Air France Flt 358 vs. thunderstorms

[[email protected]]

I've read several reports online re the Air France crash at Toronto
that there were thunderstorms in the vicinity (one account said "right
over the airport") If so I'm curious why the captain didn't divert or
hold away from the storm until it passed (fuel status?). If there was a
storm nearby that could have caused massive wind shear and been the
reason for the jet going off the runway(?) It'll probably take
Transport Canada a while to investigate, but I wonder what consequences
this may have for the crew.

[Guy Elden Jr]

He reportedly aborted one landing attempt due to winds, then went
around for another try.

[Ray]

> If so I'm curious why the captain didn't divert or
> hold away from the storm until it passed (fuel status?). If there was a
> storm nearby that could have caused massive wind shear and been the
> reason for the jet going off the runway(?) It'll probably take
> Transport Canada a while to investigate, but I wonder what consequences
> this may have for the crew.

I think it's pretty unlikely that the crew will be sanctioned for
deciding to attempt a landing. If you listen to the liveATC feed of the
Toronto approach control -

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/cyyz/CYYZ-Toronto-Aug-02-05-1530.mp3
(start at the 23 minute mark)

you'll see that the weather appeared to be letting up. At one point the
controller tells another pilot that people have been landing at Toronto
"for the last hour or so," and also there are aircraft cleared for the
ILS approach directly before and after the Air France flight. To me it
sounds like by the time the accident occured an almost normal flow of
traffic into the airport had resumed.

- Ray

[Tim Epstein]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've read several reports online re the Air France crash at Toronto
> that there were thunderstorms in the vicinity (one account said "right
> over the airport") If so I'm curious why the captain didn't divert or
> hold away from the storm until it passed (fuel status?). If there was a
> storm nearby that could have caused massive wind shear and been the
> reason for the jet going off the runway(?) It'll probably take
> Transport Canada a while to investigate, but I wonder what consequences
> this may have for the crew.

According to the BBC, the President of Air France stated in a press
statement that "Flight 358 was the last aircraft to land before the airport
was closed due to poor weather conditions".

This is a false statement. I have heard the recording the of the Toronto ATC
at the time, and there were no plans to close the airport before the crash
of AF 358. In fact, two aircraft had been cleared to land behind AF 358, and
their clearance was cancelled due to the crash of AF358.

[Peter R.]

Tim Epstein > wrote:

> According to the BBC, the President of Air France stated in a press
> statement that "Flight 358 was the last aircraft to land before the airport
> was closed due to poor weather conditions".

The Airbus was the last aircraft to land before the airport was closed due
to rescue operations on and near the runway.

--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Tim Epstein]

ye
"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Tim Epstein > wrote:
>
>> According to the BBC, the President of Air France stated in a press
>> statement that "Flight 358 was the last aircraft to land before the
>> airport
>> was closed due to poor weather conditions".
>
> The Airbus was the last aircraft to land before the airport was closed due
> to rescue operations on and near the runway.

Yep, but that's not what the Air France cheif said. His implication was that
this accident was really bad luck, and that the airport was about to be
closed anyway, and that the accident flight just happend to be the last
flight in before the airport was closed.

[Peter R.]

Tim Epstein > wrote:

> "Peter R." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tim Epstein > wrote:
>>
>>> According to the BBC, the President of Air France stated in a press
>>> statement that "Flight 358 was the last aircraft to land before the
>>> airport
>>> was closed due to poor weather conditions".
>>
>> The Airbus was the last aircraft to land before the airport was closed due
>> to rescue operations on and near the runway.
>
> Yep, but that's not what the Air France cheif said. His implication was that
> this accident was really bad luck, and that the airport was about to be
> closed anyway, and that the accident flight just happend to be the last
> flight in before the airport was closed.

Sorry, I was attempting to make a joke.


--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Tim Epstein]

sorry Peter - one of my humor magnetos failed...



"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Tim Epstein > wrote:
>
>> "Peter R." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Tim Epstein > wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to the BBC, the President of Air France stated in a press
>>>> statement that "Flight 358 was the last aircraft to land before the
>>>> airport
>>>> was closed due to poor weather conditions".
>>>
>>> The Airbus was the last aircraft to land before the airport was closed
>>> due
>>> to rescue operations on and near the runway.
>>
>> Yep, but that's not what the Air France cheif said. His implication was
>> that
>> this accident was really bad luck, and that the airport was about to be
>> closed anyway, and that the accident flight just happend to be the last
>> flight in before the airport was closed.
>
> Sorry, I was attempting to make a joke.
>
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

[Matt Whiting]

Tim Epstein wrote:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>I've read several reports online re the Air France crash at Toronto
>>that there were thunderstorms in the vicinity (one account said "right
>>over the airport") If so I'm curious why the captain didn't divert or
>>hold away from the storm until it passed (fuel status?). If there was a
>>storm nearby that could have caused massive wind shear and been the
>>reason for the jet going off the runway(?) It'll probably take
>>Transport Canada a while to investigate, but I wonder what consequences
>>this may have for the crew.
>
>
> According to the BBC, the President of Air France stated in a press
> statement that "Flight 358 was the last aircraft to land before the airport
> was closed due to poor weather conditions".
>
> This is a false statement. I have heard the recording the of the Toronto ATC
> at the time, and there were no plans to close the airport before the crash
> of AF 358. In fact, two aircraft had been cleared to land behind AF 358, and
> their clearance was cancelled due to the crash of AF358.

Well, if you consider the smoke from the fire as weather... :-)

Matt

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Tim Epstein" > said:
>sorry Peter - one of my humor magnetos failed...

I hope you declared an urgent condition...


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
....the default behaviour should be *not* to **** up.
-- adb

[Tim Epstein]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Tim Epstein" > said:
>>sorry Peter - one of my humor magnetos failed...
>
> I hope you declared an urgent condition...

I declared a pun situation.

[Rick]

Tim Epstein wrote in message ...
>
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>> In a previous article, "Tim Epstein" > said:
>>>sorry Peter - one of my humor magnetos failed...
>>
>> I hope you declared an urgent condition...
>
>I declared a pun situation.

PUN PUN PUN!

- Rick