Cherokee down at ERI, 3 fatalities

[James Robinson]

News reports a Cherokee crashed just short of the runway at Erie, PA around
21:30. Aircraft resting upside down, and 3 of the 4 on board fatal. 4th
reportedly had extensive burns, and transported by helicopter to hospital.

Aircraft and passengers reportedly from Delaware. They had stopped in
Jamestown, NY, for fuel, but the FBO was closed(?) so flew on to Erie.

[Matt Whiting]

James Robinson wrote:

> News reports a Cherokee crashed just short of the runway at Erie, PA around
> 21:30. Aircraft resting upside down, and 3 of the 4 on board fatal. 4th
> reportedly had extensive burns, and transported by helicopter to hospital.
>
> Aircraft and passengers reportedly from Delaware. They had stopped in
> Jamestown, NY, for fuel, but the FBO was closed(?) so flew on to Erie.

What is this recent obsession with posting every airplane accident all
about?


Matt

[James Robinson]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> James Robinson wrote:
>
>> News reports a Cherokee crashed just short of the runway at Erie, PA
>> around 21:30. Aircraft resting upside down, and 3 of the 4 on board
>> fatal. 4th reportedly had extensive burns, and transported by
>> helicopter to hospital.
>>
>> Aircraft and passengers reportedly from Delaware. They had stopped in
>> Jamestown, NY, for fuel, but the FBO was closed(?) so flew on to
>> Erie.
>
> What is this recent obsession with posting every airplane accident all
> about?

I missed one from last night: Four killed in crash while approaching
Denver's Centennial airport. That's the fourth fatal accident at that
airport since December.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2941816

As to why they get posted, perhaps because of a sense of "There for the
grace of God go I"; perhaps because aviation is made up of a small
fraternity, and people often know those involved; perhaps because there
are lessons to be learned - in the case of the ERI accident, it appears
the pilot took a chance and ran out of fuel on a 50 mile flight; perhaps
it is simply morbid curiosity.

Overall, I hope that we never get inured to aviation accidents the way
we have to automobile accidents where something like 100 people a day
are killed on highways, and they are a footnote on back pages of
newspapers.

[Matt Whiting]

James Robinson wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>James Robinson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>News reports a Cherokee crashed just short of the runway at Erie, PA
>>>around 21:30. Aircraft resting upside down, and 3 of the 4 on board
>>>fatal. 4th reportedly had extensive burns, and transported by
>>>helicopter to hospital.
>>>
>>>Aircraft and passengers reportedly from Delaware. They had stopped in
>>>Jamestown, NY, for fuel, but the FBO was closed(?) so flew on to
>>>Erie.
>>
>>What is this recent obsession with posting every airplane accident all
>>about?
>
>
> I missed one from last night: Four killed in crash while approaching
> Denver's Centennial airport. That's the fourth fatal accident at that
> airport since December.
>
> http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2941816
>
> As to why they get posted, perhaps because of a sense of "There for the
> grace of God go I"; perhaps because aviation is made up of a small
> fraternity, and people often know those involved; perhaps because there
> are lessons to be learned - in the case of the ERI accident, it appears
> the pilot took a chance and ran out of fuel on a 50 mile flight; perhaps
> it is simply morbid curiosity.

Yes, but this seemed to start fairly recently.


> Overall, I hope that we never get inured to aviation accidents the way
> we have to automobile accidents where something like 100 people a day
> are killed on highways, and they are a footnote on back pages of
> newspapers.

Me also, but having folks like you posting every crash will help get us
to that state.


Matt

[Judah]

Some of us don't mind the bandwidth, and would otherwise have not heard
about them...

[George Patterson]

Judah wrote:
> Some of us don't mind the bandwidth, and would otherwise have not heard
> about them...

Not hearing about them is fine with me.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Bas]

George Patterson wrote:

> Judah wrote:
>> Some of us don't mind the bandwidth, and would otherwise have not heard
>> about them...
>
> Not hearing about them is fine with me.


Although I can understand that attitude, I actually do want to hear about
them. You see, we learn by our mistakes. But since I cannot make all the
mistakes, and since there are lethal mistakes, reading about accidents and
about what made them happen, is enhancing my own experience, without me
being killed or otherwise engaged in frightening situations.

[George Patterson]

Bas wrote:
>
> Although I can understand that attitude, I actually do want to hear about
> them. You see, we learn by our mistakes. But since I cannot make all the
> mistakes, and since there are lethal mistakes, reading about accidents and
> about what made them happen, is enhancing my own experience, without me
> being killed or otherwise engaged in frightening situations.

Then people should be posting about accidents that happened quite some time ago,
not about current ones. You won't learn a thing here from the usual speculation
on what caused a recent crash.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Ron Lee]

George Patterson > wrote:

>Then people should be posting about accidents that happened quite some time ago,
>not about current ones. You won't learn a thing here from the usual speculation
>on what caused a recent crash.

Frankly it is easy to come up with a plausible (and likely correct)
analysis of the cause of some crashes. Two examples are the JFK JR
crash and the recent Toronto crash.

Reviewing accident results won't help some people who are just
accidents waiting to happen...either due to excessive bravado or lack
of common sense.

Ron Lee

[Longworth]

George,

I myself find postings of recent accidents helpful. It is a good
reminder or warning flag especially for weather-related accidents be it
icing, fog, high-density altitude etc.

We flew over western PA on our last three trips to MI. I can
certainly relate to one recent accident where the pilot encountered
unexpected IMC condition when the nearby ATIS reported VMC. This
particular accident reminds me of the fact that going West, one may
encounter strong headwind. If something unexpected happens, one could
easily mismanage the fuel situation. In our second trip to Michigan,
we had to stop earlier because of a broken alternator wire. We fueled
earlier than planned. The stronger than expected headwind cost us some
extra time. I kept watching the fuel gauge and urged Rick to land but
he wanted to get out of the busy B/C airspaces first. By the time we
stopped for fuel, we had about 40minutes of fuel left. We were
certainly within the legal limit (30 minutes in VFR day time) but it
was not a comfortable feeling. After the trip, we agreed than we would
try to monitor the fuel more closely and whoever more conservative
would win (only in flying not in politics ;-)).

We attend Wings Safety Seminar quite regularly. Before each
meeting, Bob Martens (Windsor Locks) always give a brief review of
local accidents. We learned quite a bit about the hazards associated
with certain airports in certain weather conditions such as very
localized low ceilings and fog in coastal airports. I do read NTSB
reports but it is not something that I read everyday. We will be
flying to Denver this weekend and will most likely land at Centennial
airport. So a plane crash at that airport is of interest to me. We
may not know the cause of the crash for many months but reading such
accidents helped me to be more cautious in our planning.

Hai Longworth

[Hilton]

George Patterson wrote:
> Then people should be posting about accidents that happened quite some
time ago,
> not about current ones. You won't learn a thing here from the usual
speculation
> on what caused a recent crash.

Ahhh, but you can learn a lot from many thoughts. I think speculation is
great (as long as it is labeled as such) because it causes people to think
'out the box' so to speak. For example, take the JFK Jr. accident.
Speculation was that his broken foot led to the accident. OK, so is it
possible for a bad foot to cause such an accident, let's think about it. Or
perhaps it was on autopilot and the autopilot malfunctioned - what warnings
if any would the pilot receive when/if the autopilot malfunctioned. How
many of us run through the *required* autopilot checks when we climb into an
autopilot-equipped rental? Perhaps JFK had a heart attack, could his wife
control such a hi-perf aircraft in those conditions? Makes you think about
having your wife/husband/etc spend an hour or two actually flying your plane
occasionally.

I also think that reading the NTSB reports is very educational, but why not
think of "what if's" too?

Hilton