there). It was also
a Naval Air Station in those days, and the Navy blimps (and Goodyear's
as well) were an almost daily sight. I observed them climbing at
extreme nose-up angles many times.

David Johnson

[George Patterson]

Stubby wrote:
>
> Not clear.

Yes, it is.

> My understanding is the attitude of an airship is set by
> small "ballonettes" with the gas bag. These are controlled by levers on
> the ceiling of the pilot's area.

That's correct.

> It is not necessary to point the ship
> up in order to climb because climbing is accomplished by dumping balast,
> water or sand.

They don't dump anything. They point the nose up and use the engine thrust to climb.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Skywise]

George Patterson > wrote in
news:MF4te.6191$EH1.2881@trndny03:

> Stubby wrote:
>>
>> Not clear.
>
> Yes, it is.
>
> > My understanding is the attitude of an airship is set by
>> small "ballonettes" with the gas bag. These are controlled by levers
>> on the ceiling of the pilot's area.
>
> That's correct.
>
> > It is not necessary to point the ship
>> up in order to climb because climbing is accomplished by dumping
>> balast, water or sand.
>
> They don't dump anything. They point the nose up and use the engine
> thrust to climb.

Based solely on first hand observation, I agree.

Many years ago I was attending an airshow at Fullerton Mun. (KFUL)
and the Goodyear blimp did some passes as well as a touch & go. It
came in slow and mostly level. When it bounced on it's wheel, the
pilot pitched that thing to what appeared from us on the ground
seemingly under the thing as a 45 degree angle and powered those
engines right up to what was probably full power.

It 'flew' in the direction it was pointing and not 'floated'.

My not 100% educated guess would be that the blimp is trimmed to
neutral buoyancy just like a submarine. Then the engines and control
surfaces are used to 'fly' the vehicle.

I've got pics somewhere....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

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[George Patterson]

Skywise wrote:
>
> My not 100% educated guess would be that the blimp is trimmed to
> neutral buoyancy just like a submarine. Then the engines and control
> surfaces are used to 'fly' the vehicle.

Either AOPA Pilot or Sport Aviation had an article on flying the things a year
or two back. From what I read there, you are correct; they try hard to achieve
neutral buoyancy.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Icebound]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:SY5te.13998$fa3.11503@trndny01...
> Skywise wrote:
>>
>> My not 100% educated guess would be that the blimp is trimmed to
>> neutral buoyancy just like a submarine. Then the engines and control
>> surfaces are used to 'fly' the vehicle.
>
> Either AOPA Pilot or Sport Aviation had an article on flying the things a
> year or two back. From what I read there, you are correct; they try hard
> to achieve neutral buoyancy.
>

To descend for landing, they do need to create a negative buoyancy.

They achieve whatever buoyancy then need by adding or removing outdoor-air
from internal "ballonets" (like bladders). Adding air makes the overall bag
heavier, removing air makes it lighter.

[Dave Butler]

Jose wrote:
>> But it really was a nasty storm they were flying in.
>
>
> What was a blimp doing flying in a thunderstorm?

About 20 knots.

[Jose]

>> What was a blimp doing flying in a thunderstorm?
>
> About 20 knots.

Right. In all directions at once. :)

Jose
--
My other car is up my nose.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.