Non-instrument pilot manipulating controls while IFR

[Ted]

If an aircraft is operating IFR (part 91) with a current instr. rated
private pilot acting as PIC, can a non instrument rated private pilot
manipulate the controls? I don't see anything in the FARs that could
explicitly prohibit this type of operation.

For example if instrument rated pilot A takes a trip with non instr.
rated pilot B, could B take the controls during the trip? If so how
should such time be logged? I believe that person A would be Acting as
PIC but could not log the time as he is not sole control manipulator.
Person B is not rated so he probably couldn't log the time either, since
person A is not a instructor.

[buttman]

Acting as PIC and logging PIC are two completely diffrent things. You
must be rated, have medical, etc to ACT as PIC, but all you need to do
is be sole manipulator (or instructor) to log PIC.

So yes, the acting PIC can give the controlls to a non-instrument rated
pilot, and he can log PIC.

[Morgans]

"buttman" > wrote
>
> So yes, the acting PIC can give the controlls to a non-instrument rated
> pilot, and he can log PIC.

Darn "He's" and "Her's" and stuff. <g>

I think you meant He, as in the non-IFR rated co-pilot could log PIC time,
right?
--
Jim in NC

[Dave S]

Yes. I've done it.. but in my situation, we were in actual with a CFI
(Not a CFII) in the right seat. I've got about 20 hours of actual
instrument experience in this manner, but from a logging standpoint that
time is not "instrument instruction with a qualified instructor".

Logging in your situation could be interesting, based on peoples various
interpretations.

Dave

Ted wrote:
> If an aircraft is operating IFR (part 91) with a current instr. rated
> private pilot acting as PIC, can a non instrument rated private pilot
> manipulate the controls? I don't see anything in the FARs that could
> explicitly prohibit this type of operation.
>
> For example if instrument rated pilot A takes a trip with non instr.
> rated pilot B, could B take the controls during the trip? If so how
> should such time be logged? I believe that person A would be Acting as
> PIC but could not log the time as he is not sole control manipulator.
> Person B is not rated so he probably couldn't log the time either, since
> person A is not a instructor.

[Rich]

Anyone can manipulate the controls of any aircraft however in IMC they
can not log it as PIC, nor can they log it as flight time if they are
not a rated pilot.

A private Pilot can log PIC only if the flight is in VMC conditions.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 7 Aug 2005 22:43:24 -0700, "Rich" > wrote:


>
>A private Pilot can log PIC only if the flight is in VMC conditions.

That is NOT what the rules say, nor is it how the rules are interpreted.

=========================
14 CFR 61.51(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport,
recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time
only for that flight time during which that person—

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the
pilot is rated or has privileges;
=======================

Note that there is no mention of required flight conditions; type of flight
plan. The only requirement for the private pilot is that he be sole
manipulator of the controls; and that he be rated in the aircraft.

Aircraft ratings are defined in another paragraph and the one's listed are
the various category and class ratings with which I'm sure you're familiar.

So if the PP certificate states Airplane; Single Engine Land and he/she is
the sole manipulator of the controls of my Mooney; and we are IMC and on an
IFR flight plan; even though not qualified to act as PIC in the airplane,
he may certainly log PIC time.





Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Hilton]

Ted wrote:
> For example if instrument rated pilot A takes a trip with non instr.
> rated pilot B, could B take the controls during the trip? If so how
> should such time be logged? I believe that person A would be Acting as
> PIC but could not log the time as he is not sole control manipulator.
> Person B is not rated so he probably couldn't log the time either, since
> person A is not a instructor.

Firstly, it makes no difference if they are on a VFR, IFR, or no flight
plan. Assuming pilot A is not a CFI, pilot A cannot log the time. Pilot B
logs the time (assuming they are rated in the plane). Pilot B can log IMC
for time in the clouds even with no Instrument Rating. Pilot B needs no
medical, nor does he/she need the appropriate complex, hi-perf, or tailwheel
endorsements.

Summary: Pilot needs everything required to act as PIC (medical, rated,
endorsements, currency), but cannot log the time. Pilot B only needs to be
rated in the plane (e.g. ASEL) and can log the time as appropriate during
which he/she is the sole manipulator of the controls.

Hilton