Arizona pilot training

[jamoran]

I live near the TFD VOR and E68 or EStrella sail port but work a few
miles south of SDL....

looking to complete private training anyone have any recommendations

is best e-mail plain text mail only please
JOHN

[Jay Beckman]

"jamoran" > wrote in message
...
>I live near the TFD VOR and E68 or EStrella sail port but work a few miles
>south of SDL....
>
> looking to complete private training anyone have any recommendations
>
> is best e-mail plain text mail only please
> JOHN

Hi John,

Tailwind Flight Centre at Chandler Muni is a small operation but has good
(very good) Cessna 172s (a couple of M and N models as well as 3 fairly new
SPs all with the NAV II IFR package.) Chandler Air Center does the Piper
thing (but they have recently added a new 172SP to their fleet as well...)

Tailwind is in a state of change right now as they just lost three good
instructors to regional airline work (so I'm told...) but they have replaced
two of them and I'm told they are recruiting for two more CFIs to bring
their staff to a total of 6. They are an authorized Cessna Pilot Center
using the King/Cessna curriculum and materials.

Another option is Angel Air at Stellar Airpark (northeast corner of the
field) and they are a Cessna Pilot Center as well.

HTH,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Thomas Borchert]

Jamoran,

I have rented from Arizona Flightworks at SDL. They seemed to be a very
solid outfit.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Chris Schmelzer]

In article <_tdHe.221981$Qo.185327@fed1read01>,
"Jay Beckman" > wrote:

> "jamoran" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I live near the TFD VOR and E68 or EStrella sail port but work a few miles
> >south of SDL....
> >
> > looking to complete private training anyone have any recommendations
> >
> > is best e-mail plain text mail only please
> > JOHN
>
> Hi John,
>
> Tailwind Flight Centre at Chandler Muni is a small operation but has good
> (very good) Cessna 172s (a couple of M and N models as well as 3 fairly new
> SPs all with the NAV II IFR package.) Chandler Air Center does the Piper
> thing (but they have recently added a new 172SP to their fleet as well...)
>
> Tailwind is in a state of change right now as they just lost three good
> instructors to regional airline work (so I'm told...) but they have replaced
> two of them and I'm told they are recruiting for two more CFIs to bring
> their staff to a total of 6. They are an authorized Cessna Pilot Center
> using the King/Cessna curriculum and materials.
>


What does Tailwind charge for 172 time?

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

[Jay Beckman]

"Chris Schmelzer" > wrote in message
...

> What does Tailwind charge for 172 time?
>
> --
> Chris Schmelzer, MD
> Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
> University of Michigan Hospitals
> Ann Arbor, MI

Unfortunately, they just bumped the hourly rate up to $110/hr a couple of
weeks ago.

IMO, it's still a competitive price per hour (IIRC, Chandler Air rents their
new SP for $120-125/hr...) but it's fueling my interest in flying clubs
right now.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ
(Former MI Resident, FWIW...)

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jay Beckman wrote:
> Unfortunately, they just bumped the hourly rate up to $110/hr a couple of
> weeks ago.
>
> IMO, it's still a competitive price per hour (IIRC, Chandler Air rents their
> new SP for $120-125/hr...) but it's fueling my interest in flying clubs
> right now.


Good God! Here I was feeling sorry for myself having to pay $85-95 an hour,
depending on whether the bird had GPS or not. I can remember paying $37.50 an
hour for a C-172 years ago.

I feel your pain.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[W P Dixon]

Yep makes me really appreciate a 40/hr Champ! ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
. com...
> Jay Beckman wrote:
>> Unfortunately, they just bumped the hourly rate up to $110/hr a couple of
>> weeks ago.
>>
>> IMO, it's still a competitive price per hour (IIRC, Chandler Air rents
>> their
>> new SP for $120-125/hr...) but it's fueling my interest in flying clubs
>> right now.
>
>
> Good God! Here I was feeling sorry for myself having to pay $85-95 an
> hour, depending on whether the bird had GPS or not. I can remember paying
> $37.50 an hour for a C-172 years ago.
>
> I feel your pain.
>
>
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
. com...
> Jay Beckman wrote:
> > Unfortunately, they just bumped the hourly rate up to $110/hr a couple
of
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > IMO, it's still a competitive price per hour (IIRC, Chandler Air rents
their
> > new SP for $120-125/hr...) but it's fueling my interest in flying clubs
> > right now.
>
>
> Good God! Here I was feeling sorry for myself having to pay $85-95 an
hour,
> depending on whether the bird had GPS or not. I can remember paying
$37.50 an
> hour for a C-172 years ago.
>

When was that?

I remember paying $18 (1979, club, or $22 from the FBO...WET) and that was
for fairly new stuff.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:LPDHe.236272$Qo.3454@fed1read01...
> "Chris Schmelzer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > What does Tailwind charge for 172 time?
> >
>
> Unfortunately, they just bumped the hourly rate up to $110/hr a couple of
> weeks ago.
>
> IMO, it's still a competitive price per hour (IIRC, Chandler Air rents
their
> new SP for $120-125/hr...) but it's fueling my interest in flying clubs
> right now.

Geezmineeze!! $84-96 for 172's here, and those are 2001's down to 1996's.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Karl-Heinz Kuenzel]

To comfort you all a little, I have to pay here in Germany about $170/h for
a C172 ...

K.-H.

[[email protected]]

"W P Dixon" > wrote:
> Yep makes me really appreciate a 40/hr Champ! ;)

Was just going to add that you don't HAVE to learn to fly in a
172**SP**! I realize that's the one in the videos that Cessna Pilot
Centers use in their training ... what great marketing strategy, huh?
"Let's encourage customers to spend almost twice as much as they have
to." An older, less-expensive-to-rent C172 or even a C152 (depending on
what you and your CFI weigh) will do just fine. You don't need a GPS or
AutoPilot or some of the other high-tech gadgets in the SP to learn how
to fly. IMO, that's just paying through the nose for stuff throughout
the training that you won't use until much later. Of course, if money is
no object ...

[Matt Barrow]

> wrote in message news:Xmnushal8y-
> Was just going to add that you don't HAVE to learn to fly in a
> 172**SP**! I realize that's the one in the videos that Cessna Pilot
> Centers use in their training ... what great marketing strategy, huh?
> "Let's encourage customers to spend almost twice as much as they have
> to." An older, less-expensive-to-rent C172 or even a C152 (depending on
> what you and your CFI weigh) will do just fine. You don't need a GPS or
> AutoPilot or some of the other high-tech gadgets in the SP to learn how
> to fly.

Not every time, but these are tools best learned from the get-go.

> IMO, that's just paying through the nose for stuff throughout
> the training that you won't use until much later. Of course, if money is
> no object ...

And then, you can find the same plane for far less money...on the order of
$40/hr in some places. When you learn around a major metro area (Chandler is
a Phoenix 'burb), you can expect to pay LOTS more, especially when rented
through an FBO rather than a club.

I did my first 21 hrs in a 172, then went to a 182 because of my instructors
and my size; he was 6'3" about 225 and I'm 6'1", 205, mostly in the
shoulders and upper torso.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Jay Beckman]

> wrote in message
...
> "W P Dixon" > wrote:
>> Yep makes me really appreciate a 40/hr Champ! ;)
>
> Was just going to add that you don't HAVE to learn to fly in a
> 172**SP**! I realize that's the one in the videos that Cessna Pilot
> Centers use in their training ... what great marketing strategy, huh?

Yes there is a marketing aspect to it. It is after all a CESSNA pilot
course.

> "Let's encourage customers to spend almost twice as much as they have
> to." An older, less-expensive-to-rent C172 or even a C152 (depending on
> what you and your CFI weigh) will do just fine. You don't need a GPS or
> AutoPilot or some of the other high-tech gadgets in the SP to learn how
> to fly. IMO, that's just paying through the nose for stuff throughout
> the training that you won't use until much later. Of course, if money is
> no object ...

Except when you get into a really oddball situation (like I did early on...)
where you are flying a C172M with an ASI calibrated in MPH ! Mental
gymnastics were the last thing I needed when all I wanted to do was remain
upright and headed in one general direction.

Personally, I think changing from 172M/Ns to SPs probably saved me money in
the long run becuase it became much more of a Read / Watch / Do without a
lot of interpolation or conversion. V-speeds, weights, etc, all translated
directly from PC screen to cockpit. The price difference (at the time) was
all of $15 an hour.

As far as the avionics go, I'm something of a gadget-geek anyways so I
didn't find the electronics all that intimidating. I was able to get beyond
simple "Direct To" pretty quickly.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>> Good God! Here I was feeling sorry for myself having to pay $85-95 an hour,
>> depending on whether the bird had GPS or not. I can remember paying $37.50
>> an hour for a C-172 years ago.
>>
>
> When was that?
>
> I remember paying $18 (1979, club, or $22 from the FBO...WET) and that was
> for fairly new stuff.


Back around the same time.... 1978-1980... somewhere in there. Even in our
club, we were never seeing prices as low as yours.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[[email protected]]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote:
> Except when you get into a really oddball situation (like I did early on...)
> where you are flying a C172M with an ASI calibrated in MPH ! Mental
> gymnastics were the last thing I needed when all I wanted to do was remain
> upright and headed in one general direction.

I understand.
But that's assuming that the Cessna Pilot Course is a necessity too,
which is not the case. I'm not knocking CPCs, but a skilled, structured,
in-tune CFI can take a motivated student that does his/her homework and
turn them into an equally competent pilot with or without the Cessna
Pilot Course. If you are not using the videos or trying to match the
Cessna course material, you learn the V-speeds, weights, fuel burn and
other info *for your airplane*. If you are able to use a C152, for
example, you're paying only a little more than half what it costs to
rent an SP ... over the 60-80 hours it takes to get your license, that
translates into a sizeable chunk of change.

> As far as the avionics go, I'm something of a gadget-geek anyways so I
> didn't find the electronics all that intimidating. I was able to get beyond
> simple "Direct To" pretty quickly.

I wasn't talking about being intimidated. I realize this is personal
opinion, but the point I was making was just that renting an SP to learn
how to fly is a lot of money for gadgets you don't need and don't have
to learn in the initial stages of flight training or for your license
*if* you have access to an older, less expensive but well maintained
Cessna or Piper. If the difference is only $15/hr, go for it; but if the
difference is $35-$50/hr (the diff between a C152 or older C172 and a
new C172SP), it's something to consider ... unless money is no object or
you must have the CPC.

Some CFIs insist that their students learn to navigate with a chart and
a VOR before showing them how to work the GPS anyway. Why pay for the
GPS and Autopilot if you aren't going to be use it?

Of course, comfort level is a consideration, too. If a person doesn't
feel comfortable or safe in an airplane without all the bells and
whistles, the C152 or older C172 won't work.

[Matt Barrow]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
. com...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
> >> Good God! Here I was feeling sorry for myself having to pay $85-95 an
hour,
> >> depending on whether the bird had GPS or not. I can remember paying
$37.50
> >> an hour for a C-172 years ago.
> >>
> >
> > When was that?
> >
> > I remember paying $18 (1979, club, or $22 from the FBO...WET) and that
was
> > for fairly new stuff.
>
>
> Back around the same time.... 1978-1980... somewhere in there. Even in
our
> club, we were never seeing prices as low as yours.
>

Mine was in Grand Junction, CO....where was yours?

I notice costs vary widely across the US, often by 50% or so.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>> Back around the same time.... 1978-1980... somewhere in there. Even in our
>> club, we were never seeing prices as low as yours.
>>
>
> Mine was in Grand Junction, CO....where was yours?
>
> I notice costs vary widely across the US, often by 50% or so.


Rock Hill, SC. It wasn't a club in the classic sense of the word. The FBO ran
it and gave about $8-10 discount per hour if you joined. The dues were only $20
/ month so it didn't take much to make it worthwhile. Also, they had a pretty
wide selection of aircraft. As I recall there were:

3 C-152
3 C-172
1 C-172RG
1 C-210
2 PA-28R-201 (one was a t-tail; one was straight)
1 PA-32-300

Sad to say, there were no twins for rent. But it seemed like a pretty good
deal, and everything was kept up. Since most were leasebacks, the avionics
varied a bit but all were good IFR birds except the C-152s. Our C-210s changed
from time to time; we had one equipped with a Robertson STOL kit, LORAN, and
weather radar that was incredible. Unfortunately, it didn't stick around all
that long. But you always had a choice and could pick something suitable.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Matt Barrow]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
. com...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
> >
> > Mine was in Grand Junction, CO....where was yours?
> >
> > I notice costs vary widely across the US, often by 50% or so.
>
>
> Rock Hill, SC. It wasn't a club in the classic sense of the word. The
FBO ran
> it and gave about $8-10 discount per hour if you joined. The dues were
only $20
> / month so it didn't take much to make it worthwhile. Also, they had a
pretty
> wide selection of aircraft. As I recall there were:
>
> 3 C-152
> 3 C-172
> 1 C-172RG
> 1 C-210
> 2 PA-28R-201 (one was a t-tail; one was straight)
> 1 PA-32-300
>
> Sad to say, there were no twins for rent. But it seemed like a pretty
good
> deal, and everything was kept up. Since most were leasebacks, the
avionics
> varied a bit but all were good IFR birds except the C-152s.

That might be the big difference between your club and mine. We had a
similar line up of about a dozen aircraft, mostly 152's, 172's and two 182's
(a NA and a T182), but only the 182's were IFR capable. The NA 182 was, AIR,
$32-34 an hour. It was also only, maybe a year old. The T182 was about
$40/hr and had an RNAV.