Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper

[[email protected]]

Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper
Aug 25 3:31 PM US/Eastern

YUMA, Ariz.

Illegal immigrants threw rocks at a Border Patrol helicopter,
forcing the pilot to make an emergency landing when one of the rocks
damaged the rotor, the agency said.

Neither the pilot nor the Border Patrol observer was injured.

The A-Star helicopter was two miles west of the U.S. Port of
Entry in Andrade, Calif., on Tuesday when a group of immigrants
began throwing rocks at the aircraft.

One baseball-sized rock gashed the rotor, forcing the pilot to
land nearby, said Michael Gramley, spokesman for the Border
Patrol sector based in Yuma, Ariz.

Gramley said he did not know how high the helicopter was
hovering when it was struck, but he said it was being repaired
and is expected back in service soon.

After the incident, 17 people were apprehended for illegally
crossing the border, and two of them were being investigated for
smuggling. Ten immigrants evaded capture.

The investigation into the rock-throwing was continuing.
================================================== =======

Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?


KM

[Jay Honeck]

> Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?

No, that would be barbaric.

However, I am continually amazed at the vociferous opposition to actually
controlling our borders. For some reason the ACLU and a host of other
do-gooder organizations find it anathema for America to actually restrict
immigration to legal immigrants only -- a fact that baffles me.

We are friends with a family from Columbia. They came to America the hard
way -- legally -- and have struggled over the last decade with obtaining
green cards for their family members, and with becoming American citizens.
It has been a tough row to hoe, and they are rightfully proud of their
efforts and status.

They are also the most vocally anti-Mexican group of people I have EVER
known. Their attitude toward illegal immigrants borders on Fascist -- they
simply despise them for cheating and taking the easy way -- at what they see
as their expense -- and I am sure they would advocate following this
poster's (I hope) tongue-in-cheek suggestion to arm the border patrol
helicopters with machine guns.

But what is so wrong with stopping illegal immigration? Why is it okay to
fly helicopters up and down the Rio Grande 24/7 -- at huge expense -- but
building a fence is seen as some sort of "Berlin Wall"-type of deal?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Beckman]

Exactly my thought:

Just shoot back...

Jay B

[W P Dixon]

Interesting,
The USMC has some very nicely equipped Whiskey Cobras they could send up
with the border patrol, and OH they are stationed right there at MCAS YUMA!

I know where you are coming from Jay, my 1st wife was of hispanic
descent, father Nuevo Laredo, mexico and Mom from Bogota Columbia....and
they did not like the wide open borders either. Though my father in law had
a very good paying job he said the illegals kept the pay down for Mexicans
that were here legally.
They are really good folks and I think very highly of them. Great family
that loved a reason for a fiesta!!!!!;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:DxvPe.282087$_o.58618@attbi_s71...
>> Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?
>
> No, that would be barbaric.
>
> However, I am continually amazed at the vociferous opposition to actually
> controlling our borders. For some reason the ACLU and a host of other
> do-gooder organizations find it anathema for America to actually restrict
> immigration to legal immigrants only -- a fact that baffles me.
>
> We are friends with a family from Columbia. They came to America the hard
> way -- legally -- and have struggled over the last decade with obtaining
> green cards for their family members, and with becoming American citizens.
> It has been a tough row to hoe, and they are rightfully proud of their
> efforts and status.
>
> They are also the most vocally anti-Mexican group of people I have EVER
> known. Their attitude toward illegal immigrants borders on Fascist --
> they simply despise them for cheating and taking the easy way -- at what
> they see as their expense -- and I am sure they would advocate following
> this poster's (I hope) tongue-in-cheek suggestion to arm the border patrol
> helicopters with machine guns.
>
> But what is so wrong with stopping illegal immigration? Why is it okay
> to fly helicopters up and down the Rio Grande 24/7 -- at huge expense --
> but building a fence is seen as some sort of "Berlin Wall"-type of deal?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:DxvPe.282087$_o.58618@attbi_s71...
> > Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?
>
> No, that would be barbaric.
>
> However, I am continually amazed at the vociferous opposition to actually
> controlling our borders. For some reason the ACLU and a host of other
> do-gooder organizations find it anathema for America to actually restrict
> immigration to legal immigrants only -- a fact that baffles me.
>
> We are friends with a family from Columbia. They came to America the hard
> way -- legally -- and have struggled over the last decade with obtaining
> green cards for their family members, and with becoming American citizens.
> It has been a tough row to hoe, and they are rightfully proud of their
> efforts and status.
>
> They are also the most vocally anti-Mexican group of people I have EVER
> known. Their attitude toward illegal immigrants borders on Fascist --
they
> simply despise them for cheating and taking the easy way -- at what they
see
> as their expense -- and I am sure they would advocate following this
> poster's (I hope) tongue-in-cheek suggestion to arm the border patrol
> helicopters with machine guns.
>
> But what is so wrong with stopping illegal immigration? Why is it okay
to
> fly helicopters up and down the Rio Grande 24/7 -- at huge expense -- but
> building a fence is seen as some sort of "Berlin Wall"-type of deal?

Very simple.....votes. Upset the Latino community and its all over.

> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Aluckyguess]

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Interesting,
> The USMC has some very nicely equipped Whiskey Cobras they could send up
> with the border patrol, and OH they are stationed right there at MCAS
> YUMA!
>
> I know where you are coming from Jay, my 1st wife was of hispanic
> descent, father Nuevo Laredo, mexico and Mom from Bogota Columbia....and
> they did not like the wide open borders either. Though my father in law
> had a very good paying job he said the illegals kept the pay down for
> Mexicans that were here legally.

I never thought about that but he was right.
I think the reason they let them in is they are funding our social security
system with phony ID's. They pay in but will never collect.

> They are really good folks and I think very highly of them. Great
> family that loved a reason for a fiesta!!!!!;)
>
> Patrick
> student SPL
> aircraft structural mech
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:DxvPe.282087$_o.58618@attbi_s71...
>>> Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?
>>
>> No, that would be barbaric.
>>
>> However, I am continually amazed at the vociferous opposition to actually
>> controlling our borders. For some reason the ACLU and a host of other
>> do-gooder organizations find it anathema for America to actually restrict
>> immigration to legal immigrants only -- a fact that baffles me.
>>
>> We are friends with a family from Columbia. They came to America the
>> hard way -- legally -- and have struggled over the last decade with
>> obtaining green cards for their family members, and with becoming
>> American citizens. It has been a tough row to hoe, and they are
>> rightfully proud of their efforts and status.
>>
>> They are also the most vocally anti-Mexican group of people I have EVER
>> known. Their attitude toward illegal immigrants borders on Fascist --
>> they simply despise them for cheating and taking the easy way -- at what
>> they see as their expense -- and I am sure they would advocate following
>> this poster's (I hope) tongue-in-cheek suggestion to arm the border
>> patrol helicopters with machine guns.
>>
>> But what is so wrong with stopping illegal immigration? Why is it okay
>> to fly helicopters up and down the Rio Grande 24/7 -- at huge expense --
>> but building a fence is seen as some sort of "Berlin Wall"-type of deal?
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>> Iowa City, IA
>> Pathfinder N56993
>> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> "Your Aviation Destination"
>>
>

[Aluckyguess]

All they have to do is go down to our local Home Depot and they could pick
up 200 of them on any day of the week. Now if they pull a truck over with
10-15 it makes the news. I just dont get it.
I do think there is going to be some sort of crack down. There is a lot of
talk on the radio these days.

[George Patterson]

Aluckyguess wrote:
>
> I think the reason they let them in is they are funding our social security
> system with phony ID's. They pay in but will never collect.

The illegals around here don't pay into the Social Security system. They don't
have those types of jobs.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Michelle P]

Perhaps we should arm the border patrol with rocks so they can return
"fire".
I was a the the Boeing Museum of flight a couple of weeks ago and saw
the first air to air weapons. Bricks cut in half. I think we should
return to these. True skill is required to hit your opponent.
Michelle

wrote:

>Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper
>Aug 25 3:31 PM US/Eastern
>
>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:4KwPe.4821$IG2.1902@trndny01...
> Aluckyguess wrote:
> >
> > I think the reason they let them in is they are funding our social
security
> > system with phony ID's. They pay in but will never collect.
>
> The illegals around here don't pay into the Social Security system. They
don't
> have those types of jobs.
>
There's also a bunch of people living near the US-Mexico border that collect
SS checks that never paid a dime into the system. They have a PO box in the
town on the US side of the border and check it once a month.

About ten years ago, I worked with a fellow who had immigrated from the old
USSR just a few months earlier. After a couple months he brought his mother
over and within a month she was drawing SS benefits since she was over 63 or
whatever. Yup...just weeks after hitting the US for the first time.

There's a neat trick practiced about coming to the US when 8 1/2 months
pregnant, then having your delivery here. Kid automatically becomes a US
citizen and Mom is entitled to all sorts of goodies.

[Matt Barrow]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
t...
>
>
> Very simple.....votes. Upset the Latino community and its all over.
>

When Arizona passed it's Prop 200, the highest percentage block voting FOR
it (some 75% or so) was the legal/2nd generation Hispanics.

[Matt Barrow]

"Michelle P" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Perhaps we should arm the border patrol with rocks so they can return
> "fire".
> I was a the the Boeing Museum of flight a couple of weeks ago and saw
> the first air to air weapons. Bricks cut in half. I think we should
> return to these. True skill is required to hit your opponent.

A "Y" shaped stick and some rubber --- a slingshot.

[Darrel Toepfer]

wrote:

> Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper

> One baseball-sized rock gashed the rotor, forcing the pilot to
> land nearby, said Michael Gramley, spokesman for the Border
> Patrol sector based in Yuma, Ariz.
---
> Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?

Maybe get that person a baseball pitching contract...

[john smith]

> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
>> I know where you are coming from Jay, my 1st wife was of hispanic
>>descent, father Nuevo Laredo, mexico and Mom from Bogota Columbia....and
>>they did not like the wide open borders either. Though my father in law
>>had a very good paying job he said the illegals kept the pay down for
>>Mexicans that were here legally.

Aluckyguess wrote:
> I never thought about that but he was right.
> I think the reason they let them in is they are funding our social security
> system with phony ID's. They pay in but will never collect.

And there are people who are working to allow them to collect that money.

[Michael]

>> Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?
> No, that would be barbaric.

Why? A rock can certainly bring down a civilian helicopter if it hits
something critical - a rotor disc, an oil or fuel line, whatever.
Military helicopters are armored against this - but as a result they
weigh a ton (literally that - or more) and cost a fortune to operate.

If this happens too low to autorotate but too high to put down without
energy, the pilot and passenger(s) will be injured or killed. Why is
it barbaric for the pilot to shoot back?

> But what is so wrong with stopping illegal immigration?

It would make servants something only the very rich could afford.

Actually, what illegal immigration does is distort our economy and
stifle progress.

Let me give you an example. Most of the pilots at my home field don't
cut their own grass. They have someone come out to do it. It's
miserable work - riding a mower in the hot sun, loading and unloading
equipment - but the price is quite reasonable. It works out to
something like $15-$20 hr on a contract basis. The guy shows up in a
truck with an old gas-powered tractor (that spews lots of hydrocarbon
into the atmosphere) and does all the work. I suspect that he clears
maybe $10/hr at best, with no benefits, when you figure in travel time
and his expenses, and it's seasonal work at that.

This (like most of the jobs illegals do) could be automated - but not
trivially. What's necessary is a mower with some intelligence. It
would know where the boundaries of the property are, and what parts of
it are to be mowed, and it would have some simple sensors to keep from
running over the neighbor's kid (or cat). It would peobably be
electric - which would mean a limited operation time, as it would have
to go back to its station and recharge every 30 minutes - but since it
would never forget what it already did, that would be no big deal. All
the pieces are there - this would be no more complicated than
industrial automation - but there's no incentive. It would cost about
$3 million to design and test the thing, and the first batch you sold
would have bugs that would need to be worked out. Since most people
wouldn't buy one (they would just hire the illegals) you would never
recoup the R&D cost - you would need to sell 50,000 of them in the
first two or three years to make it work, and the first batch would
probably cost $1000 each in such low volumes

Of course it would be a lot different if you had to pay someone a
living wage to do the job. Then the cost would be more like $60/hr,
and people would buy the thing even at $800. Of course as the volume
increased and the patents ran out, the price would fall to where there
it was cheaper than a gasoline riding mower.

This is just one example, but it's fairly typical. Cheap labor is
always the enemy of automation, and certain segments of our economy are
addicted to cheap labor. In the long run, of course, automation is
cheaper than even the cheapest labor (unless you're willing to have
people working and STILL living in a squalor most of us would find
deplorable) but the industries that develop automation can't afford to
think in the long term. If it doesn't have a 3 year payback and a 15%
ROI, it won't happen.

Michael

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT wrote:
> So I should ****-can my plans to fly for a living and go mow lawns at
> $60/hr?? Sounds like of my co-worker's wife who gets something like
> $150/hr to [get this!] braid horse manes and tails..


Of course he makes more money; look at the ****ty conditions in which he works.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Peter Clark]

On 26 Aug 2005 11:15:19 -0700, "Michael"
> wrote:


>This (like most of the jobs illegals do) could be automated - but not
>trivially. What's necessary is a mower with some intelligence. It
>would know where the boundaries of the property are, and what parts of
>it are to be mowed, and it would have some simple sensors to keep from
>running over the neighbor's kid (or cat). It would peobably be
>electric - which would mean a limited operation time, as it would have
>to go back to its station and recharge every 30 minutes - but since it
>would never forget what it already did, that would be no big deal. All
>the pieces are there - this would be no more complicated than

google search for automatic lawn mower comes up with 162,000 hits,
including production electric robotic lawn mowers already for sale...

[Aluckyguess]

"Michelle P" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Perhaps we should arm the border patrol with rocks so they can return
> "fire".
> I was a the the Boeing Museum of flight a couple of weeks ago and saw the
> first air to air weapons. Bricks cut in half. I think we should return to
> these. True skill is required to hit your opponent.
> Michelle
>
Salt rock, that will teach them.
> wrote:
>
>>Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper
>>Aug 25 3:31 PM US/Eastern
>>
>>
>

[W P Dixon]

AHHHH,
Take the ****ters out of commercial airliners for awhile and you won't
feel so bad. ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
message ...
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:43:41 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
> > wrote:
>
>>The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT wrote:
>>> So I should ****-can my plans to fly for a living and go mow lawns at
>>> $60/hr?? Sounds like of my co-worker's wife who gets something like
>>> $150/hr to [get this!] braid horse manes and tails..
>>
>>
>>Of course he makes more money; look at the ****ty conditions in which he
>>works.
>
> Cute. I just closed doors on my biz of nearly 8 years becasue I was
> tired of schleping through people's toenail clippings and wading knee
> deep in fetid water getting buildings linked up with fiber optic
> cable... THAT is a ****ty environment and I never made anywhere close
> to $150/hour.

[Andrew Gideon]

Michael wrote:

> the first batch you sold
> would have bugs that would need to be worked out

So much for the cat or kid, eh?

<Laugh>

- Andrew

[Skywise]

wrote in :

> Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper
<Snipola>

I just got done reading the 63 replies (currently) to this post.

I'm not going ot get into the illegal alien issue since that
seems to be getting addressed quite nicely.

What I want to mention is that no one has addressed the issue of
a helicopter getting hit with a baseball sized rock thrown from
the ground!

Either the guy had a hell of an arm or that chopper was pretty low.
I'd be curious to know what it was doing so low, unless it was
in the act of landing or taking off. Patrolling the border is
something best done from a bit of altitude. I would think they'd
be operating above the deadmans curve, not below it.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Darrel Toepfer]

Skywise wrote:

> What I want to mention is that no one has addressed the issue of
> a helicopter getting hit with a baseball sized rock thrown from
> the ground!

I said offer him a baseball pitching contract...

[Flyingmonk]

The ones that use real SS# also claim dependents of up to fourteen so
they get less deducted at each payday. After a year, they come back
with different SS# and these slimey employers know this and don't care.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Jay Honeck]

> The ones that use real SS# also claim dependents of up to fourteen so
> they get less deducted at each payday. After a year, they come back
> with different SS# and these slimey employers know this and don't care.

Why would they need to come back with a new SS #?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

They claim it(multiple dependents) on their W-4, but they don't file
tax return. Their weekly checks don't get taxed as much as if they
claimed 0 dependent. By not using the same SS#, they actually
disappear, (on paper). They come back as someone else or they piggy
back on some innocent person's SS#. That person will have to pay up in
the form of being evaluate as a person earning more than they really
earned.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Jim]

Are you kidding? Have you seen what a baseball can do to a rotor blade!

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
...
> Skywise wrote:
>
>> What I want to mention is that no one has addressed the issue of
>> a helicopter getting hit with a baseball sized rock thrown from
>> the ground!
>
> I said offer him a baseball pitching contract...
>

[john smith]

Flyingmonk wrote:
> They claim it(multiple dependents) on their W-4, but they don't file
> tax return. Their weekly checks don't get taxed as much as if they
> claimed 0 dependent. By not using the same SS#, they actually
> disappear, (on paper). They come back as someone else or they piggy
> back on some innocent person's SS#. That person will have to pay up in
> the form of being evaluate as a person earning more than they really
> earned.

Don't the extra "earnings" flag the IRS as under reported income when
the "owner" of the SSN files their 1040?

[Terry Spragg]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Perhaps we should arm the copter with machine guns and fire back?
>
>
> No, that would be barbaric.
>
> However, I am continually amazed at the vociferous opposition to actually
> controlling our borders. For some reason the ACLU and a host of other
> do-gooder organizations find it anathema for America to actually restrict
> immigration to legal immigrants only -- a fact that baffles me.
>
> We are friends with a family from Columbia. They came to America the hard
> way -- legally -- and have struggled over the last decade with obtaining
> green cards for their family members, and with becoming American citizens.
> It has been a tough row to hoe, and they are rightfully proud of their
> efforts and status.
>
> They are also the most vocally anti-Mexican group of people I have EVER
> known. Their attitude toward illegal immigrants borders on Fascist -- they
> simply despise them for cheating and taking the easy way -- at what they see
> as their expense -- and I am sure they would advocate following this
> poster's (I hope) tongue-in-cheek suggestion to arm the border patrol
> helicopters with machine guns.
>
> But what is so wrong with stopping illegal immigration? Why is it okay to
> fly helicopters up and down the Rio Grande 24/7 -- at huge expense -- but
> building a fence is seen as some sort of "Berlin Wall"-type of deal?


In the interst of balance...

History being what it is, how can Americans justify keeping
"illegals" out? Every single one of the old immigrants was treading
on Indian toes, killing them, drugging them, using starvation and
biological warfare against them to steal their land, only to turn
around and claim squatter's rights?

It's hypocrisy.

All Americans are already illegals, or the children of illegals, or
of those who have written laws to legalise their occupation of
Indian lands themselves. If it wasn't so disgusting, it would be
almost as funny as the guy who got a hard time entering at
Australian customs when asked if he had a criminal record, when he
replied "Is that still a requirement?"

What's that on the statue of liberty? "Send me your poor, your
downtrodden,..." Yes, them French got a funny sense of humour, all
right.

Some people got no sense at all.

Of course, no one should expect anything better from those who sign
international trade agreements and then ignore them, or who invade
foreign countries on any manufactured excuse at all, as governmental
policy dictated by commercial lobbies. I expect that right thinking
Americans would protest this chicanery in their governmental affairs.

Share the wealth or have it stolen. We are all in this together.

Tolerating illegals, even employing them because it lowers the wage
expectations of legal Mexican workers? Disgusting!

The only option left to the oppressed is surrender, infiltration and
sabotage. It's called homing chickens, or something, isn't it?

What was he doing, flying so low and close to desperate, hostiles,
economic refugees? Where the vigilantees so lazy they didn't want to
run the extra few feet to beat up some wetbacks? Is he so totally
unused to thinking that basic common sense is alien to him?

A starving man has a right to steal food from the fat. If he has
starving children, it becomes his duty, if there are no other options.

How about you? Think much? Ever heard of the golden rule?

Strange, how it all reminds me of a line from "The Worst of the
Jefferson Airplane" : "Let's not register him."

Must all Americans now wear numbers?

JWB is hundreds of years behind the Scriptures, as are some others,
it seems. What will it mean to you when your world is ending?

It is not illegal to be poor.

There is no need for a government to control every aspect of life.

Excessive taxes are wasted on war chasing the wrong fuel?

Why did the levee break? How many companies are now relieved of
their lagoon contents? Who gained from this?

Why are people in New Orleans not all driving hydrogen dirigibles
fuelled with cheap solar cell derived hydrogen? Why do their
concrete basements not float?

Could it be lack of foresight?

When will the next "hundred year storm" strike?

Could a manufacturing industry based on petroleum make do with
hydrogen from solar cell shingles in lieu of some feedstocks?

Should plastic stuff be repairable?

Are you aware it is possible to recycle sewage, electrolyzing the
water to make hydrogen from sunshine, and that dry killed dung is
good fertilizer, odourless, especially for animal feedstocks,
ethelene corn, commonly called cow corn, is used to make another
fuel, corn oil.

Some areas of New Orleans should be cropland. It is sad, I know, and
I am sorry to speak so soon, but plans must go forward.

Some vehicles should be really fuel efficient, cheap, and not taxed
like personal transport guzzler tanks. I personally would like a
backwards tricycle "bike" with two lawn chairs, rain canvas, and a
single rear mounted battery powered "Wheel motor / regenerative
brake", like on the Eliica car. These motors are easy to make,
efficient, and are made and used by the "End of the road" people,
somewhere, from old brake disks and glued on magnets to make
windmills. The automotive motor adapter, electronic controllers,
are really simple, actually. Many "boomer" car stereos use more
power transistors and magnets.

What new industries?

Terry K -SofDevCo- Communications is our most valuable resource.

I am sorry to jump on this bandwagon so quick, but some things have
got to be done soon, and plans must look forward.

[Darrel Toepfer]

Terry Spragg wrote:

> In the interst of balance...
>
> History being what it is, how can Americans justify keeping
> "illegals" out? Every single one of the old immigrants was treading
> on Indian toes, killing them, drugging them, using starvation and
> biological warfare against them to steal their land, only to turn
> around and claim squatter's rights?

Kennewick Man was here before them...
http://www.friendsofpast.org

[Dave Stadt]

>
> In the interst of balance...
>
> History being what it is, how can Americans justify keeping
> "illegals" out? Every single one of the old immigrants was treading
> on Indian toes, killing them, drugging them, using starvation and
> biological warfare against them to steal their land, only to turn
> around and claim squatter's rights?
>
> It's hypocrisy.

Psssst Terry....you need to study history a little better. There is strong
evidence the Indians killed off earlier civilizations using the very
techniques you mentioned. They also had no qualms about killing each other
in what ever horrible method they could think up.

[Flyingmonk]

Yes, that's why they use each ss# for one year only, and it will
probably take the IRS years to find each fraudulent filing. Plus, the
IRS does not audit every single filing/claim.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone