Cooperation of F-4 & F-14 - oponions

[Amir]

In November 1982, I was coming back from a mission in Iraq, while I had

no air-to air missile, at this time the ground radar informed me of
approaching an F-1C Mirage to me .Because I had no air-to-air missile
so I decided to escape and went on high speed, but it was coming very
fast and very soon I realized that I would be shot down, if I didn't
do anything , so I reduced my altitude but that Mirage had intercepted
me and I was afraid.So I and my RIO requested an air support from our
base and also our distance was very far frome there.
I was thinking of being shot down by Mirage'missile that suddenly our
F-14 pilot - who was my friend- made radio contact with us and asked
our situation, only in a few seconds our F-14 Tomcat while sweeping
approached us from our head and passed upon us like a flash, in fact
it was intercepting that Mirage, ultimately we arrived our base and
landed safely while F-14 hadn't come back.
After that, my friend- the pilot of F-14 - told me that after passing
us he had gotten radar lock on Mirage and Mirage with seeing our F-14
had decided to leave the scene but it was too late for him because our
F-14 had fired an AIM-54 missile before it,which resulted in crash.
So if you have any idea about this my memoy I will be glad to answer.
Iranian F-4 pilot ( Retired )

[Ed Rasimus]

On 9 Aug 2005 12:22:19 -0700, "Amir" > wrote:

>
>In November 1982, I was coming back from a mission in Iraq, while I had
>
>no air-to air missile, at this time the ground radar informed me of
>approaching an F-1C Mirage to me

In 1982 your ground radar could identify the blip as an F-1C?
Remarkable discrimination for that period.

>.Because I had no air-to-air missile
>so I decided to escape and went on high speed, but it was coming very
>fast and very soon I realized that I would be shot down, if I didn't
>do anything , so I reduced my altitude but that Mirage had intercepted
>me and I was afraid.

Fear is a good thing, but if the Mirage "had intercepted" you, he must
have been within weapons range. If he wasn't within weapons range, an
intercept had not yet occurred.

>So I and my RIO requested an air support from our
>base and also our distance was very far frome there.

Incredible response time implied here. You're airborne with a
completed intercept by an enemy aircraft and you're calling home palte
for help???

>I was thinking of being shot down by Mirage'missile that suddenly our
>F-14 pilot - who was my friend- made radio contact with us and asked
>our situation, only in a few seconds our F-14 Tomcat while sweeping
>approached us from our head and passed upon us like a flash, in fact
>it was intercepting that Mirage, ultimately we arrived our base and
>landed safely while F-14 hadn't come back.

Singelton F-14, on your freq, piloted by your friend, within seconds
of coming to your rescue and you don't provide mutual support? Truly
incredible series of coincidences here.

>After that, my friend- the pilot of F-14 - told me that after passing
>us he had gotten radar lock on Mirage and Mirage with seeing our F-14
>had decided to leave the scene but it was too late for him because our
>F-14 had fired an AIM-54 missile before it,which resulted in crash.

Good thing he waited until passing you. Especially considering the
close range after the Mirage had completed his intercept....

>So if you have any idea about this my memoy I will be glad to answer.
>Iranian F-4 pilot ( Retired )

We all get better war stories as the years pass. Yours are simply
incredible.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Guy Alcala]

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> On 9 Aug 2005 12:22:19 -0700, "Amir" > wrote:

<snip>

> >So if you have any idea about this my memoy I will be glad to answer.
> >Iranian F-4 pilot ( Retired )
>
> We all get better war stories as the years pass. Yours are simply
> incredible.

Ed, I think you need to make a greater allowance for the fact that English
isn't this guy's first language. I expect if you were trying to relate a
story from "When Thunder Rolled" in Turkish, Spanish or Thai, assuming you
picked up some while in those countries, the technical accuracy of your
translation might be somewhat awkward. Just a thought.

Guy

[JD]

All,

Sea stories always get better with time but I was briefly involved in the
Iranian F14 program. I am the first to admit that only their top sticks got
seats but a study done a few years back, reports of using AIM54's exceed the
numbers the DoD sold them by 4X. I have a hard time imagining that there
were any black market 54's around.

Another point of interest is the software was given a "timed out" ability to
render the use of the Aim 54 useless with out adequate upgrade and support.

Jake

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On 9 Aug 2005 12:22:19 -0700, "Amir" > wrote:
>
>>
>>In November 1982, I was coming back from a mission in Iraq, while I had
>>
>>no air-to air missile, at this time the ground radar informed me of
>>approaching an F-1C Mirage to me
>
> In 1982 your ground radar could identify the blip as an F-1C?
> Remarkable discrimination for that period.
>
>>.Because I had no air-to-air missile
>>so I decided to escape and went on high speed, but it was coming very
>>fast and very soon I realized that I would be shot down, if I didn't
>>do anything , so I reduced my altitude but that Mirage had intercepted
>>me and I was afraid.
>
> Fear is a good thing, but if the Mirage "had intercepted" you, he must
> have been within weapons range. If he wasn't within weapons range, an
> intercept had not yet occurred.
>
>>So I and my RIO requested an air support from our
>>base and also our distance was very far frome there.
>
> Incredible response time implied here. You're airborne with a
> completed intercept by an enemy aircraft and you're calling home palte
> for help???
>
>>I was thinking of being shot down by Mirage'missile that suddenly our
>>F-14 pilot - who was my friend- made radio contact with us and asked
>>our situation, only in a few seconds our F-14 Tomcat while sweeping
>>approached us from our head and passed upon us like a flash, in fact
>>it was intercepting that Mirage, ultimately we arrived our base and
>>landed safely while F-14 hadn't come back.
>
> Singelton F-14, on your freq, piloted by your friend, within seconds
> of coming to your rescue and you don't provide mutual support? Truly
> incredible series of coincidences here.
>
>>After that, my friend- the pilot of F-14 - told me that after passing
>>us he had gotten radar lock on Mirage and Mirage with seeing our F-14
>>had decided to leave the scene but it was too late for him because our
>>F-14 had fired an AIM-54 missile before it,which resulted in crash.
>
> Good thing he waited until passing you. Especially considering the
> close range after the Mirage had completed his intercept....
>
>>So if you have any idea about this my memoy I will be glad to answer.
>>Iranian F-4 pilot ( Retired )
>
> We all get better war stories as the years pass. Yours are simply
> incredible.
>
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Ed Rasimus]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:21:52 GMT, Guy Alcala
> wrote:

>Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
>> On 9 Aug 2005 12:22:19 -0700, "Amir" > wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> >So if you have any idea about this my memoy I will be glad to answer.
>> >Iranian F-4 pilot ( Retired )
>>
>> We all get better war stories as the years pass. Yours are simply
>> incredible.
>
>Ed, I think you need to make a greater allowance for the fact that English
>isn't this guy's first language. I expect if you were trying to relate a
>story from "When Thunder Rolled" in Turkish, Spanish or Thai, assuming you
>picked up some while in those countries, the technical accuracy of your
>translation might be somewhat awkward. Just a thought.
>
>Guy

I respect those who can communicate in multiple languages. It's a
talent that is decisively under-taught in American schools.

However, the stories that Amir has been relating don't seem to track
well with what should be expected in tactical air operations. It isn't
the language problem, it's the "logic" problem.

The stories relate lots of single-ship, unsupported operations and an
unbelievable compression of time and space resulting inevitably in
victory for the IIAF (I guess they no longer employ the first "I" in
the name,) over the blundering Iraqi foe.

Comments have been asked for, and I offer them strictly from the
perspective of what I would consider flaws in the stories.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[leadfoot]

> I respect those who can communicate in multiple languages. It's a
> talent that is decisively under-taught in American schools.

I recall in Basic training everyone was given the test that determines how
well you can learn a foreign language and how hard they worked to talk a guy
out of his contractual guaranteed training and into language school. The
ability to be GOOD at a 2nd language is something you are really born with.
I took French in junior high and was a C student and they didn't ask me.

>
> However, the stories that Amir has been relating don't seem to track
> well with what should be expected in tactical air operations. It isn't
> the language problem, it's the "logic" problem.
>
> The stories relate lots of single-ship, unsupported operations and an
> unbelievable compression of time and space resulting inevitably in
> victory for the IIAF (I guess they no longer employ the first "I" in
> the name,) over the blundering Iraqi foe.
>
> Comments have been asked for, and I offer them strictly from the
> perspective of what I would consider flaws in the stories.


It sounds like the Iranian version of Adam Yoshida has started posting
here. ;-)

>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com