IFR vs. VFR along the east coast - a long pilot's log

[Maule Driver]

We did a roundtrip this weekend from Durham NC to Saratoga Springs NY
and back. Went IFR on the way up and VFR on the way back.

Conditions on the way up were primarily VFR with convective storms.
Even though I filed a route to avoid the DC ADIZ, I was routed through
it in order to miss the restricted area at Aberdeen. I stopped at
Kutztown to eat and fuel. I filed to avoid a convective sigmet over the
Catskills but was cleared for a route directly thru it. I decided to
look but it soon became clear that my original route was the right path.
Seems to be a great deal of reluctance for ABE approach to coordinate
with NY. ABE and everywhere else seems slow after NY... Albany
approach gave us accurate storm avoidance information and we enjoyed the
lightening picket line to our left as we rounded the last storm and
landed at Saratoga - minutes before storm gusts started to blow. Less
than 15 mins in IMC but critical to remaining high and otherwise visual.

The forecast back home was hard VFR and I really wanted to fly as
straight as possible and hopefully do it in one leg. Decided not to
talk at all and simply work out the routing as we went. THis turned out
to be a lot of map work but to my surprise, I could virtually go direct
PXT and home. The winds were variable but favorable so we cruised at
9,500. I climbd up to 10,500 after encoutering some chop I sensed was
some kind of windshear that could mean better speeds higher up. I
gained 10 knots at 9,800 feet so the climb paid off with up to 30 knots
of tailwind.

It felt illegal and wrong flying without radio contact including over
the top of Phillie Class B. I tuned all the right freqs and heard
myself called out several times. No one had any real problems but an
unknown VFR target is a real liability. Despite ground radar and TCAS,
I don't think a single airliner ever saw us even though I easily spotted
them. I don't think we'll be doing that again.

Great weekend and flight. Very satisfying use of the plane and the
airspace.

[Jose]

> It felt illegal and wrong flying without radio contact including over the top of Phillie Class B. I tuned all the right freqs and heard myself called out several times.

You could have just told them where you were and confirmed your
altitude, then you would no longer be "unknown" VFR. Thus they know who
to call you out to, and who not to bother with. You're out of their
airspace, so they shouldn't try to vector you, and you can decline anyway.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gary Drescher]

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
om...
> We did a roundtrip this weekend from Durham NC to Saratoga Springs NY and
> back. Went IFR on the way up and VFR on the way back.

Sounds like a fun trip!

> It felt illegal and wrong flying without radio contact including over the
> top of Phillie Class B. I tuned all the right freqs and heard myself
> called out several times. No one had any real problems but an unknown VFR
> target is a real liability.

As long as you were tuned in anyway, why not just ask for flight following?

--Gary

[Maule Driver]

No reason other than novelty. I haven't made a no FF or non-IFR trip in
a long time.

Next time, I will use FF if for no other reason than just out of
courtesy to other pilots. "VFR I'm talking to" is a lot better than
"unknown VFR".

Gary Drescher wrote:
> As long as you were tuned in anyway, why not just ask for flight
following?

[Guy Elden Jr]

> No reason other than novelty. I haven't made a no FF or non-IFR trip in
> a long time.
>
> Next time, I will use FF if for no other reason than just out of
> courtesy to other pilots. "VFR I'm talking to" is a lot better than
> "unknown VFR".

Another reason would be to get continuous altimeter updates...
especially important on long x-countries where you may be a hundred or
two feet off after a few hours.

--
jr

[Gary Drescher]

"Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> No reason other than novelty. I haven't made a no FF or non-IFR trip in
>> a long time.
>>
>> Next time, I will use FF if for no other reason than just out of
>> courtesy to other pilots. "VFR I'm talking to" is a lot better than
>> "unknown VFR".
>
> Another reason would be to get continuous altimeter updates...
> especially important on long x-countries where you may be a hundred or
> two feet off after a few hours.

Yup, though another option for that purpose would be to tune in to a nearby
ATIS or ASOS/AWOS, or to ask FSS or EFAS during a weather-update request or
a PIREP.

--Gary

[Ron Natalie]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> "Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in message

>
> Yup, though another option for that purpose would be to tune in to a nearby
> ATIS or ASOS/AWOS, or to ask FSS or EFAS during a weather-update request or
> a PIREP.
>
Or I punch FIS, right button twice, and then pick up the closest METAR
on the list on the MX20.

[Gary Drescher]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Gary Drescher wrote:
>> "Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in message
>
>>
>> Yup, though another option for that purpose would be to tune in to a
>> nearby ATIS or ASOS/AWOS, or to ask FSS or EFAS during a weather-update
>> request or a PIREP.
>>
> Or I punch FIS, right button twice, and then pick up the closest METAR on
> the list on the MX20.

Nice option if you've got it. :)

--Gary

[Maule Driver]

Believe me, an accurate altimeter setting is easy if you listen to the
radio. I can look up a close by approach or center freg using NRST on
my Garmin 300XL. I generally just listened to Center on this particular
flight because I was flying at 9 and 10K. Plenty of altimeter updates
there. Not a problem.

Guy Elden Jr wrote:

>>Next time, I will use FF if for no other reason than just out of
>>courtesy to other pilots. "VFR I'm talking to" is a lot better than
>>"unknown VFR".

> Another reason would be to get continuous altimeter updates...
> especially important on long x-countries where you may be a hundred or
> two feet off after a few hours.
>
> --
> jr
>

[Peter R.]

Maule Driver > wrote:

> Believe me, an accurate altimeter setting is easy if you listen to the
> radio. I can look up a close by approach or center freg using NRST on
> my Garmin 300XL. I generally just listened to Center on this particular
> flight because I was flying at 9 and 10K. Plenty of altimeter updates
> there. Not a problem.

But are those altimeter settings you heard and used applicable for your
particular location?

In my experience, a center frequency typically covers a large area, one
that conceivably could have multiple altimeter settings depending on an
aircraft's location. With an approaching high or low pressure, the
difference in altimeter settings within that center's airspace could be
significant.

As a "lurker" to the frequency, one wouldn't necessarily know where the
receiving aircraft was located and, therefore, might use an incorrect
altimeter setting.


--
Peter

[Maule Driver]

Valid point. Probably not the case here.

I cross checked the center freqs with my freq log on the way up (I write
'em all down when IFR). Not so much for altimeter settings but to
validate the 300XLs NRST Center function with reality. I've never done
this before because I always talk. No discrepancies noted.

I checked the appropriate approach freqs based on my location - that's
pretty straight forward for most of the flight. Though it's not clear
to me that Center up above is consistently uses the altimeter setting
corresponding to the corresponding approach down below. comments?

On a VFR day, there is so much VFR FF chatter, it's pretty easy to pick
up a call from a closeby a/c with a 'good' altimeter setting. Though I
wasn't talking I was at times listening to 2 freqs.

And, for most of this flight, Center freqs don't seem to cover all that
much territory. A congested NE statement I guess.

Bottom line, is it's not required. It's see and be seen at whatever
altitude I choose to fly. In CAVU with a slow plane on a simple weather
day, it's difficult to even come up with a dangerous scenario. But I
worked at it anyway almost unconsiously. There just wasn't that much
else to do.

Peter R. wrote:
> Maule Driver > wrote:
>>Believe me, an accurate altimeter setting is easy if you listen to the
>>radio. I can look up a close by approach or center freg using NRST on
>>my Garmin 300XL. I generally just listened to Center on this particular
>>flight because I was flying at 9 and 10K. Plenty of altimeter updates
>>there. Not a problem.
>
> But are those altimeter settings you heard and used applicable for your
> particular location?
>
> In my experience, a center frequency typically covers a large area, one
> that conceivably could have multiple altimeter settings depending on an
> aircraft's location. With an approaching high or low pressure, the
> difference in altimeter settings within that center's airspace could be
> significant.
>
> As a "lurker" to the frequency, one wouldn't necessarily know where the
> receiving aircraft was located and, therefore, might use an incorrect
> altimeter setting.
>

[Peter R.]

Maule Driver > wrote:

> I checked the appropriate approach freqs based on my location - that's
> pretty straight forward for most of the flight. Though it's not clear
> to me that Center up above is consistently uses the altimeter setting
> corresponding to the corresponding approach down below. comments?

In my experience, center uses the altimeter setting from an airport that is
relatively close by, whether or not it has an approach facility. However,
it appears to me that they only use a select few airports across their
airspace rather than every nearby airport's setting, perhaps to ensure all
aircraft in a given "sector" are operating on one setting.

Hopefully this will be confirmed or corrected by one of the ATC regulars
here.

> On a VFR day, there is so much VFR FF chatter, it's pretty easy to pick
> up a call from a closeby a/c with a 'good' altimeter setting. Though I
> wasn't talking I was at times listening to 2 freqs.
>
> And, for most of this flight, Center freqs don't seem to cover all that
> much territory. A congested NE statement I guess.

Certainly as you get closer to NY City, Boston, or Philly, I would agree,
but there are places across NY state where one frequency will cover a
hundred miles east-to-wast. Cleveland Center on one frequency starts at
Syracuse (central NY) and covers all the way to Lake Erie, located in the
far western part of the state.

To bring this back to the point, one day last March I flew this 100 mile
route (but lower through the approach facilities) and received a dramatic
drop in altimeter setting with each change in approach facilities. I
recall there being almost an inch difference in altimeter settings between
central NY and western NY. It was so noticeable that airline pilots on the
frequency were commenting on the difference.

> Bottom line, is it's not required. It's see and be seen at whatever
> altitude I choose to fly. In CAVU with a slow plane on a simple weather
> day, it's difficult to even come up with a dangerous scenario. But I
> worked at it anyway almost unconsiously. There just wasn't that much
> else to do.

Yep, good point. It really isn't *that* important when VFR on a CAVU day.


--
Peter
























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