TFR over NASCAR race was possibly violated, too

[Peter R.]

This past Sunday I had the opportunity to take my two children to my and
their first NASCAR stock car race at Watkins Glen, NY (USA).

As we were sitting in the bleachers listening to the Canadian National
Anthem just prior to the start of the race, I looked up and saw a Cessna
172 circling about 1,000 feet above the 200,000 spectators', teams', and
vendors' heads.

Conditions were marginal VFR and the 172 made three passes before leaving
the airspace.

In thinking about the official TFR in place for the event, I wondered if
this C172 pilot received a waiver to loiter over the event. Aerial
photography, perhaps?

Oh, and on an aviation related note, a B-17 and a B-25 performed two in-
formation fly-overs about two hours before the start of the race. Now
that was a sight to see.

--
Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

Could have been CAP. We often fly in TFRs for observation.

[Peter R.]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> Could have been CAP. We often fly in TFRs for observation.

Interesting. Do you have to apply for a waiver before departing on these
missions? If so, who does this?

--
Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

For any CAP flight you must receive a flight release authorization. I
would guess that this particular release would come from the AirForce.
Most TFRs don't apply to gov't operations so as long as you are flying
on behalf of uncle sam, you should be ok. There may be some coordiation
required to ensure they know who is coming and going, but most likely
they are waiting for you. Remember that after 9/11 CAP Cessna 172s were
flying over the World Trade Center even before the airlines were back
in the air.

-Robert

[Peter R.]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> For any CAP flight you must receive a flight release authorization. I
> would guess that this particular release would come from the AirForce.
> Most TFRs don't apply to gov't operations so as long as you are flying
> on behalf of uncle sam, you should be ok. There may be some coordiation
> required to ensure they know who is coming and going, but most likely
> they are waiting for you.

Thanks, Robert. I was unaware of CAP's ability to fly into TFRs. Of
course, since I do not participate in CAP my lack of knowledge of their
privileges shouldn't be too surprising.

Does this privilege also apply to the Washington ADIZ if the CAP flight is
a US gov't flight?

> Remember that after 9/11 CAP Cessna 172s were
> flying over the World Trade Center even before the airlines were back
> in the air.

What was the purpose of these flights?

--
Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

I believe CAP flights are flying in the Washington ADIZ.

The purpose was for observation and emegency coordination. CAP also
operates the country's only emergency communication system. If the T1
lines go down that run your cell phone, land lines etc, you must use
the CAP radio relay network.

-Robert

[Terry H]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

> I believe CAP flights are flying in the Washington ADIZ.
>
> The purpose was for observation and emegency coordination. CAP also
> operates the country's only emergency communication system. If the T1
> lines go down that run your cell phone, land lines etc, you must use
> the CAP radio relay network.

"CAP also operates the country's only emergency communication system" is
a massive exageration. True CAP has government (issued by NTIA, not FCC)
radio frequencies and radio repeaters (similar in function to VHF/UHF ham
repeaters except they operate on gov't issued CAP frequencies) but there
are a lot of emergency communcation systems out there, run by government
and private companies that utilize satellite, radio, landline, etc.

An interesting tidbit is that 122.9 Mhz is not only for MULTICOM and CTAF
at non-towered airports without FBOs but is also authorized for CAP use
for training, as 122.9 is available for government stations.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/alloctbl/foot_us.html [footnote US80]
For radio purposes CAP is a government entity. Legally it is a federal
chartered corporation.

[Mike Weller]

On 15 Aug 2005 13:14:16 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

> Remember that after 9/11 CAP Cessna 172s were
>flying over the World Trade Center even before the airlines were back
>in the air.
>
>-Robert

Doing what?

Mike Weller

[Mike Weller]

On 15 Aug 2005 17:08:49 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>I believe CAP flights are flying in the Washington ADIZ.
>
>The purpose was for observation and emegency coordination. CAP also
>operates the country's only emergency communication system. If the T1
>lines go down that run your cell phone, land lines etc, you must use
>the CAP radio relay network.
>
>-Robert

Oh really! I wouldn't have imagined that. I've got an old Drake TR-4
that will transmit to anywhere. In Morse code if need be.

Mike Weller
N4TXJ

[Hotel 179]

> Doing what?
>
> Mike Weller
-------------------------------------reply------------------------------------

Taking pictures.

Stephen

[Jay Beckman]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> This past Sunday I had the opportunity to take my two children to my and
> their first NASCAR stock car race at Watkins Glen, NY (USA).
>
> As we were sitting in the bleachers listening to the Canadian National
> Anthem just prior to the start of the race, I looked up and saw a Cessna
> 172 circling about 1,000 feet above the 200,000 spectators', teams', and
> vendors' heads.
>
> Conditions were marginal VFR and the 172 made three passes before leaving
> the airspace.
>
> In thinking about the official TFR in place for the event, I wondered if
> this C172 pilot received a waiver to loiter over the event. Aerial
> photography, perhaps?
>
> Oh, and on an aviation related note, a B-17 and a B-25 performed two in-
> formation fly-overs about two hours before the start of the race. Now
> that was a sight to see.
>
> --
> Peter

Peter,

I didn't notice the 172, but I was floored by the other flyby.

The two aircraft in formation were the Collings Foundation B-17
"Nine-O-Nine" and their B-24 "Dragon And His Tail."

They were enroute to Syracuse, NY for one of their "visits" (according to
the CF's website.)

FWIW...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Technician, NASCAR on NBC/TNT

[Peter R.]

Jay Beckman > wrote:

> I didn't notice the 172, but I was floored by the other flyby.

It appeared around the national anthems, fireworks, and Black Hawk fly-bys.
We were sitting in the Turn 10 bleachers when I saw the aircraft, which I
believe faces west.

> The two aircraft in formation were the Collings Foundation B-17
> "Nine-O-Nine" and their B-24 "Dragon And His Tail."

Thanks for the correction and the elaboration.

<snip>
> They were enroute to Syracuse, NY for one of their "visits" (according
> to the CF's website.)

Yep, for US$400 or so they were giving out rides in the B-17 up in
Syracuse. There were also tours of the aircraft.

> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> Technician, NASCAR on NBC/TNT

You work for NBC/TNT? Very cool. Do you travel to all of the NASCAR
races?

--
Peter
























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[Jay Beckman]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Jay Beckman > wrote:
>
>> I didn't notice the 172, but I was floored by the other flyby.
>
> It appeared around the national anthems, fireworks, and Black Hawk
> fly-bys.
> We were sitting in the Turn 10 bleachers when I saw the aircraft, which I
> believe faces west.
>

Ah, ok. We were firmly planted in the production truck at that point in the
proceedings.

>
> You work for NBC/TNT? Very cool. Do you travel to all of the NASCAR
> races?
>
> --
> Peter

As a matter of fact, I do. I work the first half for FOX and the second
half for NBC.

Jay

[Dave]

Gotta love that Hi-Def!

Won some money gambling in Feb, and bought a Hi Def TV with it. Already had
the surround sound. Now I watch nascar every Sunday with it.

Dave

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:sDqMe.57040$E95.49633@fed1read01...
> "Peter R." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jay Beckman > wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't notice the 172, but I was floored by the other flyby.
>>
>> It appeared around the national anthems, fireworks, and Black Hawk
>> fly-bys.
>> We were sitting in the Turn 10 bleachers when I saw the aircraft, which I
>> believe faces west.
>>
>
> Ah, ok. We were firmly planted in the production truck at that point in
> the proceedings.
>
>>
>> You work for NBC/TNT? Very cool. Do you travel to all of the NASCAR
>> races?
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>
> As a matter of fact, I do. I work the first half for FOX and the second
> half for NBC.
>
> Jay
>

[Robert M. Gary]

I don't know (or care) much about radios other than wanting to receive
Rush Limbaugh in the AM. All I know of the CAP radio network is what I
learned in Level I CAP class. I know I had similar questions when that
statement was made and several radio guys (new CAP guys) made the case
that the CAP network was truely unique.

-Robert

[Jay Beckman]

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Gotta love that Hi-Def!
>
> Won some money gambling in Feb, and bought a Hi Def TV with it. Already
> had the surround sound. Now I watch nascar every Sunday with it.
>
> Dave

Nice to know you're watching, thanks.

Jay

[Mike Weller]

On 16 Aug 2005 13:53:29 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>I don't know (or care) much about radios other than wanting to receive
>Rush Limbaugh in the AM.

This has to be troll, but I'll bite. The last time I heard Rush on
the radio he bragged that he had about a million listeners per day.
That made him gush with pride that that was five million per week.

>All I know of the CAP radio network is what I
>learned in Level I CAP class. I know I had similar questions when that
>statement was made and several radio guys (new CAP guys) made the case
>that the CAP network was truely unique.

OK, I'll bite again. The CAP network must be truely (sic) unique.

Tell me more. I'm a pilot and a radio guy.

Mike Weller

[Robert M. Gary]

Awesome! Check out www.cap.gov We need lots of people, especially
pilots and radio guys. I'm sure the radio guys with your local squadron
would love to work with you to get you certified with CAP! Personally,
I'm not a radio guy so I'm not the best person to discuss the claim but
you won't have any trouble finding CAP members who are! We look forward
to seeing new faces!!

-Robert, CFI

[Robert M. Gary]

Mike,
Here is a bit more information for you...
http://level2.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=5236
I also found an email address for Malcolm Kyser, Chief of
Communications; oversees CAP radio nets and frequencies
I'm sure he can answer all your questions! We hope to see you at a
meeting!! Sounds like you have some skill sets we could really use.

-Robert

[Jose]

> The last time I heard Rush on
> the radio he bragged that he had about a million listeners per day.
> That made him gush with pride that that was five million per week.

There are two hundred million people in the US. In less than a year,
everyone will have heard of him and stopped listening.

<g> Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose]

> everyone will have heard of him and stopped listening.

Of course I meant "...everyone will have heard him and stopped listening. "

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Newps]

He's been on for 17 years this month and gets over 20 million listeners
a week.



Jose wrote:
>> everyone will have heard of him and stopped listening.
>
>
> Of course I meant "...everyone will have heard him and stopped listening. "
>
> Jose

[Morgans]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote
>
> Nice to know you're watching, thanks.

Warning: this post is OFF TOPIC

I would watch more, if Junior would get off his rear end, and do something.
What is it going to take to get things going with him? Any insights?
--
Jim in NC

[Jose]

> He's been on for 17 years this month and gets over 20 million listeners a week.

There's a sucker born every minute. :)

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jay Beckman]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote
>>
>> Nice to know you're watching, thanks.
>
> Warning: this post is OFF TOPIC
>
> I would watch more, if Junior would get off his rear end, and do
> something.
> What is it going to take to get things going with him? Any insights?
> --
> Jim in NC

Personally, I think the crew / car swap with MW just screwed up that entire
team.

It's entirely possible that with mucho dinero, Jr has decided to say "screw
it" for this season, we'll get 'em next year.

YMMV...

Jay