SF Bay Area to Henderson Executive (Las Vegas)

[jackle]

I'm planning a trip from Palo Alto to Las Vegas, landing at Henderson
Exec (closest airport to where we are staying). I'll be flying in a
Saratoga.

I'd like to benefit from other's experiences. In particular:

1) Best route from PAO to Henderson?

2) Best arrival procedure through Las Vegas airspace, such that we get
a view of the Strip (if possible) while not interfering with Class B
airspace? Is IFR recommended to navigate the space?

3) Best local flights, in case the "in-laws" want to go for a ride
(Lake Mead? Other?)? Any airports with good food on the property?

Any help and suggestions welcome.

Jacopo

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-08-22, jackle > wrote:
> I'm planning a trip from Palo Alto to Las Vegas, landing at Henderson
> Exec (closest airport to where we are staying). I'll be flying in a
> Saratoga.

Hey! I did that flight about two weeks ago in a Piper TriPacer (from
OAK, but close enough to Palo Alto)

> 1) Best route from PAO to Henderson?

If you don't have the power to get over the mountains (remember -
Yosemite - you need to be 2000' above the terrain, which really means
you need oxygen), you'll need to go south. My route (and I had to stop
for fuel, my range was probably quite a bit more limited than yours) was
OAK -> Porterville (a cool airport btw, especially if you like playing a
piano) -> Henderson.

If you take the low route like I did, ask Joshua Approach about the
status of the restricted area over Edwards. It's not hot all the time
and quite often you can go straight through it which saves probably 50
miles off the trip (and you get to fly right over Edwards which is
pretty cool in itself).

Porterville also has decent inexpensive food right on the airfield.

> 2) Best arrival procedure through Las Vegas airspace, such that we get
> a view of the Strip (if possible) while not interfering with Class B
> airspace? Is IFR recommended to navigate the space?

You can't do it - you'll have to fly in the class B to fly over the
strip so you'll have to intefere with the class B. Henderson is on the
south side of Vegas so you'll get there before overflying the strip
anyway if you're flying the route I did.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Larry Dighera]

On 22 Aug 2005 12:16:52 -0700, "jackle" > wrote in
. com>::

>2) Best arrival procedure through Las Vegas airspace, such that we get
>a view of the Strip (if possible) while not interfering with Class B
>airspace?

Consider landing at KLAS. The downwind to 19R parallels the strip,
and the base leg has you aimed at the Stratosphere.

>Is IFR recommended to navigate the space?

Not necessary. Just contact Approach 20 miles out.

[cjcampbell]

Navigating Las Vegas class B is easy enough. They just give you
directions and you follow them. The occasional pilot does get lost and
lines up on the wrong airfield, so just be sure you know where you are.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jackle,

>
> 1) Best route from PAO to Henderson?

Depends on the weather. If it is real good and with calm winds, I'd
definitely go across Yosemite, Tioga pass and Death Valley for the
scenery. You can do that without oxygen, barely.

>
> 2) Best arrival procedure through Las Vegas airspace, such that we get
> a view of the Strip (if possible) while not interfering with Class B
> airspace? Is IFR recommended to navigate the space?

It's a very busy airspace. There are VFR routes. Use those. Otherwise,
you could also fly low along the mountain range in the west and stay
completely below Class B.

>
> 3) Best local flights, in case the "in-laws" want to go for a ride
> (Lake Mead? Other?)? Any airports with good food on the property?

Lake Mead is good but real quick in a Saratoga. Grand Canyon would be
less than an hour, I would guess. The perfect lunch flight (2 hours
total) would be to Marble Canyon (L41), which has a great little
restaurant right next to the Grand Canyon's east end.

>
> Any help and suggestions welcome.
>
> Jacopo
>

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-08-22, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On 22 Aug 2005 12:16:52 -0700, "jackle" > wrote in
. com>::
>
>>2) Best arrival procedure through Las Vegas airspace, such that we get
>>a view of the Strip (if possible) while not interfering with Class B
>>airspace?
>
> Consider landing at KLAS. The downwind to 19R parallels the strip,
> and the base leg has you aimed at the Stratosphere.

If you're rich. I decided not to use KLAS after reading the comments on
Airnav. Signature has a monopoly at KLAS and we all know what it means
when Signature has a monopoly. Don't expect to get away with less than
fuel + $100 in charges.

Mind you the cab ride from Henderson is $40 each way, so if you do park
at Henderson, rent a car - it'll be FAR cheaper. It was a good job I
actually won at Vegas making it essentially free :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:53:19 -0000, Dylan Smith
> wrote in
>::

>On 2005-08-22, Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> On 22 Aug 2005 12:16:52 -0700, "jackle" > wrote in
. com>::
>>
>>>2) Best arrival procedure through Las Vegas airspace, such that we get
>>>a view of the Strip (if possible) while not interfering with Class B
>>>airspace?
>>
>> Consider landing at KLAS. The downwind to 19R parallels the strip,
>> and the base leg has you aimed at the Stratosphere.
>
>If you're rich. I decided not to use KLAS after reading the comments on
>Airnav. Signature has a monopoly at KLAS and we all know what it means
>when Signature has a monopoly. Don't expect to get away with less than
>fuel + $100 in charges.

There is little question about Signature's desire to discourage piston
single patronage. However, Eagle at the Executive Terminal* located
at the north end of runway 19R is friendly and accommodating. Here's
a PIREP:
http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.aviation.piloting/msg/86edf6ec565608b6?dmode=source&hl=en
http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.aviation.owning/browse_frm/thread/7c97cb92e82a3d04/602bcff5452acb20?lnk=st&q=executive+las+group:rec.aviation.piloting+author :larry+author:Dighera&rnum=4&hl=en#602bcff5452acb20

>Mind you the cab ride from Henderson is $40 each way, so if you do park
>at Henderson, rent a car - it'll be FAR cheaper. It was a good job I
>actually won at Vegas making it essentially free :-)

Fortunately, Eagle offers pilots a free shuttle service to and from
hotels on the strip. But you'd better hurry. There's no telling how
the change in ownership will affect the service.**

* http://www.lasvegasfbo.com/

**
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/comsite5/bin/comsite5.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=2930&purchase_type=ITM&item_id=0286-8194482&word=Lv_Executive_Air

[Blanche]

Due to the large number of sightseeing aircraft (fixed wing and
helicopters) I'd suggest hiring a CFI who knows the area very well
as your tour guide. That way you learn the routes and can do
some sightseeing yourself with less worry.

[Rob]

Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> There is little question about Signature's desire to discourage piston
> single patronage. However, Eagle at the Executive Terminal* located
> at the north end of runway 19R is friendly and accommodating.

>From what I've heard, this is true. Be sure to call ahead though. In
October of 2003 I flew into LAS in a C150 intending to park at
Executive. I was a fresh Private Pilot but I managed to get an attaboy
from the tower controller for my 100 mph zigzag sequencing and
dive-bomber landing with a bouncing squeaking high-speed turn off the
runway. Out of the way about 10 seconds ahead of the corporate jet
behind me, who was very happy to not have to go around. My request for
taxi to Executive was met with "Executive is full and they're not
accepting piston singles. Taxi straight ahead to Signature." The ramp
fee was $90 (I pushed my airplane into a space and tied it down
myself). Gas was $4. The two-mile cab ride to the San Remo (not the
flashiest hotel on the strip, but right outside the door of the
Executive terminal) was probably $20 with a tip.

In signature's defense, they redeemed themselves the next day. Winds
were (unusually) more favorable for a return in the afternoon. It was
an unexpected bonus to be able to stay up late for the final night in
Las Vegas. We got all pre-flighted and started up and called clearance
delivery. The controller suggested I try again in FOUR HOURS! It
turned out a wildfire in southern California had led to the evacuation
of SoCal TRACON and the friendly folks at LAS were shouldering some of
the load. If I had gone to Henderson I'd be out of there VFR no sweat,
but I couldn't get clearance through the class bravo for the first
couple of miles of the trip back to Phoenix! The line of IFRs waiting
to go stretched two miles down the east-west parallel taxiway. It was
crazy. I wasn't prepared at the time to fly in the dark, so another
night it was. Signature was kind enough to waive the ramp fee for a
second night due to the circumstances. They also set us up with a very
nice but very inexpensive room at the Luxor - $50 I think - and this
time they gave us a ride over to the hotel in the van. In the end I
felt like I had accidentally gotten the rock star service I had paid
for. We had a super nice early seafood dinner, planned the morning
ride home (an hour in darkness this time - something I paradoxically
felt comfortable doing at that time, fresh from training, but wouldn't
do today without an IR or some refresher training at night away from
the city) and got to bed early. I got home Monday morning in time to
get a shower and be at my desk by 9 am.

Now that I'm re-living that trip, I need to try it again (I've got a
Grumman Tiger now, should be about half the time as in the 150). I'll
probably go to Henderson this time though :).

Also, to the O. P.: Get the Vegas terminal chart. There is (or at
least was) a class bravo transition route, the "showboat" route I
think, that might be a nice way to see the Strip without mixing it up
with the tour operators and without having to negotiate anything
special with Las Vegas approach/tower.

-R

[Jose]

> Signature was kind enough to waive the ramp fee for a
> second night due to the circumstances.

Signature could waive all ramp fees after 9 AM and still make a profit. :/

> In the end I
> felt like I had accidentally gotten the rock star service I had paid
> for.

Well put.

I don't need the rock star treatment, and if I ever feel like I want it,
I'll decide where to put my money thankyouverymuch.

Elvis has left the building, so it's just Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Thomas Borchert]

Blanche,

> Due to the large number of sightseeing aircraft (fixed wing and
> helicopters) I'd suggest hiring a CFI who knows the area very well
> as your tour guide. That way you learn the routes and can do
> some sightseeing yourself with less worry.
>

Actually, I couldn't disagree more. Those aircraft are way below you
over the Grand Canyon, the airspace regulations separate you from them
anyway.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Blanche]

Thomas Borchert > wrote:
>Blanche,
>
>> Due to the large number of sightseeing aircraft (fixed wing and
>> helicopters) I'd suggest hiring a CFI who knows the area very well
>> as your tour guide. That way you learn the routes and can do
>> some sightseeing yourself with less worry.
>>
>
>Actually, I couldn't disagree more. Those aircraft are way below you
>over the Grand Canyon, the airspace regulations separate you from them
>anyway.

Learn something new everyday.