Training in flight school aircraft

[Scott Migaldi]

Now that I am an aircraft owner I wanted to do some training in my
aircraft before I take it up into IMC. I have been doing the typical VFR
types of drills on my own, stalls, slow flight TO/landings, I even shot
some approaches in VFR but not under the hood to make sure all the
gizmos worked. Now I want to be under the hood with a CFII to do some
approaches, holds, DME arc, and unusual attitudes. I contacted a local
flight school to set up an appointment time with an instructor. All was
fine until they asked which of their planes I would be in. I told them I
would be in my own plane and that was the point of all of this. They
stated they did not do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school
aircraft as their insurance would not cover them.

Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?
--
--------------------
Scott F. Migaldi
CP-ASEL-IA
N8116B

PADI MI-150972
Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/

--------------------

[Ross Richardson]

I received all my instrument training using my aircraft. I didn't have
any problems with our local flight school, but times are different. The
DE that I took my ride with also had his own flight school with
aircraft. He told me he would soon shut down that operation due to
insurance costs.


Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


Scott Migaldi wrote:
> Now that I am an aircraft owner I wanted to do some training in my
> aircraft before I take it up into IMC. I have been doing the typical VFR
> types of drills on my own, stalls, slow flight TO/landings, I even shot
> some approaches in VFR but not under the hood to make sure all the
> gizmos worked. Now I want to be under the hood with a CFII to do some
> approaches, holds, DME arc, and unusual attitudes. I contacted a local
> flight school to set up an appointment time with an instructor. All was
> fine until they asked which of their planes I would be in. I told them I
> would be in my own plane and that was the point of all of this. They
> stated they did not do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school
> aircraft as their insurance would not cover them.
>
> Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?

[Gig 601XL Builder]

There are liability issues if the instuctor screws up that your carrier
might choose to try and subrogate. More likely though they just want to rent
airplanes.

Find a new instructor.



"Scott Migaldi" > wrote in message
...
> Now that I am an aircraft owner I wanted to do some training in my
> aircraft before I take it up into IMC. I have been doing the typical VFR
> types of drills on my own, stalls, slow flight TO/landings, I even shot
> some approaches in VFR but not under the hood to make sure all the gizmos
> worked. Now I want to be under the hood with a CFII to do some approaches,
> holds, DME arc, and unusual attitudes. I contacted a local flight school
> to set up an appointment time with an instructor. All was fine until they
> asked which of their planes I would be in. I told them I would be in my
> own plane and that was the point of all of this. They stated they did not
> do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school aircraft as their insurance
> would not cover them.
>
> Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?
> --

[Michael]

> They
> stated they did not do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school
> aircraft as their insurance would not cover them.

What insurance? Do they have professional liability coverage for their
instructors? I highly doubt it. More likely they just want to rent
their planes. However, the insurance issue is not absolutely
impossible.

> Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> covers the flight?

Your insurance covers you. It is conceivable (though highly unlikely)
that the insurance company would choose to subrogate against the CFI -
for example, in the event of a midair (since you were presumably under
the hood and the CFI was responsible for collision avoidance). Of
course there's probably nothing to get from the CFI, but if he is
provided by the flight school (either as employee or contractor) and
they take a cut of the money, they also bear responsibility. It's not
likely, but it's not impossible either (especially in the event of a
midair).

The real solution? Find an independent. Odds are you will get better
training anyway.

Michael

[NW_PILOT]

Take them a subrogate waiver! if they refuse tell them to stick it and walk
out and get you a independent.


"Scott Migaldi" > wrote in message
...
> Now that I am an aircraft owner I wanted to do some training in my
> aircraft before I take it up into IMC. I have been doing the typical VFR
> types of drills on my own, stalls, slow flight TO/landings, I even shot
> some approaches in VFR but not under the hood to make sure all the
> gizmos worked. Now I want to be under the hood with a CFII to do some
> approaches, holds, DME arc, and unusual attitudes. I contacted a local
> flight school to set up an appointment time with an instructor. All was
> fine until they asked which of their planes I would be in. I told them I
> would be in my own plane and that was the point of all of this. They
> stated they did not do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school
> aircraft as their insurance would not cover them.
>
> Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?
> --
> --------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi
> CP-ASEL-IA
> N8116B
>
> PADI MI-150972
> Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/
>
> --------------------

[[email protected]]

The flight school I used would train in your aircraft, but they charged
$8 more per hour to do so, using insurance as the excuse. Considering
what CFIIs get (compared to golf pros) this was not an awful number,
but I ended up using an independent anyway.

-cwk.

[[email protected]]

I have never had any problem obtaining the services of a CFII from flight
schools for dual instruction, BFRs, and/or IPCs in my plane. This includes
both large schools and small ones.

You can either call a different school or look for a "freelancer". This is
a common need of airplane owners, so if you post your location on the RAO
board you will likely get some recommendations

--
-Elliott Drucker

[Steve Foley]

Post your base airport name, and you'll probably get a few referrals for a
good CFII.


"Scott Migaldi" > wrote in message
...
> They
> stated they did not do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school
> aircraft as their insurance would not cover them.
>
> Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?
> --
> --------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi
> CP-ASEL-IA
> N8116B
>
> PADI MI-150972
> Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/
>
> --------------------

[Andrew Sarangan]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> There are liability issues if the instuctor screws up that your carrier
> might choose to try and subrogate. More likely though they just want to rent
> airplanes.
>
> Find a new instructor.
>
>
>
> "Scott Migaldi" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Now that I am an aircraft owner I wanted to do some training in my
> > aircraft before I take it up into IMC. I have been doing the typical VFR
> > types of drills on my own, stalls, slow flight TO/landings, I even shot
> > some approaches in VFR but not under the hood to make sure all the gizmos
> > worked. Now I want to be under the hood with a CFII to do some approaches,
> > holds, DME arc, and unusual attitudes. I contacted a local flight school
> > to set up an appointment time with an instructor. All was fine until they
> > asked which of their planes I would be in. I told them I would be in my
> > own plane and that was the point of all of this. They stated they did not
> > do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school aircraft as their insurance
> > would not cover them.
> >
> > Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> > covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?



I am an independent CFI, and I only instruct in some one elses airplane
if I know them well and trust their maintenance. In general, in request
that my name be added to their insurance policy. Most independent
CFI's are employed elsewhere, and have assets to protect. It is not
worth risking all that just to make just a few hundred dollars.

[Robbie S.]

Scott,

I am currently working on my IFR in my own plane. The club does not charge
me anything extra for "insurance coverage" or any other bs charge. I'd say
get yourself another instructor.

....Robbie.


"Scott Migaldi" > wrote in message
...
> Now that I am an aircraft owner I wanted to do some training in my
> aircraft before I take it up into IMC. I have been doing the typical VFR
> types of drills on my own, stalls, slow flight TO/landings, I even shot
> some approaches in VFR but not under the hood to make sure all the gizmos
> worked. Now I want to be under the hood with a CFII to do some approaches,
> holds, DME arc, and unusual attitudes. I contacted a local flight school
> to set up an appointment time with an instructor. All was fine until they
> asked which of their planes I would be in. I told them I would be in my
> own plane and that was the point of all of this. They stated they did not
> do any training, BFRs, or IPCs in a non-school aircraft as their insurance
> would not cover them.
>
> Since I am the PIC and it is my airplane is it not my insurance that
> covers the flight? has anyone else run into this before?
> --
> --------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi
> CP-ASEL-IA
> N8116B
>
> PADI MI-150972
> Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/
>
> --------------------