Problematic medical for potential new student?

[Doug S]

So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years of
saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years ago)
until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
*definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are my
chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting
all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will receive the
waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the waiver is probable,
what steps should I take? Should I get the records together first and then
take the medical? See, I don't want to even start taking instruction (and
spend the $$) if there's not much of a chance that I'll be able to get the
cert...

In a nutshell:
31 year old otherwise healthy male (6'3" 190 lbs).

1998 or so, taken to the hospital due to an anxiety attack (severe heartburn
thought to be a heart attack that snowballed). Nothing serious, haven't had
one since...
12/00 - DUI
10/01, 02/02 - Hospitalizations for situational depression. (1 week each
time) Was prescribed Paxil at the time (see below)
08/02 - Over night observation hospitalization for slip-and-fall with loss
of conciousness. All tests (CT, Xray) negative, no residual effects
apparant.

Since about 1994 or so, I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my
knees. I have taken everything from Advil to Vioxx for relief (see below)

In early 2003, I was taken off the Paxil by my GP, showing no signs of
depression.

Now, within the past year or so, I started getting severe headaches. Note:
I have NOT seen a neurologist; but these headaches have been diagnosed by my
GP as migraine (with aura, by the way, so I actually know about 10 minutes
before they occur). At their peak they were occurring about 4-5 times a
month. This was also about the time that my GP put me on the COX-2
Inhibitor class of drugs (Vioxx/Bextra/Celebrex) for my knees. We were
playing "musical chairs" with the drugs to try to find the best acting drug
(none of them seemed to be particularly effective). This was due to..

Fatty liver diagnosis. I need to stay away from Tylenol and alcohol...

Anyway, back to the migraines. I was NOT put on any prophylactic for the
migranes, but prescribed a triptan for treating the attacks (specifically
Relpax).

About February of this year, my GP put my on Daypro (NSAID class) for my
knees and took me off the COX-2s. Since then (actually about 2 weeks
later), my migraines have stopped occurring...I have not required a dosage
of Relpax. Now I am beginning to wonder if it was actually the COX-2 drugs
that were partially responsible for the migraines.

So currently, my medical status is:

1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and also
alcohol.
2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to the
liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug, but am
first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications. No
attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug switching.
4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no discernable
side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with food.


What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?

Thanks...

[Fred Choate]

I would say to go get the medical and see. If it is denied, you are only
out $100 roughly, but you may find out that you are qualified.

Also, there is the sport pilot stuff now, where you only need a drivers
license I believe. I actually haven't read all the sport pilot
requirements, but that is an option to look into if you can't get the
medical approved for the private rating.

Fred

"Doug S" > wrote in message
...
> So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years of
> saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
> Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years
> ago) until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
> *definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are my
> chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting
> all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will receive the
> waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the waiver is probable,
> what steps should I take? Should I get the records together first and
> then take the medical? See, I don't want to even start taking instruction
> (and spend the $$) if there's not much of a chance that I'll be able to
> get the cert...
>
> In a nutshell:
> 31 year old otherwise healthy male (6'3" 190 lbs).
>
> 1998 or so, taken to the hospital due to an anxiety attack (severe
> heartburn thought to be a heart attack that snowballed). Nothing serious,
> haven't had one since...
> 12/00 - DUI
> 10/01, 02/02 - Hospitalizations for situational depression. (1 week each
> time) Was prescribed Paxil at the time (see below)
> 08/02 - Over night observation hospitalization for slip-and-fall with loss
> of conciousness. All tests (CT, Xray) negative, no residual effects
> apparant.
>
> Since about 1994 or so, I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my
> knees. I have taken everything from Advil to Vioxx for relief (see below)
>
> In early 2003, I was taken off the Paxil by my GP, showing no signs of
> depression.
>
> Now, within the past year or so, I started getting severe headaches.
> Note: I have NOT seen a neurologist; but these headaches have been
> diagnosed by my GP as migraine (with aura, by the way, so I actually know
> about 10 minutes before they occur). At their peak they were occurring
> about 4-5 times a month. This was also about the time that my GP put me
> on the COX-2 Inhibitor class of drugs (Vioxx/Bextra/Celebrex) for my
> knees. We were playing "musical chairs" with the drugs to try to find the
> best acting drug (none of them seemed to be particularly effective). This
> was due to..
>
> Fatty liver diagnosis. I need to stay away from Tylenol and alcohol...
>
> Anyway, back to the migraines. I was NOT put on any prophylactic for the
> migranes, but prescribed a triptan for treating the attacks (specifically
> Relpax).
>
> About February of this year, my GP put my on Daypro (NSAID class) for my
> knees and took me off the COX-2s. Since then (actually about 2 weeks
> later), my migraines have stopped occurring...I have not required a dosage
> of Relpax. Now I am beginning to wonder if it was actually the COX-2
> drugs that were partially responsible for the migraines.
>
> So currently, my medical status is:
>
> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and
> also alcohol.
> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to the
> liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug, but am
> first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications.
> No attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug switching.
> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no discernable
> side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with food.
>
>
> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>
> Thanks...
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Daniel L. Lieberman]

Before following Fred's advice below I would check the Sport Pilot medical
info. I think a refusal of a medical may prevent you from using a driver's
license for light sport.


"Fred Choate" > wrote in message
...
>I would say to go get the medical and see. If it is denied, you are only
>out $100 roughly, but you may find out that you are qualified.
>
> Also, there is the sport pilot stuff now, where you only need a drivers
> license I believe. I actually haven't read all the sport pilot
> requirements, but that is an option to look into if you can't get the
> medical approved for the private rating.
>
> Fred
>
> "Doug S" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years of
>> saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
>> Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years
>> ago) until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
>> *definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are my
>> chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of
>> getting all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will
>> receive the waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the waiver
>> is probable, what steps should I take? Should I get the records together
>> first and then take the medical? See, I don't want to even start taking
>> instruction (and spend the $$) if there's not much of a chance that I'll
>> be able to get the cert...
>>
>> In a nutshell:
>> 31 year old otherwise healthy male (6'3" 190 lbs).
>>
>> 1998 or so, taken to the hospital due to an anxiety attack (severe
>> heartburn thought to be a heart attack that snowballed). Nothing
>> serious, haven't had one since...
>> 12/00 - DUI
>> 10/01, 02/02 - Hospitalizations for situational depression. (1 week each
>> time) Was prescribed Paxil at the time (see below)
>> 08/02 - Over night observation hospitalization for slip-and-fall with
>> loss of conciousness. All tests (CT, Xray) negative, no residual effects
>> apparant.
>>
>> Since about 1994 or so, I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my
>> knees. I have taken everything from Advil to Vioxx for relief (see below)
>>
>> In early 2003, I was taken off the Paxil by my GP, showing no signs of
>> depression.
>>
>> Now, within the past year or so, I started getting severe headaches.
>> Note: I have NOT seen a neurologist; but these headaches have been
>> diagnosed by my GP as migraine (with aura, by the way, so I actually know
>> about 10 minutes before they occur). At their peak they were occurring
>> about 4-5 times a month. This was also about the time that my GP put me
>> on the COX-2 Inhibitor class of drugs (Vioxx/Bextra/Celebrex) for my
>> knees. We were playing "musical chairs" with the drugs to try to find
>> the best acting drug (none of them seemed to be particularly effective).
>> This was due to..
>>
>> Fatty liver diagnosis. I need to stay away from Tylenol and alcohol...
>>
>> Anyway, back to the migraines. I was NOT put on any prophylactic for the
>> migranes, but prescribed a triptan for treating the attacks (specifically
>> Relpax).
>>
>> About February of this year, my GP put my on Daypro (NSAID class) for my
>> knees and took me off the COX-2s. Since then (actually about 2 weeks
>> later), my migraines have stopped occurring...I have not required a
>> dosage of Relpax. Now I am beginning to wonder if it was actually the
>> COX-2 drugs that were partially responsible for the migraines.
>>
>> So currently, my medical status is:
>>
>> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and
>> also alcohol.
>> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to the
>> liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug, but am
>> first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
>> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications.
>> No attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug
>> switching.
>> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no discernable
>> side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with food.
>>
>>
>> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Toks Desalu]

I am not the expert or have knowledge in mediations, but I am pretty sure
that in term of mediations, they do not look at the history. They are only
concerned about current medical status. I'm sure that you know that some
medications are forbidden in aviation. I do not know if any of medications
you are currently taking are forbidden. Here is what I found on FAA
website:

6. What medical conditions does the FAA consider disqualifying?
The following conditions are listed in the regulations as disqualifying
medical conditions; however, in many cases when the condition is adequately
controlled, the FAA will issue medical certification contingent on periodic
reports.

1.. Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medications
2.. Angina pectoris
3.. Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that
has been symptomatic or clinically significant
4.. Myocardial infarction
5.. Cardiac valve replacement
6.. Permanent cardiac pacemaker
7.. Heart replacement
8.. Psychosis
9.. Bipolar disease
10.. Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly
manifested itself by overt acts
11.. Substance dependence
12.. Substance abuse
13.. Epilepsy
14.. Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of
cause
15.. Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without
satisfactory explanation of cause.
Now in term of DUI, under parts 61 and 67, FAA may deny an application if an
individual has had two or more alcohol-related motor vehicle convictions or
state motor vehicle administrative action within a 3-year period. You had
DUI in 2000, which is more than 3 years ago. I believed that you are cleared
in that case, but you still have to report it.

I hope this information will guide you to the right direction, but keep in
mind that I am not the expert.

If you are not familiar with sport pilot, you might want to look into it in
term of requirements before you apply for medical certificate.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar!

[Fred Choate]

Dan, you may be right.......

I am reading the FAR's right now, and under 61.23 in section C paragraph 2
there is some language there that may support what you say.

Fred


"Daniel L. Lieberman" > wrote in message
...
> Before following Fred's advice below I would check the Sport Pilot medical
> info. I think a refusal of a medical may prevent you from using a driver's
> license for light sport.
>
>
> "Fred Choate" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I would say to go get the medical and see. If it is denied, you are only
>>out $100 roughly, but you may find out that you are qualified.
>>
>> Also, there is the sport pilot stuff now, where you only need a drivers
>> license I believe. I actually haven't read all the sport pilot
>> requirements, but that is an option to look into if you can't get the
>> medical approved for the private rating.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> "Doug S" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years
>>> of saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
>>> Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years
>>> ago) until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
>>> *definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are
>>> my chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of
>>> getting all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will
>>> receive the waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the waiver
>>> is probable, what steps should I take? Should I get the records
>>> together first and then take the medical? See, I don't want to even
>>> start taking instruction (and spend the $$) if there's not much of a
>>> chance that I'll be able to get the cert...
>>>
>>> In a nutshell:
>>> 31 year old otherwise healthy male (6'3" 190 lbs).
>>>
>>> 1998 or so, taken to the hospital due to an anxiety attack (severe
>>> heartburn thought to be a heart attack that snowballed). Nothing
>>> serious, haven't had one since...
>>> 12/00 - DUI
>>> 10/01, 02/02 - Hospitalizations for situational depression. (1 week each
>>> time) Was prescribed Paxil at the time (see below)
>>> 08/02 - Over night observation hospitalization for slip-and-fall with
>>> loss of conciousness. All tests (CT, Xray) negative, no residual
>>> effects apparant.
>>>
>>> Since about 1994 or so, I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my
>>> knees. I have taken everything from Advil to Vioxx for relief (see
>>> below)
>>>
>>> In early 2003, I was taken off the Paxil by my GP, showing no signs of
>>> depression.
>>>
>>> Now, within the past year or so, I started getting severe headaches.
>>> Note: I have NOT seen a neurologist; but these headaches have been
>>> diagnosed by my GP as migraine (with aura, by the way, so I actually
>>> know about 10 minutes before they occur). At their peak they were
>>> occurring about 4-5 times a month. This was also about the time that my
>>> GP put me on the COX-2 Inhibitor class of drugs (Vioxx/Bextra/Celebrex)
>>> for my knees. We were playing "musical chairs" with the drugs to try to
>>> find the best acting drug (none of them seemed to be particularly
>>> effective). This was due to..
>>>
>>> Fatty liver diagnosis. I need to stay away from Tylenol and alcohol...
>>>
>>> Anyway, back to the migraines. I was NOT put on any prophylactic for
>>> the migranes, but prescribed a triptan for treating the attacks
>>> (specifically Relpax).
>>>
>>> About February of this year, my GP put my on Daypro (NSAID class) for my
>>> knees and took me off the COX-2s. Since then (actually about 2 weeks
>>> later), my migraines have stopped occurring...I have not required a
>>> dosage of Relpax. Now I am beginning to wonder if it was actually the
>>> COX-2 drugs that were partially responsible for the migraines.
>>>
>>> So currently, my medical status is:
>>>
>>> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and
>>> also alcohol.
>>> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to
>>> the liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug,
>>> but am first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
>>> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications.
>>> No attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug
>>> switching.
>>> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no
>>> discernable side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with
>>> food.
>>>
>>>
>>> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>>>
>>> Thanks...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Hotel 179]

"... but you still have to report it."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Admit to nothing, deny everything, DEMAND proof. :)'

Stephen F. Pearce
Foley, Alabama

[Doug S]

In news:uzcAe.5205$rx4.2388@trndny05,
Toks Desalu > slavered, and posted this:
> I am not the expert or have knowledge in mediations, but I am pretty sure
> that in term of mediations, they do not look at the history. They are only
> concerned about current medical status. I'm sure that you know that some
> medications are forbidden in aviation. I do not know if any of medications
> you are currently taking are forbidden. Here is what I found on FAA
> website:
>
> 6. What medical conditions does the FAA consider disqualifying?
> The following conditions are listed in the regulations as disqualifying
> medical conditions; however, in many cases when the condition is
> adequately controlled, the FAA will issue medical certification
> contingent on periodic reports.
>
> 1.. Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medications
> 2.. Angina pectoris
> 3.. Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that
> has been symptomatic or clinically significant
> 4.. Myocardial infarction
> 5.. Cardiac valve replacement
> 6.. Permanent cardiac pacemaker
> 7.. Heart replacement
> 8.. Psychosis
> 9.. Bipolar disease
> 10.. Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly
> manifested itself by overt acts
> 11.. Substance dependence
> 12.. Substance abuse
> 13.. Epilepsy
> 14.. Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of
> cause
> 15.. Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without
> satisfactory explanation of cause.
> Now in term of DUI, under parts 61 and 67, FAA may deny an application if
> an individual has had two or more alcohol-related motor vehicle
> convictions or state motor vehicle administrative action within a 3-year
> period. You had DUI in 2000, which is more than 3 years ago. I believed
> that you are cleared in that case, but you still have to report it.
>
> I hope this information will guide you to the right direction, but keep in
> mind that I am not the expert.
>
> If you are not familiar with sport pilot, you might want to look into it
> in term of requirements before you apply for medical certificate.
>
> Toks Desalu
> PP-ASEL
> Dyin' to Soar!


Huh. Interesting. When I looked at the information, migraine headaches
were one of the disqualifying medical conditions. From my understanding (I
believe the FAA website also has the drug list), migraines are allowable if
under control through a prophylactic drug (e.g. beta blocker) with no
reported side effects. Imitrex (another triptan type) is allowed, but
Relpax (the one I take if necessary) is not (although i would be willing to
switch); however, since I don't remember the website I was on, the info on
the site may be out of date. Relpax is a fairly new drug and may not have
made it yet. I *do* know that Daypro is an approved drug. And like I said,
I am not on any cholestorol lowering agents. My original post was more a
question of "are all these things cumulative." I mean, a history of only
migraines or only sit. depression is one thing, but would having had all
those things in combination make it more likely for denial...

As far as the Sport Pilot is concerned, I was trying to avoid that, mainly
because I live in a very busy class B area that has some weird weather
patterns (Detroit Metro); and aside from Plymouth-Mettetal (1D2), there's
not much in the way of uncontrolled airspace around here :)

[Capt. Geoffry Thorpe]

>
> As far as the Sport Pilot is concerned, I was trying to avoid that, mainly
> because I live in a very busy class B area that has some weird weather
> patterns (Detroit Metro); and aside from Plymouth-Mettetal (1D2), there's
> not much in the way of uncontrolled airspace around here :)

Fly out of New Hudson if you are on that end of town. Grosse Ile to the
south etc. etc.

There are active glider clubs out towards Pinkney, Monroe, Manchester and
somewhere up past Romeo depending on exactly where you live. You don't need
a medical for a glider. Plus, they are more entertaining than $100
hamburgers.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[[email protected]]

Doug S wrote:

> *definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are my
> chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting
> all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will receive the
> waiver.

Well, you're right in understanding that you have a complicated road
ahead. First questions:

1. How much money do you have?
2. How bad do you want it?

The FAA is, by global standards, very progressive on medical
certification. Whether you succeed depends in no small part on how hard
you are willing to work. The review board will no doubt ask for tests,
more tests, and tests to check the tests, few if any of which will be
covered under your medical insurance.

> So currently, my medical status is:
>
> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and also
> alcohol.
> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to the
> liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug, but am
> first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications. No
> attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug switching.
> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no discernable
> side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with food.
>
>
> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>

Prescription meds are one issue. Some are blessed by the FAA, others
are not. If you're using ones that are "bad," then you need to see if
you can switch to an approved alternative. Sometimes there is no
alternative, for instance, depression treated by prescription drugs is
a blanket no-go area. If you're off the drugs however, you should be OK
there.

I haven't read up on migraines much but IIRC certification is possible
if certain criteria are met relating to suppression through medication
and so on.

Not sure about the fatty liver, but I suspect it's not an issue unless
there's a medication conflict. Arthiritis? I have no idea but if it's
under control it's probably not a deal-killer.

The loss-of-consciousness event will complicate things significantly.
Not knowing any better, this plus the migraines would make me approach
the subject very cautiously.

A year ago the answer to this question was simple: go for it, you have
nothing to lose.

Now, with Sport Pilot, you do have something to lose. Specifically, you
can fly as a sport pilot using a so-called driver's license medical (as
proof of fitness to fly), but only if you have not previously been
denied an FAA medical certificate. If you are uncertifiable under
current standards (say for use of Prozac) and you apply for a medical,
then you lose the driver's license option.

In other words, if Sport Pilot provides all or most of what you want,
then I would focus my attention there first. The biggest downside right
now is that the infrastructure is lacking, and finding planes to rent,
instructors, etc will be harder, but it's going to get better, maybe
very quickly, over the next couple of years.

For more detailed and knowledgeable advice, a great place to start is
AOPA. A $40 membership buys you access to their medical team, who can
answer many questions.

Second, there are a number of specialist physicians out there who serve
as medical consultants to pilots. Many of their clients are airline
captains whose livelihood relies on getting certified, and they know as
well as anyone how to give a pilot the best chance of making the grade.
Naturally this is an added expense. If you want a cheaper hobby, have
you considered polo?

Best,
-cwk.

[James Ricks]

>Should I get the records together first and then
>take the medical? See, I don't want to even start taking instruction

>What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>
>Thanks...

Doug, it's my understanding that AOPA will help and/or advise on just these
situations. You may want to contact them and explain much as you have laid out
here your condition(s). On the other hand, there may be some that are left
well enough alone.

It's also my understanding that one can't fail a medical then receive a Sport
Pilot Certificate, however if one allows their Class 2/3 to expire, then
reverts to flying under Sport Pilot rules, that's cool. I know you mentioned
that you would prefer PPL to Sport Pilot, but some flying is better than none.

Jim

[[email protected]]

Doug S wrote:
> In news:uzcAe.5205$rx4.2388@trndny05,

> As far as the Sport Pilot is concerned, I was trying to avoid that, mainly
> because I live in a very busy class B area that has some weird weather
> patterns (Detroit Metro); and aside from Plymouth-Mettetal (1D2), there's
> not much in the way of uncontrolled airspace around here :)

Sport Pilots can fly in controlled airspace the same as Private Pilots
if they have a sign-off from an instructor. No big deal.

As for weather, IFR is a whole 'nother ball game. Bear in mind that a
minority of private pilots are instrument rated, and of those who are
rated, only a minority use it actively.

-cwk.

[Rod]

That is a fact: If you have been denied a medical, you can't fly sport
pilot either.

"Fred Choate" > wrote in message
...
> Dan, you may be right.......
>
> I am reading the FAR's right now, and under 61.23 in section C paragraph 2
> there is some language there that may support what you say.
>
> Fred
>
>
> "Daniel L. Lieberman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Before following Fred's advice below I would check the Sport Pilot
medical
> > info. I think a refusal of a medical may prevent you from using a
driver's
> > license for light sport.
> >
> >
> > "Fred Choate" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>I would say to go get the medical and see. If it is denied, you are
only
> >>out $100 roughly, but you may find out that you are qualified.
> >>
> >> Also, there is the sport pilot stuff now, where you only need a drivers
> >> license I believe. I actually haven't read all the sport pilot
> >> requirements, but that is an option to look into if you can't get the
> >> medical approved for the private rating.
> >>
> >> Fred
> >>
> >> "Doug S" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years
> >>> of saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
> >>> Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years
> >>> ago) until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
> >>> *definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are
> >>> my chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of
> >>> getting all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will
> >>> receive the waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the
waiver
> >>> is probable, what steps should I take? Should I get the records
> >>> together first and then take the medical? See, I don't want to even
> >>> start taking instruction (and spend the $$) if there's not much of a
> >>> chance that I'll be able to get the cert...
> >>>
> >>> In a nutshell:
> >>> 31 year old otherwise healthy male (6'3" 190 lbs).
> >>>
> >>> 1998 or so, taken to the hospital due to an anxiety attack (severe
> >>> heartburn thought to be a heart attack that snowballed). Nothing
> >>> serious, haven't had one since...
> >>> 12/00 - DUI
> >>> 10/01, 02/02 - Hospitalizations for situational depression. (1 week
each
> >>> time) Was prescribed Paxil at the time (see below)
> >>> 08/02 - Over night observation hospitalization for slip-and-fall with
> >>> loss of conciousness. All tests (CT, Xray) negative, no residual
> >>> effects apparant.
> >>>
> >>> Since about 1994 or so, I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in
my
> >>> knees. I have taken everything from Advil to Vioxx for relief (see
> >>> below)
> >>>
> >>> In early 2003, I was taken off the Paxil by my GP, showing no signs of
> >>> depression.
> >>>
> >>> Now, within the past year or so, I started getting severe headaches.
> >>> Note: I have NOT seen a neurologist; but these headaches have been
> >>> diagnosed by my GP as migraine (with aura, by the way, so I actually
> >>> know about 10 minutes before they occur). At their peak they were
> >>> occurring about 4-5 times a month. This was also about the time that
my
> >>> GP put me on the COX-2 Inhibitor class of drugs
(Vioxx/Bextra/Celebrex)
> >>> for my knees. We were playing "musical chairs" with the drugs to try
to
> >>> find the best acting drug (none of them seemed to be particularly
> >>> effective). This was due to..
> >>>
> >>> Fatty liver diagnosis. I need to stay away from Tylenol and
alcohol...
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, back to the migraines. I was NOT put on any prophylactic for
> >>> the migranes, but prescribed a triptan for treating the attacks
> >>> (specifically Relpax).
> >>>
> >>> About February of this year, my GP put my on Daypro (NSAID class) for
my
> >>> knees and took me off the COX-2s. Since then (actually about 2 weeks
> >>> later), my migraines have stopped occurring...I have not required a
> >>> dosage of Relpax. Now I am beginning to wonder if it was actually the
> >>> COX-2 drugs that were partially responsible for the migraines.
> >>>
> >>> So currently, my medical status is:
> >>>
> >>> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and
> >>> also alcohol.
> >>> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to
> >>> the liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug,
> >>> but am first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
> >>> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention
medications.
> >>> No attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug
> >>> switching.
> >>> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no
> >>> discernable side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with
> >>> food.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Jimbob]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:26:26 -0400, "Doug S" >
wrote:

>So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years of
>saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
>Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years ago)
>until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
>*definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are my
>chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting
>all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will receive the
>waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the waiver is probable,
>what steps should I take? Should I get the records together first and then
>take the medical? See, I don't want to even start taking instruction (and
>spend the $$) if there's not much of a chance that I'll be able to get the
>cert...


Doug,

I had a similar delima in that I wasn't sure I was going to get my
medical due to an old surgery. You can fly sport pilot currently, but
if you get denied an FAA medical, you can't.

I didn't want to ruin my chances for a sport pilot cert so this is the
procedure that I had to follow....

1) Call AOPA. Join if you haven't already.

2) Get a reference of a good, fair AME. Particularly one that isn't a
full time AME, but is a like a GP and does Flight meds one week a
month. You will need to talk to local pilots. Hang around your
local FBO.

3) Get every record you can find. Everything. Bring it with you. If
you have anything that needs to be reported, you better have the
records. Full disclosure. Since you have been on SSRI's, you need a
note from the prescribing doctor that you are off them, you are OK and
you were never a danger to yourself or other people.

3) Explain to your chosen AME that you want a regular medical, not a
flight medical. Explain also that your interested in a flight med.
but would like an evalauation first so you don't ruin your chances for
sportpilot. DON'T FILL OUT ANY FAA PAPERWORK UNTIL THE DOC HAS SEEN
YOU AND YOUR CHARTS!!!!!! (You may have to pay twice, but it will be
worth it)

4) If your doc says you don't have a good chance of passing, STOP!
Pay him and leave. Go for sportpilot.

5) If everything looks good, go for it. There is always a chance
that Oklahoma will overrule the doc, but that's a chance you will have
to take.


Good luck,


Jim

http://www.unconventional-wisdom.org

[George Patterson]

Fred Choate wrote:
> I would say to go get the medical and see. If it is denied, you are only
> out $100 roughly, but you may find out that you are qualified.
>
> Also, there is the sport pilot stuff now, where you only need a drivers
> license I believe. I actually haven't read all the sport pilot
> requirements, but that is an option to look into if you can't get the
> medical approved for the private rating.

If you intend to go the sport pilot route, don't even think about trying for a
medical certificate. If the certificate is denied, you will not be able to fly
sport pilot either.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Sylvain]

Doug S wrote:

> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?

there are far more qualified people than I on this newsgroup
to answer (e.g., Richard Kaplan) but from the point of view of
a 'end user' with a suboptimal medical background (color blind
and paraplegic) who went through the process (currently holding
a class-II) I'd say go for it (document everything, join AOPA,
get in touch with a good AME, etc.)

HOWEVER, before doing that, you might want to also talk about
a knowledgeable folks (AOPA again) about the option of going
for the sport pilot certificate instead (if I understand correctly,
as long as you have not been denied a medical and hold a driving
license you are fine, but as soon as you have been denied the
medical, then you have to go through the whole thing of getting
waivers and all that);

what do you guys think?

--Sylvain

[Chris Colohan]

George Patterson > writes:
> If you intend to go the sport pilot route, don't even think about
> trying for a medical certificate. If the certificate is denied, you
> will not be able to fly sport pilot either.

So this I don't understand.

My understanding of the sport pilot is "this is for folks who don't
want to invest the time, money, and effort it takes to get/maintain a
private pilot certificate."

On the other hand, many folks seem to think that the sport pilot
license is the license for folks who can't or think they can't pass a
medical.

Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
are in good health? If you think you may not pass a medical, can you
honestly say you think you are in good health?

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[Jose]

> Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
> are in good health? If you think you may not pass a medical, can you
> honestly say you think you are in good health?

"Good" has different values for different endeavors. One of the things
about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying certain
aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as
"good" health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for
a private pilot.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[George Patterson]

Chris Colohan wrote:
>
> Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
> are in good health?

Not that I know of. If you're healthy enough to drive, you're healthy enough to
fly under sport pilot rules.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[George Patterson]

Jimbob wrote:
>
> I didn't want to ruin my chances for a sport pilot cert so this is the
> procedure that I had to follow....

Excellent advice, IMO.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Michelle P]

Three years off medication and no symptoms of depression will be the big
hold up at this point.
Michelle

Doug S wrote:

>So currently, my medical status is:
>
>1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and also
>alcohol.
>2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to the
>liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug, but am
>first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
>3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications. No
>attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug switching.
>4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no discernable
>side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with food.
>
>
>What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>
>Thanks...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Sylvain wrote:
> HOWEVER, before doing that, you might want to also talk about
> a knowledgeable folks (AOPA again) about the option of going
> for the sport pilot certificate instead (if I understand correctly,
> as long as you have not been denied a medical and hold a driving
> license you are fine, but as soon as you have been denied the
> medical, then you have to go through the whole thing of getting
> waivers and all that);
>
> what do you guys think?


Let your conscience be your guide. I had a medical examiner tell me the bottom
line with the FAA is that they're trying to prevent a pilot from becoming
incapacitated while at the controls. Is that likely to happen to you? If so,
you should forget the whole thing and just pay an instructor for dual if you
feel the itch to fly.

If you honestly think you're intact enough that you wouldn't be a danger to
yourself or others then I'd be very circumspect in my dealings with the FAA.
There has been some excellent advice already offered suggesting you lay it all
out for a medical examiner BEFORE you fill out any paperwork. He ought to know
what he can get through and what he can't.

I went through a 15 year dry spell courtesy of the FAA and their glorious
medical department. I'd been tentatively hired by USAirways Express as a pilot
and went in to get my 1st class medical renewed (I'd previously gotten one so I
could take the ATP written). As I had passed the triggering age, I was required
to submit to an EKG while hooked up through a modem to Oklahoma City. Although
my doc didn't see anything strange, the FAA did and requested that I submit to a
treadmill stress test a few months after I'd applied for the 1st class. Those
things are expensive.. a couple of thousand dollars.

In the meanwhile, the airline job fell through, my air cargo company went belly
up and I applied to nursing school. Since flying was no longer my primary
activity, I blew off the FAA. They in turn sent me a nastygram stating until I
got a clear treadmill, I was not to fly. Well, alrighty....

I graduated, became a nurse, got fat, developed diabetes and sleep apnea... I
was falling apart.

Fast forward from 1990 to 2003: I was being worked up for a laproscopic gastric
bypass. The anesthesiologist wanted me to have an EKG since I hadn't had one in
years. It showed I'd had a probably heart attack. Funny, you'd think I'd
remember wuch an event but truly I didn't. He sent me to a cardiologist who did
a dobutamine stress test. It said I'd had a probable heart attack. I was then
sent for a heart cath and was mentally prepared for the insertion of a stent.
Forget flying... my gastric bypass was at risk at this point.

I had the heart cath. It showed that 1) I am allergic to Betadine and 2) my
coronary arteries were as clear as the day I was born. All previous indications
were false positives.

I had the gastric bypass, followed the next year by a hip replacement. My
diabetes (which was always controlled by oral medication) dried up. My high
blood pressure dropped. My cholesterol level dropped. My weight plummeted. My
sleep apnea went away. In other words, I waws back in good health. I take no
medication today.

I dragged every bit of documentation to my medical examiner and he punched it
through. I walked out that same day with a brand new third class medical. Next
year I may try for another second class... maybe I won't. But at least I'm
flying again, no thanks to the feds.

The cost of my cardiac workup was a little over $10,000. How many folks have
that to throw around? Particularly cargo pilots?

Frankly, I think if you WANT to fly, you need two doctors: one for your FAA
physical and the other for everything else. The two gentlemen should never
meet. Your primary care physician doesn't need to know about your flying.

OTOH, if you're flying for a living and want to retire, you only need one
physician. You can tell him *all* your problems.

The bottom line: take the train if you think you're a risk. If not, be cautious
in any dealings with the FAA, unless you have money to burn.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jose wrote:
>. One of the things
> about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying certain
> aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
> would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as
> "good" health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for
> a private pilot.


Do you honestly think there aren't restrictions for private pilots? Try to rent
a B-747. Or even a Baron, if you lack a MEL rating. We won't even go into the
VFR-only types.

There are nothing but restrictions. It doesn't really matter what level of
license you hold.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Matt Barrow]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:v3kAe.5296$rx4.2689@trndny05...
> Chris Colohan wrote:
> >
> > Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
> > are in good health?
>
> Not that I know of. If you're healthy enough to drive, you're healthy
enough to
> fly under sport pilot rules.
>

Based on what I've seen of some of the retirement villages (i.e., Leisure
World, aka "Seizure World") in Arizona, that's scary.

[W P Dixon]

Remember,
Alot of states will take your drivers license if you have periods of
passing out or seizure. I just wonder how many people admit this to their
states DMV's though? With sport pilot, it will be up to you to admit you can
not fly safely. By all means if you have a condition that would restrict
your driver's license in anyway, don't fly just to get around the FAA rules.
I would advise seeing a doctor and getting his opinion on your conditions ,
and what those conditions may or may not do during flight as well as
medications. I sure ain't a MD so I would not begin to tell you that you can
or can't fly. But I can say use common sense and make sure you are safe to
fly before you do ;) It's only going to take one person having an accident
when they should have never been in the air in the first place and the
driver's license medical is going to go Bye Bye for everyone, IMHO.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
m...
> Sylvain wrote:
>> HOWEVER, before doing that, you might want to also talk about
>> a knowledgeable folks (AOPA again) about the option of going
>> for the sport pilot certificate instead (if I understand correctly,
>> as long as you have not been denied a medical and hold a driving
>> license you are fine, but as soon as you have been denied the
>> medical, then you have to go through the whole thing of getting
>> waivers and all that);
>>
>> what do you guys think?
>
>
> Let your conscience be your guide. I had a medical examiner tell me the
> bottom line with the FAA is that they're trying to prevent a pilot from
> becoming incapacitated while at the controls. Is that likely to happen to
> you? If so, you should forget the whole thing and just pay an instructor
> for dual if you feel the itch to fly.
>
> If you honestly think you're intact enough that you wouldn't be a danger
> to yourself or others then I'd be very circumspect in my dealings with the
> FAA. There has been some excellent advice already offered suggesting you
> lay it all out for a medical examiner BEFORE you fill out any paperwork.
> He ought to know what he can get through and what he can't.
>
> I went through a 15 year dry spell courtesy of the FAA and their glorious
> medical department. I'd been tentatively hired by USAirways Express as a
> pilot and went in to get my 1st class medical renewed (I'd previously
> gotten one so I could take the ATP written). As I had passed the
> triggering age, I was required to submit to an EKG while hooked up through
> a modem to Oklahoma City. Although my doc didn't see anything strange,
> the FAA did and requested that I submit to a treadmill stress test a few
> months after I'd applied for the 1st class. Those things are expensive..
> a couple of thousand dollars.
>
> In the meanwhile, the airline job fell through, my air cargo company went
> belly up and I applied to nursing school. Since flying was no longer my
> primary activity, I blew off the FAA. They in turn sent me a nastygram
> stating until I got a clear treadmill, I was not to fly. Well,
> alrighty....
>
> I graduated, became a nurse, got fat, developed diabetes and sleep
> apnea... I was falling apart.
>
> Fast forward from 1990 to 2003: I was being worked up for a laproscopic
> gastric bypass. The anesthesiologist wanted me to have an EKG since I
> hadn't had one in years. It showed I'd had a probably heart attack.
> Funny, you'd think I'd remember wuch an event but truly I didn't. He sent
> me to a cardiologist who did a dobutamine stress test. It said I'd had a
> probable heart attack. I was then sent for a heart cath and was mentally
> prepared for the insertion of a stent. Forget flying... my gastric bypass
> was at risk at this point.
>
> I had the heart cath. It showed that 1) I am allergic to Betadine and 2)
> my coronary arteries were as clear as the day I was born. All previous
> indications were false positives.
>
> I had the gastric bypass, followed the next year by a hip replacement. My
> diabetes (which was always controlled by oral medication) dried up. My
> high blood pressure dropped. My cholesterol level dropped. My weight
> plummeted. My sleep apnea went away. In other words, I waws back in good
> health. I take no medication today.
>
> I dragged every bit of documentation to my medical examiner and he punched
> it through. I walked out that same day with a brand new third class
> medical. Next year I may try for another second class... maybe I won't.
> But at least I'm flying again, no thanks to the feds.
>
> The cost of my cardiac workup was a little over $10,000. How many folks
> have that to throw around? Particularly cargo pilots?
>
> Frankly, I think if you WANT to fly, you need two doctors: one for your
> FAA physical and the other for everything else. The two gentlemen should
> never meet. Your primary care physician doesn't need to know about your
> flying.
>
> OTOH, if you're flying for a living and want to retire, you only need one
> physician. You can tell him *all* your problems.
>
> The bottom line: take the train if you think you're a risk. If not, be
> cautious in any dealings with the FAA, unless you have money to burn.
>
>
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[George Patterson]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
>
> Frankly, I think if you WANT to fly, you need two doctors: one for your FAA
> physical and the other for everything else. The two gentlemen should never
> meet. Your primary care physician doesn't need to know about your flying.

Yep, that's what I've always done.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Jose]

>> One of the things
>> about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying certain
>> aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
>> would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as
>> "good" health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for
>> a private pilot.
>
> Do you honestly think there aren't restrictions for private pilots?

I write carefully, please read carefully.

I said a pp would not have =those= restrictions. This is not the same
as saying a pp would not have =any= restrictions. A sport pilot may not
fly some of the aircraft that a private pilot may fly. That is to say,
there exist aircraft that a private pilot may fly, but a sport pilot may
not fly. To my knowledge, there are no aircraft that a sport pilot may
fly, which a private pilot may not fly, solely on the basis of the
private/sport designation. A sport pilot is more restricted than a
private pilot.

I honestly do not think that there aren't restrictions for private
pilots. Do you honestly think I think otherwise? Never mind, don't
bother wasting time in the thread.

Jose
r.a.student retained, though I don't follow that group
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Morgans]

"Doug S" > wrote

> As far as the Sport Pilot is concerned, I was trying to avoid that, mainly
> because I live in a very busy class B area that has some weird weather
> patterns (Detroit Metro); and aside from Plymouth-Mettetal (1D2), there's
> not much in the way of uncontrolled airspace around here :)

Sport pilots may fly in any class of airport. You only have to get a one
time sign-off from a CFI.

My feelings about the chance of you getting a medical, is about zero, unless
you are less than forthcoming about past situations.
--
Jim in NC

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jose wrote:
>>> One of the things about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying
>>> certain aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
>>> would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as "good"
>>> health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for a private
>>> pilot.
>>
>> Do you honestly think there aren't restrictions for private pilots?
>
> I write carefully, please read carefully.
>
> I said a pp would not have =those= restrictions. This is not the same
> as saying a pp would not have =any= restrictions.


There is nothing wrong with my comprehension of what I read. Your writing is
not as accurate as you seem to think it is. You speak of specifics *now*; you
spoke in sweeping generalities *then*.


> A sport pilot may not fly some of the aircraft that a private pilot may fly.
> That is to say, there exist aircraft that a private pilot may fly, but a sport
> pilot may not fly. To my knowledge, there are no aircraft that a sport pilot
> may fly, which a private pilot may not fly, solely on the basis of the
> private/sport designation. A sport pilot is more restricted than a private
> pilot.
> I honestly do not think that there aren't restrictions for private
> pilots. Do you honestly think I think otherwise? Never mind, don't
> bother wasting time in the thread.


Save your sarcasm for someone who gives a ****. You don't want to know what I
honestly think.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Peter Duniho]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:v3kAe.5296$rx4.2689@trndny05...
> Chris Colohan wrote:
>>
>> Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
>> are in good health?
>
> Not that I know of. If you're healthy enough to drive, you're healthy
> enough to fly under sport pilot rules.

Note this clause:

FAR 61.23 (c)(2)(iv) Not know or have reason to know
of any medical condition that would make that person
unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner

IMHO, this is almost as good a catch-all as the "careless or reckless" in
FAR 91.13. That is, if a pilot were involved in any kind of incident in
which a medical condition could be blamed, and the pilot either knew of the
medical condition, or should have known of the medical condition, the FAA is
likely to say that the incident is proof that the "known or have reason to
know" medical condition made that person unable to operate a LSA in a safe
manner.

Just for the icing on the cake, the FAA also is likely to get to interpret
the "have reason to know" clause however they like.

It's not clear to me that they could come after a pilot for violating the
FAA's various medical standards for the medical certificate (prohibited
drugs, for example), but it's not clear to me that they couldn't, either.
The FAA could argue that their list of disqualifying medical conditions in
and of itself constitutes medical conditions that would make a person unable
to operate a LSA in a safe manner.

The bottom line here is that, no...just having a driver's license is not
sufficient. But what exactly IS sufficient is currently a very gray area,
primarily because no one has been violated by the FAA for breaking this rule
(so we have no real idea how it will be applied).

Pete

[Mike Gaskins]

I wonder what the following situation would be:

Lets say you have a valid medical, go in, and are denied the next one
(for some improvable reason, like you failed the eye exam or high blood
pressure). You then later return and pass the medical. After the
valid one expires, can you then fly Sport Pilot? It would really bite
to not have the option if someone failed an eye exam or something 20
years ago because they didn't know they needed glasses yet.

[[email protected]]

Jimbob wrote:

> 3) Explain to your chosen AME that you want a regular medical, not a
> flight medical. Explain also that your interested in a flight med.
> but would like an evalauation first so you don't ruin your chances for
> sportpilot. DON'T FILL OUT ANY FAA PAPERWORK UNTIL THE DOC HAS SEEN
> YOU AND YOUR CHARTS!!!!!! (You may have to pay twice, but it will be
> worth it)

Another option I've heard used is to request a DOT physical (what truck
drivers get), which has very similar standards. This allows you to
further increase your "plausible deniability" in case any red flags
come up.

-cwk.

[Peter Duniho]

"Mike Gaskins" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I wonder what the following situation would be:
>
> Lets say you have a valid medical, go in, and are denied the next one
> (for some improvable reason, like you failed the eye exam or high blood
> pressure). You then later return and pass the medical. After the
> valid one expires, can you then fly Sport Pilot?

Yes. The requirement is that you not have been denied for your most recent
medical certificate application. Previous denials would not be relevant.

All of which is stated very clearly in the relevant FAR, of course.

Pete

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Mike Gaskins" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I wonder what the following situation would be:
>
> Lets say you have a valid medical, go in, and are denied the next one
> (for some improvable reason, like you failed the eye exam or high blood
> pressure). You then later return and pass the medical. After the
> valid one expires, can you then fly Sport Pilot? It would really bite
> to not have the option if someone failed an eye exam or something 20
> years ago because they didn't know they needed glasses yet.
>

It basically boils down to how your last medical expired. If it expired and
wasn't denied or revoked your good to go. So in the case you outline above
you are OK.

Another example would be Joe Blow gets a waiver for a condition and then
lets the medical and the waiver attached to it expire he is still good to
go.

[Morgans]

> wrote

> Another option I've heard used is to request a DOT physical (what truck
> drivers get), which has very similar standards. This allows you to
> further increase your "plausible deniability" in case any red flags
> come up.

You have heard wrong. The DOT physical is laughable, in comparison to the
FAA physical.
--
Jim in NC

[Bryan Mason]

Doug S wrote:
> So, after a few years of putting it off (actually..."after a few years of
> saving enough $$$"), I decided I want to get a private pilot cert.
> Welllll...from the time that I first wanted to do that (about 10 years ago)
> until now, I've had some changes in my medical status, which will
> *definitely* require a waiver. The question to the group is, what are my
> chances? In other words, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting
> all my records together if there's not much of a chance I will receive the
> waiver. On the other hand, if people think that the waiver is probable,
> what steps should I take? Should I get the records together first and then
> take the medical? See, I don't want to even start taking instruction (and
> spend the $$) if there's not much of a chance that I'll be able to get the
> cert...
>
> In a nutshell:
> 31 year old otherwise healthy male (6'3" 190 lbs).
>

[--snip--]

>
> So currently, my medical status is:
>
> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and also
> alcohol.
> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to the
> liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug, but am
> first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention medications. No
> attack in the past four months, could be related to the drug switching.
> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no discernable
> side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with food.
>
>
> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>

After having just gone through FAA Medical Certification Hell, here's a
couple of thoughts, tips, etc. I can't say if it's possible or not, but
hopefully I can give you an idea of what's involved. It's been a pain
in the butt for me, but it's well worth it to be able to fly an airplane
by myself.

* Start this process as soon as you even think you might possibly
contemplate take a lesson. I started the medical certification process
at the same time I started taking lessons. It took me almost a year to
get my medical certification (special issuance actually) and I've been
wasting some time in my flying becuase I couldn't solo until recently.
(On the up side, my landings have been really good becuase my CFI and I
have been doing *lots* of pattern work waiting for my medical clearance).

* Talk to an AME (Airman Medical Examiner) ASAP. He/She will be able to
tell you what your chances are. Just be honest with them and they
should tell you what to do to make it happen (if you're in the SF Bay
Area, I would wholehartedly recommend my AME).

* Join and work with the AOPA. They have lots of medical resources on
their Web site. You can request that their medical people talk with the
FAA to provide updates so you have some visibility into the process,
which otherwise is like dropping an application into a black hole and
hoping it reappears as a medical certification three months later.

* Be prepared to work with your doctor(s) to provide *lots* of
documentation. And make sure to provide it by their deadlines. In my
case, I have Type-II Diabetes (orally controlled), hypertension, a
history of kidney stones and a family history of heart disease. I had
to provide:
1) a note from my doctor with a description of my current diabetes
and high blood pressure control, a statement to the effect that
the kidney stones were a one-time occurence, and a list of all
the medications I'm currently taking, with any side effects
(I don't have any).
2) lab reports with my current HbA1C results (indicates overall
glucose control).
3) a rather detailed eye examination (my optometest had never
before done some of the tests that they asked for).
4) results of a a resting electrocardiogram (ECG)
5) a maximal stress ECG
I had multiple issues, so I probably had to provide more documentation
than most, but just be prepared.

* If you get your medical certification, it will probably be issued
under "special issuance" which means that it's not valid for the normal
3 years. You will probably have to provide additional information on
your condition on a shorter basis. For example, I need to provide
information on my diabetes every 12 months and on my hypertension every
24 months, in addition to my three-year physicals.

Someone once told me that the FAA will issue a medical certification if
you are warm and standing upright. I don't know if that's true or not,
but I know that I was worried that I wouldn't get mine and I'd have to
give up flying even before I started. As it turns out, I didn't have a
problem getting the certification and I've got most of the FAA's "hot
button" health issues (diabetes, hypertension, kidney stones).

-- Bryan

[Cub Driver]

On 11 Jul 2005 10:07:12 -0700, "Mike Gaskins" >
wrote:

> You then later return and pass the medical. After the
>valid one expires, can you then fly Sport Pilot?

Isn't that a special-issuance medical? It scrubs the record clean.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

Thanks for the story, Bryan. Wish I'd read it when I first decided to
get a certificate.

I was 66 at the time and likewise had to jump through hoops.

To your caveats about the FAA medical system, I'd add this one: some
conditions can come up to bite you years later. After I passed my
third biennial medical exam (which was done in the doc's office, like
the previous one), I got a letter from the FAA telling me that for my
next exam I must bring a narrative history of my asthma condition and
treatment. I was using an inhaler for exercise-induced asthma at the
time of my first medical, and still am, but for six years it was never
an issue. Now it is.

Who knows? Perhaps somebody at the FAA was shuffling through old
records. Or perhaps somebody, somewhere, crashed an airplane while
having an asthma attack, and the FAA did a computer search for
everyone on asthma meds.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Bryan Mason wrote:
> Someone once told me that the FAA will issue a medical certification if
> you are warm and standing upright. I don't know if that's true or not,
> but I know that I was worried that I wouldn't get mine and I'd have to
> give up flying even before I started. As it turns out, I didn't have a
> problem getting the certification and I've got most of the FAA's "hot
> button" health issues (diabetes, hypertension, kidney stones).


Wrong on both notes: the FAA is considerably pickier than just having a warm
upright body and you DID have a problem. Not having a problem would be the more
usual experience of going to see the examiner and walking out of his office
about $80 poorer but with a brand new medical in your wallet. Clearly, that did
not happen with you. Yours took a year or so.

Which is to say that your perserverance paid off and for that I congratulate
you. Many lesser beings would have given up.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Mike Weller]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:26:26 -0400, "Doug S" >
wrote:


There is obviously a bright red warning light flashing at you.

Heed it.

Mike Weller

[Margy]

Michelle P wrote:
> Three years off medication and no symptoms of depression will be the big
> hold up at this point.
> Michelle
>
> Doug S wrote:
>
>> So currently, my medical status is:
>>
>> 1) Fatty liver: Stay away from products containing Acetomenaphin , and
>> also alcohol.
>> 2) Borderline high cholestorol: My GP wants me on Lipitor, but due to
>> the liver side effects I am wary. I have not started taking the drug,
>> but am first trying to lower it through diet and exercise :)
>> 3) History of migraines. Controlled by acute intervention
>> medications. No attack in the past four months, could be related to
>> the drug switching.
>> 4) Osteoarthritis in the knees. Controlled by Daypro with no
>> discernable side effects except upset stomach if I don't take it with
>> food.
>>
>>
>> What do y'all think, is it possible, or just a pipe dream?
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Seems like 3 months off the meds does it. I had a deferral for
depression (should have said dysthymia which was the true diagnosis) and
had to go through the hoops for years. Finally I had a great AME who
said "losing 200 lbs of unneeded weight (refering to my X) sure makes
things better" and wrote such to the FAA. Now I have no problems with
my medical and a husband who flys!

Margy


Bereavement;
Dysthmic; or
Minor Depression
All
Submit all pertinent medical information and clinical status report
If stable, resolved, no associated disturbance of thought, no recurrent
episodes, and; a). psychotropic medication(s) used for less than 6
months and discontinued for at least 3 months - Issue
b). No use of psychotropic medications - Issue

Otherwise - Requires
FAA Decision

[Jose]

> Bereavement;
> Dysthmic; or
> Minor Depression
> All
> Submit all pertinent medical information...

So, you have a death in the family and you need to submit for a waiver
on your medical??

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Margy]

Jose wrote:
>> Bereavement;
>> Dysthmic; or
>> Minor Depression All
>> Submit all pertinent medical information...
>
>
> So, you have a death in the family and you need to submit for a waiver
> on your medical??
>

If you end up needing some sort of medical intervention (like
medications) to get through it, but not a waiver, just submit the paperwork.

Margy
> Jose