Re: From the FAA FAQ - is this right?

[Brian Whatcott]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:22:26 +0100, Peter >
wrote:

>Question:
>May I use a foreign pilot's license to fly a U.S.-registered aircraft
>from the U.S. to the country that issued my license?
>
>
>Answer:
> You may fly from the U.S. to another country using your license for
>that country if the aircraft is registered in that country. If the
>aircraft is registered in the U.S., you must have a U.S. license to
>fly while still in the U.S. You would also need a commercial license
>and a U.S. instrument rating if you were using instruments.
>
>****
>
>WHY does one need a "commercial license" if using instruments?? Surely
>a PPL with an IR is OK for IFR flight.
>

Yes indeed. If no pay passengers.

Brian Whatcott

[Guenther Eichhorn]

It doesn't matter where you fly, you ALWAYS need the license of the
country where the aircraft is registered. If you fly a US registered
aircraft, you need a US license, whether you fly in the US, to or from
the US of entirely in other countries.

Guenther Eichhorn

In article >,
Peter > writes:
>Question:
>May I use a foreign pilot's license to fly a U.S.-registered aircraft
>from the U.S. to the country that issued my license?
>
>
>Answer:
> You may fly from the U.S. to another country using your license for
>that country if the aircraft is registered in that country. If the
>aircraft is registered in the U.S., you must have a U.S. license to
>fly while still in the U.S. You would also need a commercial license
>and a U.S. instrument rating if you were using instruments.
>
>****
>
>WHY does one need a "commercial license" if using instruments?? Surely
>a PPL with an IR is OK for IFR flight.
>
>

[Sylvain]

Peter wrote:

> Actually that is definitely not the case; for example you can fly an
> N-reg aircraft here in the UK (UK only) on a UK issued PPL. You can

as far as the FAA is concerned, the relevent regulations is 14 CFR 61.3:

"...(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or
in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil
aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—

(1) Has a valid pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization
issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily
accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot
certificate or authorization. However, when the aircraft is operated
within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country
in which the aircraft is operated may be used; and..."

> also fly a G-reg aircraft on an FAA PPL and, because the UK
> automatically validates ICAO PPLs when used on G-reg aircraft, you can
> fly that G-reg worldwide.

are you sure about this? i.e., it is also my understanding that
one can fly a G- registered aircraft in the UK (and Isle of Man and
Channel Islands ;-) with an ICAO license other than a British/JAR
one, but I thought it didn't extend to flying said G- registered
aircraft elsewhere, e.g., picking up a G- registered aircraft
in England and flying it to France say, on a US certificate (the
rule of thumb I was told about was that, out of three countries,
i.e., country of the pilot license/certificate, country of
registration of the aircraft and country where one flies, two
must be the same...); but then I might very well be wrong.

--Sylvain

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:37:44 +0100, Peter > wrote:

>Actually that is definitely not the case; for example you can fly an
>N-reg aircraft here in the UK (UK only) on a UK issued PPL. You can
>also fly a G-reg aircraft on an FAA PPL and, because the UK
>automatically validates ICAO PPLs when used on G-reg aircraft, you can
>fly that G-reg worldwide.

Peter,

You seem knowledgeable about foreign regs and flying and reciprocities.

Do you know if there is any method by which I can use my FAA CPL with
Instrument rating to obtain privileges to fly non-commercial flights in
Portugal IFR on a Portugese registered a/c?

The last time I checked (many years ago), I could only get an expensive 90
day license for day VFR flight (without sitting for a test in Lisbon).

Thanks.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[David Cartwright]

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
> You would also need a commercial license
> and a U.S. instrument rating if you were using instruments.

Obviously most of us know what they mean, but this is appallingly sloppy
writing. I "use instruments" whenever I fly an aircraft, be it under VFR or
IFR. They should at least say "flying soleley on instruments", or "flying in
IMC conditions".

D.

[Sylvain]

Peter wrote:

> Yes, you can do this. It is because the UK law (the Air Navigation
> Order) automatically validates these foreign licenses i.e. it
> "converts" them into UK licenses, when flying a G-reg. I can dig out
> the section if you need it. The ANO itself is on the CAA.co.uk
> website; the file is called cap393.pdf. This *automatic* validation in
> the UK is non-ICAO (normally one needs a piece of paper) and the UK
> has filed a difference to ICAO on it; it is very convenient of course.

thanks, I'll look it up, it is definitely interesting;

>
> The above is NON commercial only e.g. you may not be allowed to
> exercise certain license privileges like an instructor rating (done to
> protect the business of local flying schools).

a FAA instructor certificate is actually not a *pilot* rating as such;
i.e., you can instruct without exercising the privilege of your
pilot certificate, if your student is qualified to act as PIC; i.e.,
I have in mind financing my next European vacation by doing a few BFR
here and there to those expat FAA certificated pilots out there :-)
(but then I have to get this CFI rating first, actively working on
it as I speak :-)

--Sylvain

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:52:54 +0100, Peter > wrote:

>
> Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
>
>>Do you know if there is any method by which I can use my FAA CPL with
>>Instrument rating to obtain privileges to fly non-commercial flights in
>>Portugal IFR on a Portugese registered a/c?
>>
>>The last time I checked (many years ago), I could only get an expensive 90
>>day license for day VFR flight (without sitting for a test in Lisbon).
>
>Unfortunately Ron what I know is limited to what I need to know, plus
>what I know 1st hand from other pilots I know personally. I have no
>info on Portugal. You could look up their AIP. Some links are here:
>
> http://www.eurocontrol.int/ais/links/europe.htm
>
> http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/ (very hard to get into this one due
>to big Java objects)
>
>Normally, an ICAO IR is valid (for full IFR privileges in Class A-G)
>only if its state of issue matches the a/c reg. Which is why we have
>the stampede to N-reg here in Europe, to get the IFR privileges of the
>FAA IR throughout Europe.
>
>I know of only one exception to this, and that was the Greek one where
>they allow an FAA IR in a Greek-reg a/c. And on that one I don't know
>if they allow the a/c to fly IFR outside Greece (but I have contacts
>there and could find out easily enough).
>
>In principle any State could (if they wished) validate an FAA IR for
>full IFR privileges in its own reg a/c in its own airspace.
>
>I know for sure that here in the UK an FAA IR does give you IFR
>privileges in a G-reg but only outside CAS. This means Class G only
>which makes it a relatively worthless privilege. (Especially as we
>have the IMC Rating which gives you full IFR privileges outside Class
>A).
>
>I am also pretty sure that the same applies in France (flying an
>F-reg) but due to their airspace structure (lots of Class E which *is*
>CAS for IFR, and much stricter rules for IFR routes than the UK) this
>is nearly useless. I'd *guess* Portugal would be the same - the FAA IR
>would be OK for IFR in Class G and that is where I would start
>checking it out. Can the flying you want to do be done in Class G?
>
>In Portugal/Spain, you can fly VFR most of the time; the weather is
>usually good, and when it's bad it's horrid :)
>
>
>Peter.

Thanks for that information. I'd be flying in the Azores, and I'm not
certain of the airspace around the various fields. But there was also an
issue with night flight, at least there was in the past.

But I'll check the links you posted.

Best,
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 21:51:07 +0100, Peter > wrote:

>All great stuff to make your brain go dead :)

Reading through the link you provided has already accomplished that :-).
About all I can be certain of is that the rules have changed since the last
time I paid 10,000 esc for a 90 day license; and that getting reciprocity
on my FAA ratings might be possible; but it seems as if they want to see my
*original* FAA license. That might mean a trip to Lisbon; or it might be
that a "local" examiner can sign me off. I may check with the local flying
club when we get there. Hopefully they will have a more accurate
interpretation of the regs as they currently apply.

And thanks again for the pointer.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Scott Skylane]

Peter wrote:
/snip/
> But that wasn't my question. I was interested to know why the FAA FAQ
> says a *commercial* license is required when "using instruments". It
> seems a gross error in what should be an authoritative FAA statement.
>

Peter,

Welcome to the wonderful world of the FAA.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane