Snowbirds Crash

[Jay Honeck]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D5D326EAB

Maybe after this incident the Canadians will stop making their
world-renowned aerobatic team fly around in antique aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:vnsPe.281727$_o.88276@attbi_s71...
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?D5D326EAB
>
> Maybe after this incident the Canadians will stop making their
> world-renowned aerobatic team fly around in antique aircraft?

Would that it be this easy.

The inside word has it that the team is lucky to be in existence even with
the Tutors. The money just isn't there for the much needed transition into
the Hawks. In the old days, Col O.B. Philp, the "father" of the team, even
after leaving MooseJaw, was a constant supporter, putting in the good word
where it would do the most good to keep the funding open for the team. But
now he's gone, and many in the Canadian Forces want the team's budget spent
in other areas. It's been a tough road for the Snows, and they've done a
terrific job of keeping it together and running with what they have to work
with.
As you know, I've had the pleasure of flying one of the Tutors as a guest
pilot with the team (a long time ago :-) and I have firm feelings for their
mission.
Personally, I think the Snows are an invaluable asset to Canada, and I'd
hate to see the team disbanded for lack of funds. The powers that be might
do it but for the huge public outcry both in Canada and in the United
States. The team is extremely popular in both countries with good reason.
Their message of good will would be sorely missed by Canada.
Who knows what will happen? Every time there's an accident, the cry goes up
to finally disband the team. Then the people raise hell and the team is
spared another day.
My guess is that the Snows will reach the same plateau reached by the
Thunderbirds right after the Indian Springs Line Abreast Loop crash that
took Norm Lowry's team. After the dust settled in, it was either trash the
mission or upgrade it. The Thunderbirds dropped the T38's and got the Vipers
thanks to a lot of people working hard to see that happen......my self
included.
I hope the Snows reach that decision point and the Canadians finally decide
to upgrade them to the Hawks.
Dudley

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Maybe after this incident the Canadians will stop making their
> world-renowned aerobatic team fly around in antique aircraft?

The government has tried to shut them down before; this incident is much more
likely to result in disbandment than new aircraft.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Jay Beckman]

Dudley,

Why Hawks and not Hornets?

The CAF puts on a great solo demo in the F/A-18...why not work the
Snows into "bugs?"

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Arizona Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dudley,
>
> Why Hawks and not Hornets?
>
> The CAF puts on a great solo demo in the F/A-18...why not work the
> Snows into "bugs?"
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> Arizona Cloudbusters
> Chandler, AZ

Cost most of all, and location. I haven't heard much mentioned about the Bug
which is in use at Clod Lake and Bagotville, but the Hawk has been kicked
around quite a lot by the guys back channel.
Also, the Hawk is already in use at Moosejaw on Phase 3 pilot training
prior to fighter lead- in transitioning into the CF18 at Cold Lake. The Hawk
is the natural choice if indeed there will be a choice.
D

[Dudley Henriques]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:pHvPe.12988$3%1.7474@trndny08...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>> Maybe after this incident the Canadians will stop making their
>> world-renowned aerobatic team fly around in antique aircraft?
>
> The government has tried to shut them down before; this incident is much
> more likely to result in disbandment than new aircraft.

Stay tuned :-)

DH

[Dave S]

George Patterson wrote:

>
> The government has tried to shut them down before; this incident is much
> more likely to result in disbandment than new aircraft.
>
> George Patterson

They are slated to fly Wings Over Houston in October.. Hope they get to
make it.

Dave

[Jay Beckman]

All makes perfect sense...Thanks Dudley.

Jay B

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Jay Beckman" > said:
>Dudley,
>
>Why Hawks and not Hornets?
>
>The CAF puts on a great solo demo in the F/A-18...why not work the
>Snows into "bugs?"

I think they do a better, more crowd pleasing show with slower aircraft.
The Blue Angels spend too much time too far away from the crowd for my
tastes.

I like the fact that the CAF does both a slow and precise show and a fast
and loud solo demo.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Is it so difficult to master your bloody pride and admit that yes, a bunch
of hackers turned out a better suite of utilities than your teams of
engineers ever could? -- Robert Uhl

[John Clear]

In article >,
Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>In a previous article, "Jay Beckman" > said:
>>
>>Why Hawks and not Hornets?
>>
>>The CAF puts on a great solo demo in the F/A-18...why not work the
>>Snows into "bugs?"
>
>I think they do a better, more crowd pleasing show with slower aircraft.
>The Blue Angels spend too much time too far away from the crowd for my
>tastes.

I agree completely. I've seen the Snowbirds and the Blue Angels
at the same airshow (Salinas, twice), and the Snowbirds do a much
better show. The Blue Angels (and Thunderbirds) are in front of
the crowd for ten seconds, and then take three counties to turn
around for the next pass. The Snowbirds spend more time in front
of the crowd, and then are in view the entire time they are turning
around for their next pass. The Blue Angels and Thunderbirds fly
an amazingly precise, amazingly boring show. The Snowbirds are
just as precise, but with their nine planes, can do some more
interesting formations then just the delta or diamond formation.

Pics from Salinas 2004: http://www.clear-prop.org/salinas2004/

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Icebound]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
>
> George Patterson wrote:
>
>>
>> The government has tried to shut them down before; this incident is much
>> more likely to result in disbandment than new aircraft.
>>
>> George Patterson
>
> They are slated to fly Wings Over Houston in October.. Hope they get to
> make it.
>
> Dave
>

The team leader has been quoted as saying that they will *not* fly "until a
cause has been determined". Whether that was taken in context or not, who
knows.
And whether he really meant "when the investigation must be complete and the
report issued", or "when we think we know what happened".

The immediate big performance that stands to be cancelled is the Canadian
National Exhibition at Toronto next weekend. No doubt the biggest single
audience in Canada, possibly even in all of North America.

[Icebound]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:vnsPe.281727$_o.88276@attbi_s71...
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?D5D326EAB
>>
>> Maybe after this incident the Canadians will stop making their
>> world-renowned aerobatic team fly around in antique aircraft?
>
> Would that it be this easy.
>
....snip...

> My guess is that the Snows will reach the same plateau reached by the
> Thunderbirds right after the Indian Springs Line Abreast Loop crash that
> took Norm Lowry's team. After the dust settled in, it was either trash the
> mission or upgrade it. The Thunderbirds dropped the T38's and got the
> Vipers thanks to a lot of people working hard to see that happen......my
> self included.
> I hope the Snows reach that decision point and the Canadians finally
> decide to upgrade them to the Hawks.

This could be a good time.

The federal budget is supposed to be in surplus shape, and public opinion is
on their side.

Not scientific, of course, but a recent poll of public would have 71 percent
give them new planes, and only 20 percent would can them. The remaining 9
would have them keep going with what they got.

[Peter Weaver]

George Patterson wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>> Maybe after this incident the Canadians will stop making their
>> world-renowned aerobatic team fly around in antique aircraft?
>
> The government has tried to shut them down before; this incident is
> much more likely to result in disbandment than new aircraft.

Why jump to the conclusion that it was a mechanical problem? For all we
know it could have been a bird strike. In that part of the country they
even have mosquitoes big enough to take down a plane. :) If it was just
a bird then let the Snowbirds carry on with the 9 Tutors. The last time
the government talked about replacing the jets I was told that if they
had to go with any other jet they could only afford to put 4 planes in
the air.

I was really looking forward to seeing the Snowbirds this Saturday and
Sunday in St. Catharines, but I will probably still be at the airshow.

--
Peter Weaver
Weaver Consulting Services Inc.
Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX
www.weaverconsulting.ca