Flying a 172 with Autopilot?

[VE5JL]

Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?

I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.

I'd like some opinions.

thx

Joe


http://www.ve5jl.com

[CriticalMass]

VE5JL wrote:
> Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
>
> I'd like some opinions.

OK, here's mine.

An autopilot is not "necessary" in any airplane, as long as there's
someone on board capable of flying it manually.

Now, if the question were, "Is an autopilot convenient?", the answer is,
sure it is, regardless of the length of the flight.

You're gonna' get a lot of opinions about autopilots and single-pilot
IFR, yada, yada, yada, so...............let 'er rip.

[Peter R.]

VE5JL > wrote:

> Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
>
> I'd like some opinions.

Based on about 500 hours logged in a C172SP equipped with a NAV II package
(dual axis autopilot, IFR GPS, multifuinction display), my experience
suggests that an autopilot definitely contributed to the overall safety of
each of my flights, especially since most were flown as single pilot in
Northeast US IMC or night time.

Of course, the caveat is that you must still monitor the autopilot's
performance by scanning the gauges and be ready to take back control if
something doesn't appear right.

Once while cruising in IMC, the C172 suddenly began a turn to the right,
off course. Despite validating the course, GPS/NAV switch, and course, the
AP still wanted to turn to the right. After a couple of attempts, I
concluded that there must have been a problem with the AP and pulled the
breaker, hand-flying the remaining route and back.

Later that week, maintenance had discovered that the servo that controlled
the right aileron had failed.

--
Peter


















----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Jay Honeck]

> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.

A simple wing leveler (single axis autopilot) is a Godsend on long flights.
Mine tracks a heading and is really nice, especially during the Dog Days of
summer when the horizon is milky and holding a heading by reference to
ground landmarks becomes more difficult.

It's also a nice safety feature -- one that JFK, Jr. could (and should) have
used to save his life.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Gardner]

I second the motion for a wing-leveler. Anything more than that is icing on
the cake. If one likes to shoot ILSs to minimums, a nav tracker would pay
off...but I do not think that the average recreational flyer pushes the
envelope that hard.

Bob Gardner

"VE5JL" > wrote in message
news:R4fye.1866495$6l.1009425@pd7tw2no...
> Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
>
> I'd like some opinions.
>
> thx
>
> Joe
>
>
> http://www.ve5jl.com
>
>

[Greg Farris]

I trust, and use the autopilots in the later 172's (R and SP). It's a real
work-saver, and as such contributes to the safety and comfort of the flight.
The recent 182's have the same setup. You can do some basic tests before
takeoff, to make sure it's doing more or less what it's supposed to.

I recently rented an older 172, with a Nav-o-Matic relic. I've never flown
with one of those things, so I left it alone. For all I know, it's just as
reliable.

G Faris

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

VE5JL wrote:
> Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.



There's a lot to be said for an autopilot on any any aircraft you fly if you
ever go single pilot IFR. Just being able to "let George do it" while you try
to figure out the entry to an unexpected holding pattern is very useful.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Jay Honeck]

> I recently rented an older 172, with a Nav-o-Matic relic. I've never flown
> with one of those things, so I left it alone. For all I know, it's just as
> reliable.

"Nav-O-Matic"??

Was there a coin slot, or had it been upgraded to accept dollar bills?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jon Kraus]

I don't know if any of you out there have tried Jay's "fruit for
breakfast and lunch" diet but I did and have these results to post:

I have been doing my own version of this for 6 weeks or so. I started
out for the first week or two doing exactly what Jay did. After 2 weeks
I could no longer eat fruit for every lunch so I started just trying to
be sensible about my lunch intake. I no longer am stopping at Taco Bell
and eating 1000 calories of that stuff for lunch. I also am only
allowing myself 1 can of regular soda per day instead of my usual 3 or
so. I then eat pretty much whatever I want for dinner and just watch my
portions.

Results: went from 200# to 189#. I think if I decide to throw a little
exercise in there I would probably drop another 10#. We'll see. I am
jsut happy as hell to be below 190#

Thanks Jay for starting me on this journey!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201

[Don Tuite]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:49:46 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> I recently rented an older 172, with a Nav-o-Matic relic. I've never flown
>> with one of those things, so I left it alone. For all I know, it's just as
>> reliable.
>
>"Nav-O-Matic"??
>
>Was there a coin slot, or had it been upgraded to accept dollar bills?
>
Nav-O-Matic seems to be different than the Tactair we have int he
club's '61 172. The Tactair is a wing-leveler that also tracks the
DG. It is all-pneumatic -- everything, including the servo motors,
runs off the vacuum system. Heading input comes from a special DG
with two knobs and two old-style rings, one above the other. You set
one ring like an ordinary DG and you set the other for desired
heading. Then the AP tries to make them match.

It's good for folding charts. After a while, it tends to hunt. There
are a couple of screws for adjusting damping factor, but on our
installation, one is only a rumor in the owners manual. If it exists,
it is behind so many other things in back of the panel, nobody can
locate it.

It's like the fellow said about women preachers. . . .

Don

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:08:10 +0200, Greg Farris >
wrote:

> You can do some basic tests before
>takeoff, to make sure it's doing more or less what it's supposed to.

According to the flight supplement, you're required to do the basic
tests before takeoff if you're going to use it during the flight ;)

Personally I try and use the airline philosophy: use all the
automation you have for as much of the time as you can. The FITS
training I got with the new 172 encouraged this as well. They even do
some demos on how to fly partial-panel with the AP in roll mode and
shoot a non-precision approach. So, all my cross countries are
autopilot (dual axis w/ preselect) on at 800' AGL and back off
entering the pattern (VMC) or at the FAF (IMC or VMC straight-in). I
hand fly some local flights every couple of weeks for proficiency
(keep myself able to hand fly to the instrument rating standards,
practice some maneuvers and approaches, etc).

[Jose]

There's an autopilot in our club archers and dakota, but I almost never
use them. For one thing I feel like a passenger if I don't have my hand
on the wheel, and for another, I treat every flight as a training
flight. I don't see how one can remain proficient when George has all
the fun. I just like to hand-fly, even on long flights.

That said, a simple wing leveler is great to have while copying an IFR
clearance, or folding maps, or any time the load factor gets a bit high.
If you do much IFR, a simple George is nice to have.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
>
> "Nav-O-Matic"??
>
> Was there a coin slot, or had it been upgraded to accept dollar bills?

It was good for making avionics guys' boat payments, perhaps that's
where it got its name.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Don Hammer]

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:56:19 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

>There's an autopilot in our club archers and dakota, but I almost never
>use them. For one thing I feel like a passenger if I don't have my hand
>on the wheel, and for another, I treat every flight as a training
>flight. I don't see how one can remain proficient when George has all
>the fun. I just like to hand-fly, even on long flights.
>
>That said, a simple wing leveler is great to have while copying an IFR
>clearance, or folding maps, or any time the load factor gets a bit high.
> If you do much IFR, a simple George is nice to have.
>
>Jose

With the latest DRVSM airspace rules, hand flying a jet at altitude
has become a thing of the past. No autopilot and you are stuck below
FL290. Not that anyone hand flew in cruise unless they had to anyway.
If the autopilot broke, it always automatically became the first
officer's leg. :-)

[Jose]

> With the latest DRVSM airspace rules, hand flying a jet at altitude
> has become a thing of the past.

LOL. The OP was referring to a C-172; I fly Cherokees. I don't know of
any jet powered 172s or Cherokee, and have never seen any above FL 290
anyway.

Actually a jet conversion might be interesting. I like to fly low, so I
don't really care about the FL290 restriction - I'd light the
afterburners at 500 feet and scream along the treetops. My passengers
would just scream. :)

It would be way cooler than the turbo tomahawk used in some ATC examples
at Sun'n'Fun, although there might be a problem loading enough fuel on
board to actually taxi to the runway, let alone take off.

That is, take off the wings as the engine rips its way through the
fuselage and tumbles down the runway.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[TF]

Used it today on a 172SP. It was only an hour flight but it came in handy
flying through Philly class B airspace to Lancaster. I'm a new pilot and
having a solid lock on altitude and heading with afternoon thermals while
dialing through at least 4 radio changes helps enormously. I'm sure ATC
appreciates me holding course as well. Nice really nice, and I didn't
forget how to land the plane.


"VE5JL" > wrote in message
news:R4fye.1866495$6l.1009425@pd7tw2no...
> Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
>
> I'd like some opinions.
>
> thx
>
> Joe
>
>
> http://www.ve5jl.com
>
>

[Doug]

A good working autopilot is great for long trips and a safety
enhancement in IFR. They do seem to need a bit of maintenance. Mine has
needed $2200 worth in about 2000 hours. It is currently not working
again. In smooth air my simple Century I flies a very straight line. I
recently took a long trip without it and found myself veering around
more than I would like. I do think someone who flies behind an
autopilot comes to rely upon it. Make sure you are competent without
it. The trip without it did me quite a bit of good, I believe. I don't
use it for training in IFR and only use it in cruise in actual. I do my
climbouts and approaches without it. Of course the airliners all have
them now, and use them almost constantly. Make sure you read the manual
and find out as much as you can about yours. They all seem to work a
little differently.

[Morgans]

"Jose" > wrote

> Actually a jet conversion might be interesting. I like to fly low, so I
> don't really care about the FL290 restriction - I'd light the
> afterburners at 500 feet and scream along the treetops. My passengers
> would just scream. :)

> That is, take off the wings as the engine rips its way through the
> fuselage and tumbles down the runway.

<chuckle> The guy that has the jet powered Waco doesn't have an
afterburner, but doesn't need it. He came to speak at our Aviation
Explorer's base a couple years ago, and one of the kids asked how fast it
would go if he kept it at full throttle, level.

He replied something like, "I duno, probably about 300, before the wings
ripped off." <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jose wrote:
> That is, take off the wings as the engine rips its way through the
> fuselage and tumbles down the runway.



Bitch, bitch, bitch....




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Doug wrote:
> use it for training in IFR and only use it in cruise in actual. I do my
> climbouts and approaches without it.


Well, that's me as well. I always used mine in cruise only... VFR or IFR. I
always hand fly climb outs and approaches... always have....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Kai Glaesner]

Jay,


> "Nav-O-Matic"??
>
> Was there a coin slot, or had it been upgraded to accept dollar bills?

Was the Tricycle gear on a Cessna not called "Land-O-Matic"? For some folks
I know they should upgrade it to accept only LARGE bills..... ;-)

Best regards

Kai

[Jay Honeck]

> Results: went from 200# to 189#. I think if I decide to throw a little
> exercise in there I would probably drop another 10#. We'll see. I am jsut
> happy as hell to be below 190#
>
> Thanks Jay for starting me on this journey!!

Awesome, Jon! I didn't mean to start a new "Pilot's Diet" here, but what
the heck.

BTW: After several months, I'm still with it, and expect to be for life.
The strawberries at this time of year are awesome -- big as plums, and sweet
as candy. I'm munching on them all day long, am never hungry (I throw in
apples, bananas, and an occasional flavored rice cake once in a while, for
variety), my blood pressure is normal (the whole reason for starting this,
as you may recall) -- and, best of all, I'm at my target weight of 175
pounds!

I haven't weighed 175 since COLLEGE, 23 years ago. It's an amazing
feeling, having your pants fall off without a belt! :-)

23 pounds have melted away, almost without effort. I'm never hungry (did I
already say that?), and I still eat one "normal" meal each day, which can
include ANYTHING. Cake, pie, ice cream, beer, margaritas, fried chicken --
who cares? Whatever you want to eat, it's yours, cuz you've eaten nothing
but healthy fruits all day long, eliminating tons of fat and calories from
your diet.

Knowing that the "Reward Meal" is waiting at the end of the day makes eating
fruit easy -- especially when I'm literally gorging myself on the stuff.
And something interesting I've discovered: After a month or two of eating
fruit all day long, your capacity for greasy fried foods goes way down. You
would think I'd be absolutely stuffing myself with cheesecake at the end of
a "fruity" day -- but that's just not the case. I don't know if your
stomach shrinks, or if your tastes change, or what, but I'll sit down ready
to really go at it, and I'll be full LONG before I expected to be.

And, finally, no more Tums, Rolaids, or Prilosec every night, because I
don't have acid reflux anymore. That has been an unexpected and VERY nice
side effect.

I think I've stumbled across the easiest, most successful diet, ever.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

The eye plays funny tricks at this hour of the morning. I would have SWORN
the first time I read this it said that "your testes change".

{;-)

Jim




> a "fruity" day -- but that's just not the case. I don't know if your
> stomach shrinks, or if your tastes change, or what, but I'll sit down
> ready to really go at it, and I'll be full LONG before I expected to be.
>

[Jim Burns]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> The eye plays funny tricks at this hour of the morning. I would have
SWORN
> the first time I read this it said that "your testes change".
>

Well.... Jay did say "fruity" and.... "It's an amazing
feeling, having your pants fall off without a belt!"

Maybe!

Jim Burns

[Jay Honeck]

> > The eye plays funny tricks at this hour of the morning. I would have
> SWORN
> > the first time I read this it said that "your testes change".
> >
>
> Well.... Jay did say "fruity" and.... "It's an amazing
> feeling, having your pants fall off without a belt!"
>
> Maybe!

You know, I expect this kind of stuff from the Left Coasters -- but
from a fellow-Wisconsinite?

That ain't right...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Scott Migaldi]

Yes.
I used it all the time when in actual IMC as a work saver and safety
improver. It could be coupled in to the NAV1 CDI and that then could be
switched to GPS or a VOR. It was nic eon the R and S model as there is
GPS steering and I could watch the plane fly it self onto course.

On my plane, a Warrior, I have an older version of an autopilot without
GPS steering but I have a LOC-BC setting that makes flying those
approaches a little easier.

then on any long flight it is just nice to be able to set a heading and
relax a little. My friend has altitude hold on his plane. I do not like
it as much as I can trim the plane and hold alitude better than the AP can.

Scott
--------------------
Scott F. Migaldi
CP-ASEL-IA
N8116B

PADI MI-150972
Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/

--------------------

VE5JL wrote:
> Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
> I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
>
> I'd like some opinions.
>
> thx
>
> Joe
>
>
> http://www.ve5jl.com
>
>


--

[Jim Burns]

> You know, I expect this kind of stuff from the Left Coasters -- but
> from a fellow-Wisconsinite?
>
> That ain't right...

ROFL :) I'm just glad you responded!! If you hadn't I'd have been REALLY
worried!! :)
Jim

[john smith]

I think your eyes saw the word "shrink" and you mind then saw what it
wanted to see.

RST Engineering wrote:
> The eye plays funny tricks at this hour of the morning. I would have SWORN
> the first time I read this it said that "your testes change".

>>a "fruity" day -- but that's just not the case. I don't know if your
>>stomach shrinks, or if your tastes change, or what, but I'll sit down
>>ready to really go at it, and I'll be full LONG before I expected to be.

[Mike Gaskins]

I've been calorie counting myself. I stepped on the scales a while
back and it shockingly said 238 lbs. That's higher that I had ever
been in my life, so I've relegated myself to 1800 calories per day.

Doesn't matter what I eat. I can have a burger if I want; milkshake if
I want; 5 Mountain Dews per day if I want. The only catch is I look at
the Nutrition labels on the back of EVERYTHING (and I only eat at
restaurants that publish their Nutritional Data). I do the math to
figure out the # of cals in everything I eat, then write that down.
Once I make it to 1800 - time to stop eating for today. I can still
drink all the water I want (and if I get REALLY hungry I can eat dill
pickles as they have almost no calories).

I've managed to get down to 228 lbs now. It's slow going (weight
usually drops off at around 1 to 2 lbs per week), but given that I can
satisfy any craving I have, it makes it a lot easier to stick to.
Though it's a ways off, I'm hoping to get back under 200 lbs (haven't
been there in about 8 years).

Of course this is all for piloting too. I've been looking at various
homebuilt airplanes, and quite a few of the single seaters that I'm
interested in (namely the Nieuport 11/17 replicas) don't look like they
would lift me + full fuel off the ground :(. I'm hoping to improve
that situation LOL.

[ShawnD2112]

Congrats to both of you! Notice any change in fuel burn?

I lost 40 pounds over the last couple of years. The Pitts is definitely
more spritely at the top of the verticals than it used to be. I can do some
cool gyro stuff I don't remember doing before!

Shawn
Lighter than when in high school

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:WHvye.124977$_o.36239@attbi_s71...
>> Results: went from 200# to 189#. I think if I decide to throw a little
>> exercise in there I would probably drop another 10#. We'll see. I am jsut
>> happy as hell to be below 190#
>>
>> Thanks Jay for starting me on this journey!!
>
> Awesome, Jon! I didn't mean to start a new "Pilot's Diet" here, but what
> the heck.
>
> BTW: After several months, I'm still with it, and expect to be for life.
> The strawberries at this time of year are awesome -- big as plums, and
> sweet as candy. I'm munching on them all day long, am never hungry (I
> throw in apples, bananas, and an occasional flavored rice cake once in a
> while, for variety), my blood pressure is normal (the whole reason for
> starting this, as you may recall) -- and, best of all, I'm at my target
> weight of 175 pounds!
>
> I haven't weighed 175 since COLLEGE, 23 years ago. It's an amazing
> feeling, having your pants fall off without a belt! :-)
>
> 23 pounds have melted away, almost without effort. I'm never hungry (did
> I already say that?), and I still eat one "normal" meal each day, which
> can include ANYTHING. Cake, pie, ice cream, beer, margaritas, fried
> chicken -- who cares? Whatever you want to eat, it's yours, cuz you've
> eaten nothing but healthy fruits all day long, eliminating tons of fat and
> calories from your diet.
>
> Knowing that the "Reward Meal" is waiting at the end of the day makes
> eating fruit easy -- especially when I'm literally gorging myself on the
> stuff. And something interesting I've discovered: After a month or two of
> eating fruit all day long, your capacity for greasy fried foods goes way
> down. You would think I'd be absolutely stuffing myself with cheesecake
> at the end of a "fruity" day -- but that's just not the case. I don't
> know if your stomach shrinks, or if your tastes change, or what, but I'll
> sit down ready to really go at it, and I'll be full LONG before I expected
> to be.
>
> And, finally, no more Tums, Rolaids, or Prilosec every night, because I
> don't have acid reflux anymore. That has been an unexpected and VERY
> nice side effect.
>
> I think I've stumbled across the easiest, most successful diet, ever.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Of course this is all for piloting too.

Congrats on the weight loss -- but DILL PICKLES? C'mon, man, eat a
Golden Delicious apple, or a banana, or sumpin'...

;-)

It really is *all* about flying. Would I care so much if my blood
pressure was border-line high if it didn't threaten my medical?
Probably not. But it's a wonderful incentive to get -- and stay --
healthy.

Yet another benefit of aviation!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[VE5JL]

Thank you all for your advice, I was leaning toward an autopilot for safety
too, thx again.

Joe

[John Clonts]

Ever since I read Michael's post about all the failure modes which can
tip you over in a heartbeat, I've only allowed "Otto" to fly in VMC. I
hand-fly all the IMC--besides, I need/want the practise...

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

[Aluckyguess]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> Of course this is all for piloting too.
>
> Congrats on the weight loss -- but DILL PICKLES? C'mon, man, eat a
> Golden Delicious apple, or a banana, or sumpin'...
>
> ;-)
>
> It really is *all* about flying. Would I care so much if my blood
> pressure was border-line high if it didn't threaten my medical?
> Probably not. But it's a wonderful incentive to get -- and stay --
> healthy.
>
Its has kept me from drinking a lot of beer. I always think if I have a beer
I cant fly, and you never know I may have to fly for who knows what.

> Yet another benefit of aviation!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> You know, I expect this kind of stuff from the Left Coasters -- but
> from a fellow-Wisconsinite?

>
Hey, watch it with the left coasters comments there Mr. H. You just
happen to have a couple of them as paying customers in the next few
weeks! :-)

Glad to see a little infighting between the Midwest folks. You go Jim B!

<ducking>

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Jon Kraus wrote:

Congratulations on increasing your useful load...er, something like that.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> You know, I expect this kind of stuff from the Left Coasters -- but
> from a fellow-Wisconsinite?
>
> That ain't right...

Well, Wisconsinite *does* rhyme with Aphrodite, doesn't it? <g>
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

Only if you pronounce it Wisconsin-nightie'. To rhyme with Afro-ditee'.

Jim



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
>> You know, I expect this kind of stuff from the Left Coasters -- but
>> from a fellow-Wisconsinite?
>>
>> That ain't right...
>
> Well, Wisconsinite *does* rhyme with Aphrodite, doesn't it? <g>
> --
> Jim in NC

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
> Hey, watch it with the left coasters comments there Mr. H. You just
> happen to have a couple of them as paying customers in the next few weeks!
> :-)


Prices fluctuate - last week Cub Foods had (yummy) bing cherries at
$1.48/pound. This week they're almost $4 again.

How much do we owe you Jay?
Let's see ...hey you're in luck. Grapes are only $1.29/pound over at the
Hy-Vee this week.

Actually, all Inn rates are tied to frozen concentrated orange juice futures
these days...<g>


Montblack

[Corky Scott]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:19:29 GMT, "VE5JL" >
wrote:

>Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
>
>I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
>however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
>
>I'd like some opinions.
>
>thx
>
>Joe

I just tried using the AP on the C172SP I rent from the local FBO last
time I flew, about two weeks ago. I'd never actually used it during
training or in the two years since I got my pilots license, and I
always wanted to try it.

So two weeks ago I did the preflight checkout of the unit, and then
took off and climbed to 3000 feet. I punched in the "AP" button, the
"ALT" button and selected "Heading" as a choice. Then I sat back and
watched while it turned the few degrees needed to lock to the
Directional Gyro's heading and held it there while sticking precisely
to 3,000 feet. The morning was hot and moist and very very still so
the AP had little work to do once it got where it was set.

I tried moving the compass bug a bit to one side or the other and the
AP dutifully tracked to the new heading as it should. I did not try
using it to track the GPS or the VOR, although it could.

I can see this as being a really important tool when flying solo and
having to change frequencies or look one up or any of a number of
occasions when having the Auto Pilot on would be of valuable
assistance.

I'm seriously considering purchasing a non certified unit for my
homebuilt.

Corky Scott

[Dave Butler]

Corky Scott wrote:

> I just tried using the AP on the C172SP I rent from the local FBO last
> time I flew, about two weeks ago. I'd never actually used it during
> training or in the two years since I got my pilots license, and I
> always wanted to try it.
>
> So two weeks ago I did the preflight checkout of the unit, and then
> took off and climbed to 3000 feet. I punched in the "AP" button, the
> "ALT" button and selected "Heading" as a choice. Then I sat back and
> watched while it turned the few degrees needed to lock to the
> Directional Gyro's heading and held it there while sticking precisely
> to 3,000 feet. The morning was hot and moist and very very still so
> the AP had little work to do once it got where it was set.

Yeah, it's too bad we don't usually get instruction in how to use these things.
If you're going to self-instruct be sure to explore the edges of what happens in
altitude-hold when the airspeed bleeds off. Does it disconnect, or fly you into
a stall, or what?

Self-instruction is better than no instruction at all, and may be better than
what you would get if you asked an instructor.

Dave

[Jay Honeck]

> Prices fluctuate - last week Cub Foods had (yummy) bing cherries at
> $1.48/pound. This week they're almost $4 again.

You should see the price of strawberries! They go up and down like oil
futures!

Well, more like "up" I guess. :-(

Of course, they're as big as apples right now, and incredibly sweet. I
can't believe I never used to eat them unless they were ground up in a milk
shake!

> Let's see ...hey you're in luck. Grapes are only $1.29/pound over at the
> Hy-Vee this week.

You've got Hy-Vees in Minnesota? I thought they were only in Iowa and
points south...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I lost 40 pounds over the last couple of years. The Pitts is definitely
> more spritely at the top of the verticals than it used to be. I can do
> some cool gyro stuff I don't remember doing before!

FORTY POUNDS? Wow, that's, like, a whole kid!

Congrats, man. How'd you do it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

Hell, that NUTHIN'. In 1991 I lost 150 pounds.

130 pounds of her and 20 pounds of me.

{;-)

Jim


">
> FORTY POUNDS? Wow, that's, like, a whole kid!
>
> Congrats, man. How'd you do it?

[Lakeview Bill]

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but most autopilot manufacturers publish
the POH's for their autopilots on their websites in .pdf format.

You might find these helpful...


"Corky Scott" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:19:29 GMT, "VE5JL" >
> wrote:
>
> >Is there any one here flying a 172 using an autopilot?
> >
> >I think on longer flights (3+ hours) and autopilot would be an advantage,
> >however there are some in the old school that think it is not necessary.
> >
> >I'd like some opinions.
> >
> >thx
> >
> >Joe
>
> I just tried using the AP on the C172SP I rent from the local FBO last
> time I flew, about two weeks ago. I'd never actually used it during
> training or in the two years since I got my pilots license, and I
> always wanted to try it.
>
> So two weeks ago I did the preflight checkout of the unit, and then
> took off and climbed to 3000 feet. I punched in the "AP" button, the
> "ALT" button and selected "Heading" as a choice. Then I sat back and
> watched while it turned the few degrees needed to lock to the
> Directional Gyro's heading and held it there while sticking precisely
> to 3,000 feet. The morning was hot and moist and very very still so
> the AP had little work to do once it got where it was set.
>
> I tried moving the compass bug a bit to one side or the other and the
> AP dutifully tracked to the new heading as it should. I did not try
> using it to track the GPS or the VOR, although it could.
>
> I can see this as being a really important tool when flying solo and
> having to change frequencies or look one up or any of a number of
> occasions when having the Auto Pilot on would be of valuable
> assistance.
>
> I'm seriously considering purchasing a non certified unit for my
> homebuilt.
>
> Corky Scott

[Corky Scott]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:32:08 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
> wrote:

>I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but most autopilot manufacturers publish
>the POH's for their autopilots on their websites in .pdf format.
>
>You might find these helpful...

I actually did read up on how to use the AP before trying it. The
training materials included a thick book that was like a POH for the
172, but was for training only. It has a supplement covering the
operation of the auto pilot. My instructor has long since moved on to
become a jet commuter pilot, but I've kept up contact with the school
and the instructor who is still there and he encouraged me to read up
on it in that manual.

He also said that he'd be happy to fly with me to check me out on it,
but I was loath to spend the $45/hour. I will continue to try out the
various things it can do as I pick my good weather flying days.

Corky Scott

[Stephen McNaught]

And make sure you know all the ways to turn it off/disable it.

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1120659733.724673@sj-nntpcache-3...
> Yeah, it's too bad we don't usually get instruction in how to use these
things.
> If you're going to self-instruct be sure to explore the edges of what
happens in
> altitude-hold when the airspeed bleeds off. Does it disconnect, or fly you
into
> a stall, or what?
>
> Self-instruction is better than no instruction at all, and may be better
than
> what you would get if you asked an instructor.
>
> Dave

[Jim Burns]

Na.... no infighting... just great sense of humours. After all, in the land
of OSH, beer, American Champion, beer, The Hay Bros, beer, Mitchell, Bong,
Basler, beer, Slayton, Sholl, Whittman, beer, The Packers, beer and where
people wear cheese on their heads, do you think that there could ever be any
infighting??? :)) Well, maybe a little between beers.
Jim

[ShawnD2112]

You made me laugh out loud with that one, Jay! A whole kid!

I did it pretty much the same way you did. Made myself smart about food and
how the body uses it and realized the whole low-fat but high carb diet I was
eating was all wrong. Didn't go the Atkins route because that's a bit
extreme, but I realized that the balance of what I took in wasn't what my
body really needed to be healthy. So I set a few rules and goals for
myself.

Rule Number One: Don't take any rule or goal too seriously! Have fun but
with an eye to shedding some weight and being healthy. Weeks I was pretty
disciplines, weekends I gave myself a break and loosened up on the rules.

2. Aim for a pound off per week. Some weeks I made it, some weeks I
didn't. Oh, well. I got there in the end.
3. Eat food like we're meant to. Humans didn't evolve to eat processed
food. If the cavemen didn't eat it, then I won't (refer to rule 1). This
means eating stuff in as natural a state as possible. If it comes in a box
or a jar, I usually don't eat it.
4. Minimize bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, and cereal because I simply don't
need as much of it as I was eating
5. Bulk up on veggies, 5 colors a day if possible. You can eat as many
veggies as you want and they're still good for you.
6. I wasn't going to be a food nazi and bore my friends rigid with talk
about dietary habits (this made sure I still had friends to notice the
weight loss!)
7. Eat smaller meals more frequently. Breakfast, snack on an apple at
1030, lunch, snack on a banana at 1630, dinner; that sort of thing. That
way I'm not so hungry when meal time comes so I eat better and less.

There were some other bits and pieces in there but that was the bulk of it.
The motivation was watching the belt and collar on my shirts get too big. I
went from tight 36" pants down to loose 32". I'm now on the smallest notch
of a belt I nearly gave to Goodwill because I couldn't get it on.

Started at about 200 lbs and got down to a low of 157. I've put some of it
back on because I've come off some of my discipline, but I'm back on it and
losing it again. This was all without a lick of exercise, by the way.

Like I said, I'd rather put that 40 lbs in the fuel tank (or into
performance)! That was enough motivation for me!!

Good luck with your habits. Sounds like you're on to a winner!

Shawn




"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:kSRye.138502$xm3.89132@attbi_s21...
>> I lost 40 pounds over the last couple of years. The Pitts is definitely
>> more spritely at the top of the verticals than it used to be. I can do
>> some cool gyro stuff I don't remember doing before!
>
> FORTY POUNDS? Wow, that's, like, a whole kid!
>
> Congrats, man. How'd you do it?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Started at about 200 lbs and got down to a low of 157. I've put some of
> it back on because I've come off some of my discipline, but I'm back on it
> and losing it again. This was all without a lick of exercise, by the way.

How tall are you? If I got down to 157, I'd be in the hospital!

(I'm 6' tall...)

I'm trying to maintain a good balance with exercise, too. Working out every
day with a 14-year old keeps you in pretty good shape! (I equalize his
excess energy by making him work out right after he gets up. Heh, heh,
heh... :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

I wish I had an autopilot for my 172, primarily for single-pilot IFR,
but the absence of one does not prevent me from undertaking certain
trips. If it can't be done without an autopilot, then it probably
shouldn't be done in any 172.

Best,
-cwk.

[ShawnD2112]

That's actually a much better way to do it. I'm 5'10" and realized, once
I'd gotten down to that weight, that I was a 98 lb weakling just dying to
get out! Started doing some exercise after that and it's amazing how I saw
results when in the past I'd never seen any (covered by a thick layer of
fat, you see!!)

Shawn
"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:NZVye.139890$nG6.61840@attbi_s22...
>> Started at about 200 lbs and got down to a low of 157. I've put some of
>> it back on because I've come off some of my discipline, but I'm back on
>> it and losing it again. This was all without a lick of exercise, by the
>> way.
>
> How tall are you? If I got down to 157, I'd be in the hospital!
>
> (I'm 6' tall...)
>
> I'm trying to maintain a good balance with exercise, too. Working out
> every day with a 14-year old keeps you in pretty good shape! (I equalize
> his excess energy by making him work out right after he gets up. Heh,
> heh, heh... :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Gary Drescher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:NZVye.139890$nG6.61840@attbi_s22...
> How tall are you? If I got down to 157, I'd be in the hospital!
>
> (I'm 6' tall...)

At 6', 157# would give you a BMI of 21.3, which is right in the middle of
what the CDC designates as the normal range. To be underweight, you'd need
to weigh less than 137#.
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/bmi/calc-bmi.htm

> I'm trying to maintain a good balance with exercise, too.

Yup, that's important.

--Gary

[Peter Duniho]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
> At 6', 157# would give you a BMI of 21.3, which is right in the middle of
> what the CDC designates as the normal range. To be underweight, you'd need
> to weigh less than 137#.
> http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/bmi/calc-bmi.htm

IMHO, all that shows is how silly the whole BMI thing is.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, but I simply cannot see
being 138 pounds and six feet tall as healthy. IMHO, that's heading into
anorexic territory.

IMHO, one of the problems with the BMI is that it relates weight with the
square of your height, not the cube. But of course, volume increases as the
cube, not the square (and weight is closely related to volume). So, the
taller you are, the skinnier you have to be, proportionally speaking, in
order to stay within the approved BMI range.

Few people would describe me as overly skinny anymore, but most would
(foolishly :) ) still call me slender, in spite of a few extra pounds around
the middle I've been carrying. Yet, according to the BMI calculation, I'm
well into "Overweight" territory at 26.2. For me to be smack in the middle
of the "Normal" range, I'd have to get my weight *below* my late teenage
weight, when I *was* downright skin and bones.

Pete

[Gary Drescher]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
>> At 6', 157# would give you a BMI of 21.3, which is right in the middle of
>> what the CDC designates as the normal range. To be underweight, you'd
>> need to weigh less than 137#.
>> http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/bmi/calc-bmi.htm
>
> IMHO, all that shows is how silly the whole BMI thing is.
>
> Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, but I simply cannot
> see being 138 pounds and six feet tall as healthy. IMHO, that's heading
> into anorexic territory.
>
> IMHO, one of the problems with the BMI is that it relates weight with the
> square of your height, not the cube.

Dunno. The CDC claims that their specified BMI ranges correlate with
mortality and morbidity. But I haven't reviewed the studies myself, so I
don't have an independent opinion on the question.

--Gary

[Montblack]

("Peter Duniho" wrote)
[trimmed down]
> Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, but I simply cannot
> see being 138 pounds and six feet tall as healthy. IMHO, that's heading
> into anorexic territory


That's right about where Dad was when he went into the service in the mid
1940's. I bet that described half of the enlisted men (18 year olds) at boot
camp that year - 1946.


Montblack

[Peter Duniho]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> That's right about where Dad was when he went into the service in the mid
> 1940's. I bet that described half of the enlisted men (18 year olds) at
> boot camp that year - 1946.

Half? I doubt that. Even by the BMI standards (which I feel set
inappropriately low standards for taller people), that would be a surprising
number of people.

In any case, 18 year-olds are not fully grown men (or women). Many still
have a fair amount of "filling out" to do, with respect to adding muscle
mass (and a little fat, or a lot if they aren't eating right and
exercising). I was 40 pounds lighter when I was 18 than I am now. Only
about half of that is weight I consider "extra".

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
> Dunno. The CDC claims that their specified BMI ranges correlate with
> mortality and morbidity. But I haven't reviewed the studies myself, so I
> don't have an independent opinion on the question.

Well, it has been suggested that a starvation diet leads to the longest
lifespan. In very simple creatures (eg worms) it can double their lifespan.
In the "higher" orders, the improvement is not so dramatic, but has still
been claimed to be measured.

So I suppose if your only goal is to maximize the length of your life,
starving yourself makes a lot of sense. I don't think that necessarily
means it's *healthy* to do so though. Quality of life is just as important
as length, if not more so.

Pete

[Gary Drescher]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
> So I suppose if your only goal is to maximize the length of your life,
> starving yourself makes a lot of sense. I don't think that necessarily
> means it's *healthy* to do so though.

Well, they do claim to be looking at morbidity as well as mortality. But
again, I haven't looked at their methodology in any detail.

--Gary

[W P Dixon]

WOW!,
I am 5'10" , and my scrawny butt weighed 131 lbs. when I went off to
Parris Island,....after having to eat all the fat bodies food for 13 weeks I
graduated at 156. I have never eaten so much in my life! ;)
Now with my diet I have been on I have gone from 201 to 172. The
goal is 165, which is really a good weight for me. I feel so much better and
have twice the energy level!!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Montblack" > wrote in message > That's
right about where Dad was when he went into the service in the mid
> 1940's. I bet that described half of the enlisted men (18 year olds) at
> boot camp that year - 1946.
>
>
> Montblack
>

[Jose]

> I am 5'10" , and my scrawny butt weighed 131 lbs. when I went off to Parris Island

Wow. How much did the rest of you weigh? <flee!>

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jay Honeck]

>> That's right about where Dad was when he went into the service in the mid
>> 1940's. I bet that described half of the enlisted men (18 year olds) at
>> boot camp that year - 1946.
>
> Half? I doubt that. Even by the BMI standards (which I feel set
> inappropriately low standards for taller people), that would be a
> surprising number of people.

I don't know about after World War II, but when my dad enlisted in 1942, the
country was still suffering from the effects of the Great Depression. Many
people didn't have enough to eat, including my father. He was my height,
and in the 140 pound range. His pictures -- and the pictures of his high
school class -- look like a bunch of concentration camp victims by today's
standards.

And his service photos are even more gaunt. They really worked those 90
day wonders, and he actually LOST weight his first year in.

It's interesting (and probably not a coincidence) that women who were
considered sexy in the 40s and 50s (Rosalind Russell; Marilyn Monroe, etc.)
were "fat" by today's standards -- yet the majority of the population was
painfully thin when compared to their counterparts today.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Peter Duniho" wrote)
> Well, it has been suggested that a starvation diet leads to the longest
> lifespan. In very simple creatures (eg worms) it can double their
> lifespan. In the "higher" orders, the improvement is not so dramatic, but
> has still been claimed to be measured.


Saw a show a while back ...found it.

http://www.pbs.org/safarchive/3_ask/archive/qna/32103_walford.html
Roy Walford as seen on Never Say Die: Eat Less - Live Longer

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/3/220758.shtml
He died. Drats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64170-2004May3.html
Seeking the Low-Calorie Fountain of Youth
(Severely Restricted Diets May Slow Aging Process)

I'm a sucker for this stuff - it sounds good to me!

I mean ...The science is "fascinating."


Montblack
I'm 193 in 'caloric intake years.'

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> How tall are you? If I got down to 157, I'd be in the hospital!
>
> (I'm 6' tall...)
>

Nah, you'd just be as skinny as me Jay (6', currently anywhere between
150 and 155 lbs). Dad's height, Mom's metabolism = a winning
combination (and more carrying capacity in the Arrow) :-) I'll bet I
come back from OSH a few pounds heavier though...you know, the brat a
day routine.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Beckman]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Saw a show a while back ...found it.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/safarchive/3_ask/archive/qna/32103_walford.html
> Roy Walford as seen on Never Say Die: Eat Less - Live Longer
>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/3/220758.shtml
> He died. Drats.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64170-2004May3.html
> Seeking the Low-Calorie Fountain of Youth
> (Severely Restricted Diets May Slow Aging Process)
>
> I'm a sucker for this stuff - it sounds good to me!
>
> I mean ...The science is "fascinating."
>
>
> Montblack
> I'm 193 in 'caloric intake years.'

I don't see anything more than common sense at work here.

My wife has gone the Weight Watchers route.

WW does extensive research into caloric content of almost every food
available (even fast food chains) they then convert calories into "points."

Their plan allows you to eat anything you like, but you work under a cap on
total points for the day. You can blow all your points on a Mrs. Fields
binge or a Big Mac if you want, but if you want a good meal, you learn
portion control accross all food groups.

She lost 40lbs in about a year. WW works and works well.

But as in any kind of life change, discipline and the will to stick with it
prevail.

YMMV,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ
(Starting to make friends with fruit myself...)

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
> I'll bet I come back from OSH a few pounds heavier though...you know, the
brat a
> day routine.


And a "tailwind" all the way home to California. Poor Steve. <g>


Montblack

[Jim Burns]

Yesterday I happened to be listening to Wis. Public Radio and they were
interviewing a Doctor who worked for Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance in
Milwaukee. It is his job to develop risk tables for NML based upon many
factors.

His main problem with the CDC's catigorizations of underweight and
overweight based on BMI was that they had no "transition zone" before a
person was catagorized as being overweight. His thoughts are that when your
BMI is in the 25 to 27 range that you are in a transition phase and are not
as high risk as the CDC claims.

As his work includes many more variables than just weight, he also takes
into account these other factors when createing his tables. He mentioned
that just one other positive life factor, such as not smokeing, can lower an
overweight persons mortality rate to match say that of a smoker who was in
the normal BMI range.

http://www.drbobgleeson.com/ is his web site, I haven't read or bought any
of his material, I just noted that he was an interesting person to listen to
knowing that he worked for NML, a company who myself and many family members
have policies with.

Jim

[Gary Drescher]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> His thoughts are that when your
> BMI is in the 25 to 27 range that you are in a transition phase and are
> not
> as high risk as the CDC claims.

But how high a risk does the CDC claim? They're pretty explicit that BMI is
just one indicator and is not reliably diagnostic or prognostic by itself.

--Gary

[Jay Honeck]

> Nah, you'd just be as skinny as me Jay (6', currently anywhere between 150
> and 155 lbs).

Wow. The last time I weighed 150 was in junior high school!

Well, since you don't generally see any overweight centenarians, you should
be blessed with a long lifespan!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Yesterday I happened to be listening to Wis. Public Radio

Ah, Wisconsin Public Radio. How I miss it!

Between Tom Clark and Jean Feracca (sp?) in the mornings, and "Whaddya Know"
on weekends, they really made my job(s) -- many of which involved extensive
time in the car -- more enjoyable.

Iowa Public Radio tries hard, and we underwrite the local station -- but
they just don't have the horsepower. Not enough population to keep the pay
high enough to retain talent, I guess.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> But as in any kind of life change, discipline and the will to stick with
> it prevail.

Bingo. When you really want to lose weight, it will happen.

Until then, it's just too easy to stick another Twinkie in your mouth!

;-)

(Although I still think it helps to have a diet like mine, where you can
stuff yourself all day long with tasty foods -- and lose weight. I'm
actually eating MORE than I ate before, but it's all fruit until supper
time.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

Just finished listening to John Grisham's "The Broker" on Chapter A Day a
couple weeks ago. Pretty entertaining. Sometimes I get sick of hour after
hour of classic rock while I'm checking fields.

Whaddya Know is always fun, I get it on Saturday mornings while doing a more
extensive field tour. Then Car Talk comes on.

Some of their guests drive me crazy though. Some real whacko's. A guy the
other day wanted the maximum tax rate to be 90% with a maximum gross
earnings of 10 times the poverty level, anything earned above that would be
taxed at 100%. The host asked him why he'd give all that money to the
government when they always seem use it so inefficiently. The guest goes
into a 15 minute tirate about Bill Gates and how everthing he did was with
government money and that the taxpayers that paid for all his research
should be entitled to get their "investment" back from him. Ok. On the
other side of the spectrum, some guy called in wanting to close the borders
and shoot anybody that tried crossing. Dunno, but maybe he was East German.
That's when I re-discover all the other buttons on the radio.

What's weird is WPR is pretty liberal and Wis. Public Television is pretty
conservative. Balance maybe?

Jim

[Jim Burns]

Just did my BMI.... 19.4 5'10 and the same weight I was in high school,
135. In fact, I've finally worn out some of the jeans that I wore 20 years
ago. They were a bit tight, but I've only gone up one inch in the waist in
24 years. Of course all that also means that after about 3 beers I'm toast.
:)
Jim

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ntcze.130425$_o.72620@attbi_s71...
> > Yesterday I happened to be listening to Wis. Public Radio
>
> Ah, Wisconsin Public Radio. How I miss it!
>
> Between Tom Clark and Jean Feracca (sp?) in the mornings, and "Whaddya
Know"
> on weekends, they really made my job(s) -- many of which involved
extensive
> time in the car -- more enjoyable.
>
> Iowa Public Radio tries hard, and we underwrite the local station -- but
> they just don't have the horsepower. Not enough population to keep the
pay
> high enough to retain talent, I guess.

Record it on the internet, and listen to it in the car, later?
--
Jim in NC

[Jon Kraus]

Were you the one in the ad who was at the beach getting sand kicked in
his face?

:-)

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201

Jim Burns wrote:

> Just did my BMI.... 19.4 5'10 and the same weight I was in high school,
> 135. In fact, I've finally worn out some of the jeans that I wore 20 years
> ago. They were a bit tight, but I've only gone up one inch in the waist in
> 24 years. Of course all that also means that after about 3 beers I'm toast.
> :)
> Jim
>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

ROFL! nah... more of a runner's body than that guy
Jim

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
...
> Were you the one in the ad who was at the beach getting sand kicked in
> his face?
>
> :-)
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
>
> Jim Burns wrote:
>
> > Just did my BMI.... 19.4 5'10 and the same weight I was in high school,
> > 135. In fact, I've finally worn out some of the jeans that I wore 20
years
> > ago. They were a bit tight, but I've only gone up one inch in the waist
in
> > 24 years. Of course all that also means that after about 3 beers I'm
toast.
> > :)
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
>

[Jack Allison]

Seeing as we probably consume the same number of brats, we have the
double tailwind effect. Does that mean we're flying a twin? :-)

Hmmm, from fruit diet to brats...must be a thread originated by Jay!


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jon Kraus]

Yea.... I used to run... Then I discovered that it was difficult!! :-)

JK

Jim Burns wrote:
> ROFL! nah... more of a runner's body than that guy
> Jim
>
> "Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Were you the one in the ad who was at the beach getting sand kicked in
>>his face?
>>
>>:-)
>>
>>Jon Kraus
>>'79 Mooney 201
>>
>>Jim Burns wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Just did my BMI.... 19.4 5'10 and the same weight I was in high school,
>>>135. In fact, I've finally worn out some of the jeans that I wore 20
>
> years
>
>>>ago. They were a bit tight, but I've only gone up one inch in the waist
>
> in
>
>>>24 years. Of course all that also means that after about 3 beers I'm
>
> toast.
>
>>>:)
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Montblack]

("Jon Kraus" wrote)
> Yea.... I used to run... Then I discovered that it was difficult!! :-)


"I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and I'm
damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
- Neil Armstrong


Montblack
(OT silly 1976 stuff below)

Distance runner in High School - because I wasn't fast enough to be a
sprinter ...so I *must* have endurance. For me The Mile was a 4:58 SPRINT!!
(Yup, under 5 minutes - twice in my life)

Oh to be 16, with wings on my feet again. BTW, those wings were the same
shoes Forrest Gump was running in. Nike white, with red and blue heels
(1976).

Coach: ...Hit the road, we're doing a fast 8 miles today!
Me: .........Huh?
Coach: ...We should be done in just under an hour.
Me:..........Huh?

I could do multiple 7-minute miles (or 7:30-miles) in practice, but for the
life of me I could not get under 5 minutes in a race. At my 16-year-old
best, I could do sub 6-minute miles on a 5 mile dash (28-29-30 minutes), but
still the 4:30 Mile eluded me. That drove my coach nuts!

State Mile Record was 4:08 in Minnesota at the time, so I was only a scant
50 seconds off that mark, which is about ...oh, one lap!! <g>

I shunned all marathon talk because I was a sprinter at heart - albeit a
very, very slow sprinter.

[Gary Drescher]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and
> I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
> - Neil Armstrong

It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?

--Gary

[Montblack]

("Gary Drescher" wrote)
>> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and
>> I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
>> - Neil Armstrong
>
> It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
> something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?


Google > Neil Armstrong quotes > first hit > first quote

It's Google, I know. If it was in a Quote Book at the library would that be
a better proof/evidence? Hmm, probably. :-)


Montblack

[Gary Drescher]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Gary Drescher" wrote)
>>> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and
>>> I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
>>> - Neil Armstrong
>>
>> It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
>> something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?
>
> Google > Neil Armstrong quotes > first hit > first quote

Yup, like any chain-letter, it's all over the web. But none of the sites
cite any evidence, as far as I've noticed. In effect, lots of people are all
pointing to one another and saying "I believe it because *you* do". :-)

> If it was in a Quote Book at the library would that be a better
> proof/evidence?

Nope, not unless the book cites a credible original source.

--Gary

[Jose]

>> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and
>> I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
>> - Neil Armstrong
>
>
> It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
> something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?

I have a feeling that whoever did say it was saying it in jest, and in
jest it would not be sad if Armstrong said it.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gary Drescher]

"Jose" > wrote in message
...
> I have a feeling that whoever did say it was saying it in jest, and in
> jest it would not be sad if Armstrong said it.

Yes, good point. :)

--Gary

[RST Engineering]

I transitioned from being a high school first baseman to a college pitcher
because my sorry hiney couldn't take that 90 feet from home plate to first
base after a slow roller to the infield without being thrown out as I passed
the opposing dugout. Ptichers ain't gotta BE fast, just gotta THROW fast.
Or throw junk that weaves its way from the mound to the plate via goosey
routes. Tha's me.

Jim



"Montblack" > wrote in message
...

> I shunned all marathon talk because I was a sprinter at heart - albeit a
> very, very slow sprinter.

[StellaStarr]

Jose wrote:
>>> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats
>>> and I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a
>>> street."
>>> - Neil Armstrong
>>
>>
>>
>> It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
>> something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?
>
>
> I have a feeling that whoever did say it was saying it in jest, and in
> jest it would not be sad if Armstrong said it.
>
> Jose

I just can't resist a challenge. The first 3 pages of Google hits do
seem to back up Armstrong as a source, unlike an awful lot of wit
wrongly attributed to George Carlin, Erma Bombeck and Andy Rooney - most
of those erroneous.

[Gary Drescher]

"StellaStarr" > wrote in message
news:yQGze.137505$x96.64636@attbi_s72...
>>>> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and
>>>> I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
>>>> - Neil Armstrong

>>> It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
>>> something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?
>
> I just can't resist a challenge. The first 3 pages of Google hits do seem
> to back up Armstrong as a source,

There are tons of sites that attribute the quote to him, but I didn't notice
any sites that said anything about what makes them think he said it. Did you
find that information anywhere?

Thanks,
Gary

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-07-08, Montblack <Y4-NOT> wrote:
> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats and I'm
> damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a street."
> - Neil Armstrong

I hope he said that in jest - whilst doing exercise will increase your
heart rate whilst doing it, if you are fit your resting heartbeat will
be far lower than an unfit person.

An unfit person probably has a resting heartbeat of around 70-75 bpm.
I'm reasonably fit and my resting heartrate is around 50 bpm. Since you
only do vigorous exercise for a fairly short time but there's lots of
sitting around to do you'll use far less if you're fit!
--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[vincent p. norris]

>>>> "I believe that the Good Lord gave us a finite number of heartbeats
>>>> and I'm damned if I'm going to use up mine running up and down a
>>>> street."
>>>> - Neil Armstrong>>>
>>>
>>> It'd be sad if Armstrong, a de facto ambassador for science, had said
>>> something so baseless. Is there any evidence that he actually did?

I am ancienct enough to confirm that one of the original astronauts
said it. I (and most U.S. citizens alaive at the time) heard about
way back at the time it was said, because the media considered it
"newsworthy." Don't know for sure if it was Armstrong or one of the
others, but it definitely was one of those astronauts.

vince norris

[George Patterson]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> So I suppose if your only goal is to maximize the length of your life,
> starving yourself makes a lot of sense.

Nah ... you won't live any longer; it just *seems* longer.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[aaronw]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:57:09 -0400, "Stephen McNaught"
> wrote:

>And make sure you know all the ways to turn it off/disable it.

Just to check myself, for the AP on the C-172S:

A) AP disc on the yoke.
B) I think if you push AP again on the unit... but I would have to
doublecheck that one.
C) Pull out AP breaker.
D) The Avionics bus master that it is on (Of course, I forget which
one) for those with a split avionics master.
E) Master switch.

Did I get all of them?

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:43:24 GMT, aaronw >
wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:57:09 -0400, "Stephen McNaught"
> wrote:
>
>>And make sure you know all the ways to turn it off/disable it.
>
>Just to check myself, for the AP on the C-172S:
>
>A) AP disc on the yoke.
>B) I think if you push AP again on the unit... but I would have to
>doublecheck that one.
>C) Pull out AP breaker.
>D) The Avionics bus master that it is on (Of course, I forget which
>one) for those with a split avionics master.
>E) Master switch.
>
>Did I get all of them?

Yes, pushing the AP button again will disco the AP.

I think using the electric trim also disco's the AP.

[Lakeview Bill]

Be careful of the yoke button...

Some aircraft are also equipped with a "CWS" (control wheel steering)
button, that suspends, but does non disconnect, the autopilot. When the CWS
button is released, the autopilot resumes control in it's previous modes.

These aircraft will also have an "autopilot disconnect" button, that
completely disengages the autopilot.



"aaronw" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:57:09 -0400, "Stephen McNaught"
> > wrote:
>
> >And make sure you know all the ways to turn it off/disable it.
>
> Just to check myself, for the AP on the C-172S:
>
> A) AP disc on the yoke.
> B) I think if you push AP again on the unit... but I would have to
> doublecheck that one.
> C) Pull out AP breaker.
> D) The Avionics bus master that it is on (Of course, I forget which
> one) for those with a split avionics master.
> E) Master switch.
>
> Did I get all of them?

[Stephen McNaught]

That sounds right for the 172S's KAP140. Another thing that I do, is to make
sure that the autopilot is a part of my preflight. You especially want to
ensure that you can overpower the autopilot while you're still on the
ground.

"aaronw" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:57:09 -0400, "Stephen McNaught"
> > wrote:
>
> >And make sure you know all the ways to turn it off/disable it.
>
> Just to check myself, for the AP on the C-172S:
>
> A) AP disc on the yoke.
> B) I think if you push AP again on the unit... but I would have to
> doublecheck that one.
> C) Pull out AP breaker.
> D) The Avionics bus master that it is on (Of course, I forget which
> one) for those with a split avionics master.
> E) Master switch.
>
> Did I get all of them?

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:39:35 -0400, "Stephen McNaught"
> wrote:

>That sounds right for the 172S's KAP140. Another thing that I do, is to make
>sure that the autopilot is a part of my preflight. You especially want to
>ensure that you can overpower the autopilot while you're still on the
>ground.

Although missed by most I know, the pre-flight checks for overpower,
electric trim, and disco are required by the supplement.....

[Jose]

> Although missed by most I know, the pre-flight checks for overpower,
> electric trim, and disco are required by the supplement.....

.... I thought disco went out in the 80s.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter Clark]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 02:11:42 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

>> Although missed by most I know, the pre-flight checks for overpower,
>> electric trim, and disco are required by the supplement.....
>
>... I thought disco went out in the 80s.

OK, I deserved that one.....