Your free AvGas fillup at Dodge Center MN (TOB) July Sunday 31, AM

[abripl]

Hi,

Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after me
continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of about
$50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660

[n93332]

"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
> Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
> fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after me
> continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of about
> $50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
> accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
> corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
> charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660

Thanks for the gas! ;-) About 50 gallons? Not in my plane...

Seriously, do you think you have ANY chance of finding the person(s) that
filled up after you on these newsgroups? I hope you're lucky and find out
who it is and get the $150 credit back. Did you notice anyone else around
TOB after you filled up?

Good luck!

-Greg B.

[[email protected]]

How did you find out about this if you just got home? I'd think you
would need to get your statement before discovering the error . . .

www.Rosspilot.com

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> How did you find out about this if you just got home? I'd think you
> would need to get your statement before discovering the error . . .

There are any number of ways a person could learn of an unexpected charge on
their credit card prior to a statement being mailed to them. Online
statements, credit card company calling to follow-up, checking one's balance
by phone, etc.

I think it's highly unlikely the original poster will ever see that $150
again. Unless he happens to find just the right forum, AND the person who
filled up recognized they did so on someone else's card, AND that person
actually feels like paying up.

I think the first criteria is unlikely, the second HIGHLY likely, and the
third unlikely. I'm not aware of any single forum that any very large
proportion of the pilot population reads. Even AOPA Pilot is read by only
roughly half the pilots in the US.

The second criteria seems very likely to me. The self-serve pumps have an
involved process to pay for and pump gas. Anyone pumping gas on someone
else's card would simply skip all that, and would certainly notice doing so.

The third criteria seems especially unlikely. After all, someone dishonest
enough to notice that they are pumping gas on someone else's card, but not
go ahead and cancel out the transaction and start their own, that kind of
person isn't going to pay up later. They're just a jerk, and are probably
laughing about how they screwed someone else over.

All of the above is conjecture, of course. But I think it's more likely
than not to be reasonably accurate conjecture.

Pete

[john smith]

What???
No video cam recording activity at the pump?

[B. Jensen]

Greg,

Call your CC company and tell them what happened. They "might" credit
you for this mistake. It's worth a try.

BJ

n93332 wrote:

>"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
>>Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
>>fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after me
>>continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of about
>>$50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
>>accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
>>corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
>>charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for the gas! ;-) About 50 gallons? Not in my plane...
>
>Seriously, do you think you have ANY chance of finding the person(s) that
>filled up after you on these newsgroups? I hope you're lucky and find out
>who it is and get the $150 credit back. Did you notice anyone else around
>TOB after you filled up?
>
>Good luck!
>
>-Greg B.
>
>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

It only takes one time to learn :). I would contact the credit card
company and see what they can do. If they consider it an "authorized
charge" then you'll get your credit. Not sure how they will look at it
though.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

FWIW - On most "do it yourself" gas pumps at the airfields I have flown
into asks a series of questions with the first being "have you ground
your aircraft," Followed usually by N number then amount to be debited
to card. I usually enter an amount that is roughly $10 to $20 over
what I think I need (adjusting of course for price flucuations). Once
this is done the most I could lose would be $10 or $20 bucks. the pump
will automatically shut off at the higher limit.
What was the upper limit you expected to reach?

[Ted]

" wrote:

> How did you find out about this if you just got home? I'd think you
> would need to get your statement before discovering the error . . .

What, are you stuck in the 1980s or something? Today most credit card
companies and even credit unions offer online account access via the
Internet. Some companies, such as MBNA, even show authorizations
before they post as charges, which usually takes 1-3 days. If I charge
something now, in less than 10 seconds from now I can see the
authorization online. No need to wait around for a statement to wonder
in via the mailman. Of course all authorizations may not post for
various reasons or the amount authorized might vary from what eventually
posts. Hotels usually authorize a big number upon check in. Sometimes
(auto) gas stations authorize $1, sometimes a larger number like $50.

Speaking of which, to the OP: is it possible that the charge you are
seeing is just an authorization and not a charge? The self-pump might
have authorized an arbitrary large number to make sure your credit card
was good for it before it let you pump anything. When the charge posts
(in 1-3 days) it will show the actual amount being charged. Self-help
pumps usually time out pretty quickly.

[abripl]

> .... the pump will automatically shut off at the higher limit (entered)

Thats interesting. Just prior to that I filled up at a pump with an
upper limit (I entered 20 gallons and it filled with 10 gallons). But
this one did not ask anything...
Today was my first time I used self serve...

The reason I posted was just in case.... There are some honest
people.....

[Aluckyguess]

It was unauthorized the guy stole the gas. He should get credited back.
Pretty simple really. Cancel the card if they disagree.
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> It only takes one time to learn :). I would contact the credit card
> company and see what they can do. If they consider it an "authorized
> charge" then you'll get your credit. Not sure how they will look at it
> though.
>
> -Robert
>

[George Patterson]

abripl wrote:
>
> Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
> Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
> fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly.

I expect that you are assuming this is the cause of the bill. Write your credit
card company (call if you like, but you still have to write). Tell them that you
charged $50 on your card for fuel and the FBO billed you for $200. Contest the
charge.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Peter Duniho]

"Ted" > wrote in message ...
> [...]
> Speaking of which, to the OP: is it possible that the charge you are
> seeing is just an authorization and not a charge? The self-pump might
> have authorized an arbitrary large number to make sure your credit card
> was good for it before it let you pump anything.

That's a very good point. Wish I'd thought of it when I was writing my
previous post. :(

It is indeed very common for the initial credit card transaction to be that
authorization. If you pick "fill up" on the pump, it will record an
authorization on your credit card equal to some pre-determined maximum (the
maximum fuel available on a "fill up" will be determined by this maximum and
the current fuel price).

Good thing Ted mentioned it...even though I was aware of this, I probably
wouldn't have gotten my brain in gear enough to connect the two.

Pete

[Jay Honeck]

> It was unauthorized the guy stole the gas. He should get credited back.

Well, yes and no.

He authorized a purchase of up to "x" amount at the pump. He then filled
his plane to "y" amount, leaving the remainder of "x" as an authorized
purchase. The next guy used up his authorized purchase, if I'm following
this thread correctly.

No credit card company is going to be able to discern the difference between
what he did, and what he *meant* to do. He goofed, and someone filled up
using his remaining credit. They may not even realize it, yet.

Worse yet, if the credit card company DOES credit him back, they will charge
back the merchant automatically. Then the FBO is out the money, which
helps no one.

Credit card companies cannot (and will not) ever lose. They represent the
worst in our economy, ranking right behind insurance and liability issues as
one of the three biggest detriments to economic growth.

IMHO, of course!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Darrel Toepfer]

n93332 wrote:

> Seriously, do you think you have ANY chance of finding the person(s) that
> filled up after you on these newsgroups? I hope you're lucky and find out
> who it is and get the $150 credit back.

My dad did, it was alot more than $150 too, 2 cropdusters...

CC company actually called because the bill was not in the norm...

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:pWoHe.210555$_o.100697@attbi_s71...
> > It was unauthorized the guy stole the gas. He should get credited back.

>
> Credit card companies cannot (and will not) ever lose. They represent
the
> worst in our economy, ranking right behind insurance and liability issues
as
> one of the three biggest detriments to economic growth.

They are middlemen between the customer and the merchant and not really a
party to the transaction, merely a facilitator. Why should they be liable
unless they screwed it up somehow?

The fellow in this case failed to closed the pump. In the same way if he
left his wallet full of cash around, he was grossly negligent.

Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for his
actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?

>
> IMHO, of course!

I gotta opinion 'fer ya right here!!

[Allen]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> The fellow in this case failed to closed the pump. In the same way if he
> left his wallet full of cash around, he was grossly negligent.
>
> Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for his
> actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
>
>>
>> IMHO, of course!
>
> I gotta opinion 'fer ya right here!!
>

You are right but there were two wrongs here. Failure to properly end the
transaction was the first one. The second was the person who took advantage
of the situation to make off with the "free" gas. That was like finding the
wallet full of cash and not trying to return it intact to it's rightful
owner. Responsibility and morality are on the decline everywhere you look.

IMHO

Allen

[Matt Barrow]

"Allen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The fellow in this case failed to closed the pump. In the same way if he
> > left his wallet full of cash around, he was grossly negligent.
> >
> > Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for
his
> > actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
> >
> >>
> You are right but there were two wrongs here. Failure to properly end the
> transaction was the first one. The second was the person who took
advantage
> of the situation to make off with the "free" gas. That was like finding
the
> wallet full of cash and not trying to return it intact to it's rightful
> owner. Responsibility and morality are on the decline everywhere you
look.

And that's something new? Let me give you some insight in to the last 10,000
years...

[abripl]

> Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for his
> actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?

Hey Jay, I didn't start this thread to blame anybody. Just posted it
requesting the guy to contact me to straighten this out. There are some
honest people. Some will even return a wallet full of money to the
owner. Is honesty passe in America?

[John Larson]

That's harsh, but exactly right.

We have all done some screwy things in our life that have cost us money or
whatever. The difference is, we keep it mostly to ourselves or close
friends.

If this went down as the poster says, it was his fault. Most of us would not
take advantage of such a situation, but there are people who do.

This guy is going to eventually learn that when this kind of thing happens,
don't tell the world on rec.aviation.piloting.
"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:pWoHe.210555$_o.100697@attbi_s71...
>> > It was unauthorized the guy stole the gas. He should get credited back.
>
>>
>> Credit card companies cannot (and will not) ever lose. They represent
> the
>> worst in our economy, ranking right behind insurance and liability issues
> as
>> one of the three biggest detriments to economic growth.
>
> They are middlemen between the customer and the merchant and not really a
> party to the transaction, merely a facilitator. Why should they be liable
> unless they screwed it up somehow?
>
> The fellow in this case failed to closed the pump. In the same way if he
> left his wallet full of cash around, he was grossly negligent.
>
> Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for his
> actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
>
>>
>> IMHO, of course!
>
> I gotta opinion 'fer ya right here!!
>
>
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"John Larson" > wrote:

> We have all done some screwy things in our life that have cost us money or
> whatever. The difference is, we keep it mostly to ourselves or close
> friends.

and the point of being secretive about it is....?
At the very least, it was a good reminder to people to be
careful about shutting off self-service pumps - especially pumps
you are not familar with.

> If this went down as the poster says, it was his fault.

agreed.

>Most of us would not
> take advantage of such a situation, but there are people who do.

and there are people that, given a chance, will make good on a mistake,
especially if they weren't aware of the issue.

> This guy is going to eventually learn that when this kind of thing happens,
> don't tell the world on rec.aviation.piloting.

Well, he didn't tell rap about it, he was trying to see if someone would
be honest about it. The OP's attempt harms no one.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Allen]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Allen" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > The fellow in this case failed to closed the pump. In the same way if
>> > he
>> > left his wallet full of cash around, he was grossly negligent.
>> >
>> > Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for
> his
>> > actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
>> >
>> >>
>> You are right but there were two wrongs here. Failure to properly end
>> the
>> transaction was the first one. The second was the person who took
> advantage
>> of the situation to make off with the "free" gas. That was like finding
> the
>> wallet full of cash and not trying to return it intact to it's rightful
>> owner. Responsibility and morality are on the decline everywhere you
> look.
>
> And that's something new? Let me give you some insight in to the last
> 10,000
> years...
>
>

You are the own asking if responsibility is passe in America now. Same
shoe, other foot.

Allen

[John Larson]

Why be secretive? It's not being "secretive" when we screw up and
don't want to become an object of riducule.

Well, not just say "Don't forget to turn the pump off after fueling at
self-service pumps" instead of spreading a blanket statement
maintaining that someone stole his gas?



On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:56:13 -0400, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "John Larson" > wrote:
>
>> We have all done some screwy things in our life that have cost us money or
>> whatever. The difference is, we keep it mostly to ourselves or close
>> friends.
>
>and the point of being secretive about it is....?
>At the very least, it was a good reminder to people to be
>careful about shutting off self-service pumps - especially pumps
>you are not familar with.
>
>> If this went down as the poster says, it was his fault.
>
>agreed.
>
>>Most of us would not
>> take advantage of such a situation, but there are people who do.
>
>and there are people that, given a chance, will make good on a mistake,
>especially if they weren't aware of the issue.
>
>> This guy is going to eventually learn that when this kind of thing happens,
>> don't tell the world on rec.aviation.piloting.
>
>Well, he didn't tell rap about it, he was trying to see if someone would
>be honest about it. The OP's attempt harms no one.

[Bob Noel]

In article >, John Larson <> wrote:

> Well, not just say "Don't forget to turn the pump off after fueling at
> self-service pumps" instead of spreading a blanket statement
> maintaining that someone stole his gas?

I didn't read the original post as an accusation (especially since
he said "If it was you that accidentally filled up that morning after me ").

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Matt Barrow]

"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for
his
> > actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
>
> Hey Jay, I didn't start this thread to blame anybody. Just posted it
> requesting the guy to contact me to straighten this out. There are some
> honest people. Some will even return a wallet full of money to the
> owner. Is honesty passe in America?

I can understand your point, but in a nation of a million pilots it seems
"silly" to post to a group that has maybe 100 participants.

This is what's called a "long shot" in the extreme.

[Matt Barrow]

"Allen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Allen" > wrote in message
> > ...

> >> wallet full of cash and not trying to return it intact to it's rightful
> >> owner. Responsibility and morality are on the decline everywhere you
> > look.
> >
> > And that's something new? Let me give you some insight in to the last
> > 10,000
> > years...
> >
> >
>
> You are the own asking if responsibility is passe in America now. Same
> shoe, other foot.
>
Pardon? (Evidently grammar and sentence structure is passé, too).

[Matt Barrow]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "John Larson" > wrote:
>
> > This guy is going to eventually learn that when this kind of thing
happens,
> > don't tell the world on rec.aviation.piloting.
>
> Well, he didn't tell rap about it, he was trying to see if someone would
> be honest about it.

Pardon? He posts it in a group of maybe 100 people? Ahhh...

[Matt Barrow]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, John Larson <>
wrote:
>
> > Well, not just say "Don't forget to turn the pump off after fueling at
> > self-service pumps" instead of spreading a blanket statement
> > maintaining that someone stole his gas?
>
> I didn't read the original post as an accusation (especially since
> he said "If it was you that accidentally filled up that morning after me
").
>

Accidentally filled up?

[Jay Honeck]

"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for
>> his
>> actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
>
> Hey Jay, I didn't start this thread to blame anybody. Just posted it
> requesting the guy to contact me to straighten this out. There are some
> honest people. Some will even return a wallet full of money to the
> owner. Is honesty passe in America?

Not to confuse the issue even more, but I didn't say those two sentences
that you are apparently attributing to me.

I'm not blaming anyone, either. It's just a damned shame of a situation.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> Well, he didn't tell rap about it, he was trying to see if someone would
>> be honest about it.
>
> Pardon? He posts it in a group of maybe 100 people? Ahhh...

Matt, one thing I discovered at OSH is that this group is HUGE, although
there are only a relative hand-full of regular posters.

I was meeting people all week long from this group, most of whom I had never
heard of. They all started the conversation with "I'm mostly a lurker,
but..."

A great group of folks, BTW. Not a lemon in the bunch.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Larson]

Are you serious? Some guy "accidentally" gassed up his plane on this guys
dime?


"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, John Larson <>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, not just say "Don't forget to turn the pump off after fueling at
>> self-service pumps" instead of spreading a blanket statement
>> maintaining that someone stole his gas?
>
> I didn't read the original post as an accusation (especially since
> he said "If it was you that accidentally filled up that morning after me
> ").
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> no one likes an educated mule
>

[abripl]

Yep, you are right it was Matt that said it....

[Peter Duniho]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> Are you serious? Some guy "accidentally" gassed up his plane on this guys
> dime?

The point Bob was making (I think) is that the original post was certainly
not worded as an accusation.

If he really did wind up with someone else buying gas on his dime, I
certainly agree it's unlikely that person did so unknowingly. But Paul's
original post was worded very kindly, and not at all in an accusatory tone.

In other words, your use of the word "stole" implies that he was accusing
the person of something (like stealing). When in fact he worded his post so
as to allow for the possibility that the person simply accidently wandered
off with his money (so to speak).

As far as who's fault it is, if the gas was indeed stolen, I'd say it was
both Paul's fault, as well as whoever stole the gas. And it was mostly the
fault of the person who stole the gas. That's not to say that Paul should
be absolved of his commitment to pay his credit card company what is owed;
as has been pointed out, if he gets out of paying, the cost will be borne by
entirely innocent parties, which is obviously not fair or right.

But to stand around and imply that Paul got what he deserved for making such
an error (assuming he did make such an error) is unreasonable. If everyone
in the world were honorable and honest, his mistake wouldn't have led to any
loss at all.

Pete

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:UgBHe.232056$xm3.20686@attbi_s21...
> "abripl" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >> Too bad, but the fellow needs to grow and an accept responsibility for
> >> his
> >> actions. Or it that passe in America anymore?
> >
> > Hey Jay, I didn't start this thread to blame anybody. Just posted it
> > requesting the guy to contact me to straighten this out. There are some
> > honest people. Some will even return a wallet full of money to the
> > owner. Is honesty passe in America?
>
> Not to confuse the issue even more, but I didn't say those two sentences
> that you are apparently attributing to me.
>
> I'm not blaming anyone, either. It's just a damned shame of a situation.

No, but you essentially crapped on the CC company for not eating the charge.

[Matt Barrow]

"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yep, you are right it was Matt that said it....

And my reply was sirected at Jay's take on the CC company, not you.

You neither accepted, nor denied, responsibility.

I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup that is
frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
like whining to me.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ajBHe.231973$nG6.76381@attbi_s22...
> >> Well, he didn't tell rap about it, he was trying to see if someone
would
> >> be honest about it.
> >
> > Pardon? He posts it in a group of maybe 100 people? Ahhh...
>
> Matt, one thing I discovered at OSH is that this group is HUGE, although
> there are only a relative hand-full of regular posters.
>
> I was meeting people all week long from this group, most of whom I had
never
> heard of. They all started the conversation with "I'm mostly a lurker,
> but..."
>
> A great group of folks, BTW. Not a lemon in the bunch.

Okay...200-300, let's say 500.

Out of how many active pilots?

Interestingly, many tech-support people at my ISP (QWEST) don't know what
Newsgroups/UseNet is.

[Matt Barrow]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> Are you serious? Some guy "accidentally" gassed up his plane on this guys
> dime?


Oh boy...shades of Eddie Murphy at the beginning of "Trading Places"

No, I've got a better idea: How about posting a note at the FBO where it
happened. Odds of finding the "culprit" are much better on the scale of
thousands-to-one.



> "Bob Noel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, John Larson <>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Well, not just say "Don't forget to turn the pump off after fueling at
> >> self-service pumps" instead of spreading a blanket statement
> >> maintaining that someone stole his gas?
> >
> > I didn't read the original post as an accusation (especially since
> > he said "If it was you that accidentally filled up that morning after me
> > ").
> >
> > --
> > Bob Noel
> > no one likes an educated mule
> >
>
>

[Allen]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Allen" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Allen" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>
>> >> wallet full of cash and not trying to return it intact to it's
>> >> rightful
>> >> owner. Responsibility and morality are on the decline everywhere you
>> > look.
>> >
>> > And that's something new? Let me give you some insight in to the last
>> > 10,000
>> > years...
>> >
>> >
>>
>> You are the own asking if responsibility is passe in America now. Same
>> shoe, other foot.
>>
> Pardon? (Evidently grammar and sentence structure is passé, too).
>

Stupid autocorrect, you know exactly what I meant.

[Matt Barrow]

"Allen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Allen" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > "Allen" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >
> >> >> wallet full of cash and not trying to return it intact to it's
> >> >> rightful
> >> >> owner. Responsibility and morality are on the decline everywhere
you
> >> > look.
> >> >
> >> > And that's something new? Let me give you some insight in to the last
> >> > 10,000
> >> > years...
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> You are the own asking if responsibility is passe in America now. Same
> >> shoe, other foot.
> >>
> > Pardon? (Evidently grammar and sentence structure is passé, too).
> >
>
> Stupid autocorrect, you know exactly what I meant.

I said responsibility was passé; you said morality was passé.

[abripl]

> And my reply was sirected at Jay's take on the CC company, not you.

Its a public news group where anybody can respond to anybody.

> You neither accepted, nor denied, responsibility.

What am I supposed to say? Is this a Martha Stewart case?
Tell me exact words you want me to use to make my confession.

> I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup that is
> frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
> like whining to me.

Many people participate in a 1/100,000,000 odds lottery and pay for it
- this is better odds 200/750,000 and free.... but many more lurk w/o
posting. And it brought out some practical suggestions from others (not
your accusations), and whats wrong with promoting honesty. And others
can learn from my incident. That was my first day using self serve.

[John Larson]

Me too ...


"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "abripl" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Yep, you are right it was Matt that said it....
>
> And my reply was sirected at Jay's take on the CC company, not you.
>
> You neither accepted, nor denied, responsibility.
>
> I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup that
> is
> frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
> like whining to me.
>
>
> --
> Matt
> ---------------------
> Matthew W. Barrow
> Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
> Montrose, CO
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > And my reply was sirected at Jay's take on the CC company, not you.
>
> Its a public news group where anybody can respond to anybody.
>
> > You neither accepted, nor denied, responsibility.
>
> What am I supposed to say? Is this a Martha Stewart case?
> Tell me exact words you want me to use to make my confession.
>
> > I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup
that is
> > frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
> > like whining to me.
>
> Many people participate in a 1/100,000,000 odds lottery and pay for it
> - this is better odds 200/750,000 and free.... but many more lurk w/o
> posting. And it brought out some practical suggestions from others (not
> your accusations), and whats wrong with promoting honesty.

Yeah...sure.

> And others
> can learn from my incident.

Sure didn't come off that way.

>That was my first day using self serve.

It's a tough life, kid.

[John Larson]

Blah blah blah.

It's whining if one does not take responsibility for ones irresponsible
actions. I include myself, if you don't include yourself or the original
poster, then whatever.

I repeat that it's best to keep such mistakes to oneself unless one is
thick-skinned enough to take the heat on a newsgroup.


"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "John Larson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Are you serious? Some guy "accidentally" gassed up his plane on this guys
>> dime?
>
> The point Bob was making (I think) is that the original post was certainly
> not worded as an accusation.
>
> If he really did wind up with someone else buying gas on his dime, I
> certainly agree it's unlikely that person did so unknowingly. But Paul's
> original post was worded very kindly, and not at all in an accusatory
> tone.
>
> In other words, your use of the word "stole" implies that he was accusing
> the person of something (like stealing). When in fact he worded his post
> so as to allow for the possibility that the person simply accidently
> wandered off with his money (so to speak).
>
> As far as who's fault it is, if the gas was indeed stolen, I'd say it was
> both Paul's fault, as well as whoever stole the gas. And it was mostly
> the fault of the person who stole the gas. That's not to say that Paul
> should be absolved of his commitment to pay his credit card company what
> is owed; as has been pointed out, if he gets out of paying, the cost will
> be borne by entirely innocent parties, which is obviously not fair or
> right.
>
> But to stand around and imply that Paul got what he deserved for making
> such an error (assuming he did make such an error) is unreasonable. If
> everyone in the world were honorable and honest, his mistake wouldn't have
> led to any loss at all.
>
> Pete
>

[John Larson]

I agree ...


"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Larson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Are you serious? Some guy "accidentally" gassed up his plane on this guys
>> dime?
>
>
> Oh boy...shades of Eddie Murphy at the beginning of "Trading Places"
>
> No, I've got a better idea: How about posting a note at the FBO where it
> happened. Odds of finding the "culprit" are much better on the scale of
> thousands-to-one.
>
>
>
>> "Bob Noel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, John Larson <>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well, not just say "Don't forget to turn the pump off after fueling at
>> >> self-service pumps" instead of spreading a blanket statement
>> >> maintaining that someone stole his gas?
>> >
>> > I didn't read the original post as an accusation (especially since
>> > he said "If it was you that accidentally filled up that morning after
>> > me
>> > ").
>> >
>> > --
>> > Bob Noel
>> > no one likes an educated mule
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[john smith]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup that is
> frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
> like whining to me.

Where did you get the 750k number?
There haven't been that many active pilots.
The number I heard last year was around 600k.

[John Larson]

I bet there aren't even that many ,,,


"john smith" > wrote in message
. ..
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>> I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup that
>> is
>> frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
>> like whining to me.
>
> Where did you get the 750k number?
> There haven't been that many active pilots.
> The number I heard last year was around 600k.

[Frank]

Jay Honeck wrote:

<snip>

>
> Matt, one thing I discovered at OSH is that this group is HUGE, although
> there are only a relative hand-full of regular posters.
>
> I was meeting people all week long from this group, most of whom I had
> never
> heard of. They all started the conversation with "I'm mostly a lurker,
> but..."
>

Lurking is a time honored Usenet tradition and should be encouraged. If you
lurk long enough you will eventually post..... And we all benefit in some
way from hearing other's opinions/wisdom, even if we don't always off our
own.

--
Frank....H

[Skywise]

"John Larson" > wrote in
:

> Blah blah blah.
>
> It's whining if one does not take responsibility for ones irresponsible
> actions. I include myself, if you don't include yourself or the original
> poster, then whatever.
>
> I repeat that it's best to keep such mistakes to oneself unless one is
> thick-skinned enough to take the heat on a newsgroup.
<Snipola>

And exactly why should anyone give him any 'heat' at all?

Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Jan]

Skywise > wrote:


>And exactly why should anyone give him any 'heat' at all?

>Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.
>
>Brian

You are correct, it is childish bullying by people with apparently far
too much free time on their hands. As Peter correctly noted, there was
nothing in the original post that warrants such treatment. But, then,
this is usenet, which, unfortunately, is a magnet for people inclined
to such behavior.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Not to confuse the issue even more, but I didn't say those two sentences
>> that you are apparently attributing to me.
>>
>> I'm not blaming anyone, either. It's just a damned shame of a situation.
>
> No, but you essentially crapped on the CC company for not eating the
> charge.

??? I don't believe it's the credit card company's fault, that's for sure.

My only comment is that the CC companies will never lose. If forced to
credit back the customer, they will charge back the FBO before they eat
anything themselves -- and they will ALWAYS take the word of the customer
ahead of the vendor.

In this particular case, especially, that would truly be a travesty of
justice.

Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the three
years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit card
companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They will
screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a nickel.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Interestingly, many tech-support people at my ISP (QWEST) don't know what
> Newsgroups/UseNet is.

True, Usenet is dying.

But it will be a noble death.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote

> It's a tough life, kid.

Do you practice being an ass, or does it come naturally?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> A great group of folks, BTW. Not a lemon in the bunch.

Hmmm, that might be stretching it a bit. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Duniho]

"Skywise" > wrote in message
...
> And exactly why should anyone give him any 'heat' at all?
>
> Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.

You are right, it is. Typical of this forum, but I'm glad I'm not the only
one who still feels compelled to comment on it. :)

Pete

[Matt Barrow]

AOPA says 618K pilots and 88K instructors.

http://aopa2.org/special/newsroom/stats/pilots.html


"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> I bet there aren't even that many ,,,
>
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Matt Barrow wrote:
> >> I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup
that
> >> is
> >> frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It
sounded
> >> like whining to me.
> >
> > Where did you get the 750k number?
> > There haven't been that many active pilots.
> > The number I heard last year was around 600k.
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:8bWHe.214647$_o.200543@attbi_s71...
> >> Not to confuse the issue even more, but I didn't say those two
sentences
> >> that you are apparently attributing to me.
> >>
> >> I'm not blaming anyone, either. It's just a damned shame of a
situation.
> >
> > No, but you essentially crapped on the CC company for not eating the
> > charge.
>
> ??? I don't believe it's the credit card company's fault, that's for
sure.

Didn't say that it was their FAULT.

>
> My only comment is that the CC companies will never lose.

That was ONE comment, but not your ONLY comment. IIRC, you suggested the CC
company should eat the charge.

> If forced to
> credit back the customer, they will charge back the FBO before they eat
> anything themselves -- and they will ALWAYS take the word of the customer
> ahead of the vendor.

Nope.

>
> In this particular case, especially, that would truly be a travesty of
> justice.
>

> Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the three
> years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit card
> companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They will
> screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
nickel.

Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?

[Matt Barrow]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote
>
> > It's a tough life, kid.
>
> Do you practice being an ass, or does it come naturally?

Are you ever going to outgrow adolescence?

[Matt Barrow]

"john smith" > wrote in message
. ..
> Matt Barrow wrote:
> > I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup
that is
> > frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It sounded
> > like whining to me.
>
> Where did you get the 750k number?
> There haven't been that many active pilots.
> The number I heard last year was around 600k.\

Does that really add anything to the point?

[Jay Honeck]

>> Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the three
>> years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit card
>> companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They will
>> screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
> nickel.
>
> Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?

Well, we may both be whining, but we're certainly seeing the issue from
different ends of the telescope.

He's worried about getting screwed by a fellow pilot who used his unused
credit at the pump. Others have suggested that he inform the credit card
company, in an effort to receive credit for the "unauthorized" charge.

I, on the other hand, am speaking from experience with dishonest card
holders who dispute legitimate charges, and are backed up by their
criminally complicit credit card companies. If the original poster informs
his CC company, and they actually credit him back the disputed amount, they
WILL charge the FBO, no questions asked, sight unseen. It is their standard
policy -- and the FBO will have very little recourse.

Bottom line: CC companies NEVER lose.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[StellaStarr]

Matt Barrow wrote:

> nickel.
>
> Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?
>
>

Matt, do you ever say anything nice?

[RST Engineering]

Jay, Jay, Jay. Haven't you killfiled this asshole yet?

Jim



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:4tXHe.214775$_o.8372@attbi_s71...
>>> Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the three
>>> years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit
>>> card
>>> companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They will
>>> screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
>> nickel.
>>
>> Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, Jay, Jay. Haven't you killfiled this asshole yet?

Nah. I *like* arguing, in case you haven't noticed...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[xyzzy]

StellaStarr wrote:

> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
>> nickel.
>>
>> Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?
>>
>>
>
> Matt, do you ever say anything nice?

When he first joined this newsgroup he was kind of reasonable and
interesting but as he's got more comfortable here he's really started
showing us all his backside.

This thread started out as someone simply taking a shot at the newsgroup
on the off chance that the pilot who got a fillup on his card is honest,
made an honest mistake, and might be on the newsgroup. Small odds but
worth a try IMO. From that according to Matt he's become a whiner who
doesn't take responsibility for his actions, etc etc. I'm starting to
think the self-righteous preaching is a more important hobby than flying
for Matt.

[Matt Barrow]

"StellaStarr" > wrote in message
news:0vXHe.234321$xm3.229592@attbi_s21...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> > nickel.
> >
> > Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?
> >
> >
>
> Matt, do you ever say anything nice?

Yes, when people talk like responsible adults.

If you'd rather a ditzy PC discussion, I suppose I could fake that for a few
minutes.

[Matt Barrow]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Jay, Jay, Jay. Haven't you killfiled this asshole yet?
>

GOD!! Speaking of assholes; Jim is the licensing board.

I try to point out; Jim bloats his ego.

[PRICK PLONK] for the phony ****house lawyer.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:4tXHe.214775$_o.8372@attbi_s71...
> >> Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the
three
> >> years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit
card
> >> companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They
will
> >> screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
> > nickel.
> >
> > Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?
>
> Well, we may both be whining, but we're certainly seeing the issue from
> different ends of the telescope.


I'm whining? I adhere to contracts and absorb my losses and don't advertise
them AND I'M WHINING?

>
> He's worried about getting screwed by a fellow pilot who used his unused
> credit at the pump. Others have suggested that he inform the credit card
> company, in an effort to receive credit for the "unauthorized" charge.

Fine, he should. But first he comes in as "Hey, did one of you rip me off??"

A adult would say what happened and ask "What should I do? Should I call the
CC company? Talk to the FBO?"

Jay, where are your great "conservative values"? :~)

BTW, my initial poiint was your jumpoff the create the strawman.

> I, on the other hand, am speaking from experience with dishonest card
> holders who dispute legitimate charges, and are backed up by their
> criminally complicit credit card companies.

Geez, listen to yourself. What does that tangent have to do with his case.
He screwed up royally and ANAICT, never accepted responsibility for that
screw up. Would you accpt such behavior from your kids, though they're MUCH
younger?

> If the original poster informs
> his CC company, and they actually credit him back the disputed amount,
they
> WILL charge the FBO, no questions asked, sight unseen. It is their
standard
> policy -- and the FBO will have very little recourse.
>
> Bottom line: CC companies NEVER lose.

They not supposed to lose, they're third parties to the transaction.

If they're that bad, why not stop accepting CC's?

BTW, want to guess how much they lose to CC fraud each year?

It never ceases to amaze me how people can rationalize _anything_.

[Matt Barrow]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:4tXHe.214775$_o.8372@attbi_s71...
> > >> Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the
> three
> > >> years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit
> card
> > >> companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They
> will
> > >> screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
> > > nickel.
> > >
> > > Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the
OP?
> >
> > Well, we may both be whining, but we're certainly seeing the issue from
> > different ends of the telescope.
>
>
> I'm whining? I adhere to contracts and absorb my losses and don't
advertise
> them AND I'M WHINING?

BTW, read the SUBJECT on this thread one more time.

[Matt Barrow]

"StellaStarr" > wrote in message
news:0vXHe.234321$xm3.229592@attbi_s21...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> > nickel.
> >
> > Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the OP?
> >
> >
>
> Matt, do you ever say anything nice?

Yeah, I do.

Maybe if you'd read more of my posts before shooting your mouth off you'd
realize that.

[Matt Barrow]

"Frank" > wrote in message ...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Matt, one thing I discovered at OSH is that this group is HUGE, although
> > there are only a relative hand-full of regular posters.
> >
> > I was meeting people all week long from this group, most of whom I had
> > never
> > heard of. They all started the conversation with "I'm mostly a lurker,
> > but..."
> >
>
> Lurking is a time honored Usenet tradition and should be encouraged. If
you
> lurk long enough you will eventually post..... And we all benefit in some
> way from hearing other's opinions/wisdom, even if we don't always off our
> own.


Okay you lurkers...count off from the right!!!

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Matt Barrow" > wrote:

> Okay you lurkers...count off from the right!!!

or left.

:-)

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[John Larson]

AOPA has every reason to inflate the numbers. I wonder what the FAA says.


"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
> AOPA says 618K pilots and 88K instructors.
>
> http://aopa2.org/special/newsroom/stats/pilots.html
>
>
> "John Larson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I bet there aren't even that many ,,,
>>
>>
>> "john smith" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> > Matt Barrow wrote:
>> >> I did say that your post was rather silly, posting it to a Newsgroup
> that
>> >> is
>> >> frequented by maybe 100-200 pilots out of the 750,000 active. It
> sounded
>> >> like whining to me.
>> >
>> > Where did you get the 750k number?
>> > There haven't been that many active pilots.
>> > The number I heard last year was around 600k.
>>
>>
>
>

[John Larson]

That's a good point.


"Skywise" > wrote in message
...
> "John Larson" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Blah blah blah.
>>
>> It's whining if one does not take responsibility for ones irresponsible
>> actions. I include myself, if you don't include yourself or the original
>> poster, then whatever.
>>
>> I repeat that it's best to keep such mistakes to oneself unless one is
>> thick-skinned enough to take the heat on a newsgroup.
> <Snipola>
>
> And exactly why should anyone give him any 'heat' at all?
>
> Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.
>
> Brian
> --
> http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
>
> Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
> Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
>
> Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[John Larson]

That is an excellent point. I have had a couple of do-gooder posters chew me
out for maintaining that this guy was accusing someone of the board of
stealing his gasoline - yet clearly these guys didn't take the time to read
the original posters Subject line.

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> news:4tXHe.214775$_o.8372@attbi_s71...
>> > >> Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the
>> three
>> > >> years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit
>> card
>> > >> companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They
>> will
>> > >> screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
>> > > nickel.
>> > >
>> > > Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the
> OP?
>> >
>> > Well, we may both be whining, but we're certainly seeing the issue from
>> > different ends of the telescope.
>>
>>
>> I'm whining? I adhere to contracts and absorb my losses and don't
> advertise
>> them AND I'M WHINING?
>
> BTW, read the SUBJECT on this thread one more time.
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> AOPA has every reason to inflate the numbers. I wonder what the FAA says.

lol...

AOPA doesn't make up those numbers. They are just putting the official FAA
numbers on a web site for you.

In other words, when "AOPA says 618K", what that really means is "the FAA
says 618K".

Duh.

You won your bet (618K is less than 750K), but you still see a need to
dispute the facts. Even when you obviously don't understand where the facts
being presented are coming from. Very funny.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> That is an excellent point.

What is?

> I have had a couple of do-gooder posters chew me out for maintaining that
> this guy was accusing someone of the board of stealing his gasoline

A well-deserved chewing out, IMHO.

> - yet clearly these guys didn't take the time to read the original posters
> Subject line.

Please quote the portion of the subject line that represents an accusation
of theft.

Pete

[John Larson]

I'll bite. (And without the pointless childish petulant wording, i.e "lol,
Duh.")

If the AOPA puts the information out, and claims it is their information, it
comes from the AOPA.

Is that fair?


"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "John Larson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> AOPA has every reason to inflate the numbers. I wonder what the FAA says.
>
> lol...
>
> AOPA doesn't make up those numbers. They are just putting the official
> FAA numbers on a web site for you.
>
> In other words, when "AOPA says 618K", what that really means is "the FAA
> says 618K".
>
> Duh.
>
> You won your bet (618K is less than 750K), but you still see a need to
> dispute the facts. Even when you obviously don't understand where the
> facts being presented are coming from. Very funny.
>
> Pete
>

[John Larson]

It's implied, just like most of the crap on this board.

Do you understand now?


"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "John Larson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That is an excellent point.
>
> What is?
>
>> I have had a couple of do-gooder posters chew me out for maintaining that
>> this guy was accusing someone of the board of stealing his gasoline
>
> A well-deserved chewing out, IMHO.
>
>> - yet clearly these guys didn't take the time to read the original
>> posters Subject line.
>
> Please quote the portion of the subject line that represents an accusation
> of theft.
>
> Pete
>

[Montblack]

("Matt Barrow" wrote)
> Maybe if you'd read more of my posts before shooting your mouth off you'd
> realize that.


I suggest his earlier posts... as in not this past year.


Montblack

[Peter Duniho]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> I'll bite. (And without the pointless childish petulant wording, i.e "lol,
> Duh.")

lol. Duh. Not words one uses every day, of course...but they seemed
perfectly at home replying to your post.

> If the AOPA puts the information out, and claims it is their information,
> it comes from the AOPA.

"Claims it is their information"? I suppose by "claims", you're referring
to the spot right at the top of the web page where it says "Source: FAA".
Is that the claim you're talking about?

> Is that fair?

If AOPA actually did all the things you said they did, then it'd be fair to
say it comes from AOPA. But they didn't, so it's not.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> It's implied, just like most of the crap on this board.

Where is it implied? What part of the subject line implies theft?

> Do you understand now?

Nope.

[Montblack]

("John Larson" wrote)
> I'll bite. (And without the pointless childish petulant wording, i.e "lol,
> Duh.")


Whatever.


Montblack

[George Patterson]

John Larson wrote:
> It's implied, just like most of the crap on this board.

You sound like my first wife. She could read anything into "hello."

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Dave Butler]

George Patterson wrote:
> John Larson wrote:
>
>> It's implied, just like most of the crap on this board.
>
>
> You sound like my first wife. She could read anything into "hello."

Har! Now that we've declined into mostly he-said-she-said, you're-stupid,
did-too/did-not and why-can't-you-read, this one at least got me to laugh. I
think I married her after you. Thanks, George.

Dave

[Matt Barrow]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> AOPA has every reason to inflate the numbers. I wonder what the FAA says.
>

IIUC, those ARE the FAA's numbers. From the FAA databases I'd guess.

>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> > AOPA says 618K pilots and 88K instructors.
> >
> > http://aopa2.org/special/newsroom/stats/pilots.html
> >
> >
> > "John Larson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> I bet there aren't even that many ,,,
>

[Matt Barrow]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:2w7Ie.7483$2y2.628@trndny02...
> John Larson wrote:
> > It's implied, just like most of the crap on this board.
>
> You sound like my first wife. She could read anything into "hello."
>

Gee, George...what do you make of the SUBJECT, especially after reading the
OP?

[Matt Barrow]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1123092869.615774@sj-nntpcache-5...
> George Patterson wrote:
> > John Larson wrote:
> >
> >> It's implied, just like most of the crap on this board.
> >
> >
> > You sound like my first wife. She could read anything into "hello."
>
> Har! Now that we've declined into mostly he-said-she-said, you're-stupid,
> did-too/did-not and why-can't-you-read, this one at least got me to laugh.
I
> think I married her after you. Thanks, George.
>

Funny...I'm not seeing "He said, she said", but I DO see a lot of direct
quotations.

And BTW, the only thing worse than a worn out used car is a used....

[Matt Barrow]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> I'll bite. (And without the pointless childish petulant wording, i.e "lol,
> Duh.")
>
> If the AOPA puts the information out, and claims it is their information,
it
> comes from the AOPA.
>
> Is that fair?
>

They cite FAR's; are those theirs, too? :~)

[Matt Barrow]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("John Larson" wrote)
> > I'll bite. (And without the pointless childish petulant wording, i.e
"lol,
> > Duh.")
>
>
> Whatever.
>

Whomever!

[Matt Barrow]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Matt Barrow" wrote)
> > Maybe if you'd read more of my posts before shooting your mouth off
you'd
> > realize that.
>
>
> I suggest his earlier posts... as in not this past year.
>

You're one of those.

[George Patterson]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> And BTW, the only thing worse than a worn out used car is a used....

Oh it's great! Once you get past the used part.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[George Patterson]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> Gee, George...what do you make of the SUBJECT, especially after reading the
> OP?

As I recall, the OP stated that he felt the fillup on his dime was accidental.
Seems to me that he went out of his way to avoid accusing anyone of stealing.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[xyzzy]

Matt Barrow wrote:

> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>news:4tXHe.214775$_o.8372@attbi_s71...
>>
>>>>>Having been screwed multiple times by credit card companies in the
>>
>>three
>>
>>>>>years we've been a vendor (at the hotel), I can tell you that credit
>>
>>card
>>
>>>>>companies are run by the biggest pack of scum on the planet. They
>>
>>will
>>
>>>>>screw anyone and everyone, without provocation or excuse, to make a
>>>>
>>>>nickel.
>>>>
>>>>Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the
>
> OP?
>
>>>Well, we may both be whining, but we're certainly seeing the issue from
>>>different ends of the telescope.
>>
>>
>>I'm whining? I adhere to contracts and absorb my losses and don't
>
> advertise
>
>>them AND I'M WHINING?
>
>
> BTW, read the SUBJECT on this thread one more time.
>
>

Direct quote from the post that started this thread:

....If it was you that
accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
charges on your card please contact me....


What part of "accidently" did you and the other self-righteous people
who accuse this guy of accusing others of stealing, do you not understand?

[Matt Barrow]

"John Larson" > wrote in message
...
> That's a good point.

Why would that be bullying, telling him to "grow up"?

>
>
> "Skywise" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "John Larson" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> >> Blah blah blah.
> >>
> >> It's whining if one does not take responsibility for ones irresponsible
> >> actions. I include myself, if you don't include yourself or the
original
> >> poster, then whatever.
> >>
> >> I repeat that it's best to keep such mistakes to oneself unless one is
> >> thick-skinned enough to take the heat on a newsgroup.
> > <Snipola>
> >
> > And exactly why should anyone give him any 'heat' at all?

Um...maybe because he made an accusation of theft which was a result of
misusing a gas pump?

A few years ago I left my garage unlocked and someone stole two very nice
bikes. That was pretty stuid of me. Or maybe I should have posted a request
for return of the bikes on rec.bicycles? Or better yet, put an ad in the
local paper? And my hometown isn't quite 20,000 people, most of whom get the
local paper?

> > Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.

That's a leap!

[Montblack]

("George Patterson" wrote)
> Oh it's great! Once you get past the used part.


Hehehe.


Montblack

[Matt Barrow]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:an8Ie.17431$QX2.16930@trndny01...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
> >
> > Gee, George...what do you make of the SUBJECT, especially after reading
the
> > OP?
>
> As I recall, the OP stated that he felt the fillup on his dime was
accidental.
> Seems to me that he went out of his way to avoid accusing anyone of
stealing.

And as one person pointed out: "Accidental?". Who'd a thunk someone
accidentally put 150 gallons of gas in his plane by accident?

Sounds like something your mother would say to get you to confess (i.e.,
"Just tell the truth and you won't get in trouble").

Sorry, but putting such a ludicrous post in a world-wide newsgroup...well,
I'm quite skeptical.

As the old adage: "Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining".

[Matt Barrow]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("George Patterson" wrote)
> > Oh it's great! Once you get past the used part.
>
>
> Hehehe.
>
>
Hmmm....well broken in, huh?

Matt

(First time was the charm...26 years and she hasn't killed me YET!)

[Matt Barrow]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote:
>
> > Okay you lurkers...count off from the right!!!
>
> or left.
>
> :-)
One, two, five...
Three, sir!
Three..

[Skywise]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in
:

>
> "John Larson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's a good point.
>
> Why would that be bullying, telling him to "grow up"?
>
>>
>>
>> "Skywise" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > "John Larson" > wrote in
>> > :
>> >
>> >> Blah blah blah.
>> >>
>> >> It's whining if one does not take responsibility for ones
>> >> irresponsible actions. I include myself, if you don't include
>> >> yourself or the
> original
>> >> poster, then whatever.
>> >>
>> >> I repeat that it's best to keep such mistakes to oneself unless one
>> >> is thick-skinned enough to take the heat on a newsgroup.
>> > <Snipola>
>> >
>> > And exactly why should anyone give him any 'heat' at all?
>
> Um...maybe because he made an accusation of theft which was a result of
> misusing a gas pump?
>
> A few years ago I left my garage unlocked and someone stole two very
> nice bikes. That was pretty stuid of me. Or maybe I should have posted a
> request for return of the bikes on rec.bicycles? Or better yet, put an
> ad in the local paper? And my hometown isn't quite 20,000 people, most
> of whom get the local paper?
>
>> > Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.
>
> That's a leap!

Perhaps you would have preferred he said something like,

"Hey, whoever the ******* is that stole gas using my credit
card, I'm gonna ****ing hunt you down and beat the livin'
**** outta you till you give me my money back!" hmmm?

With all the self-righteous testosterone laden ego's around
here I'm beginning to wonder if Skylune doesn't have a point.
If this is the way GA pilots behave I'll have to rethink my
ambitions of becoming one.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[John]

abripl wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
> Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
> fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after me
> continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of about
> $50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
> accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
> corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
> charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660

Now that's been a few days, has the charge amount POSTED to your credit
card account? Is it an even number like $200 or is it a more realistic
number like $197.34 ?

[Matt Barrow]

"Skywise" > wrote in message
...
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in
> :
> >
> >> > Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.
> >
> > That's a leap!
>
> Perhaps you would have preferred he said something like,
>
> "Hey, whoever the ******* is that stole gas using my credit
> card, I'm gonna ****ing hunt you down and beat the livin'
> **** outta you till you give me my money back!" hmmm?
>

Go from a leap to a non-sequitur.

> With all the self-righteous testosterone laden ego's around
> here I'm beginning to wonder if Skylune doesn't have a point.
> If this is the way GA pilots behave I'll have to rethink my
> ambitions of becoming one.

If you can't think and plan (or handle a gas pump) and respond to a minor
crisis and better than the OP, you better not.

[Matt Barrow]

"John" > wrote in message ...
> abripl wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
> > Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
> > fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after me
> > continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of about
> > $50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
> > accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
> > corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
> > charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660
>
> Now that's been a few days, has the charge amount POSTED to your credit
> card account? Is it an even number like $200 or is it a more realistic
> number like $197.34 ?

Question is: How did he know, as soon as he did (a matter of hours), that
someone pumped gas on his card?

[Jay Honeck]

>> > Now you're coming off as the whiney one. Birds of a feather with the
>> > OP?
>>
>> Well, we may both be whining, but we're certainly seeing the issue from
>> different ends of the telescope.
>
> I'm whining? I adhere to contracts and absorb my losses and don't
> advertise
> them AND I'M WHINING?

No, I didn't say you were whining -- you're bitching. There's a difference.

It's me and the *other* poster you were referring to that are whining. Keep
up, will ya?

:-)

> A adult would say what happened and ask "What should I do? Should I call
> the
> CC company? Talk to the FBO?"
>
> Jay, where are your great "conservative values"? :~)

You're not following this thread well, Matt. I'm not advocating that the OP
do ANYTHING but suck it up and pay the bill. I *am* saying that if he calls
the CC company, and gets the charge reversed, they WILL charge back the
completely innocent FBO. That's the way they do things, and the FBO will be
totally screwed.

>> I, on the other hand, am speaking from experience with dishonest card
>> holders who dispute legitimate charges, and are backed up by their
>> criminally complicit credit card companies.
>
> Geez, listen to yourself. What does that tangent have to do with his case.

Because I know what I'm talking about. If he reports this as a fraudulent
charge, the perpetrator will NOT be the one hurt. Rather, the FBO will be
charged back, and harmed for doing nothing but offering gasoline service to
his customers. THAT is a travesty, but that is the way CC companies do
business.

And the FBO will be completely powerless to dispute the chargeback.

>> Bottom line: CC companies NEVER lose.
>
> They not supposed to lose, they're third parties to the transaction.
>
> If they're that bad, why not stop accepting CC's?

I have already thrown American Express out of the hotel, but that was pretty
easy, since they are such a marginal card. I would happily throw the others
out in a heartbeat, if I could do so without committing financial suicide.

Unfortunately, our revenue is 10 to 1 credit/debit cards versus cash, so
they've got me -- and millions of honest vendors like me -- over a
barbed-wire barrel...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John]

Matt Barrow wrote:

> "John" > wrote in message ...
> > abripl wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
> > > Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
> > > fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after me
> > > continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of about
> > > $50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
> > > accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
> > > corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
> > > charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660
> >
> > Now that's been a few days, has the charge amount POSTED to your credit
> > card account? Is it an even number like $200 or is it a more realistic
> > number like $197.34 ?
>
> Question is: How did he know, as soon as he did (a matter of hours), that
> someone pumped gas on his card?

As Ted wrote in another post, the OP probably checked his account online or
even via telephone. MBNA credit cards (such as AOPA credit card) even show
authorizations in real time so it would show online immediately after the
transaction. Some transactions (like hotel rooms, rental cars, and gas
purchases) authorize a higher amount off the bat then will eventually be
posted, so that's why I asked my questions. You only pay what actually POSTS,
which might vary from what can be authorized. So it is possible the OP wasn't
actually charged anything higher than what he expected at the time of purchase.

[Jay Beckman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:_ggIe.235687$xm3.151594@attbi_s21...

<SNIP>
> Unfortunately, our revenue is 10 to 1 credit/debit cards versus cash, so
> they've got me -- and millions of honest vendors like me -- over a
> barbed-wire barrel...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"


Jay H,

Just curious but why do you lump Debit Cards with Credit Cards...

Aren't Debit Cards considered more like cash (or at least a check) since
your account is immediately tapped for the amount? Is there some evil
lurking in the background of Debit Cards of which most people are not aware?

Just asking since I'm not a merchant/vendor of any kind...

Jay B

[Skywise]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in news:43gIe.125
:

>
> "Skywise" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in
>> :
>> >
>> >> > Sounds more like childish playground bullying to me.
>> >
>> > That's a leap!
>>
>> Perhaps you would have preferred he said something like,
>>
>> "Hey, whoever the ******* is that stole gas using my credit
>> card, I'm gonna ****ing hunt you down and beat the livin'
>> **** outta you till you give me my money back!" hmmm?
>>
>
> Go from a leap to a non-sequitur.
>
>> With all the self-righteous testosterone laden ego's around
>> here I'm beginning to wonder if Skylune doesn't have a point.
>> If this is the way GA pilots behave I'll have to rethink my
>> ambitions of becoming one.
>
> If you can't think and plan (or handle a gas pump) and respond to a minor
> crisis and better than the OP, you better not.

My skill's are not the issue.

I don't want to be associated with a group of people who feel the
need to grind other poeple into the ground just to make themselves
feel better.

I don't need your "my dick is bigger than your dick" attitude.

PLONK!

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Jay Honeck]

> Just curious but why do you lump Debit Cards with Credit Cards...

Although the danger of charge-back with a debit card is not there (presuming
that we ran it properly) the per-usage fees to the vendor (me!) are four or
five times higher. That adds up in a hurry.

Vendors get charged a monthly fee and a per-usage fee for accepting credit
cards, on several levels. The bank gets their cut, VISA/MC gets their
cut -- and their percentage varies with a bewildering series of credit/debit
card types.

An Asian guest, for example, using his Visa card from Japan, may cost me ten
times what it costs me to run YOUR credit card. The fees are all automatic,
without explanation (unless you have the secret decoder ring), and add up in
a hurry.

Why? Because VISA/MC can get away with it. For some reason, accepting a
foreigner's VISA card is considered a bigger risk, so they charge ME more.

And you'd be astounded -- no, scared -- to know how many people's credit
cards come back "declined" on a preauthorization of less than $100. There
are millions of people out there running around with their credit cards
maxed out, living on the ragged edge of bankruptcy.

And it's not always people you'd expect. We're talking doctors, lawyers --
you name it. It's amazing, and sad.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> And you'd be astounded -- no, scared -- to know how many people's credit
> cards come back "declined" on a preauthorization of less than $100. There
> are millions of people out there running around with their credit cards
> maxed out, living on the ragged edge of bankruptcy.

There could be any number of reasons for a decline, Jay. You, as a
merchant, are not privy to the reason for the decline.

As a business traveler, I once had a rental car agency accidentally
authorize my card for $25,000, instead of $250. and the credit card company
(Amex) would not authorize any additional charges until they had either a)
the legitimate charge come through, or b) an explanation for the this
incredibly high authorization request. This was brought to my attention by
a "decline" at a hotel merchant.

A decline also occurs when a consumer receives a new card with a new
expiration date, and activates this card but forgets to put the new one in
his wallet. Lived that one, too.

For you to make that wild-assed assumption about millions of people based
on eight little letters (or the equivalent numeric code).... sheesh.

--
Peter

[David Lesher]

What no one has broached here is how to CYA on future automagic gas purchases.

Do these pumps issue a printed receipt?

Is there some test you can run to be sure it's stopped charging you? (Such
as trying to pump again, and getting prompted for the CCard?)

Can you get your credit card programmed to have a transaction dollar limit?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Matt Barrow]

"John" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Matt Barrow wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just returned from Oshkosh home to Pierre SD. I filled up at Dodge
> > > > Center MN this AM and not being familiar with the self serve gas
> > > > fillup, I did not hang up the pump handle properly. Somebody after
me
> > > > continued pumping another $150 on my credit card ($200 instead of
about
> > > > $50). My experimental only holds 35 gal bone dry. If it was you that
> > > > accidentally filled up that morning after me and don't see
> > > > corresponding "HARTLAND FUEL PRODUCTS - DODGE CENTER" credit card
> > > > charges on your card please contact me. Paul at 605-224-0660
> > >
> > > Now that's been a few days, has the charge amount POSTED to your
credit
> > > card account? Is it an even number like $200 or is it a more realistic
> > > number like $197.34 ?
> >
> > Question is: How did he know, as soon as he did (a matter of hours),
that
> > someone pumped gas on his card?
>
> As Ted wrote in another post, the OP probably checked his account online
or
> even via telephone. MBNA credit cards (such as AOPA credit card) even
show
> authorizations in real time so it would show online immediately after the
> transaction. Some transactions (like hotel rooms, rental cars, and gas
> purchases) authorize a higher amount off the bat then will eventually be
> posted, so that's why I asked my questions. You only pay what actually
POSTS,
> which might vary from what can be authorized. So it is possible the OP
wasn't
> actually charged anything higher than what he expected at the time of
purchase.

That'd work. So are you saying the $200 is the AUTHORIZATION amount, not the
TRANSACTION amount? I've seen delays on those of up to a day or two. I
suspect that an FBO that has a full time connection would have better timing
on the data than one whose system has to do a modem dialup and then batch
transactions at end of day/overnight.

[xyzzy]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> Jay, where are your great "conservative values"? :~)

I sure am glad we have an enforcer here to keep everyone ideologically
in line.

[Peter Duniho]

"David Lesher" > wrote in message
...
> What no one has broached here is how to CYA on future automagic gas
> purchases.
>
> Do these pumps issue a printed receipt?

Yes.

> Is there some test you can run to be sure it's stopped charging you? (Such
> as trying to pump again, and getting prompted for the CCard?)

Yes. Look for your receipt.

The funny thing is, whenever I pump from one of these self-serve pumps,
almost every time there's the previous customer's receipt dangling from the
printer. I always take my receipt, but apparently I'm one of the few, the
proud, the record keepers.

> Can you get your credit card programmed to have a transaction dollar
> limit?

IMHO, you'd have to have a card used only for buying gas for that to work.
However much gas you're buying, it's likely you use the card for any number
of other purchases that exceed the cost of the gas. This is true whether
you're buying gas for a Cub or a Citation.

Pete

[Matt Barrow]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message >
> I had a gas pump that couldn't read my card. It said
> something like "Slide card through slot quickly," which is
> what I did on the second attempt. It still failed. Needing
> gas, I ran the card through again, with another failure. I
> gave up, went down the street and bought gas at the next
> station, figuring the reader was bad. Apparently, the three
> attempts looked suspicious, and they shut my card down with
> their automatic fraud detection software. My wife and I
> both had declines before we figured it out.

If it failed to read your card, how did it know it was YOUR card?

One of the first times I used a self-service avgas pump, the damn machine
just flat out would not accept my card (AMEX). I swiped it about six or
seven times and it kept coming back NOT VALID or something.

I was really starting to lose my temper (you folks DO realize I have a
temper, don't you? Good.) when I looked at the card and noticed...it was my
drivers license, not my AMEX card.

Opps!


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[George Patterson]

David Lesher wrote:
> What no one has broached here is how to CYA on future automagic gas purchases.
>
> Do these pumps issue a printed receipt?

The ones I've used do.

> Is there some test you can run to be sure it's stopped charging you? (Such
> as trying to pump again, and getting prompted for the CCard?)

I've done this at Sky Manor. The first prompt is an instruction to ground the
aircraft. I will hit enough buttons to display that prompt.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Jay Honeck]

> There could be any number of reasons for a decline, Jay. You, as a
> merchant, are not privy to the reason for the decline.

Quite true.

> For you to make that wild-assed assumption about millions of people based
> on eight little letters (or the equivalent numeric code).... sheesh.

My assumptions are based on years of experience, both in the hotel biz
as well as sitting on the board of directors of a credit union, with
decision-making authority over loan approvals. You would not believe
the level of debt that many of your fellow citizens are carrying.

My only point is this: Don't ever judge a book by its cover. The guy
you see driving the Lexus, flying the Baron, and living in the mansion
is not necessarily what you think he is. I've denied loans to people
like him because he didn't really own anything -- everything was
financed by others, and in actuality he didn't have a pot to pee in.

Conversely, the scruffy-looking dirt-bag driving a rusty old purple
Nissan pickup just *might* be okay!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Conversely, the scruffy-looking dirt-bag driving a rusty old purple
> Nissan pickup just *might* be okay!

I doubt that.

Unless, *possibly*, there's a huge tank of gas sitting in the truck bed.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Conversely, the scruffy-looking dirt-bag driving a rusty old purple
>> Nissan pickup just *might* be okay!
>
> I doubt that.
>
> Unless, *possibly*, there's a huge tank of gas sitting in the truck bed.

Hee hee! Ahem.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Peter R." > wrote

> There could be any number of reasons for a decline, Jay. You, as a
> merchant, are not privy to the reason for the decline.

I'll go along with that, myself. I had a gas charge declined, but I don't
remember why, exactly. It was something to do with the company seeing
charges that made them think something suspicious was happening with the
card. Made me mad as h*ll, at first, but was easily fixed with a phone
call.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

Paul,
Keep us updated on the outcome. It is most likely that you would
not hear from the individual who used the pump after you. I agree that
it hardly cost you anything but your time to post here. At the
minimum, your experience will help others to be more careful in using
self service pump.
Years ago, I accidently left a barely used $50 copy card in the
copying machine. I had nobody but myself to blame for loss. I am
pretty sure that if I had known someone who did the same thing before,
I would have been more careful.
When we first started using the self sevice pump, at one time, we
forget to reset the meter and was quite concerned in seeing the meter
added up our purchase to the previous one. We went to talk to the FBO
and was told not to worry. He explained to us that although the meter
was not reset, the system had a way of recording the exact purchase.
We checked our credit card billing later and found that this was the
case.
Although most self service station let you enter the estimated
dollars or gallons that you want to purchase, I recall having used some
which did not offer this option. Again, most stations issued a
receipt but I have come across some that did not give any either. In
any case, we will be more careful when hanging up the pump.
Thank you for posting your experience here.

Hai Longworth

[Jay Honeck]

>> There could be any number of reasons for a decline, Jay. You, as a
>> merchant, are not privy to the reason for the decline.
>
> I'll go along with that, myself. I had a gas charge declined, but I don't
> remember why, exactly. It was something to do with the company seeing
> charges that made them think something suspicious was happening with the
> card. Made me mad as h*ll, at first, but was easily fixed with a phone
> call.

It's kinda funny, I guess, but in some sort of a "paybacks are hell"
category we just this morning had our credit card declined for a gas fill up
at Grand Glaize Airport, in Missouri, during the mass departure from the
Cherokee Pilots Association fly-in!

I still haven't got to the bottom of it (we never carry a balance) but I
clearly must have caused a "ripple in The Force" by talking about this issue
on Usenet!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> It's kinda funny, I guess, but in some sort of a "paybacks are hell"
> category we just this morning had our credit card declined for a gas fill
up
> at Grand Glaize Airport, in Missouri, during the mass departure from the
> Cherokee Pilots Association fly-in!
>
> I still haven't got to the bottom of it (we never carry a balance) but I
> clearly must have caused a "ripple in The Force" by talking about this
issue
> on Usenet!

"The Dark Side is strong, in this one"

<Chuckle.> Give them a call. They should be able to tell you exactly what
the problem was.
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> > It's kinda funny, I guess, but in some sort of a "paybacks are hell"
> > category we just this morning had our credit card declined for a gas fill
> up
> > at Grand Glaize Airport, in Missouri, during the mass departure from the
> > Cherokee Pilots Association fly-in!
> >
> > I still haven't got to the bottom of it (we never carry a balance) but I
> > clearly must have caused a "ripple in The Force" by talking about this
> issue
> > on Usenet!
>
> "The Dark Side is strong, in this one"
>
> <Chuckle.> Give them a call. They should be able to tell you exactly what
> the problem was.

Just to follow up -- it turned out that Mary had not "activated" her
new card, so Visa "declined" the charge. (Which is bizarre, since she
swears she's been using it, and I've got the bills to prove it!)

If I had charged the gas on my card (same account, slightly different
number), it would have worked just fine, according to Visa.

Strange crap does happen, from time to time.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>Unfortunately, our revenue is 10 to 1 credit/debit cards versus cash, so
>they've got me -- and millions of honest vendors like me -- over a
>barbed-wire barrel...
>
>
Jay's exactly right. The CC companies don't lose. Someone said
something like "you know how much the CC companies lose to fraud each
year". Guess what, the CC companies don't lose a penny to fraud. The
costs that can't be passed back to a vendor (who, BTW pays a 2-4%
premium on every transaction) gets passed on to the CC holders in the
form of high interest rates and fees. Trust me, the CC companies would
not be in business if they weren't turning a profit.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759