RTB

[Jim]

Returned home late last night from a trip to the Dayton airshow. One
seemingly minor incident raised my curiousity.

A two plane detachment of F-117s were sent to the show. As is quite
typical one aircraft departed intending to provide flybys at other
regional shows before returning to Dayton for a final flyby and landing.

Shortly after departing however he experienced a loss of one engine.
Aircraft recovered at Dayton. I wonder why he would RTB to a civilian
field when WRI-PAT is so near. With this aircraft considered to be a
high value asset wouldn't the increased security of a major military
airfield have made more sense?

So a question for all is what criteria would have been applied here?
Ed, being USAF do you have any comments. Should note here that
monitoring the frequencies there were no other systems failures mentioned.






ACC USN ret.
NKX, BIKF, NAB, CV-63, NIR
67-69 69-71 71-74 77-80 80-85
&
74-77

Founder: RAMN (rec.aviation.military.naval)

[Yeff]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:00:59 -0400, Jim wrote:

> Shortly after departing however he experienced a loss of one engine.
> Aircraft recovered at Dayton. I wonder why he would RTB to a civilian
> field when WRI-PAT is so near.

I'm betting he returned to the airfield that already had personnel trained
to generate and recover F-117s there.

--

-Jeff B. (who's only guessing)
zoomie at fastmail fm

[Erik \Falcon\ Glascoe]

Hey Jim,

I had so so time on Saturday. With the lack of flying and the weather, it
was medicore. I thought the Thunderbirds did ok, they were kinda sloppy on
few demos though.

I had a cool experince though. I shook a hand of a Tuskegee Airman. I also
thanked him for his service. I couldn't talk to him though, their tent was
full of people that wanted to talk to them.

It was cool though. Did the weather improved any on Sunday Jim?

Erik

[Ed Rasimus]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:19:31 GMT, Yeff > wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:00:59 -0400, Jim wrote:
>
>> Shortly after departing however he experienced a loss of one engine.
>> Aircraft recovered at Dayton. I wonder why he would RTB to a civilian
>> field when WRI-PAT is so near.
>
>I'm betting he returned to the airfield that already had personnel trained
>to generate and recover F-117s there.

Sounds like the answer to me. Limited number special purpose aircraft
have some peculiar support requirements and might need some specially
trained support personnel.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Ed Rasimus]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:11:47 GMT, "Erik \"Falcon\" Glascoe"
> wrote:

>Hey Jim,
>
>I had so so time on Saturday. With the lack of flying and the weather, it
>was medicore. I thought the Thunderbirds did ok, they were kinda sloppy on
>few demos though.
>
>I had a cool experince though. I shook a hand of a Tuskegee Airman. I also
>thanked him for his service. I couldn't talk to him though, their tent was
>full of people that wanted to talk to them.
>
>It was cool though. Did the weather improved any on Sunday Jim?
>
>Erik
>

While I was serving on the Board of Trustees of the Pikes Peak Library
District, I often had occasion to meet Lt. Col (ret) Clarence Shivers,
one of the Tuskegee Airmen. He and his wife, Peggy were great
supporters of the library and quite successful in business as well.
They established a foundation to support the library and the arts in
the Colorado Springs area. Great folks who give back to their
community in a big way.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Jim]

Ed Rasimus wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:19:31 GMT, Yeff > wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:00:59 -0400, Jim wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Shortly after departing however he experienced a loss of one engine.
>>>Aircraft recovered at Dayton. I wonder why he would RTB to a civilian
>>>field when WRI-PAT is so near.
>>
>>I'm betting he returned to the airfield that already had personnel trained
>>to generate and recover F-117s there.
>
>
> Sounds like the answer to me. Limited number special purpose aircraft
> have some peculiar support requirements and might need some specially
> trained support personnel.
>
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

True but those people were but 10-20 miles away. Working at an AF
hangar with AF tools and support would seem to me the wiser option.
After all if an engine change out were required would that not be easier
all around at an AF facility compared to a borrowed civilian one?

[Jim]

Erik "Falcon" Glascoe wrote:
> Hey Jim,
>
> I had so so time on Saturday. With the lack of flying and the weather, it
> was medicore. I thought the Thunderbirds did ok, they were kinda sloppy on
> few demos though.
>
> I had a cool experince though. I shook a hand of a Tuskegee Airman. I also
> thanked him for his service. I couldn't talk to him though, their tent was
> full of people that wanted to talk to them.
>
> It was cool though. Did the weather improved any on Sunday Jim?
>
> Erik
>

I left before the T-Birds started. Low show isn't my fort'e.
Considering the iffy forecast for Sunday I opted to drive home. 708
miles in 14 hours not too shabby, eh? Oh yeah, two food and fuel stops.

[Jim Carriere]

Jim wrote:
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:19:31 GMT, Yeff > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:00:59 -0400, Jim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Shortly after departing however he experienced a loss of one engine.
>>>> Aircraft recovered at Dayton. I wonder why he would RTB to a
>>>> civilian field when WRI-PAT is so near.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm betting he returned to the airfield that already had personnel
>>> trained
>>> to generate and recover F-117s there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like the answer to me. Limited number special purpose aircraft
>> have some peculiar support requirements and might need some specially
>> trained support personnel.
>>
>>
>> Ed Rasimus
>> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
>> "When Thunder Rolled"
>> www.thunderchief.org
>> www.thundertales.blogspot.com
>
>
> True but those people were but 10-20 miles away. Working at an AF
> hangar with AF tools and support would seem to me the wiser option.
> After all if an engine change out were required would that not be easier
> all around at an AF facility compared to a borrowed civilian one?

I bet his field selection was at least partly based on whatever
caused the engine failure (oil related, fuel related, fod, other,
unknown?), what was in between him and each facility (ie, populated
areas), historical experience of F-117 engine failures, he was
already at Dayton anyway so he stuck with a workable "plan A,"
command climate (written directives and unwritten preferences of the
squadron CO and chain of command)... etc.

PIC decision making stuff - I know, pretty general answer (I'm not
trying to sound sarcastic).

[Bill Kambic]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:00:59 -0400, Jim > wrote:

>So a question for all is what criteria would have been applied here?
>Ed, being USAF do you have any comments. Should note here that
>monitoring the frequencies there were no other systems failures mentioned.

In my experience you are better off to put a twin with a failure on
the ground ASAP. Afterall, you have just lost 50% of your power and
100% of your "J" factor. This is not the time to "fool around."

If you are in a many-motor (P-3, KC-135, etc.) then maybe you can
"fudge" a short flight to a facility with better maintenance. The P-3
NATOPS specifically addresses "three engine ferry" flights (I don't
know about Air Force policy and proceedure). But I don't know of
anyone who ever did one who was really comfortable. Sure, it might be
a "pain in the butt" to mount up a maintenance det, but I'd rather see
that than a "smoking hole."

Bill Kambic

Most of his time and 100% of his engine failures in S-2, P-3, and
T-44.

[Mike Kanze]

Might have been a simple safety plus prudence-driven decision.

Perhaps DAY was the best field available versus schlepping a sick bird
across the northern Dayton suburbs to FFO. With as high a profile as the
Dayton airshow is, you are smart not to risk a prang on the way over all the
playgrounds and residences. This is like choosing to fly a lonely route when
with hung ordnance. Suburbanites mourn their dead, seek compensation for
their losses, and vote. Fishes in the sea and lizards in the desert do not.

Support availability is nice, but if my choice is avoiding a high-visibility
mishap by taking the nearest capable runway versus landing at a field with
all the whistles and bells, I'll let the techs and the yellow gear follow me
wherever I go.
--
Mike Kanze

"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be
tolerated only in race horses and women."

- Lord Kelvin


"Jim" > wrote in message ...
> Returned home late last night from a trip to the Dayton airshow. One
> seemingly minor incident raised my curiousity.
>
> A two plane detachment of F-117s were sent to the show. As is quite
> typical one aircraft departed intending to provide flybys at other
> regional shows before returning to Dayton for a final flyby and landing.
>
> Shortly after departing however he experienced a loss of one engine.
> Aircraft recovered at Dayton. I wonder why he would RTB to a civilian
> field when WRI-PAT is so near. With this aircraft considered to be a high
> value asset wouldn't the increased security of a major military airfield
> have made more sense?
>
> So a question for all is what criteria would have been applied here? Ed,
> being USAF do you have any comments. Should note here that monitoring the
> frequencies there were no other systems failures mentioned.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ACC USN ret.
> NKX, BIKF, NAB, CV-63, NIR
> 67-69 69-71 71-74 77-80 80-85
> &
> 74-77
>
> Founder: RAMN (rec.aviation.military.naval)

[Erik \Falcon\ Glascoe]

I lived in Englewood Colorado for 3 years, loved it, hated the weather. I
heard the times over there now are difficult. Is that true? With the
housing and such.

Forgive me for a dumb question, but, are you a "Thud" Pilot?

Erik

[Erik \Falcon\ Glascoe]

> I left before the T-Birds started. Low show isn't my fort'e.
> Considering the iffy forecast for Sunday I opted to drive home. 708
> miles in 14 hours not too shabby, eh? Oh yeah, two food and fuel
> stops.
>

Not too shabby my friend :). Did you see "Glacier Girl" while you was
there? God she is just a beautiful P-38. They had a Bearcat too. Thats one
huge, slick machine. Never seen one in person and up close before. The F-18
flight demo was pretty slick with the vapor coming off the fuseluse.

Bummer bout the 22 being no show. Someday I'll see her fly :).

Erik

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
. 63.158...
>I lived in Englewood Colorado for 3 years, loved it, hated the weather. I
> heard the times over there now are difficult. Is that true? With the
> housing and such.
>
What was wrong with the weather?

Glenn D.

[Ed Rasimus]

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:39:07 GMT, "Erik \"Falcon\" Glascoe"
> wrote:

>I lived in Englewood Colorado for 3 years, loved it, hated the weather. I
>heard the times over there now are difficult. Is that true? With the
>housing and such.

Dunno what you mean. Denver is in a growth cycle. Ditto for Colorado
Springs. Anti-tax mentality means education, highways and
state-provided public services are in marginal supply.

The weather on the "Front Range" is pretty darn good. Warm but low
humidity in the summer, cool with low humidity in the winter. Not much
snow and often 55-60 degrees in January/February.
>
>Forgive me for a dumb question, but, are you a "Thud" Pilot?

That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Gord Beaman]

Ed Rasimus > wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:39:07 GMT, "Erik \"Falcon\" Glascoe"
> wrote:
>
snip
>>Forgive me for a dumb question, but, are you a "Thud" Pilot?
>
>That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.
>
>Ed Rasimus

There now Erik, consider yourself 'put in your place'.

--
-Gord

[Ed Rasimus]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:22:43 GMT, Gord Beaman >
wrote:

>Ed Rasimus > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:39:07 GMT, "Erik \"Falcon\" Glascoe"
> wrote:
>>
> snip
>>>Forgive me for a dumb question, but, are you a "Thud" Pilot?
>>
>>That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.
>>
>>Ed Rasimus
>
>There now Erik, consider yourself 'put in your place'.

There's a generation of F-105 pilots that doesn't use the nickname.
The term Thud came into general use around '67 although there are
instances of derogatory use earlier. It was accepted by most of the
"retraining" course drivers of the airplane.

Wonder why Erik never took the necessary second or two to click on the
link in my sig? Saves a lot of questions.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Erik \Falcon\ Glascoe]

> What was wrong with the weather?
>
> Glenn D.
>
>

I moved there from Ohio in 86. Never experinced snow like in Colorado in
Ohio. After the blizzard I'll see sunny skies on the next day. Weather in
Colorado was weird for this Buckeye. Especially when I was going to high
school there, I was like "They want me to go thru that in my electric
wheelchair??" I still dunno how I went thru those winter storms without
being stuck. Guess I was lucky.

Erik

[Erik \Falcon\ Glascoe]

Ed Rasimus > wrote in
:
> Dunno what you mean. Denver is in a growth cycle. Ditto for Colorado
> Springs. Anti-tax mentality means education, highways and
> state-provided public services are in marginal supply.

My mother who travels for business over there sometimes said the housing
there was very expensive and the houses were tighty together, no yards or
nothing. Guess she saw a different area.

> The weather on the "Front Range" is pretty darn good. Warm but low
> humidity in the summer, cool with low humidity in the winter. Not much
> snow and often 55-60 degrees in January/February.

Yeah that is the norm for Colorado. I was talking bout the snow blizzards
and it'll be sunny on the next day. Weird.


> That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.

Sorry to offend you sir. Most Thunderchief pilots called the F-105 the
"Thud".

Erik

[Tex Houston]

"Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
. 63.158...
>
>> That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.
>
> Sorry to offend you sir. Most Thunderchief pilots called the F-105 the
> "Thud".
>
> Erik

Most??? Just how many F-105 pilots do you know? There were so many
nicknames for the F-105 I don't believe there was a consensus.

Tex Houston
F-105 Controller in a former life

[Eric Joiner]

Tex Houston wrote:
> "Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
> . 63.158...
>
>>>That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.
>>
>>Sorry to offend you sir. Most Thunderchief pilots called the F-105 the
>>"Thud".
>>
>>Erik
>
>
> Most??? Just how many F-105 pilots do you know? There were so many
> nicknames for the F-105 I don't believe there was a consensus.
>
> Tex Houston
> F-105 Controller in a former life
>
>
>

Ahem...you guys might back up a little.

the guy probably has read books that call the airplane that.
I personally dont know any F-105 pilots. However i respect hell out
of the ones I have read about and may meet virtually. It is your
opportunity to teach those of us too young to know you in your prime
as to how you wish to be addressed and the lineage and history of
your fine airplane and the courageous exploits of those who flew
her. We know you by books and your written word. If some appear
ignorant...teach...dont bite.

Best regards,

Eric Joiner

[Gord Beaman]

Eric Joiner > wrote:
smip

> It is your
>opportunity to teach those of us too young to know you in your prime
>as to how you wish to be addressed and the lineage and history of
>your fine airplane and the courageous exploits of those who flew
>her. We know you by books and your written word. If some appear
>ignorant...teach...dont bite.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Eric Joiner

Eric, this is a lost cause...I tried your tact on him a couple
years ago and got **** for my trouble. He's so full of himself
that you'll only get sht and abuse

[Vox Populi]

"Tex Houston" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
> . 63.158...
>>
>>> That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.
>>
>> Sorry to offend you sir. Most Thunderchief pilots called the F-105 the
>> "Thud".
>>
>> Erik
>
> Most??? Just how many F-105 pilots do you know? There were so many
> nicknames for the F-105 I don't believe there was a consensus.
>
> Tex Houston
> F-105 Controller in a former life

My friend, Col. Joe O'neill, called it a "105".
>
>
>

[Ed Rasimus]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:36:31 -0400, Eric Joiner
> wrote:

>Tex Houston wrote:
>> "Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
>> . 63.158...
>>
>>>>That would be F-105 Thunderchief pilot to you, sir.
>>>
>>>Sorry to offend you sir. Most Thunderchief pilots called the F-105 the
>>>"Thud".
>>>
>>>Erik
>>
>>
>> Most??? Just how many F-105 pilots do you know? There were so many
>> nicknames for the F-105 I don't believe there was a consensus.
>>
>> Tex Houston
>> F-105 Controller in a former life
>>
>>
>>
>
>Ahem...you guys might back up a little.
>
>the guy probably has read books that call the airplane that.
>I personally dont know any F-105 pilots. However i respect hell out
>of the ones I have read about and may meet virtually. It is your
>opportunity to teach those of us too young to know you in your prime
>as to how you wish to be addressed and the lineage and history of
>your fine airplane and the courageous exploits of those who flew
>her. We know you by books and your written word. If some appear
>ignorant...teach...dont bite.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Eric Joiner

Eric, I was teasing you. The airplane has been called "Thud" for a
long time. It was initially a derogatory term because of the poor
record in achieving initial operational status. It was not used by
those who flew it (with a couple of exceptions) until late '66.

Since then it has become a term of affection and respect for the
airplane. Most folks use it as an honorific not an insult.

I don't use the term and if you look through the text of "When Thunder
Rolled" you will find "Thud" only once in reference to Thud Ridge, the
mountain ridge that points from the NW directly to Hanoi.

In Palace Cobra, which is scheduled for release sometime after the
first of the year '06, the term occurs several times.

And, you can tell Tex (who I've known for many years) that you now
know at least one F-105 pilot.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
. 63.158...
>> What was wrong with the weather?
>
> I moved there from Ohio in 86. Never experinced snow like in Colorado in
> Ohio. After the blizzard I'll see sunny skies on the next day.

Heh. I have a south facing driveway. Unless we get more than four or five
inches it doesn't even pay to shovel as it will all melt by the next day.

> Weather in
> Colorado was weird for this Buckeye. Especially when I was going to high
> school there, I was like "They want me to go thru that in my electric
> wheelchair??"

Denver snow was deeper than Ohio snow?


> I still dunno how I went thru those winter storms without
> being stuck. Guess I was lucky.
>
I reckon so.

Glenn D.

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
>
> Eric, I was teasing you. The airplane has been called "Thud" for a
> long time. It was initially a derogatory term because of the poor
> record in achieving initial operational status. It was not used by
> those who flew it (with a couple of exceptions) until late '66.
>
> Since then it has become a term of affection and respect for the
> airplane. Most folks use it as an honorific not an insult.

Slight divergence - just outside of Omaha there is an F-105 on a pedestal
next to the interstate, tail numbers JJ 069. Is there a site where I can
find out the history of this a/c?

Glenn D.

[Tex Houston]

"Glenn Dowdy" > wrote in message
...
> Slight divergence - just outside of Omaha there is an F-105 on a pedestal
> next to the interstate, tail numbers JJ 069. Is there a site where I can
> find out the history of this a/c?
>
> Glenn D.

Close to Ashland Nebraska actually. Some of the story can be found at
http://www.strategicairandspace.com/restoration/restoration_F-105.html . It
is just a billboard but fighter aircraft used by SAC have examples in the
museum. Absolutely a first class facility.

Regards,

Tex Houston

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Tex Houston" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Glenn Dowdy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Slight divergence - just outside of Omaha there is an F-105 on a pedestal
>> next to the interstate, tail numbers JJ 069. Is there a site where I can
>> find out the history of this a/c?
>>
>> Glenn D.
>
> Close to Ashland Nebraska actually. Some of the story can be found at
> http://www.strategicairandspace.com/restoration/restoration_F-105.html .
> It is just a billboard but fighter aircraft used by SAC have examples in
> the museum. Absolutely a first class facility.
>
Thanks. I wished that the two young'ens were old enough to make stopping to
visit viable. Maybe in a couple of years.

Glenn D.

[Ed Rasimus]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:34:57 GMT, "Glenn Dowdy"
> wrote:

>
>"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Eric, I was teasing you. The airplane has been called "Thud" for a
>> long time. It was initially a derogatory term because of the poor
>> record in achieving initial operational status. It was not used by
>> those who flew it (with a couple of exceptions) until late '66.
>>
>> Since then it has become a term of affection and respect for the
>> airplane. Most folks use it as an honorific not an insult.
>
>Slight divergence - just outside of Omaha there is an F-105 on a pedestal
>next to the interstate, tail numbers JJ 069. Is there a site where I can
>find out the history of this a/c?
>
>Glenn D.
>
I could only find one tail number with 069--It was F-105D 61-0069. The
aircraft has one MiG-17 kill on June 3, 1967, flown by Larry D.
Wiggins.

The excellent reference book, "Roll Call: Thud" says "she was once
known as 'Pussy Galore' and later 'Cherry Girl' while serving with the
355th TFW. She is preserved at the San Bernardino Air Museum"

The tail code JJ indicates the 34th TFS, which was part of the 388 TFW
at Korat. (The 355th was at Tahkli.)

So, the airplane must have been moved and a bit of artistic license
applied to the painting--or there was a period in which the airplane
was also in the 34th.

Does it have its red star on the side?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Jim]

I grew up in Northern Ohio and left to join the Navy in 1967. For the last
30 years (I'm a tad older now) I have lived in Colorado at 8750 feet and
10,000 feet (without oxygen) and would take a Colorado winter...or summer,
anytime over an Ohio one. I've lived through the big blizzard in the mid
80's and had a six footer a couple years ago and still wouldn't go back to
Ohio, although six feet of snow in a day and a half is not something you
want to do often. He's right about the change. Denver started the weekend at
104, or something, and was in the 60's today.

--
Jim
Check current Colorado Weather at:
http://www.southparkwx.com
http://www.coniferwx.com
"Glenn Dowdy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Erik "Falcon" Glascoe" > wrote in message
> . 63.158...
>>> What was wrong with the weather?
>>
>> I moved there from Ohio in 86. Never experinced snow like in Colorado in
>> Ohio. After the blizzard I'll see sunny skies on the next day.
>
> Heh. I have a south facing driveway. Unless we get more than four or five
> inches it doesn't even pay to shovel as it will all melt by the next day.
>
>> Weather in
>> Colorado was weird for this Buckeye. Especially when I was going to high
>> school there, I was like "They want me to go thru that in my electric
>> wheelchair??"
>
> Denver snow was deeper than Ohio snow?
>
>
>> I still dunno how I went thru those winter storms without
>> being stuck. Guess I was lucky.
>>
> I reckon so.
>
> Glenn D.
>

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...

>
> So, the airplane must have been moved and a bit of artistic license
> applied to the painting--or there was a period in which the airplane
> was also in the 34th.
>
> Does it have its red star on the side?
>
Not visible at highway speeds, at least to me, I'm afraid. And I'm in no
hurry to go back to Nebraska either, especially now that CO has cooled down.

Glenn D.

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> He's right about the change. Denver started the weekend at 104, or
> something, and was in the 60's today.
>
I"m in Fort Collins, and we got the same change. Thankfully.

Glenn D.

[B-Rad]

being the lowly army aviation guy that I am, we have in our checklist the
"Land as soon as possible" and "Land as soon as practicable". The first
means land now, where you can, and the latter, means the nearest suitable
airfield...