Sean Tucker Oracle Airshow

[Chris Colohan]

I went out to the Wings Over Pittsburgh airshow yesterday, and I have
to say that the most impressive performance was the Sean Tucker Oracle
biplane act.

(The Thunderbirds were impressive too, but super-annoying
tackily-patriotic musical soundtrack really detracts from their act.
The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

One stunt Sean Tucker did was intriguing --- he did a slow pass where
the plane was almost vertical and maintaining altitude. The announcer
said his groundspeed was 20mph.

Does the Oracle plane have enough power to hover in place? I got the
impression that a number of the more unusual stunts were only possible
because the plane is practically a helicopter with its power... (This
does not make the stunts any less impressive, I'm just wondering if
one reason this show has so many original stunts is because the plane
has very unusual capabilities...)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[[email protected]]

Chris
Part of the illusion is the angle of the aircraft as viewed by the
crowd. When the winds are right, the pilot can be flying at an
indicated airspeed that appears to be zero on the ground. Wayne Handley
did it with his Raven but he had so much power that it was easy for him
to just "hang" on the prop, then fly out of it.
It is a combination of pilot skills (and Shawn is a superb pilot and
crop duster as was Wayne) and aircraft capability.
I have the utmost respect for their abilities. I'm also a crop duster
pilot and have known Wayne for 20 years but have only met Shawn in
passing.
Rocky

[Jay Honeck]

> Does the Oracle plane have enough power to hover in place?

No, but pointing his nose into the wind, with lots of horsepower and a
radical angle of attack, allows him to do his patented "Harrier Pass" --
always a crowd pleaser. When the head winds are high enough, he can appear
to hover.

I've always wondered what would happen if his big ol' Lycoming O-540 (a
higher horsepower version of the engine in our plane) burped while at full
power. He does that pass pretty low to the ground, and technically he's
well *below* stall speed...

I've watched Tucker's incredible stunts for most of his airshow career, and
have always wondered when (not if) he was going to crash. The skill and
fortitude it has taken for him to remain alive -- while doing what he does
day after day -- is astounding.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>I've watched Tucker's incredible stunts for most of his airshow career, and
>have always wondered when (not if) he was going to crash. The skill and
>fortitude it has taken for him to remain alive -- while doing what he does
>day after day -- is astounding.

A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
home airport.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
It might not be practical, it might not be a good idea, but it could work.
Sort of like Windows.
-- berry

[Jay Honeck]

> A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
> departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
> home airport.

The CRANKSHAFT departed the airplane?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>> A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
>> departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
>> home airport.
>
>The CRANKSHAFT departed the airplane?

That's what the article said.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
If I have pinged farther than others, it is because I routed upon
the T3s of giants.
-- Greg Andrews

[Franklin Newton]

Yes, that's right, no BS, the propeller and the forward part of the
crankshaft departed the airplane.I saw a video of it, with sound, and
believe me there is absolutly no one in the world that has as much "cool" as
Sean D. Tucker, it was just like this happened all the time, every day, and
he made a perfect landing, all while reasurring his student that things
would be fine. There's no better stick than Sean.

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
> >> A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
> >> departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
> >> home airport.
> >
> >The CRANKSHAFT departed the airplane?
>
> That's what the article said.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> If I have pinged farther than others, it is because I routed upon
> the T3s of giants.
> -- Greg Andrews

[Bob Fry]

> The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
> are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".

If you want to see skilled pilots, you'll have to watch a Navy show.

[Gene Seibel]

Thunderbirds have power, Snowbirds have skill, Blue Angels have both.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Flying Machine - http://pad39a.com/gene/
Because we fly, we envy no one.

[John]

Franklin Newton wrote:

> Yes, that's right, no BS, the propeller and the forward part of the
> crankshaft departed the airplane.I saw a video of it, with sound, and
> believe me there is absolutly no one in the world that has as much "cool" as
> Sean D. Tucker, it was just like this happened all the time, every day, and
> he made a perfect landing, all while reasurring his student that things
> would be fine. There's no better stick than Sean.

Fellow airshow ace Mike Goulian (who's also a good pal of Sean) also had an
engine quit in a bad spot a number of years ago. I think it was during practice
in Texas just before one of the aerobatic championships. He came out of it ok,
but it sounded like it took a hell of a lot of skill to do it. Both of those
guys are awesome and every now and then they perform together.

[Big John]

Bob

Only because they fly aircraft painted Blue.

Spent a year on Navy Exchange and found the average Navy Pilot could
not hold a candle to USAF Pilots.

The Navy does have a better PR organization then the USAF though, so
you may be brain washed :o)

Big John
AAC, USAF (Ret)
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:07:16 -0700, Bob Fry >
wrote:

> > The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
> > are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".
>
>If you want to see skilled pilots, you'll have to watch a Navy show.

[Chris Colohan]

"Gene Seibel" > writes:
> Thunderbirds have power, Snowbirds have skill, Blue Angels have both.

Heh. I saw the Blue Angels once in San Francisco. They put on a "show".

The planes went "ROAR"! Then they popped out of the fog, flew
straight overhead, and popped back into the fog. And repeat.

I'm sure it would have been cooler if the entire city wasn't blanketed
in low clouds and fog. (Apparently they decided to just do a bunch of
low passes instead of completely cancelling the show due to weather.)

Being from Toronto, I have seen the Snowbirds many times, and they
impress the hell out of me.

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[W P Dixon]

Oh now Big John,
Sounds like alittle bit of Air Force jealousy there! ;) All I will say is
I have never seen any Air Force pilot land a plane on a carrier at night ;)
The Air Force has good pilots but I would give the edge to Navy and Marine
pilots who can land on a match stick at sea.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Bob
>
> Only because they fly aircraft painted Blue.
>
> Spent a year on Navy Exchange and found the average Navy Pilot could
> not hold a candle to USAF Pilots.
>
> The Navy does have a better PR organization then the USAF though, so
> you may be brain washed :o)
>
> Big John
> AAC, USAF (Ret)
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:07:16 -0700, Bob Fry >
> wrote:
>
>> > The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
>> > are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".
>>
>>If you want to see skilled pilots, you'll have to watch a Navy show.
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Bob
>
> Only because they fly aircraft painted Blue.
>
> Spent a year on Navy Exchange and found the average Navy Pilot could
> not hold a candle to USAF Pilots.
>
> The Navy does have a better PR organization then the USAF though, so
> you may be brain washed :o)
>
> Big John
> AAC, USAF (Ret)
>
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
```````````````````````
>
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:07:16 -0700, Bob Fry >
> wrote:
>
> > > The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
> > > are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".
> >
> >If you want to see skilled pilots, you'll have to watch a Navy show.
>
The only advantage AF pilots have is 'holding their liquor'....sometimes.
:~)

[Blueskies]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message ...
> In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>>I've watched Tucker's incredible stunts for most of his airshow career, and
>>have always wondered when (not if) he was going to crash. The skill and
>>fortitude it has taken for him to remain alive -- while doing what he does
>>day after day -- is astounding.
>
> A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
> departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
> home airport.
>
>

He also broke his neck doing snap rolls (flick rolls) a few years back...

[John]

Big John wrote:

> Bob
>
> Only because they fly aircraft painted Blue.
>
> Spent a year on Navy Exchange and found the average Navy Pilot could
> not hold a candle to USAF Pilots.
>
> The Navy does have a better PR organization then the USAF though, so
> you may be brain washed :o)
>
> Big John
> AAC, USAF (Ret)

Gotta disagree with you Big John. Can't say any remarks about PR types, but, I've known plenty of fine
Air Force pilots, and they certainly have a lot of excellent pilots. But the Navy/Marine guys who land
on moving carriers at night are a special breed and a notch above. A carrier qualified naval aviator
who earns his living coming home to his ship in blue water doesn't play second chair to anyone in my
book. It's always fun to look at a Naval Air Station runway (getting harder and harder to find a pure
naval base these days as multibranch installations are becoming the norm.) and see all of the rubber is
on the same spot on the runway.

(And the Navy boys don't need a follow-me truck in front of them after they turn off the runway :-)

[Big John]

John

I'll add to your post and cover some prior.

Air Force Pilots on 'exchange' with the Navy, in tail hook Squadrons,
'trap' at night just like the Navy jocks do. EVERYONE cuts a lot of
donuts making night 'traps', especially in bad/marginal Wx.

The Navy Squadron I was with (VF-23) had 13 pilots and we killed 4 in
a year (peace time). None in a 'trap'.

In fact, there were no fatalities or accidents coming aboard.

Flying is a dangerous game and units deployed have a higher
probability of accidents than operating on shore even though we killed
3 of the four during work up.

I'm not belittling Navy Jocks (made a lot of friends the year I was
with them) , just not putting them on so high a pedestal. They put
their pants on one leg at a time just like Air Force Jocks :o)

On 'follow me' trucks. Navy uses deck handlers to guide the aircraft
after trapping, to their parking spot on the deck. Different system,
same results.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```



On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:10:11 -0400, John > wrote:

>Big John wrote:
>
>> Bob
>>
>> Only because they fly aircraft painted Blue.
>>
>> Spent a year on Navy Exchange and found the average Navy Pilot could
>> not hold a candle to USAF Pilots.
>>
>> The Navy does have a better PR organization then the USAF though, so
>> you may be brain washed :o)
>>
>> Big John
>> AAC, USAF (Ret)
>
>Gotta disagree with you Big John. Can't say any remarks about PR types, but, I've known plenty of fine
>Air Force pilots, and they certainly have a lot of excellent pilots. But the Navy/Marine guys who land
>on moving carriers at night are a special breed and a notch above. A carrier qualified naval aviator
>who earns his living coming home to his ship in blue water doesn't play second chair to anyone in my
>book. It's always fun to look at a Naval Air Station runway (getting harder and harder to find a pure
>naval base these days as multibranch installations are becoming the norm.) and see all of the rubber is
>on the same spot on the runway.
>
>(And the Navy boys don't need a follow-me truck in front of them after they turn off the runway :-)
>
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "W P Dixon" > said:
> Sounds like alittle bit of Air Force jealousy there! ;) All I will say is
>I have never seen any Air Force pilot land a plane on a carrier at night ;)

And the first war that gets decided by who can land on a carrier at night,
I'll be sure and call on the Navy. Until then, I'll put my money on the
guys who spend their training time learning how to fight, not how to land.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

[W P Dixon]

In that case Paul,
You may need my old services..US Marine..we fought ;) Didn't fly around
except as a Huey door gunner. Every marine is a trained infantryman/rifleman
FIRST!Anybody can fight when they don't see an enemy face to face. I've
never seen nor heard of the USAF launching a frontal assault on anything .
As for the carriers , that is only one skill. The Wings of Gold guys can
hold their own to anyone in air to air. I used to love going to WTI , big
wargame of different branches of service all having it out in simulated
combat. Even the Army would show up! They were all shot down the first
day..Lord it was so funny.
Those bright eyed and always on their toes Army guards..completely let a
bunch of marines take a big wooden crate onto their flight line, which we
attached a huge broom handle and put a cute piece of orange tape at the top
of it. Yep looked like a remote control! We set it in front of one of their
little Hughes jobs! ;) I chuckle everytime I think of it!
I will hand it to Doolittle, he and his band were very skilled Air Corps
fellows to get off the carrier in those bombers...tip my hat to them. I also
think USAF security are some of the best in the world, we probably would not
have gotten our big remote control box on their flight line! But sorry ,
USAF pilots are just slightly below the Navy/Marines. And I was very very
impressed with the Royal Navy's Harrier Pilots. They are
outstanding,...thanks to the HMS Invincible for a great airshow off the
coast of Lebanon in the 80's.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "W P Dixon" > said:
>> Sounds like alittle bit of Air Force jealousy there! ;) All I will say
>> is
>>I have never seen any Air Force pilot land a plane on a carrier at night
>>;)
>
> And the first war that gets decided by who can land on a carrier at night,
> I'll be sure and call on the Navy. Until then, I'll put my money on the
> guys who spend their training time learning how to fight, not how to land.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> "Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
> cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
> could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

[Dudley Henriques]

"Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
...

> The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
> are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

Dudley Henriques

[W P Dixon]

Don't really know what kind of music he expected to hear either Dudley,...I
can see it now The United States Air Force Thunderbirds performing to
Britney Spears!!! ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
>> are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
>
> You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)
>
> Dudley Henriques
>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
>> are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
>
> You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

Dudley,

Doubtful he knows anything about flying other than what he's seen in movies.

[Dudley Henriques]

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Don't really know what kind of music he expected to hear either
> Dudley,...I can see it now The United States Air Force Thunderbirds
> performing to Britney Spears!!! ;)

I don't know about the Thunderbirds, but there was a guy in the base ops
men's room at Nellis one afternoon with a magazine with some pictures of
Spears in it, and from what we were hearing outside the stall (and laughing
like hell while we were in there) ,he was "performing" really well!!! :-)
DH

[Chris Colohan]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> writes:

> "Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
> > are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
>
> You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

That is true. All I know is what I saw in their show. Sadly, their
show aimed purely to entertain, and not to teach me anything.

I am sure that their pilots are extremely skilled. The show was
impressive. What put me off was the musical soundtrack (which really
didn't add much to the show), and the announcer repeatedly pronouncing
that "the Thunderbird pilots are not especially skilled for the Air
Force, what they are doing today is merely doing what every Air Force
pilot is asked to do during their training."

I would have been entertained a lot more if they perhaps told us more
about what they were doing, and relayed the cockpit radios through the
sound system. I wanted to learn about the planes, the pilots flying
them, and what they were doing -- not about how happy the announcer
was to be talking to us today, and what theme song was associated with
each pass!

Sure, I understand that this is a recruiting show. But do you really
expect me to believe that the Air Force picks their _average_ pilots
for their recruiting show team? (Perhaps they do, and save their best
pilots for the important jobs overseas...)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[John Clear]

In article .net>,
Dudley Henriques <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote:
>
>"Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
...
>
>> The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
>> are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
>
>You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

To me, the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels fly an incredible and
amazing routine that is positively boring.

Standard Thunderbirds/Blue Angels routine:

Diamond takes off, disappears into next county.
Solos take off, do a 'dirty roll', disappear into next county.
Diamond does a fly by and disappears into the next county.
Solos show 'tactical surprise' by sneaking up behind the crowd and
giving everyone hearing loss, and then disappear into
the the next county.
Diamond comes by and does a four point roll, disappears into next county.
Solos do an opposing pass, disappear into next county.
etc.

They are great pilots, and what they do is hard, but unfortunately,
it is also never changes, so once you've seen either team, you can
head to the car and watch the show as you beat the traffic out of the
airshow.

The Snowbirds are a much more interesting jet team. Their jets
are slower, so they have to come up with more things to do then
just turning jet fuel into noise. With a nine plane formation,
they can come up with some interesting things, like a Canadian
goose.

The late Ameila Reid had a routine in a Cessna 150 that got to
maybe 500ft in altitude and used an area around 2500ft across.
Not high speed or high horse power, but it was a great routine
since it was right in front of you the entire time.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Dudley Henriques]

"Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> writes:
>
>> "Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
>> > are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
>>
>> You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)
>
> That is true. All I know is what I saw in their show. Sadly, their
> show aimed purely to entertain, and not to teach me anything.
>
> I am sure that their pilots are extremely skilled. The show was
> impressive. What put me off was the musical soundtrack (which really
> didn't add much to the show), and the announcer repeatedly pronouncing
> that "the Thunderbird pilots are not especially skilled for the Air
> Force, what they are doing today is merely doing what every Air Force
> pilot is asked to do during their training."
>
> I would have been entertained a lot more if they perhaps told us more
> about what they were doing, and relayed the cockpit radios through the
> sound system. I wanted to learn about the planes, the pilots flying
> them, and what they were doing -- not about how happy the announcer
> was to be talking to us today, and what theme song was associated with
> each pass!
>
> Sure, I understand that this is a recruiting show. But do you really
> expect me to believe that the Air Force picks their _average_ pilots
> for their recruiting show team? (Perhaps they do, and save their best
> pilots for the important jobs overseas...)

It's true the format for the demonstration has been changed to reflect
current market trends for the venue. Actually, the Thunderbird show is a
living thing that is discussed and adjusted as conditions dictate.
As for the pilots; the announcer was correct. The pilots picked for the
Thunderbirds are taken directly from the pilot inventory of the Air Force.
The ones chosen for consideration are asked to travel with the team as
"selectee candidates". If chosen through this selection process, the
selectee is broken into the Thunderbird regimen very slowly.
It goes without saying that there are indeed requirements from a pilot that
are unique to the Thunderbird mission, but most of these are simply a
refining of abilities already in place and honed to execution within a
closer tolerance.
Basically, the ability to fly with the Thunderbirds is inherent in any
trained fighter pilot with the min quals required by the team. The narrator
was right in stating this to the crowd as he always does.
I agree with you about the music. I don't like it for several reasons mostly
involving the noise level attainable during the performance by the F16 both
in and out of burner and this interface with the crowd.
I have known several airshow demonstration pilots who used music to great
effect however; Scotty McCray coming immediately to mind as a perfect
example.
The mission statement for the Thunderbirds is a complex one, and catering to
known crowd preferences must be considered, The current mission profile for
the team reflects this marketing and as far as I know, will be the team's
mission format for the foreseeable future.
Dudley Henriques

[W P Dixon]

It sounds like he had more fun than Chris at the airshow then!!! ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Don't really know what kind of music he expected to hear either
>> Dudley,...I can see it now The United States Air Force Thunderbirds
>> performing to Britney Spears!!! ;)
>
> I don't know about the Thunderbirds, but there was a guy in the base ops
> men's room at Nellis one afternoon with a magazine with some pictures of
> Spears in it, and from what we were hearing outside the stall (and
> laughing like hell while we were in there) ,he was "performing" really
> well!!! :-)
> DH
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

"John Clear" > wrote in message
...

> The Snowbirds are a much more interesting jet team. Their jets
> are slower, so they have to come up with more things to do then
> just turning jet fuel into noise. With a nine plane formation,
> they can come up with some interesting things, like a Canadian
> goose.

I agree with you strangely enough about the Snows. I did an aerobatic eval
as a guest of the team flying their #10 Tutor at the Reading Show in the US
once and got to spend a lot of time with them. Their mission profile is
different from ours in the states and they have much more latitude in the
"crowd pleasing" department.
Their choice of maneuvers reflect this and is directly attributable to their
founder, Col O. B. Phillip, who laid out the way the team would perform.
I like the Canadian approach.
It was decided long ago that the main thrust of both the Thunderbird and
Blue Angel demonstrations would reflect tactical maneuvering and not the
showmanship type demonstration followed by the Snows. What you are seeing
today in our team's demonstration format reflects about as far into the
showmanship end of things as the military has been willing to go.......so
far anyway :-)))))
Dudley Henriques

[nrp]

The most entertaining in my book was Duane Cole in his clipped wing
T-craft. His maneuvers never involved a violent loss-of-control like
a snap roll etc. He was old and had glasses etc. His act was the
ultimate expression of the possible. We didn't have to listen to any
music either........

[Maule Driver]

Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is a
good way of describing it.

nrp wrote:
> The most entertaining in my book was Duane Cole in his clipped wing
> T-craft. His maneuvers never involved a violent loss-of-control like
> a snap roll etc. He was old and had glasses etc. His act was the
> ultimate expression of the possible. We didn't have to listen to any
> music either........
>

[Doug]

One item. It is one thing to do aerobatics. It is another to do them in
close formation with other planes. It is spoooky.

[Morgans]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote
>
> I don't know about the Thunderbirds, but there was a guy in the base ops
> men's room at Nellis one afternoon with a magazine with some pictures of
> Spears in it, and from what we were hearing outside the stall (and
laughing
> like hell while we were in there) ,he was "performing" really well!!! :-)
> DH


I don't know about this one, Dudley. How did you know it was a Magazine of
Spears?

You were there in the stall? Hmmm. <BFG>
--
Jim in NC

[Rich Lemert]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> "Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
>>are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
>
>
> You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)
>

It's been a few years now, but I remember seeing the Blue Angels and
the Thunderbirds in different air shows. I was impressed by the skill
required by both groups, but I felt that there was a significant
difference in the "showiness" of the two groups. The Thunderbirds were
very precise, sort of like a top band marching in a parade. The Angels
were (IMO) "flashier", like a band doing a football half-time show.

[Matt Barrow]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I agree with you about the music. I don't like it for several reasons
mostly
> involving the noise level attainable during the performance by the F16
both
> in and out of burner and this interface with the crowd.
> I have known several airshow demonstration pilots who used music to great
> effect however; Scotty McCray coming immediately to mind as a perfect
> example.

Think of it as a ballet.

[Matt Barrow]

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
. com...
> Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is a
> good way of describing it.

Second that.

Another would be the old "Flying Perfesser" (?) who did amazing stunts in a
J-3 Cub (haven't seen that one in YEARSSSS.)

OTOH, the TB's and BA's are not only demonstrating flying skills, but
aircraft performance at the other end of the scale.

[Matt Barrow]

"Doug" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> One item. It is one thing to do aerobatics. It is another to do them in
> close formation with other planes. It is spoooky.

Especially at high speed.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote
>>
>> I don't know about the Thunderbirds, but there was a guy in the base ops
>> men's room at Nellis one afternoon with a magazine with some pictures of
>> Spears in it, and from what we were hearing outside the stall (and
> laughing
>> like hell while we were in there) ,he was "performing" really well!!! :-)
>> DH
>
>
> I don't know about this one, Dudley. How did you know it was a Magazine
> of
> Spears?
>
> You were there in the stall? Hmmm. <BFG>
> --
> Jim in NC

Nope. We saw him reading it before he went in.
D

[Morgans]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote

> Nope. We saw him reading it before he went in.
> D
****************************

Jeeze, D, you're no fun! I thought that would at least get a rise out of
you! :-)))

Oh well. I'll have to go heckle Montblack, or Jay. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Rich Lemert" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
> > "Chris Colohan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> >>The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
> >>are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)
> >
> >
> > You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)
> >
>
> It's been a few years now, but I remember seeing the Blue Angels and
> the Thunderbirds in different air shows. I was impressed by the skill
> required by both groups, but I felt that there was a significant
> difference in the "showiness" of the two groups. The Thunderbirds were
> very precise, sort of like a top band marching in a parade. The Angels
> were (IMO) "flashier", like a band doing a football half-time show.

Hmm, from my observations over the past three years (Blues twice, T-birds
twice) I came away with the opposite opinion.

I wonder how much depends on how they "click" on a certain day. A
significant amount, I'll wager.
--
Jim in NC

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-07-12, John Clear > wrote:
> To me, the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels fly an incredible and
> amazing routine that is positively boring.
>
> Standard Thunderbirds/Blue Angels routine:
>
> Diamond takes off, disappears into next county.
<snip next county>

One of the best air force displays I've seen wasn't the Blue Angels, the
Thunderbirds, the Red Arrows or $OTHER_MILITARY_JETS.

It was the Jordanian Air Force display team. They came to our airshow a
couple of years ago.

They fly Extra 300s, IIRC. They remain within the airfield boundaries
and it's easy to see the entire display, and it is flown with great
precision.

The Thunderbirds would impress me much more if they did their big
display using Decathalons.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Matt Whiting]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>
>>>A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
>>>departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
>>>home airport.
>>
>>The CRANKSHAFT departed the airplane?
>
>
> That's what the article said.
>
>

Let me guess, a newspaper article? :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

W P Dixon wrote:

> Oh now Big John,
> Sounds like alittle bit of Air Force jealousy there! ;) All I will say
> is I have never seen any Air Force pilot land a plane on a carrier at
> night ;) The Air Force has good pilots but I would give the edge to Navy
> and Marine pilots who can land on a match stick at sea.

Landing isn't the only skill required of a pilot. All of that practice
landing on carriers likely means that other skills didn't get the same
level of attention afforded Air Force pilots.


Matt

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Matt Whiting > said:
>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>>>>A few years ago he was in an inverted spin when the crankshaft and prop
>>>>departed the aircraft. He recovered and dead-stick landed back on his
>>>>home airport.
>>>The CRANKSHAFT departed the airplane?
>> That's what the article said.
>Let me guess, a newspaper article? :-)

No, AOPA Pilot or Flying.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Considering the number of wheels Microsoft has found reason to invent,
one never ceases to be baffled by the minuscule number whose shape even
vaguely resembles a circle. -- [unknown]

[Jay Honeck]

> Jeeze, D, you're no fun! I thought that would at least get a rise out of
> you! :-)))
>
> Oh well. I'll have to go heckle Montblack, or Jay. ;-)

Jim, you just give up WAY too easy.

How the heck could Dudley have seen a guy on a military base reading a
magazine with Britney Spears in it? She wasn't even BORN YET when Dudley
retired!

Methinks old Dud's pulling your, er, leg...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is a
>> good way of describing it.
>
> Second that.
>
> Another would be the old "Flying Perfesser" (?) who did amazing stunts in
> a
> J-3 Cub (haven't seen that one in YEARSSSS.)
>
> OTOH, the TB's and BA's are not only demonstrating flying skills, but
> aircraft performance at the other end of the scale.

I've seen them all, from Cole to Hoover to Tucker, to the late Bobby
Younkin. They were/are all incredible pilots.

The best I've *ever* seen, however, bar none, was an old guy at the annual
Stearman Fly In (in Galesburg, IL) three years ago. He was old as dirt,
totally unknown (I wish I could remember his name) -- and did things with
that Stearman that had me jumping up and down, first in terror, then in
glee.

I truly thought he was going to hit the ground on any of a dozen maneuvers.
During some maneuvers he actually went BELOW ground level, as he flew in the
drainage ditch alongside the runway! From our ground-level vantage point,
he looked like he had impacted the ground -- a completely unnerving sight.

Best part was that it was all done in super slow-motion (a Stearman has no
other speed), RIGHT in front of us. What an amazing stick.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:J0%Be.157436$_o.40317@attbi_s71...
>> Jeeze, D, you're no fun! I thought that would at least get a rise out of
>> you! :-)))
>>
>> Oh well. I'll have to go heckle Montblack, or Jay. ;-)
>
> Jim, you just give up WAY too easy.
>
> How the heck could Dudley have seen a guy on a military base reading a
> magazine with Britney Spears in it? She wasn't even BORN YET when Dudley
> retired!
>
> Methinks old Dud's pulling your, er, leg...

Actually no. Visited Nellis last year by invitation: then into Vegas for
some fun and games. Incident is true, although I'd like to forget the night
in Vegas. Too expensive!!
Just how the hell old do you people think I am anyway??? :-))
Dudley

[Jay Honeck]

> Just how the hell old do you people think I am anyway??? :-))

Does dirt have a grand-daddy?

;-)

Or, as I am fond of telling my older siblings, "There are islands in the
Pacific younger than you!"

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:XV%Be.157514$_o.46806@attbi_s71...
>> Just how the hell old do you people think I am anyway??? :-))
>
> Does dirt have a grand-daddy?
>
> ;-)
>
> Or, as I am fond of telling my older siblings, "There are islands in the
> Pacific younger than you!"
>
> :-)

You guys better be careful. I'll overtake that Indian scat machine of yours
and shoot it down with my Bleriot!!! :-)
Dudley

[W P Dixon]

HEE HEE,
Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John Paul
Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during on
their senior trip!!! ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:XV%Be.157514$_o.46806@attbi_s71...
>>> Just how the hell old do you people think I am anyway??? :-))
>>
>> Does dirt have a grand-daddy?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Or, as I am fond of telling my older siblings, "There are islands in the
>> Pacific younger than you!"
>>
>> :-)
>
> You guys better be careful. I'll overtake that Indian scat machine of
> yours and shoot it down with my Bleriot!!! :-)
> Dudley
>

[Dudley Henriques]

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> HEE HEE,
> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John Paul
> Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during on
> their senior trip!!! ;)
>
> Patrick
> student SPL
> aircraft structural mech

I gave a talk at a Cub Scout meeting once with several pilots from the Air
Force and Naval fighter and flight test communities.
After talking on aviation for an hour we took questions from the group. The
first question was for me from a little kid way in the back waving his hand
like there was no tomorrow. I called on him, and in front of my wife,
several of the AF and Navy's finest and THEIR wives, he calmly asked me if I
knew Wilber and Orville Wright!!!!
They STILL won't let me live THAT one down!!! :-)))
DH

[John E. Carty]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> HEE HEE,
>> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
>> Paul Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did
>> during on their senior trip!!! ;)
>>
>> Patrick
>> student SPL
>> aircraft structural mech
>
> I gave a talk at a Cub Scout meeting once with several pilots from the Air
> Force and Naval fighter and flight test communities.
> After talking on aviation for an hour we took questions from the group.
> The first question was for me from a little kid way in the back waving his
> hand like there was no tomorrow. I called on him, and in front of my wife,
> several of the AF and Navy's finest and THEIR wives, he calmly asked me if
> I knew Wilber and Orville Wright!!!!
> They STILL won't let me live THAT one down!!! :-)))
> DH
>

So, did you actually know them?

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>HEE HEE,
>>Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John Paul
>>Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during on
>>their senior trip!!! ;)
>>
>>Patrick
>>student SPL
>>aircraft structural mech
>
>
> I gave a talk at a Cub Scout meeting once with several pilots from the Air
> Force and Naval fighter and flight test communities.
> After talking on aviation for an hour we took questions from the group. The
> first question was for me from a little kid way in the back waving his hand
> like there was no tomorrow. I called on him, and in front of my wife,
> several of the AF and Navy's finest and THEIR wives, he calmly asked me if I
> knew Wilber and Orville Wright!!!!
> They STILL won't let me live THAT one down!!! :-)))
> DH

You did tell the truth and admit it though, right? :-)

Matt

[Matt Barrow]

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> HEE HEE,
> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
Paul
> Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during on
> their senior trip!!! ;)

So...what were the Peloponnesian Wars REALLY like?

[Matt Barrow]

"John E. Carty" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> HEE HEE,
> >> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
> >> Paul Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did
> >> during on their senior trip!!! ;)
> >>
> >> Patrick
> >> student SPL
> >> aircraft structural mech
> >
> > I gave a talk at a Cub Scout meeting once with several pilots from the
Air
> > Force and Naval fighter and flight test communities.
> > After talking on aviation for an hour we took questions from the group.
> > The first question was for me from a little kid way in the back waving
his
> > hand like there was no tomorrow. I called on him, and in front of my
wife,
> > several of the AF and Navy's finest and THEIR wives, he calmly asked me
if
> > I knew Wilber and Orville Wright!!!!
> > They STILL won't let me live THAT one down!!! :-)))
> > DH
> >
>
> So, did you actually know them?
>
He wouldn't know that!! Now, the Montgolfier brothers...

[Dudley Henriques]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> HEE HEE,
>> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
> Paul
>> Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during on
>> their senior trip!!! ;)
>
> So...what were the Peloponnesian Wars REALLY like?

Well..........after we took Attica, that idiot Pericles sent his mangy damn
dog over to the hut to bite my ass, but my trusty pet T-Rex "Bonzo" tore
that dog up so bad he lit out like an F100 in full burner...all the way back
to Athens!!!

D

[Dudley Henriques]

"John E. Carty" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> HEE HEE,
>>> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
>>> Paul Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did
>>> during on their senior trip!!! ;)
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>> student SPL
>>> aircraft structural mech
>>
>> I gave a talk at a Cub Scout meeting once with several pilots from the
>> Air Force and Naval fighter and flight test communities.
>> After talking on aviation for an hour we took questions from the group.
>> The first question was for me from a little kid way in the back waving
>> his hand like there was no tomorrow. I called on him, and in front of my
>> wife, several of the AF and Navy's finest and THEIR wives, he calmly
>> asked me if I knew Wilber and Orville Wright!!!!
>> They STILL won't let me live THAT one down!!! :-)))
>> DH
>>
>
> So, did you actually know them?

Let's just say that if you need your bycycle fixed, I might be able to get
you a discount.

DH

[Matt Barrow]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> HEE HEE,
> >> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
> > Paul
> >> Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during
on
> >> their senior trip!!! ;)
> >
> > So...what were the Peloponnesian Wars REALLY like?
>
> Well..........after we took Attica, that idiot Pericles sent his mangy
damn
> dog over to the hut to bite my ass, but my trusty pet T-Rex "Bonzo" tore
> that dog up so bad he lit out like an F100 in full burner...all the way
back
> to Athens!!!
>
> D
Thanks for clarifying that...uh, history.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> HEE HEE,
>> >> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
>> > Paul
>> >> Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during
> on
>> >> their senior trip!!! ;)
>> >
>> > So...what were the Peloponnesian Wars REALLY like?
>>
>> Well..........after we took Attica, that idiot Pericles sent his mangy
> damn
>> dog over to the hut to bite my ass, but my trusty pet T-Rex "Bonzo" tore
>> that dog up so bad he lit out like an F100 in full burner...all the way
> back
>> to Athens!!!
>>
>> D
> Thanks for clarifying that...uh, history.

Hey...no problem...anytime.

There's a great story about James A. Mitchner as a young boy that tells of
him being late for his third grade class one morning. The teacher asks that
he arrive at class the following day with a note from his mother explaining
why he was late.
Michner, ever the one to be innovative, writes his own note and gives it to
the teacher the following morning.
"In the beginning, God created upon the earth a great volcanic eruptive
landscape upon which the very essense of life was just beginning to
evolve............................................ .................................................. ........."
The teacher looked at Mitchner and said,
"James.........is this going to be a LONG story? "

Dudley

[W P Dixon]

HAHA,
That's a good one! My Dad has always been a history nut, so one could
easily use ancient Rome or Greece etc. My old man has one of the best
senses of humor you could have as well. Kind of a Bob Newhart dry wit, make
eveyone in a room laugh and he'd never crack a smile ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> HEE HEE,
>> Don't feel bad Dudley, I tell my Dad he graduated boot camp with John
> Paul
>> Jones,....and my other favorite is asking what he and Moses did during on
>> their senior trip!!! ;)
>
> So...what were the Peloponnesian Wars REALLY like?
>
>

[john smith]

Our local newspaper had an article on the Dayton Airshow.
They described Sean Tucker's plane as having new wings with eight ailerons.
Is this true? Or, is it just the reporter's error?
If true, how does it work?
The Team Oracle website doesn't show the new wing.

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:H8%Be.157451$_o.96603@attbi_s71...
> >> Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is a
> >> good way of describing it.
> >
> > Second that.
> >
> > Another would be the old "Flying Perfesser" (?) who did amazing stunts
in
> > a
> > J-3 Cub (haven't seen that one in YEARSSSS.)
> >
> > OTOH, the TB's and BA's are not only demonstrating flying skills, but
> > aircraft performance at the other end of the scale.
>
> I've seen them all, from Cole to Hoover to Tucker, to the late Bobby
> Younkin. They were/are all incredible pilots.
>
> The best I've *ever* seen, however, bar none, was an old guy at the annual
> Stearman Fly In (in Galesburg, IL) three years ago. He was old as dirt,
> totally unknown (I wish I could remember his name) -- and did things with
> that Stearman that had me jumping up and down, first in terror, then in
> glee.
>
> I truly thought he was going to hit the ground on any of a dozen
maneuvers.
> During some maneuvers he actually went BELOW ground level, as he flew in
the
> drainage ditch alongside the runway! From our ground-level vantage
point,
> he looked like he had impacted the ground -- a completely unnerving sight.
>
> Best part was that it was all done in super slow-motion (a Stearman has no
> other speed), RIGHT in front of us. What an amazing stick.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far beyond
Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with finesse
instead of with horse power.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:H8%Be.157451$_o.96603@attbi_s71...
>> >> Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is a
>> >> good way of describing it.
>> >
>> > Second that.
>> >
>> > Another would be the old "Flying Perfesser" (?) who did amazing stunts
> in
>> > a
>> > J-3 Cub (haven't seen that one in YEARSSSS.)
>> >
>> > OTOH, the TB's and BA's are not only demonstrating flying skills, but
>> > aircraft performance at the other end of the scale.
>>
>> I've seen them all, from Cole to Hoover to Tucker, to the late Bobby
>> Younkin. They were/are all incredible pilots.
>>
>> The best I've *ever* seen, however, bar none, was an old guy at the
>> annual
>> Stearman Fly In (in Galesburg, IL) three years ago. He was old as dirt,
>> totally unknown (I wish I could remember his name) -- and did things with
>> that Stearman that had me jumping up and down, first in terror, then in
>> glee.
>>
>> I truly thought he was going to hit the ground on any of a dozen
> maneuvers.
>> During some maneuvers he actually went BELOW ground level, as he flew in
> the
>> drainage ditch alongside the runway! From our ground-level vantage
> point,
>> he looked like he had impacted the ground -- a completely unnerving
>> sight.
>>
>> Best part was that it was all done in super slow-motion (a Stearman has
>> no
>> other speed), RIGHT in front of us. What an amazing stick.
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>> Iowa City, IA
>> Pathfinder N56993
>> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
> And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
> racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
> beyond
> Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with
> finesse
> instead of with horse power.

This is simply not true and I'm surprised you felt you had to put it this
way. You know; it's possible to make your point about flying a low altitude
energy aerobatic profile as opposed to a power profile without demeaning
some of the finest aerobatic pilots in the world. :-))

I can guarantee you that any of the pilots you mentioned can fly with all
the finesse they need, power or power off!!
A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed to be
handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an energy
management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy equation
between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not that
difficult to fly.

Dudley Henriques

[john smith]

>>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
>>racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
>>beyond Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with
>>finesse instead of with horse power.

> Dudley Henriques wrote:
> This is simply not true and I'm surprised you felt you had to put it this
> way. You know; it's possible to make your point about flying a low altitude
> energy aerobatic profile as opposed to a power profile without demeaning
> some of the finest aerobatic pilots in the world. :-))
> I can guarantee you that any of the pilots you mentioned can fly with all
> the finesse they need, power or power off!!
> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed to be
> handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an energy
> management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
> simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy equation
> between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not that
> difficult to fly.

And then there are the high control forces to contend with on the big
slow airplanes.
Sean Tucker flew crop dusters, so it would seem like old home week for
him to play with a Stearman.

[Dudley Henriques]

"john smith" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>>And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
>>>racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
>>>beyond Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly
>>>with finesse instead of with horse power.
>
>> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> This is simply not true and I'm surprised you felt you had to put it this
>> way. You know; it's possible to make your point about flying a low
>> altitude energy aerobatic profile as opposed to a power profile without
>> demeaning some of the finest aerobatic pilots in the world. :-))
>> I can guarantee you that any of the pilots you mentioned can fly with all
>> the finesse they need, power or power off!!
>> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed to
>> be handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an
>> energy management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly.
>> You simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy
>> equation between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's
>> not that difficult to fly.
>
> And then there are the high control forces to contend with on the big slow
> airplanes.
> Sean Tucker flew crop dusters, so it would seem like old home week for him
> to play with a Stearman.

With the Stearman PT17 with the 220 Continental R670;;;; on a GOOD day, we
could get 2000 RPM out of it. It had the roll rate of a pregnant walrus, but
snapped like a rubber band! :-) It's true that it was a handful. I always
felt like my legs were spread apart like I was riding a horse. It was a
total fun airplane though, and very honest when handled right.
At low altitude doing acro, you would have to be REAL good with this
airplane, but in the right hands; a piece of cake!! :-)
Dudley Henriques

[George Patterson]

Dave Stadt wrote:
>
> And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
> racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far beyond
> Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with finesse
> instead of with horse power.

We saw a performer who did the same thing (maybe the same guy) at the balloon
festival at Solberg maybe 8 years ago. You're right about finesse -- the engine
quits when it gets inverted, so many of the maneuvers really have no room for error.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Jay Honeck]

"john smith" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>>And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
>>>racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
>>>beyond Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly
>>>with finesse instead of with horse power.

John, when you snip posts, please be more careful.

I did NOT write the paragraph, above, even though you have attributed it to
me inadvertently.

Thanks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:%sFCe.184155$nG6.54082@attbi_s22...
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>>>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>>>And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making
>>>>a
>>>>racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
>>>>beyond Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly
>>>>with finesse instead of with horse power.
>
> John, when you snip posts, please be more careful.
>
> I did NOT write the paragraph, above, even though you have attributed it
> to me inadvertently.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

I don't believe you would write anything like this anyway :-)
Dudley

[Dudley Henriques]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:5sFCe.9055$R83.851@trndny08...
> Dave Stadt wrote:
>>
>> And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making a
>> racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
>> beyond
>> Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with
>> finesse
>> instead of with horse power.
>
> We saw a performer who did the same thing (maybe the same guy) at the
> balloon festival at Solberg maybe 8 years ago. You're right about
> finesse -- the engine quits when it gets inverted, so many of the
> maneuvers really have no room for error.

NO maneuver done in the low altitude aerobatic environment, power or no
power, has any room for error.
Dudley Henriques

[Dave Stadt]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
.net...
>
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> > news:H8%Be.157451$_o.96603@attbi_s71...
> >> >> Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is
a
> >> >> good way of describing it.
> >> >
> >> > Second that.
> >> >
> >> > Another would be the old "Flying Perfesser" (?) who did amazing
stunts
> > in
> >> > a
> >> > J-3 Cub (haven't seen that one in YEARSSSS.)
> >> >
> >> > OTOH, the TB's and BA's are not only demonstrating flying skills, but
> >> > aircraft performance at the other end of the scale.
> >>
> >> I've seen them all, from Cole to Hoover to Tucker, to the late Bobby
> >> Younkin. They were/are all incredible pilots.
> >>
> >> The best I've *ever* seen, however, bar none, was an old guy at the
> >> annual
> >> Stearman Fly In (in Galesburg, IL) three years ago. He was old as
dirt,
> >> totally unknown (I wish I could remember his name) -- and did things
with
> >> that Stearman that had me jumping up and down, first in terror, then in
> >> glee.
> >>
> >> I truly thought he was going to hit the ground on any of a dozen
> > maneuvers.
> >> During some maneuvers he actually went BELOW ground level, as he flew
in
> > the
> >> drainage ditch alongside the runway! From our ground-level vantage
> > point,
> >> he looked like he had impacted the ground -- a completely unnerving
> >> sight.
> >>
> >> Best part was that it was all done in super slow-motion (a Stearman has
> >> no
> >> other speed), RIGHT in front of us. What an amazing stick.
> >> --
> >> Jay Honeck
> >> Iowa City, IA
> >> Pathfinder N56993
> >> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> >> "Your Aviation Destination"
> >
> > And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making
a
> > racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
> > beyond
> > Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with
> > finesse
> > instead of with horse power.
>
> This is simply not true and I'm surprised you felt you had to put it this
> way. You know; it's possible to make your point about flying a low
altitude
> energy aerobatic profile as opposed to a power profile without demeaning
> some of the finest aerobatic pilots in the world. :-))
>
> I can guarantee you that any of the pilots you mentioned can fly with all
> the finesse they need, power or power off!!
> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed to
be
> handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an energy
> management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
> simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy equation
> between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not that
> difficult to fly.
>
> Dudley Henriques

We all have our opinions and I don't see any comparison between the two
extremes. One extreme shows piloting skill and the other makes lotsa noise
and impresses the general public. That's what they do for a living which is
fine but it doesn't mean I have to like it or be impressed by it. I'll take
the Aeroshell T6 team, Bob Hoover in the Shrike, a Tcraft or J3 routine any
day over the whiz bang hang it on the prop, make lotsa smoke and noise with
a loud mouth announcer any day.

Have you seen the Stearman routine discussed?

[Dudley Henriques]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> .net...
>>
>> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> > news:H8%Be.157451$_o.96603@attbi_s71...
>> >> >> Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is
> a
>> >> >> good way of describing it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Second that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Another would be the old "Flying Perfesser" (?) who did amazing
> stunts
>> > in
>> >> > a
>> >> > J-3 Cub (haven't seen that one in YEARSSSS.)
>> >> >
>> >> > OTOH, the TB's and BA's are not only demonstrating flying skills,
>> >> > but
>> >> > aircraft performance at the other end of the scale.
>> >>
>> >> I've seen them all, from Cole to Hoover to Tucker, to the late Bobby
>> >> Younkin. They were/are all incredible pilots.
>> >>
>> >> The best I've *ever* seen, however, bar none, was an old guy at the
>> >> annual
>> >> Stearman Fly In (in Galesburg, IL) three years ago. He was old as
> dirt,
>> >> totally unknown (I wish I could remember his name) -- and did things
> with
>> >> that Stearman that had me jumping up and down, first in terror, then
>> >> in
>> >> glee.
>> >>
>> >> I truly thought he was going to hit the ground on any of a dozen
>> > maneuvers.
>> >> During some maneuvers he actually went BELOW ground level, as he flew
> in
>> > the
>> >> drainage ditch alongside the runway! From our ground-level vantage
>> > point,
>> >> he looked like he had impacted the ground -- a completely unnerving
>> >> sight.
>> >>
>> >> Best part was that it was all done in super slow-motion (a Stearman
>> >> has
>> >> no
>> >> other speed), RIGHT in front of us. What an amazing stick.
>> >> --
>> >> Jay Honeck
>> >> Iowa City, IA
>> >> Pathfinder N56993
>> >> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> >> "Your Aviation Destination"
>> >
>> > And he does it with a rock stock 220 hp Stearman. No 450 hp P&W making
> a
>> > racket that wakes the dead. Guys like that have piloting skills far
>> > beyond
>> > Tucker and all the others that would be lost if they had to fly with
>> > finesse
>> > instead of with horse power.
>>
>> This is simply not true and I'm surprised you felt you had to put it this
>> way. You know; it's possible to make your point about flying a low
> altitude
>> energy aerobatic profile as opposed to a power profile without demeaning
>> some of the finest aerobatic pilots in the world. :-))
>>
>> I can guarantee you that any of the pilots you mentioned can fly with all
>> the finesse they need, power or power off!!
>> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed to
> be
>> handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an energy
>> management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
>> simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy
>> equation
>> between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not that
>> difficult to fly.
>>
>> Dudley Henriques
>
> We all have our opinions and I don't see any comparison between the two
> extremes. One extreme shows piloting skill and the other makes lotsa
> noise
> and impresses the general public. That's what they do for a living which
> is
> fine but it doesn't mean I have to like it or be impressed by it. I'll
> take
> the Aeroshell T6 team, Bob Hoover in the Shrike, a Tcraft or J3 routine
> any
> day over the whiz bang hang it on the prop, make lotsa smoke and noise
> with
> a loud mouth announcer any day.
>
> Have you seen the Stearman routine discussed?

I have no problem at all with your "opinion" on what you like and don't
like. Feel free to express what you like. I DO however have a problem with
the personal remarks you made to stress your point.

>> > Tucker and all the others would be lost if they had to fly with
>> > finesse
>> > instead of with horse power.

This states your opinion as fact, and I am simply pointing out that your
facts need some work.
Be this as it may. It's Usenet after all. We don't post to each other all
that often anyway, but I'll take you on when you put out crap like
this.......every time!!!
DH

[Happy Dog]

"Dave Stadt" >
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in

>> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed to
> be
>> handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an energy
>> management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
>> simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy
>> equation
>> between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not that
>> difficult to fly.
>>
>> Dudley Henriques
>
> We all have our opinions and I don't see any comparison between the two
> extremes. One extreme shows piloting skill and the other makes lotsa
> noise
> and impresses the general public.

Wrong. Your opinion is not based on the facts. Do you have any evidence to
back your claim?

> That's what they do for a living which is
> fine but it doesn't mean I have to like it or be impressed by it.

Or understand it. Which you don't. That you dislike it is irrelevant.

moo

[john smith]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> John, when you snip posts, please be more careful.
> I did NOT write the paragraph, above, even though you have attributed it to
> me inadvertently.

Sorry Jay. It should have been attributed to Dave Stadt.

[Dave Stadt]

"Happy Dog" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Dave Stadt" >
> > "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in
>
> >> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed
to
> > be
> >> handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an
energy
> >> management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
> >> simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy
> >> equation
> >> between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not
that
> >> difficult to fly.
> >>
> >> Dudley Henriques
> >
> > We all have our opinions and I don't see any comparison between the two
> > extremes. One extreme shows piloting skill and the other makes lotsa
> > noise
> > and impresses the general public.
>
> Wrong. Your opinion is not based on the facts. Do you have any evidence
to
> back your claim?

I suggest you look up 'opinion' before you spout.

> > That's what they do for a living which is
> > fine but it doesn't mean I have to like it or be impressed by it.
>
> Or understand it. Which you don't. That you dislike it is irrelevant.

It is very relevent to me and others with the same opinion, of which there
are many by the way. Just like your opinion is releveant to you and others
which might agree with you.

[Morgans]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote

> > Or understand it. Which you don't. That you dislike it is irrelevant.
>
> It is very relevent to me and others with the same opinion, of which there
> are many by the way. Just like your opinion is releveant to you and
others
> which might agree with you.

It is irrelevant, from the view that an opinion does not have to be agreed
with, in order to value its right to be expressed.

That is one of the big ways that civilized countries differ from all the
rest.

Agree to disagree. Simple.
--
Jim in NC

[Dudley Henriques]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote
>
>> > Or understand it. Which you don't. That you dislike it is irrelevant.
>>
>> It is very relevent to me and others with the same opinion, of which
>> there
>> are many by the way. Just like your opinion is releveant to you and
> others
>> which might agree with you.
>
> It is irrelevant, from the view that an opinion does not have to be
> agreed
> with, in order to value its right to be expressed.
>
> That is one of the big ways that civilized countries differ from all the
> rest.
>
> Agree to disagree. Simple.
> --
> Jim in NC

Not quite! There are many of those outside the demonstration community who
are free to offer any opinion they like, and do so on many
occasions.Generally it's acceptable to us in the community, but when someone
outside the community feels qualified to make an actual negative assessment
on the general ability of a pilot who flies professionally in the
demonstration community; we in that community feel it's acceptable to point
out that these "opinions" come from the peanut gallery :-)
These people are more than free to spout off about what they like and what
they don't like as they wish, and as is their right to do so. But when
somebody starts saying things like;

>" Tucker and all the others would be lost if they had to fly with
> > finesse
> > instead of with horse power.

well........we kind of take a sort of ,shall we say, "displeasure" with this
kind of remark coming from the "gallery". In fact, a non demonstration type
saying this kind of thing in the wrong place could easily lose the person
saying it a few teeth instead of just a calling out on Usenet!
This guy went one bridge too far with his remarks. He passed "opinion" and
started stating factual judgment for which he has no background and as such
has no right to make unchallenged.
Other than this, he can spout off all he wants to. This guy's opinion on a
flight profile's difficulty or ease isn't the issue here, it's his totally
negative assessment statement on a specific pilot's ability that the poster
couldn't on the best flying day of his life even hope to equal.
In my opinion anyway, I find this offensive and unacceptable; and I've so
stated that here.
Dudley Henriques

[Morgans]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote

>This guy's opinion on a
> flight profile's difficulty or ease isn't the issue here, it's his totally
> negative assessment statement on a specific pilot's ability that the
poster
> couldn't on the best flying day of his life even hope to equal.
> In my opinion anyway, I find this offensive and unacceptable; and I've so
> stated that here.
> Dudley Henriques

Agreed. I must not have done a careful enough read of the issues involved.
I'm not in the demonstration community, and even I considered his opinion
off base, but oh well- what yu gunna du!
--
Jim in NC

[Happy Dog]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
>> > "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in
>>
>> >> A Stearman with a 220 mill hanging on the nose is indeed a heavy steed
> to
>> > be
>> >> handling at low altitude acrobatically, but if flown correctly, an
> energy
>> >> management acro program in a Stearman is not all that hard to fly. You
>> >> simply compensate for the lack of power by trading off the energy
>> >> equation
>> >> between airspeed and g. Generally it's a loose program, but it's not
> that difficult to fly.
>> >>
>> >> Dudley Henriques
>> >
>> > We all have our opinions and I don't see any comparison between the two
>> > extremes. One extreme shows piloting skill and the other makes lotsa
>> > noise and impresses the general public.
>>
>> Wrong. Your opinion is not based on the facts. Do you have any evidence
> to back your claim?
>
> I suggest you look up 'opinion' before you spout.

Get stuffed. My English comprehension is just fine. Your opinion is
incorrect. This has been explained to you by experts in the field you are
attempting to pass judgement on with your opinions. You should be thankful
for the free education you've been receiving here. But you aren't. So
let's see if you're educable. Learn what's involved in the low level pass
Tucker does that looks a bit like a knife edge. Assess the diffficulty and
get back to us.
>
>> > That's what they do for a living which is
>> > fine but it doesn't mean I have to like it or be impressed by it.
>>
>> Or understand it. Which you don't. That you dislike it is irrelevant.
>
> It is very relevent to me

Nobody cares. Get used to it.

> and others with the same opinion, of which there
> are many by the way.

No paucity of uneducated opinions.

moo

[Dudley Henriques]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote
>
>>This guy's opinion on a
>> flight profile's difficulty or ease isn't the issue here, it's his
>> totally
>> negative assessment statement on a specific pilot's ability that the
> poster
>> couldn't on the best flying day of his life even hope to equal.
>> In my opinion anyway, I find this offensive and unacceptable; and I've so
>> stated that here.
>> Dudley Henriques
>
> Agreed. I must not have done a careful enough read of the issues
> involved.
> I'm not in the demonstration community, and even I considered his opinion
> off base, but oh well- what yu gunna du!
> --
> Jim in NC

Most of the people who comment on the shows and the pilots are good folks.
This goes as well for the pilots outside the community ....actually
especially the pilots. Most are content to allow us the fact if nothing else
we operate in an extremely dangerous environment that requires specific
skills and capabilities.
Then there are the other
people............................................ ..... :-)
Dudley

[Matt Barrow]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
>
> Most of the people who comment on the shows and the pilots are good folks.
> This goes as well for the pilots outside the community ....actually
> especially the pilots. Most are content to allow us the fact if nothing
else
> we operate in an extremely dangerous environment that requires specific
> skills and capabilities.

Like race car drivers. They do much the same things that every day people do
but under very different conditions and situations.

> Then there are the other
> people............................................ ..... :-)

....with superficial and fragile egos...

Thanks, Dudley!