New Co-axial kit helicopter

[Blue]

Interesting new co-axial from Russia. Not too much info yet as it is a
prototype. However all static and ground tests made, flying time only 12
hours. More info will be available after all tests. Check out these web
sites for info.

http://www.airtrikes.net/heli.jpg

http://delta.wtr.ru/wtboard/40671.shtml

www.clubrotor.ru

[Shiver]

> Blue > wrote:

> Interesting new co-axial from Russia. Not too much info yet as it is a
> prototype. However all static and ground tests made, flying time only 12
> hours. More info will be available after all tests. Check out these web
> sites for info.
>
> http://www.airtrikes.net/heli.jpg
>
> http://delta.wtr.ru/wtboard/40671.shtml
>
> www.clubrotor.ru

Well that's a good looking little ship.

Powered by a four cyliner if my tired eyes are seeing correct.

[Blue]

Yep, thats a 912ULS sitting up there.

--

Regards

Blue

"Shiver" > wrote in message
...
>> Blue > wrote:
>
>> Interesting new co-axial from Russia. Not too much info yet as it is a
>> prototype. However all static and ground tests made, flying time only 12
>> hours. More info will be available after all tests. Check out these web
>> sites for info.
>>
>> http://www.airtrikes.net/heli.jpg
>>
>> http://delta.wtr.ru/wtboard/40671.shtml
>>
>> www.clubrotor.ru
>
> Well that's a good looking little ship.
>
> Powered by a four cyliner if my tired eyes are seeing correct.

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Very interesting. I can't see any pitch control linkage to the blades.
Don't read Russian, but do they say anything about autorotation?

--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"Blue" > wrote in message
u...
> Interesting new co-axial from Russia. Not too much info yet as it is a
> prototype. However all static and ground tests made, flying time only 12
> hours. More info will be available after all tests. Check out these web
> sites for info.
>
> http://www.airtrikes.net/heli.jpg
>
> http://delta.wtr.ru/wtboard/40671.shtml
>
> www.clubrotor.ru
>
>
>
>

[Peter Seddon]

This website gives quite an interesting history of Kamov who have been
making co-axials for many years
http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/people/kamov/index_2.html and are the makers
of this latest one.

On this latest single place the lower swashplate is visible in some photos
and it looks like the pitch arms for the upper rotor go down the center of
the main shaft.

Regards Peter


"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
...
> Very interesting. I can't see any pitch control linkage to the blades.
> Don't read Russian, but do they say anything about autorotation?
>
> --
> Stuart Fields
> Experimental Helo magazine
> P. O. Box 1585
> Inyokern, CA 93527
> (760) 377-4478
> (760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
> (760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell
>
> www.vkss.com
> www.experimentalhelo.com
>
>
> "Blue" > wrote in message
> u...
>> Interesting new co-axial from Russia. Not too much info yet as it is a
>> prototype. However all static and ground tests made, flying time only 12
>> hours. More info will be available after all tests. Check out these web
>> sites for info.
>>
>> http://www.airtrikes.net/heli.jpg
>>
>> http://delta.wtr.ru/wtboard/40671.shtml
>>
>> www.clubrotor.ru
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Simon Robbins]

"Blue" > wrote in message
u...
> Interesting new co-axial from Russia. Not too much info yet as it is a
> prototype. However all static and ground tests made, flying time only 12
> hours. More info will be available after all tests. Check out these web
> sites for info.

Beautiful looking machine. How does one go about type rating training on a
single seater, btw?

Si

[Flyingmonk]

Thanks for posting this! Very interesting indeed... Where's Dave
Jackson? Comments Dave?

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Terry Spragg]

Peter Seddon wrote:
> This website gives quite an interesting history of Kamov who have been
> making co-axials for many years
> http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/people/kamov/index_2.html and are the makers
> of this latest one.
>
> On this latest single place the lower swashplate is visible in some photos
> and it looks like the pitch arms for the upper rotor go down the center of
> the main shaft.
>
> Regards Peter
>
>
> "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Very interesting. I can't see any pitch control linkage to the blades.
>>Don't read Russian, but do they say anything about autorotation?
>>

I don't see any evidence of pitch links at all, unless they are
hydraulic, with rotating hydraulic joints, hydraulic tubes inside
the shafts, and very small actuators.

For autorotation, it could use engine torque actuated linkages to
adjust collective for autorotation. If engine torque goes to zero,
pitch goes to negative, pilot alarm is momentary negative gees and
imposed descent - forced autorotation on power loss. I suggested
such an idea several years ago on this forum. You don't think they
stole my idea? Or maybe they adjust pitch by moving the relative
position of three concentric rotating shafts up and down a half inch
or so? There might not be any cyclic control at all.

Why not?

Yaw control by differential rotor torque and tailfin in downwash /
slipstream?

Now, if it was only quiet enough to tolerate in your back yard,
everyone would want one. The tranny design is a doddle kept secret
by commercial mil / ind complex, its an automotive differential,
with one half turned inside out.

Terry K

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Terry: Your description sounds interesting but it also sounds like side
translation would not be possible without cyclic which would make hovering
quite a dance.

--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"Terry Spragg" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Seddon wrote:
> > This website gives quite an interesting history of Kamov who have been
> > making co-axials for many years
> > http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/people/kamov/index_2.html and are the
makers
> > of this latest one.
> >
> > On this latest single place the lower swashplate is visible in some
photos
> > and it looks like the pitch arms for the upper rotor go down the center
of
> > the main shaft.
> >
> > Regards Peter
> >
> >
> > "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Very interesting. I can't see any pitch control linkage to the blades.
> >>Don't read Russian, but do they say anything about autorotation?
> >>
>
> I don't see any evidence of pitch links at all, unless they are
> hydraulic, with rotating hydraulic joints, hydraulic tubes inside
> the shafts, and very small actuators.
>
> For autorotation, it could use engine torque actuated linkages to
> adjust collective for autorotation. If engine torque goes to zero,
> pitch goes to negative, pilot alarm is momentary negative gees and
> imposed descent - forced autorotation on power loss. I suggested
> such an idea several years ago on this forum. You don't think they
> stole my idea? Or maybe they adjust pitch by moving the relative
> position of three concentric rotating shafts up and down a half inch
> or so? There might not be any cyclic control at all.
>
> Why not?
>
> Yaw control by differential rotor torque and tailfin in downwash /
> slipstream?
>
> Now, if it was only quiet enough to tolerate in your back yard,
> everyone would want one. The tranny design is a doddle kept secret
> by commercial mil / ind complex, its an automotive differential,
> with one half turned inside out.
>
> Terry K
>

[Peter Seddon]

This was the pic that made me think the pitch links go down the main shaft
for the top rotor. http://www.clubrotor.ru/album/gel8.jpg

The pic also shows the botton swash and pitch links.

All the kamaov machines that I have seen on their webiste have both rotors
controlled by pitch links.

Regards Peter


"Terry Spragg" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Seddon wrote:
>> This website gives quite an interesting history of Kamov who have been
>> making co-axials for many years
>> http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/people/kamov/index_2.html and are the
>> makers of this latest one.
>>
>> On this latest single place the lower swashplate is visible in some
>> photos and it looks like the pitch arms for the upper rotor go down the
>> center of the main shaft.
>>
>> Regards Peter
>>
>>
>> "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Very interesting. I can't see any pitch control linkage to the blades.
>>>Don't read Russian, but do they say anything about autorotation?
>>>
>
> I don't see any evidence of pitch links at all, unless they are hydraulic,
> with rotating hydraulic joints, hydraulic tubes inside the shafts, and
> very small actuators.
>
> For autorotation, it could use engine torque actuated linkages to adjust
> collective for autorotation. If engine torque goes to zero, pitch goes to
> negative, pilot alarm is momentary negative gees and imposed descent -
> forced autorotation on power loss. I suggested such an idea several years
> ago on this forum. You don't think they stole my idea? Or maybe they
> adjust pitch by moving the relative position of three concentric rotating
> shafts up and down a half inch or so? There might not be any cyclic
> control at all.
>
> Why not?
>
> Yaw control by differential rotor torque and tailfin in downwash /
> slipstream?
>
> Now, if it was only quiet enough to tolerate in your back yard, everyone
> would want one. The tranny design is a doddle kept secret by commercial
> mil / ind complex, its an automotive differential, with one half turned
> inside out.
>
> Terry K
>

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Peter: Thanks, that picture definitely shows the pitch links on the top
blades. However, look at the mass of engine and transmission mounted so
high. To avoid a nose-over, all slide on landings should be conducted
either on ice or a teflon coated airstrip. Alternatively the skids should
be extended out front considerably farther...Dynamic roll overs should be a
lot easier in this bird also. That said, I wish them luck in developing
their pretty bird.. I will definitely have a mention in the next magazine
and use this photo.
Thanks

--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"Peter Seddon" > wrote in message
...
> This was the pic that made me think the pitch links go down the main shaft
> for the top rotor. http://www.clubrotor.ru/album/gel8.jpg
>
> The pic also shows the botton swash and pitch links.
>
> All the kamaov machines that I have seen on their webiste have both rotors
> controlled by pitch links.
>
> Regards Peter
>
>
> "Terry Spragg" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Peter Seddon wrote:
> >> This website gives quite an interesting history of Kamov who have been
> >> making co-axials for many years
> >> http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/people/kamov/index_2.html and are the
> >> makers of this latest one.
> >>
> >> On this latest single place the lower swashplate is visible in some
> >> photos and it looks like the pitch arms for the upper rotor go down the
> >> center of the main shaft.
> >>
> >> Regards Peter
> >>
> >>
> >> "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>Very interesting. I can't see any pitch control linkage to the blades.
> >>>Don't read Russian, but do they say anything about autorotation?
> >>>
> >
> > I don't see any evidence of pitch links at all, unless they are
hydraulic,
> > with rotating hydraulic joints, hydraulic tubes inside the shafts, and
> > very small actuators.
> >
> > For autorotation, it could use engine torque actuated linkages to adjust
> > collective for autorotation. If engine torque goes to zero, pitch goes
to
> > negative, pilot alarm is momentary negative gees and imposed descent -
> > forced autorotation on power loss. I suggested such an idea several
years
> > ago on this forum. You don't think they stole my idea? Or maybe they
> > adjust pitch by moving the relative position of three concentric
rotating
> > shafts up and down a half inch or so? There might not be any cyclic
> > control at all.
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> > Yaw control by differential rotor torque and tailfin in downwash /
> > slipstream?
> >
> > Now, if it was only quiet enough to tolerate in your back yard, everyone
> > would want one. The tranny design is a doddle kept secret by commercial
> > mil / ind complex, its an automotive differential, with one half turned
> > inside out.
> >
> > Terry K
> >
>
>