W&B for Arrow

[Frode Berg]

Hi!

Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
I am entering info into a computer programme, and can't seem to get it
right....

The ones I have tell me that I can't fly with myself and my wife in the
front, and my son (age 12) in the back with full fuel.

Can this be right?
I did a calculation manually a while back, and it seamed ok, and been flying
like this a while, so I'm thinking I have some messed up numbers.
Or is the 180 hp Arrow simply impossible to load?

To adults in front and full fuel is not possible either according to my
programme.....

Any ideas?

Frode

[Morgans]

"Frode Berg" > wrote

> T(w)o adults in front and full fuel is not possible either, according to
my
> programme.....
>
> Any ideas?

<Chuckle> I gotta think there is something wrong here, if it is from a
balance problem. If it is a weight problem, that would not be that hard to
believe.

Which is it? What are the weights involved, and where?

We'll give you an out, so you don't have to squeal on your wife's weight.
<g> Give us the -combined- weight of both front seat occupants. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Bob Chilcoat]

Frode,

The Excel spreadsheet I just sent you seems to work correctly for our
Archer. It shows that there is virtually no way to load the airplane to get
it into the utility category, so oddball loading problems do, apparently
occur. I don't know if the Arrow is similar, but you might want to try my
spreadsheet and see if you get similar results. I will also be very
interested if you find an error in it.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
> Hi!
>
> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
> I am entering info into a computer programme, and can't seem to get it
> right....
>
> The ones I have tell me that I can't fly with myself and my wife in the
> front, and my son (age 12) in the back with full fuel.
>
> Can this be right?
> I did a calculation manually a while back, and it seamed ok, and been
> flying like this a while, so I'm thinking I have some messed up numbers.
> Or is the 180 hp Arrow simply impossible to load?
>
> To adults in front and full fuel is not possible either according to my
> programme.....
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Frode
>

[Jim Burns]

Examine how and or IF the empty weight of the airplane is entered. If
you've correctly entered the fuel and passengers, you may find that the
airplane empty weight or moments are missing or incorrect.
Jim

"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
> Hi!
>
> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
> I am entering info into a computer programme, and can't seem to get it
> right....
>
> The ones I have tell me that I can't fly with myself and my wife in the
> front, and my son (age 12) in the back with full fuel.
>
> Can this be right?
> I did a calculation manually a while back, and it seamed ok, and been
flying
> like this a while, so I'm thinking I have some messed up numbers.
> Or is the 180 hp Arrow simply impossible to load?
>
> To adults in front and full fuel is not possible either according to my
> programme.....
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Frode
>
>

[Stubby]

Frode Berg wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
> I am entering info into a computer programme, and can't seem to get it
> right....
>
> The ones I have tell me that I can't fly with myself and my wife in the
> front, and my son (age 12) in the back with full fuel.
>
> Can this be right?
> I did a calculation manually a while back, and it seamed ok, and been flying
> like this a while, so I'm thinking I have some messed up numbers.
> Or is the 180 hp Arrow simply impossible to load?
>
> To adults in front and full fuel is not possible either according to my
> programme.....
>
> Any ideas?

Can you borrow the POH for the plane you want to fly. Section 6 has it all.

[Frode Berg]

Hi!

For some reason, the POH is missing.

Probable got damaged and destroyed many years back.

I am an owner of this plane, and can't figure out the W&B....

Doesn't sound too good does it...:-)

Anyway, so far, I have only operated it alone (85kg) or with a friend.
I know you should always calculate W&B, and I have based on a generic Arrow
document, but I wanted to make it correct.
One of the other owners sent me a W&B sheet, and this is the one that gives
the headache...

The Archer one that was mailed to me from Bob (thankx man!) makes all look a
lot more correct.

If I put myself and wife in the front, fill the tanks (wife is 65kg by the
way) then the W&B sheet I have tell me the CG is way too much forward.
I don't believe this, as I have flown like this many time, and the plane has
always handled as you'd think it should.

Would a maintenance facility be able to calculate a new graph for me?

Anyone on this group with a 1968 Arrow that can verify to me that two people
weighing approx 155 kg combined and full fuel will be legal in this plane?

Thanks for all replies, and thanks to Bob and Victor for emailing me their
W&B charts!

Frode

"Stubby" > skrev i melding
...
>
>
> Frode Berg wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
>> I am entering info into a computer programme, and can't seem to get it
>> right....
>>
>> The ones I have tell me that I can't fly with myself and my wife in the
>> front, and my son (age 12) in the back with full fuel.
>>
>> Can this be right?
>> I did a calculation manually a while back, and it seamed ok, and been
>> flying like this a while, so I'm thinking I have some messed up numbers.
>> Or is the 180 hp Arrow simply impossible to load?
>>
>> To adults in front and full fuel is not possible either according to my
>> programme.....
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> Can you borrow the POH for the plane you want to fly. Section 6 has it
> all.

[Frode Berg]

Wife and myself are about 155 kgs combined weight.

Frode


"Morgans" > skrev i melding
...
>
> "Frode Berg" > wrote
>
>> T(w)o adults in front and full fuel is not possible either, according to
> my
>> programme.....
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> <Chuckle> I gotta think there is something wrong here, if it is from a
> balance problem. If it is a weight problem, that would not be that hard
> to
> believe.
>
> Which is it? What are the weights involved, and where?
>
> We'll give you an out, so you don't have to squeal on your wife's weight.
> <g> Give us the -combined- weight of both front seat occupants. ;-)
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Jose]

> For some reason, the POH is missing.
>
> Probable got damaged and destroyed many years back.
>
> I am an owner of this plane, and can't figure out the W&B....
>
> Doesn't sound too good does it...:-)

Do you know the actual empty weight and moment? If not, have it weighed
at a qualified FBO. It's not a bad idea anyway; by the time an
airplane gets old enough, it picks up enough hangar crud to make a
significant change in the W&B. Ours did anyway (we had some surprises
when they were reweighed from scratch).

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Stubby]

Jose wrote:

>> For some reason, the POH is missing.
>>
>> Probable got damaged and destroyed many years back.
>>
>> I am an owner of this plane, and can't figure out the W&B....
>>
>> Doesn't sound too good does it...:-)
>
>
> Do you know the actual empty weight and moment? If not, have it weighed
> at a qualified FBO. It's not a bad idea anyway; by the time an
> airplane gets old enough, it picks up enough hangar crud to make a
> significant change in the W&B. Ours did anyway (we had some surprises
> when they were reweighed from scratch).

Try the Piper web site. Maybe they have the POH online. I actually
bought one in a 2nd had bookshop for $7.50 a few years ago! Or maybe
there is a users' group in your area and you can copy someone else's.
If you're in the Boston area, you can borrow mine.

[RST Engineering]

The POH isn't going to do him a damned bit of good without current empty W/B
data. The method of calculating loaded W/B data is in the Type Certificate
Data Sheets. If he has the current empty data, I'll take the time to cut
and paste the TCDS into this ng and explain to him how to do the
calculations.

Jim



"Stubby" > wrote in message
...
>
> Try the Piper web site. Maybe they have the POH online. I actually
> bought one in a 2nd had bookshop for $7.50 a few years ago! Or maybe
> there is a users' group in your area and you can copy someone else's. If
> you're in the Boston area, you can borrow mine.

[john smith]

Frode Berg wrote:
> Would a maintenance facility be able to calculate a new graph for me?

Either that or some homebuilders in your area. They may have some scales
or access to them. May save you some money, also.

[George Patterson]

Frode Berg wrote:
>
> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?

Check http://home.att.net/~jm.price/fly.htm

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Frode Berg]

Thanks!

Great page! Very helpful!

Frode

"George Patterson" > skrev i melding
news:adtDe.10368$YD3.437@trndny03...
> Frode Berg wrote:
>>
>> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
>
> Check http://home.att.net/~jm.price/fly.htm
>
> George Patterson
> Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
> and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
> Because she smells like a new truck.

[Aluckyguess]

On my 180 I had to put some weight in the back to get it right.

"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
> Hi!
>
> Anyone got a default WB graph for an 180 hp Arrow?
> I am entering info into a computer programme, and can't seem to get it
> right....
>
> The ones I have tell me that I can't fly with myself and my wife in the
> front, and my son (age 12) in the back with full fuel.
>
> Can this be right?
> I did a calculation manually a while back, and it seamed ok, and been
> flying like this a while, so I'm thinking I have some messed up numbers.
> Or is the 180 hp Arrow simply impossible to load?
>
> To adults in front and full fuel is not possible either according to my
> programme.....
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Frode
>