Dangerous Stuff

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Have been thinking of things to post re;Ag Flying with rotorcraft. I
have to pay more attention to my work though! In many of my fields
here, they are irrigated with sprinkler pivots. Generally I'll have to
fly over them spraying to get the crops underneath. I haven't measured
the tallest points on them, but guess 25'? so I have to kind of
"blooper" over them while spraying. that often poses some interesting
control inputs and that caught my attention today. It requires quick
inputs but absolutely smooth ones to keep things on an even keel. Much
too difficult to describe aside from doing a pitch pull to go up, and a
cyclic push to keep level followed quickly by aft cyclic to flare on
the other side while lowering the collective and then level with cyclic
again, and all the while manipulating the throttle to keep rpms right.
Another point on the turn-arounds, I stay in translational flight all
the way thru so if the engine pukes, I can do a decent auto from
anywhere in the turn.
Got pretty close to some trees on a downwind pullup yesterday. I got
into the shadow, the window was a little dirty, and I lost my depth
perception. So, I realized I'd have to use some other visual points for
my pull up. Nothing dramatic...no pine needles on the booms or no tip
caps smacked <ggg> and didn't brush my skids in the tree tops.....close
enough to make me whistle though...
Have had my loader take some photos and one day we'll get them up.
Often when the wind is calm, the spray hangs in the air and I fly back
thru it which makes my windscreen look like some one sprayed furniture
polish on it, or milk. Its a bitch when you are flying into the rising
sun and obstacles in front of you. bad enough flying into the rising
sun anyway but with a dirty window its worse.
Been flying 8-9 hours a day with some great weather.
Cheers from Finlander country.
Rocky

[SHIVER ME TIMBERS]

> > wrote:

> Cheers from Finlander country.

Another great post Rocky... keep them coming.

Findlander country... eh.

Well I was reading your post the other day about going to the headwater
of the mighty Mississippi and being a tad brain dead I kinda though you
were in the deep south... silly me.

It wasn't until I read a previous post of yours about potato patches in
Minniesota that if dawned on me where the headwaters of the Mississippi
were located.

Hey... you should try some of those Finnish saunas at the end of a day.

I can remember with fond and lusty memories some of the fun I had with
some of my girlfriends in my late teens growing up in Finlander
country.

We used to go down to the Finnish sauna on a Friday or Saturday night
have something sweet like cake, grab some cokes, and retire to a
private sauna room for a couple of hours. Each private sauna came with
a change room with a cot and I can't imagine how many body fluids got
swapped on those cots over the years, but I will guess lots.

It sure beat going out to the local airport to watch the submarine
races on a nippy winter's night.

[[email protected]]

How about this one...Yesterday, the local competitor and good guy,
flying his big 600hp Thrush, was threatened by some jerkwater that if
he ever flew over his property again, he'd shoot him down! Now, the
pilot has been working this area for years and never had any problems.
Then the jerkoff even called the customers office and told THEM he'd
shoot the airplane if it came over his property. Even ID'd himself and
its all on tape. I suspect its gonna get messy. I've had that happen a
number of times, been shot at and missed, shot at and hit. I'm here to
tell you if some asshole threatens to shoot me, he will find himself
handcuffed to a jailbed when he recovers conciousness and I will press
every charge I can think of.
We got blown out today. Had an interesting few moments when I did a
downwind pull-up and was trying to turn over 50' pine trees....couldn't
get it to turn and started losing altitude. thought I'd have to dump
the load when it began to respond and I kept on going. Sure got my
attention though. Thought sure I was going down in the timber. Oooouch
I'll guess the wind at my altitude was probably blowing 20+-
Wheeeew
Rocky

[[email protected]]

Another interesting day.... Was finished with a field and had a cleanup
load in the hopper sitting on the truck at idle. Out of the haze came a
humoungous thunderstorm from behind me...the wind shifted 180 so fast I
couldn't get off the truck safely with a load. So I had to shut it down
and wait it out. The wind kicked up to about 50-60, the blades kept
"sailing" and flapping. I sat there strapped in literally flying the
helicopter with that strong wind behind me and hoping I didn't get
blown off the truck. Heavy heavy rain was forcing its way in thrugh the
rear of the doors and I got soaked. After perhaps :20 minutes the storm
blew on by and things settled back down. I fired it up, lifted off and
sprayed out the load and quit for the day. What an interesting
experience!
Cheers
Rocky

wrote:
> How about this one...Yesterday, the local competitor and good guy,
> flying his big 600hp Thrush, was threatened by some jerkwater that if
> he ever flew over his property again, he'd shoot him down! Now, the
> pilot has been working this area for years and never had any problems.
> Then the jerkoff even called the customers office and told THEM he'd
> shoot the airplane if it came over his property. Even ID'd himself and
> its all on tape. I suspect its gonna get messy. I've had that happen a
> number of times, been shot at and missed, shot at and hit. I'm here to
> tell you if some asshole threatens to shoot me, he will find himself
> handcuffed to a jailbed when he recovers conciousness and I will press
> every charge I can think of.
> We got blown out today. Had an interesting few moments when I did a
> downwind pull-up and was trying to turn over 50' pine trees....couldn't
> get it to turn and started losing altitude. thought I'd have to dump
> the load when it began to respond and I kept on going. Sure got my
> attention though. Thought sure I was going down in the timber. Oooouch
> I'll guess the wind at my altitude was probably blowing 20+-
> Wheeeew
> Rocky

[SHIVER ME TIMBERS]

> > wrote:

> What an interesting experience!

And another interesting story.

That's the sort of stuff that makes this newsgroup worth reading.

[[email protected]]

You remind me of the time I got lost in the Bayuda desert in Egypt
while ferrying an Ag Husky (cessna) from Cairo to Khartoum. It was 10
hours into the flight and I had missed a checkpoint. No navaids except
an ONC chart. anyway, I got caught in a sandstorm and was forced down
to about 500' adl (above desert level..<gg>) when I came up on the
Nile. I elected to stay with it since my fuel state was now down to an
hour and I had 2 hours to Khartoum. If I was going down I wanted to
stick close to water. then I popped out of the storm and decided to
land in the nearest flat piece I could see. Way out in the distance I
saw what appeared toa be a road and headed for the landing. Lo and
behold it was a dirt strip! I landed and taxied in to the parking area.
didn't even have time for the engine to cool down when the sand storm
hit. I tried to get out but the wind and sand was just too fierce. Then
the temps in the cockpit drove me out and I hunkered down under the
tail on the downwind side. Then it began to rain mud drops and I got
out in it to wash down some of the sweat. The rain became clear and the
wind died down. water was about ankle deep by then. I saw one of my
tires had gone flat so I just got out the half gallon of Scotch I was
taking to the guys in Khartoum and poured a stiff one, sat down and
started to relax.
Yahoooo
Rocky

[[email protected]]

Clean up loads or passes are for the edges of the fields or around
obstacles so nothing gets untreated in the field. Sometimes we also do
a rinse load and it is sprayed on the target field so we have a clean
system when we head for the next field. Some pilots refer to them as
"headland" passes.
Rocky

[[email protected]]

In case anyone is interested, been doing some busy days of late.
Several 10+ hours days in the cockpit. Weather cooperated and we had to
get caught up. Get caught up and then have to sit again for a day or
two...now busy trying to get caught up again! It will go this way all
season. This morning we began at daylight and the wind got us about
0800 after a couple hundred acres. so I spent the rest of the a.m.
cleaning the blades and sealing a leak on one of the hopper tanks. Took
a nap and it was much appreciated even though I get a good nights
sleep. Another pilot I know calls them "safety naps" and it is so
appropriate.
Several times in the wind I've noticed a really hard time getting
turned around. I can't help but wonder where in hell some people say
the wind has no affect on performance. I guess they have never done any
ag work. I had a discussion with Barry Schiff re; clean blades and
their affect on performance. While I have enormous for him and his
career, I wish he could experience the difference in dirty blades/wings
in crop dusting vs clean/polished blades/wings. I think he'd rearrange
his thinking on that subject.
In the earliest discussion here I was accused of being too cavalier or
nonchalant about the dangers involved and poo pooed the damage I had
incurred while crop spraying/dusting. There is no doubt this is one of
the more dangerous aspects of flying in putting ourselves in the red
zone on every flight we make and requiring that we make zero mistakes
lest we end up in the emergency room and on the News At 9.
Even so, after 39 years of doing it, I still get a smile on my face
when the day goes right, the turns are like on rails, the spray pattern
is moving slowly downwind, there are no bumps and the engine is smooth,
the blades are smooth and there is no hop to anything....and the money
meter is going Ka Chingggg.....
Oh yessss.....ag flying is unique and satisfying in a particular way.
Rocky

[Franklin Newton]

Not being rotory rated I can't compare clean on blades, but the Cessna C188
suffers terribly when the L/E is dirty and the Weatherly 201B flies on just
the same, I think airfoil section,among other attributes, has a lot to do
with it and most blades have a symmetrical section.Keep up the good work
Rocky, by the way, what's your average field size you're working there?

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> In case anyone is interested, been doing some busy days of late.
> Several 10+ hours days in the cockpit. Weather cooperated and we had to
> get caught up. Get caught up and then have to sit again for a day or
> two...now busy trying to get caught up again! It will go this way all
> season. This morning we began at daylight and the wind got us about
> 0800 after a couple hundred acres. so I spent the rest of the a.m.
> cleaning the blades and sealing a leak on one of the hopper tanks. Took
> a nap and it was much appreciated even though I get a good nights
> sleep. Another pilot I know calls them "safety naps" and it is so
> appropriate.
> Several times in the wind I've noticed a really hard time getting
> turned around. I can't help but wonder where in hell some people say
> the wind has no affect on performance. I guess they have never done any
> ag work. I had a discussion with Barry Schiff re; clean blades and
> their affect on performance. While I have enormous for him and his
> career, I wish he could experience the difference in dirty blades/wings
> in crop dusting vs clean/polished blades/wings. I think he'd rearrange
> his thinking on that subject.
> In the earliest discussion here I was accused of being too cavalier or
> nonchalant about the dangers involved and poo pooed the damage I had
> incurred while crop spraying/dusting. There is no doubt this is one of
> the more dangerous aspects of flying in putting ourselves in the red
> zone on every flight we make and requiring that we make zero mistakes
> lest we end up in the emergency room and on the News At 9.
> Even so, after 39 years of doing it, I still get a smile on my face
> when the day goes right, the turns are like on rails, the spray pattern
> is moving slowly downwind, there are no bumps and the engine is smooth,
> the blades are smooth and there is no hop to anything....and the money
> meter is going Ka Chingggg.....
> Oh yessss.....ag flying is unique and satisfying in a particular way.
> Rocky
>

[[email protected]]

Frank
About 100 acres.....mostly pivots and 1/4 sections. A couple of small
fields but some big ones too like 160 clean runs. It is the easiest
spraying I've ever done! some wires on edges but I don't have to duck
under any of them. Have to hop over the sprinklers sosmetimes but is
the easy stuff. Got one pair joined and one mile runs.... gravy
dripping off my chin at 5 gpa!
I looked at the company WASP's a few days ago and they sure do look
nice. Perhaps I'll get some time in them before I'm done here. they
haul 100 ga every load. I've just got a tired engine is all I think.
I'm doing great with 80 but more like 65 daily.
Blown out just now after daylight loads to beat the wind and only got
215 done.
Cheers
Rocky
p.s. did you ever use the trick of SaranWrap on the leading edges and
you can just peel off a layer at the end of the day for a clean edge?
Have not tried it on rotor.

[Tim]

Is there a "proper" tape for protecting the leading edge ? Reason I ask, is
talking to some boy`s that work on WRC rally car`s a lot, They use a thick
transparent about 3inch wide tape to protect bit`s, They call it helicopter
tape and said that`s what it`s original design was for ?
Tim

> Rocky
> p.s. did you ever use the trick of SaranWrap on the leading edges and
> you can just peel off a layer at the end of the day for a clean edge?
> Have not tried it on rotor.
>

[B4RT]

I've tried a bunch of stuff on my MR to keep salt from building up on it.
The only thing that seems to work is coating the leading edge with
Corrosion X HD, but you have to do it pretty frequently. My
Jet Ranger used to have a heavy teflon tape on the leading edge, but
Maintenance removed it for some reason that has yet to be explained
to me.

3M makes a leading edge abrasion tape (for planes). I think you can find
it at Aircraft Spruce. I have it on one of my airplanes and it works
nicely
at protecting but its a tad harder to clean than a painted surface and you
have to avoid using degreasers on it.

Bart

"Tim" <h> wrote in message
...
> Is there a "proper" tape for protecting the leading edge ? Reason I ask,
> is talking to some boy`s that work on WRC rally car`s a lot, They use a
> thick transparent about 3inch wide tape to protect bit`s, They call it
> helicopter tape and said that`s what it`s original design was for ?
> Tim
>
>> Rocky
>> p.s. did you ever use the trick of SaranWrap on the leading edges and
>> you can just peel off a layer at the end of the day for a clean edge?
>> Have not tried it on rotor.
>>
>
>

[Franklin Newton]

Actually there is a "proper " tape and it's been used mostly for erosion
control by various militarys including or own, I can look up the P/N if
there's a need, don't know all the aircraft it has been on though.

"B4RT" > wrote in message
...
> I've tried a bunch of stuff on my MR to keep salt from building up on it.
> The only thing that seems to work is coating the leading edge with
> Corrosion X HD, but you have to do it pretty frequently. My
> Jet Ranger used to have a heavy teflon tape on the leading edge, but
> Maintenance removed it for some reason that has yet to be explained
> to me.
>
> 3M makes a leading edge abrasion tape (for planes). I think you can find
> it at Aircraft Spruce. I have it on one of my airplanes and it works
> nicely
> at protecting but its a tad harder to clean than a painted surface and you
> have to avoid using degreasers on it.
>
> Bart
>
> "Tim" <h> wrote in message
> ...
> > Is there a "proper" tape for protecting the leading edge ? Reason I ask,
> > is talking to some boy`s that work on WRC rally car`s a lot, They use a
> > thick transparent about 3inch wide tape to protect bit`s, They call it
> > helicopter tape and said that`s what it`s original design was for ?
> > Tim
> >
> >> Rocky
> >> p.s. did you ever use the trick of SaranWrap on the leading edges and
> >> you can just peel off a layer at the end of the day for a clean edge?
> >> Have not tried it on rotor.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

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Frank
I'd like to see it. Will ask our shop if they use it on any of the ag
machines. The sandy soil here in spud country is really tough on
blades. I imagine not as bad as Iraq though!
Company has several WASP's and I took a look last week. Look nice and
sound like performers. My engine is due this winter if it lasts the
season.....
Another 12 hr in the cockpit yesterday and probably 8 today to get
caught up.
Cheers
Rocky

[Franklin Newton]

OK, I'll dig up a MFG and P/N, maybe there's an approval for the 47 series,
if not you would have to get an approval for the mod, should be easy, just
tell the DER what you would like to do n why, cite your research (documented
uses) write a procedure for application of tape, balance, interchangeability
maybe continues maintenance and stand back, DER does the number crunching
and forwards it to the FAA.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Frank
> I'd like to see it. Will ask our shop if they use it on any of the ag
> machines. The sandy soil here in spud country is really tough on
> blades. I imagine not as bad as Iraq though!
> Company has several WASP's and I took a look last week. Look nice and
> sound like performers. My engine is due this winter if it lasts the
> season.....
> Another 12 hr in the cockpit yesterday and probably 8 today to get
> caught up.
> Cheers
> Rocky
>

[[email protected]]

Well, old guys like me learn to pace ourselves. I don't crank it around
in the turns like I used to, I don't press it or take any chances that
make my heart go thump thump thump. I tell myself frequently to focus
on the job and try not to let my attention wander off to the the next
field, or maintenance things, or....? Its hard to do and takes
discipline. You are flying close enough to nearly everything you can
imagine and can't afford any mental lapses lest you hit something.
I get really fatigued after getting up at 0430, and frequently not to
bed until 2100 or later. I have to make myself eat at night to keep my
battery charged. But, thats why I make the money I do in such a short
time. I've covered over 6600 acres this month so far and that will;
easily double or perhaps even triple by end of month. We'll get maybe a
couple days off with weather or when we get caught up on the schedule.
Like I said earlier, its not a job for everyone.
Rocky

[[email protected]]

Good friend of mine lives over in El Cajones and has pics and video of
me working up in the San Joaquin years ago. I'm sure he share them with
you...being pilots and all! Check his web - aerobaticBox.com and see
his friends page. got a pic I think of me flying an AgCat? Can't
recall.
Anyway, drop him an email for contacts.
Rocky

[Brett Sumpter]

Be careful with the tape, if it starts coming off life can get
interesting - if you think dirty blades are bad, you haven't seen
anything yet. Just keep an eye on it & replace it before it starts
wearing through the leading edge.

I've used it on Bell 47's & Hiller 12's - can't tell you if it was
"approved", but it definitely saves wear & tear on the blade. You'll
want to have the exact same length on both blades in the exact same
location, or you'll be rebalancing...


On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:01:07 GMT, "Franklin Newton"
> wrote:

>Actually there is a "proper " tape and it's been used mostly for erosion
>control by various militarys including or own, I can look up the P/N if
>there's a need, don't know all the aircraft it has been on though.

[[email protected]]

We went for sushi one evening there in El Cajones and he tried some.
Also introduced him to chivas regal and Drambuie. He and I have flown
together several times including time in a Stearman and a Hiller 12E.
It was his wedding that my wife and I went to over in MXL in May just
before I came up here to fly. He is a great guy and loves to fly
aerobatics.
Rocky

[Shiver]

> The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote:

> I prefer 18 year old Glenmorangie single malt and fish tacos

And people think I'm weird because every so often I like to
buy a quart (litre) of cream and drink it.

Scotch whiskey and fish tacos - Sorry Kevin but it makes
my stomach do flip flops just thinking about it.

[Shiver]

> The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote:

> hehe, I guess I should have specified not at the same time. Fish
> Tacos with beer.. The scotch is for sittin' on my patio and sippin'
> away the evening.

Hey when I was a kid I used to take a lemon to school for my recess
break.

Nobody, and I mean nobody ever asked me to trade.

[[email protected]]

Brett
Had the same thoughts. We used it for a while in ag work in CA but it
was such a pain to redo all the time and YES it can get exciting if you
shed some tape....!! However, if it can save blades in a really harsh
environment it is worth serious consideration. I like to use plan old
carnuba wax on them once a week or so. Extra work and hard on the
shoulders but well worth the effort when working off the truck.
Rocky