Another DC ADIZ incursion

[Corky Scott]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but there was another ADIZ
incursion Thursday night. Like the C 150, this one too caused
evacuations of the White House and the airplane, a twin, was
intercepted and escorted out of the area.

Corky Scott

[Paul kgyy]

They were dodging Tstorms, This whole thing is so silly it isn't worth
further comment.

[Peter Duniho]

"Corky Scott" > wrote in message
...
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but there was another ADIZ
> incursion Thursday night. Like the C 150, this one too caused
> evacuations of the White House and the airplane, a twin, was
> intercepted and escorted out of the area.

Do you have a news report link? I hadn't heard of one last night until you
posted, but there was one earlier this week that was discussed here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aviation.piloting/browse_thread/thread/26b3a0c794e8bab6/7216afb0b361e9d9#7216afb0b361e9d9

Pete

[John T]

"Corky Scott" > wrote in message

>
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but there was another ADIZ
> incursion Thursday night. Like the C 150, this one too caused
> evacuations of the White House and the airplane, a twin, was
> intercepted and escorted out of the area.

It was mentioned. I'm waiting on more details, but there were some very
nasty thunderstorms in the area on Wednesday and a couple of stories I saw
mentioned the pilot deviated due to weather. Also, the pilot had already
turned away before the interceptors got there.

I haven't seen a flight track yet nor have I seen evidence they were talking
to ATC. Given the choice between violating the ADIZ/FRZ (perhaps while
making a 180 turn?) or penetrating thunderstorms of even lesser magnitude
than those monsters Wednesday, I'd violate the airspace and take my lumps.
Without seeing the flight track and cross-referencing that with the location
of T-storm cells at the time, I'm willing to give the crew the benefit of
the doubt.

This is a far, far cry from Shaeffer's pitiful navigation.

--
John T
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[Jose]

> This is a far, far cry from Shaeffer's pitiful navigation.

Shaeffer's navigation was impeccable. What was pitiful was , use of
outdated charts in his flight planning, and lack of a "pilot in command"
mindset (he reportedly froze at the controls when the escorts showed up).

But he reportedly navigated perfectly through a corridor that was no
longer there.

Jose
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[John T]

"Jose" > wrote in message
m
>
> But he reportedly navigated perfectly through a corridor that was no
> longer there.

Not according to the flight path I've seen. There were two VFR flyways in
the DC area: One SW of BWI that ran NW - SE. The other was East of IAD and
ran N - S. Shaeffer's path took him nowhere close to following either of
those corridors.

http://tinyurl.com/9h79a

- or -

http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer/PermaLink,guid,4ebaf403-5dbd-479f-8514-355334db4275.aspx

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John T
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[Jose]

>> But he reportedly navigated perfectly through a corridor that was no
>> longer there.
>
> Not according to the flight path I've seen. There were two VFR flyways in
> the DC area: One SW of BWI that ran NW - SE. The other was East of IAD and
> ran N - S. Shaeffer's path took him nowhere close to following either of
> those corridors.

I did not see the flight path or old charts. However, an AOPA lawyer
(that is, a lawyer that is part of the AOPA plan) spoke at a seminar
about FAA enforcement, and told the group that Shaeffer was right in (or
aimed at, I forget which) the old corridor.

Jose
--
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[BTIZ]

which is worse.. the TRW or the Govt' bureaucracy


"Paul kgyy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> They were dodging Tstorms, This whole thing is so silly it isn't worth
> further comment.
>

[John T]

Jose wrote:
>
> I did not see the flight path or old charts. However, an AOPA lawyer
> (that is, a lawyer that is part of the AOPA plan) spoke at a seminar
> about FAA enforcement, and told the group that Shaeffer was right in
> (or aimed at, I forget which) the old corridor.

Here's the direct link to the flight path superimposed on a Washington
sectional:
http://www.tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer/content/binary/AdizFlightPath.png

The BWI flyway starts near the number 3 on the red line and points SE. The
number 6 is on the western edge of the IAD corridor.

Shaeffer's flight path was not in line with any of the VFR flyways in the DC
area. The only time he was "right in" one of the flyways was between points
5 and 6 as he crossed the IAD flyway.

Either the Washington Post's graphic (drawn up from radar track data) or the
lawyer is wrong. Since neither of the VFR flyways goes over downtown DC and
neither of them point toward downtown, I'm not inclined to believe the
lawyer.

--
John T
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[Jose]

>> I did not see the flight path or old charts. However, an AOPA lawyer
>> (that is, a lawyer that is part of the AOPA plan) spoke at a seminar
>> about FAA enforcement, and told the group that Shaeffer was right in
>> (or aimed at, I forget which) the old corridor.
>
> Here's the direct link to the flight path superimposed on a Washington
> sectional:
> http://www.tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer/content/binary/AdizFlightPath.png

Thanks.

I took out three old TCA charts (or TAC charts, whatever) and you are
right, even back then there wasn't a flyway where he was heading
(although on my 1993 combined Baltimore-Washington chart there is a
flyway between #2 and #3 around Baltimore, it does not extend into the
DC area, where class A extends to the surface and National's airspace
extends over the river)

So, I conclude that he was not intending to use "the old corridor in the
DC area", unless his charts predate 1982, which is the oldest one I have.

Interestingly, on that chart I have a wiggly line drawn in highlight
marker that follows highways and secondary roads through Baltimore (with
an odd detour to an unnamed VFR reporting point in Baltimore and back),
then to DC via Route 1 and direct to the captiol building, and a sharp
right turn past the observatory and following the little roads passing
through Frederick and then off the chart. In addition, airport and
airspace data is highlighted along the path in the Baltimore area. I
have no idea what that was for, and there are no flights in my logbook
in the area for this time period.

Should I have the chart dusted for fingerprints? :)

Jose
--
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