Re: CFII instructor as passenger (FAA)

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

wrote:
> The question, in the context of FAA IR training, is whether
>
> a) I (assume I am legally PIC in the airspace in question) can carry a
> CFII as a mere passenger,


You can carry whomever you like as a passenger.



> b) can the instructor take over as an instructor at an agreed point in
> the flight


Yes.


> c) can the instructor revert to being a passenger at an agreed point
> after the training took place


Yes. Instruction officially begins whenever the two of you agree it begins. It
ends when you agree it ends. There is no preset being/end point dictated by
regs. Also, since you brought it up, I don't think this is really all that rare
an occurance.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[[email protected]]

Yes. There are CFIs that instruct today who have lost their medical. The
limitation is that the "student" must be currently qualified to act as PIC
for the phase of flight in which the CFI will provide instruction.

wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I can't find a reference for this in the FAR/AIM.
>
> The question, in the context of FAA IR training, is whether
>
> a) I (assume I am legally PIC in the airspace in question) can carry a
> CFII as a mere passenger, and
>
> b) can the instructor take over as an instructor at an agreed point in
> the flight
>
> c) can the instructor revert to being a passenger at an agreed point
> after the training took place
>
> I am sure the answer to a) must be yes - it would be silly otherwise.
> It's b) and c) I am not sure about.
>
> Any response would be very interesting - with references please if
> anyone feels this is illegal.

[Steve Foley]

I once had a ten-second instruction. Nobody logged it.

I was flying around in circles, and the airport owner (CFI) asked if I could
fly him 4.2 miles to another airport. I said sure.

As we were flying over, I thought to myself that this was the first time I
had flown with an instructor, but wasn't receiving instruction.

As I was on the downwind, about to turn base, Gregg reached over and pulled
the power. He said "You just lost your engine - where are you going to
land".

I replied "In those trees - just short of the runway", as I pushed the power
back in.




> wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> I can't find a reference for this in the FAR/AIM.
>
> The question, in the context of FAA IR training, is whether
>
> a) I (assume I am legally PIC in the airspace in question) can carry a
> CFII as a mere passenger, and
>
> b) can the instructor take over as an instructor at an agreed point in
> the flight
>
> c) can the instructor revert to being a passenger at an agreed point
> after the training took place
>
> I am sure the answer to a) must be yes - it would be silly otherwise.
> It's b) and c) I am not sure about.
>
> Any response would be very interesting - with references please if
> anyone feels this is illegal.
>

[Mark Hansen]

On 7/12/2005 07:57, Steve Foley wrote:

> I once had a ten-second instruction. Nobody logged it.
>
> I was flying around in circles, and the airport owner (CFI) asked if I could
> fly him 4.2 miles to another airport. I said sure.
>
> As we were flying over, I thought to myself that this was the first time I
> had flown with an instructor, but wasn't receiving instruction.
>
> As I was on the downwind, about to turn base, Gregg reached over and pulled
> the power. He said "You just lost your engine - where are you going to
> land".
>
> I replied "In those trees - just short of the runway", as I pushed the power
> back in.

You should have added "But I'll probably be able to make the runway
once I lighten the load (by pushing him out the door) ;-)

[Denny]

I replied "In those trees - just short of the runway", as I pushed the
power
back in.
************************************************** ************************

My kind of pilot!

denny

[Robert M. Gary]

The CFI can be giving instruction at one point and not at another
point. I assume you will remain PIC. Its not clear what you want to
accomplish though.
On a practical note, if something goes wrong in that flight, the FAA is
going to come after the CFII regardless of who is PIC.

-Robert, CFI

[Doug]

OK. I'm not with the FAA, nor do I have references for all of these
questions, but I'm going to throw my answers out anyway. (I am a CFI,
commercial land and sea rated pilot who owns an amphibian).

Can a CFII give instrument instruction in a tailwheel aircraft if the
CFII does not have a tailwheel rating?
Answer is yes. And he can even log it. But you can't go on a filed IFR
cross country flight unless one of you has an IFR rating.

Can a CFI give instruction in a Seaplane if he is not Seaplane rated?
Answer, I THINK, is yes, so long as the instruction does not involve
landing on water.
(This one is weirder than you might first think, because an Seaplane
can be considered in a seperate Class seperate from land plane).

Can a pilot who has a complex rating be PIC in an Amphibian if he does
not have a Seaplane rating. (Almost all amphibians are complex).
Yes, so long as he does not land on water.

Can a pilot who owns an amphibian that is no longer capable of landing
on the water get a flight review in the amphibian?
Yes, but it will not include privileges of flight in on water.

Is a pilot who flies an amphibian current for carrying passengers if he
does three landings in his amphibian on a ground runway?
Yes, but he is not current for carrying passengers if it involves water
landings.

Can an CFI instruct without a medical?
Yes, but he cannot be PIC.

Not SURE all my answers are correct and not sure anyone really knows
the answers, but they should be food for thought.

[Robert M. Gary]

I CFI who is not commercial sea rated cannot give any instruction of
any kind in a sea plane. If you took that all the way, you could argue
that an airplane CFII could give instrument instruction in a helicopter
even though he's never been in one before.

-Robert, CFI (land and sea)

[Bob Moore]

"Doug" wrote

> Can a pilot who owns an amphibian that is no longer capable of landing
> on the water get a flight review in the amphibian?
> Yes, but it will not include privileges of flight in on water.

I think that you missed this one Doug.

(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no
person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the
beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot
acts as pilot in command, that person has—

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot
is rated by an authorized instructor and.....

One Flight Review is good for all aircraft for which the pilot is rated.
There is no requirement for different Classes.
The Flight Review can actually be accomplished in an approved simulator
under certain conditions.
There is a separate requirement for a PIC check for aircraft certificated
for more than one pilot.

Bob Moore

[Doug]

Yes, but the question was could he get his flight review in his
amphibian if the amphibian was incapable of landing on the water. I see
your point though. I guess he could get the flight reveiw in a land
airplane and then still have privileges on his Seaplane rating with no
seaplane demonstration.

As for the instructor giving instruction in a Seaplane, I am not sure
but I think there is an exception for this one. If so it should be in
the FARs.

[Judah]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in
news:GTQAe.3004$1%4.2996@trndny02:

> I once had a ten-second instruction. Nobody logged it.
>
> I was flying around in circles, and the airport owner (CFI) asked if I
> could fly him 4.2 miles to another airport. I said sure.
>
> As we were flying over, I thought to myself that this was the first
> time I had flown with an instructor, but wasn't receiving instruction.
>
> As I was on the downwind, about to turn base, Gregg reached over and
> pulled the power. He said "You just lost your engine - where are you
> going to land".
>
> I replied "In those trees - just short of the runway", as I pushed the
> power back in.
>


It took you 10 seconds to teach him the laws of physics?

[Ron Natalie]

Doug wrote:

> Can a CFII give instrument instruction in a tailwheel aircraft if the
> CFII does not have a tailwheel rating?

There's no such thing as a tailwheel rating.

> Answer is yes. And he can even log it. But you can't go on a filed IFR
> cross country flight unless one of you has an IFR rating.

The answer is only a qualified yes. Yes, if it's a single engine.
No, if it's a twin.


> Can a pilot who has a complex rating be PIC in an Amphibian if he does
> not have a Seaplane rating. (Almost all amphibians are complex).
> Yes, so long as he does not land on water.

There's no such thing as a complex rating.