New Orleans Lakefront Airport

[Dan Luke]

CNN video: NEW looks bad; partially under water. Heavy damage to most
buildings, particularly the large Millionaire FBO west of 18/36.

Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip to
Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[sfb]

There is an AP story about the Federal disaster response. The FAA took
so much damage, that they are waiting for roads to clear before trucking
in new equipment.

Maybe, forever. In Charlotte County, Florida, Charley took out what is
estimated as the equivalent of ten years of the 2004 rate of new
construction.

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> CNN video: NEW looks bad; partially under water. Heavy damage to most
> buildings, particularly the large Millionaire FBO west of 18/36.
>
> Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip to
> Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

Dan
how bad did Gulfport get hit? I'm scheduled back in there on 20Sept vis
strike bound NWA. How about BFM? Area??????
Rocky

[Peter R.]

> wrote:

> how bad did Gulfport get hit? I'm scheduled back in there on 20Sept vis
> strike bound NWA. How about BFM? Area??????

Something's telling you not to go.

--
Peter
























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[Michelle P]

I just go an email from Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic stating we may be
called to fly in supplies to the nearest suitable airport. Looks like I
may end up as part of the disaster response.
Michelle

sfb wrote:

>There is an AP story about the Federal disaster response. The FAA took
>so much damage, that they are waiting for roads to clear before trucking
>in new equipment.
>
>Maybe, forever. In Charlotte County, Florida, Charley took out what is
>estimated as the equivalent of ten years of the 2004 rate of new
>construction.
>
>"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>CNN video: NEW looks bad; partially under water. Heavy damage to most
>>buildings, particularly the large Millionaire FBO west of 18/36.
>>
>>Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip to
>>Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?
>>
>>--
>>Dan
>>C172RG at BFM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[sfb]

Took the brunt of the bigger storm surges. The Bay St. Louis bridge is
gone. The Biloxi-Ocean Springs bridge is severely damaged. US 90 is
damaged and impassable.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Dan
> how bad did Gulfport get hit? I'm scheduled back in there on 20Sept
> vis
> strike bound NWA. How about BFM? Area??????
> Rocky
>

[Roger Long]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...


> Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip
> to Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?
>


It will be a while.

When I did this job:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm#Dimillo

The drydock was pumped down to put the ferry in at night because
electric rates were cheaper. The drydock was the largest connected
electric load in Maine and it would have cost $150,000 to pump it 15
feet down and 15 feet up in the day time. It still cost plenty to do
it at night. Presumably, they will pump New Orleans 24 hours a day.

The drydock was about 900 x 120 feet = 108,000 square feet. New
Orleans, now flooded to about the same depth is 5,000,000,000 square
feet or 46,464 times as large. At the daytime energy prices of Maine
a decade ago, it would therefore cost $6,969,600,000 to pump the city
out. The discharges on the drydock pumps were only about 100 feet
long and the city pumps have the head losses of many hundreds of feet
in some cases. Energy prices are going to be way higher by the time
they get this system running. It might be cheaper to just leave it as
a lake and rebuild somewhere else.

A FEMA manager said yesterday that some young staffers just starting
will still be working on the aftermath of Katrina when they retire.

--

Roger Long

[[email protected]]

Roger Long wrote:
> "Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> > Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip
> > to Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?
> >
>
>
> It will be a while.
>

One of the biggest problems that they have is that most of the big
pumping stations are diesel powered pumps and require constant manning.
If I remember correctly they only have something like 5 days worth of
fuel at each station.

Craig C.

[Roger Long]

Can you imagine what the cost of diesel fuel is going to be by the
time they finish this project? We may be glad most of us are still
burning 100LL. Of course, since that cost will be added to the cost
of everything that moves by truck, a lot of us aren't going to be able
to continue flying anyway.

--

Roger Long

[sfb]

That won't be a problem as they need to repair Lake Pontchartrain levees
first since they pump into the lake.

Some of this reporting has to be taken in context of the fog of war. The
AP reports the I-10 bridge damage will shut down long haul east-west
traffic totally ignoring that I-12 bypasses New Orleans north of the
lake.

> wrote in message >
> One of the biggest problems that they have is that most of the big
> pumping stations are diesel powered pumps and require constant
> manning.
> If I remember correctly they only have something like 5 days worth of
> fuel at each station.
>
> Craig C.
>

[Don Tuite]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:35:01 GMT, "Roger Long" >
wrote:

> It might be cheaper to just leave it as
>a lake and rebuild somewhere else.

Make it the Venice of the South? A vapporetto named Desire?

Don
(Serious, not mocking.)

[Dan Luke]

> wrote:

> Dan
> how bad did Gulfport get hit? I'm scheduled back in there on 20Sept
> vis
> strike bound NWA.

Gulfport is totally trashed, Rocky.

> How about BFM? Area??????

BFM has some more hangar damage, looks mostly ok. The tower is working.
The airspace is closed by TFR.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Chris]

"sfb" > wrote in message news:QRoRe.17270$k32.335@trnddc08...
> That won't be a problem as they need to repair Lake Pontchartrain levees
> first since they pump into the lake.
>
> Some of this reporting has to be taken in context of the fog of war. The
> AP reports the I-10 bridge damage will shut down long haul east-west
> traffic totally ignoring that I-12 bypasses New Orleans north of the lake.

Fog of war - what crap!

[Mike Weller]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:49:11 -0500, "Dan Luke"
> wrote:


Dan,

I hope that I can help some.

I've got a whole household of furniture and everything else from my
Mom's (RIP) that I would love to give to someone who needs it.

Mike Weller

[Mike Weller]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:51:05 +0100, "Chris" >
wrote:

>
>"
>> Some of this reporting has to be taken in context of the fog of war. The
>> AP reports the I-10 bridge damage will shut down long haul east-west
>> traffic totally ignoring that I-12 bypasses New Orleans north of the lake.
>
>Fog of war - what crap!
>

I wondered about that too.

Is Mother nature something about war?

Mike Weller

[Dan Luke]

"Mike Weller" wrote:
>
> I hope that I can help some.
>
> I've got a whole household of furniture and everything else from my
> Mom's (RIP) that I would love to give to someone who needs it.

I suggest you get in touch with Goodwill or the Salvation Army, Mike.
I'm sure they could find plenty of takers.

[[email protected]]

Dan Luke wrote:
> CNN video: NEW looks bad; partially under water. Heavy damage to most
> buildings, particularly the large Millionaire FBO west of 18/36.
>
> Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip to
> Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?

Make that $200, since the land-lubbers gas prices went from $2.77 to
$3.31, in 3 days.

JG

[Hilton]

Michelle P wrote:
> I just go an email from Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic stating we may be
> called to fly in supplies to the nearest suitable airport. Looks like I
> may end up as part of the disaster response.

Just in from AFW: "I just recently was notified that AFSC and AFSE are
presently flying rescue workers into the impacted areas."

Hilton

[W P Dixon]

Actually Mike,
If you have anyway that you can physically take it down there and give it
to someone it would be great. As most donations to Goodwill and the
Salvation Army are SOLD to people who need it and often at a price that
someone could have bought used furniture out of the newspaper. That being
said, I applaud your generosity. It's folks like yourself that make the
difference.
Hey maybe for the Katrina disaster you could make one of the charity
groups promise in writing that it would not be sold but given to a needy
family, but then you pretty much have to trust them to do the right thing.
Sometimes it's just hard to make sure your help is actually making it to the
people who need the help the most.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Weller" wrote:
>>
>> I hope that I can help some.
>>
>> I've got a whole household of furniture and everything else from my
>> Mom's (RIP) that I would love to give to someone who needs it.
>
> I suggest you get in touch with Goodwill or the Salvation Army, Mike. I'm
> sure they could find plenty of takers.
>

[W P Dixon]

I hope you have the time and get the chance to go help out Michelle. I'll
thank you in advance for alot of folks who would like to, but won't get the
chance to thank you in person. I encourage anyone who can help in any way no
matter how big or small to please do so. We will have to help ourselves and
our neighbors,...can't expect on much help from anywhere else.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

> Michelle P wrote:
>> I just go an email from Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic stating we may be
>> called to fly in supplies to the nearest suitable airport. Looks like I
>> may end up as part of the disaster response.
>

[iflyatiger]

HELLO !!



Has anybody watched the tv lately? Do you see what those poor people are
going thru..

For them it is a life and death situation.. Maybe we (including me)
shouldn't be so concerned about the price of gas right now.



Not aimed at anyone in particular, just something to think about..

[Doug]

Fill it with dirt. Raise the houses that can be saved on new
foundations. Make the skyscrapers bottom floor a basement. Then when it
happens again, it won't flood everything. And sure, make some canals
with longboats for the tourists while you are at it.
Might not be as crazy as it sounds. No higher terrain anywhere nearby
to move to.

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Chris" > writes:

> "sfb" wrote:
> > [...] Some of this reporting has to be taken in context of the fog
> > of war. [...]

> Fog of war - what crap!

No, just a literary technique called "metaphor".

- FChE

[Denny]

We toured New Orleans in April... It was supposed to be a flying
vacation, but the weather (no surprise there) intervened and we
drove... The high spots on the expressway along the West and South
sides of Lake Ponchartrain that are now sticking out of the flood on
the TV News are roadways we drove along... From New Orleans we drove
the coast to Florida (and other places for 4,000 miles)... Many of the
bridges, highways and towns now in the news as destroyed we passed
through, some of the towns we stopped and visited, had lunch, etc.. I
get a knot in the pit of my stomach as I watch the video feeds on
CNN... It's a bit hard to comprehend emotionally, though
intellectually I understand...

If we were rational people we would forbid the flood areas of the
hurricane coast for towns, only allow by law dirt roads, grass runways,
and fish camps, and forbid any use of public monies for reconstruction
after a hurricane... But then, we are not rational and there is not a
politician alive with the cajones to bring it up... Instead, the
politicians will pour billions of tax dollars into reconstruction of
these disaster areas, people will flood back in, and down the road it
will all happen over again - and the tax payer who has the smarts to
live in a less scenic, boring, but more stable part of the country gets
to pay for it all over... And the billions spent reconstructing New
Orleans and the coastal flood plains, monies that should have been
spent for dredging the intercoastal waterways and harbors and rivers,
money that should have been spent on repairing the highways and the
deteriorating runways of municipal airports, monies that should have
been spent improving the National Parks, monies that should have been
spent on hospitals, monies that should have been spent on education,
monies that should have been spent securing the borders against illegal
penetration, monies that should have been spent insuring that not one
freighter enters a U.S. harbor before a complete inspection for
terrorist weapons, and on, and on; those monies will have been flushed
down the drain rebuilding roads, houses, skyscrapers, domes for
multimillionaire athletes who cannot complete a coherent sentence, and
of course levees to store water so it can flood New Orleans again,
someday...

Do you comprehend what even a fraction of 1% of what the politicians
are going to give away to rebuild this flood plain would do for GA if
applied to airports across the country? There would not be a crumbling
ramp or runway left in the country without a shiny, new, surface...
Every airstrip, no matter how humble, would have a GPS approach
plate... Real time weather feeds to the Garmin 396 in your airplane,
and your boat, and your car, would be free, no monthly charge...
Aviation charts would be mailed free of charge to every pilot with a
valid medical, upon request... And there would be money left over...
But then, we are not rational, as I mentioned..

denny

[[email protected]]

Chris wrote:
> "sfb" > wrote in message news:QRoRe.17270$k32.335@trnddc08...
> > That won't be a problem as they need to repair Lake Pontchartrain levees
> > first since they pump into the lake.
> >
> > Some of this reporting has to be taken in context of the fog of war. The
> > AP reports the I-10 bridge damage will shut down long haul east-west
> > traffic totally ignoring that I-12 bypasses New Orleans north of the lake.
>
> Fog of war - what crap!

After 9/11 "experts" were saying that it could take years to clean up
Ground Zero. In the end it took about 9 months.

This is the country that built the Panama Canal and put men on the moon
in under a decade. *If* we actually agree on getting something done,
nobody does it faster than us.

-cwk.

[Jay Honeck]

> Do you comprehend what even a fraction of 1% of what the politicians
> are going to give away to rebuild this flood plain would do for GA if
> applied to airports across the country? There would not be a crumbling
> ramp or runway left in the country without a shiny, new, surface...
> Every airstrip, no matter how humble, would have a GPS approach
> plate... Real time weather feeds to the Garmin 396 in your airplane,
> and your boat, and your car, would be free, no monthly charge...
> Aviation charts would be mailed free of charge to every pilot with a
> valid medical, upon request... And there would be money left over...
> But then, we are not rational, as I mentioned..

Well said, Denny. It is to weep...not for the lost, but for the ones who
"get it"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"iflyatiger" > wrote in message
...
> HELLO !!
>
>
>
> Has anybody watched the tv lately? Do you see what those poor people are
> going thru..
>
> For them it is a life and death situation.. Maybe we (including me)
> shouldn't be so concerned about the price of gas right now.
>
>
>
> Not aimed at anyone in particular, just something to think about..
>
>


Yes the citizens of the New Orleans area are indeed suffering and there has
been many the off topic post here talking about helping them BUT the price
and availability of petro products is going to effect all of us including
them. There are some pretty bad worst case scenarios out there.

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 08:55:29 +0200, Martin Hotze
> wrote in >::

>Michelle P > wrote:
>
>> I just go an email from Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic stating we may be
>> called to fly in supplies to the nearest suitable airport. Looks like I
>> may end up as part of the disaster response.
>
>This is a heck of a good chance to show the public (and the media) the
>worth of GA and those tiny spamcans.

Are you suggesting Michelle contact the national news media prior to
her Angel Flight flight(s)? Excellent idea.

[Dan Luke]

"Hilton" wrote:

> Just in from AFW: "I just recently was notified that AFSC and AFSE are
> presently flying rescue workers into the impacted areas."

I haven't heard this from AFSE. They have a couple of missions for
stranded refugees, but that's it.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Morgans" wrote:

> We all need to start serious conservation, and NOW. To delay will
> only make
> things worse.

Agree. An easy conservation move is simply to slow down. I'm driving
55--being passed by heedless nitwits still doing 80--until the current
unpleasantness is over.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Morgans]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote

>
> Yes the citizens of the New Orleans area are indeed suffering and there
has
> been many the off topic post here talking about helping them BUT the price
> and availability of petro products is going to effect all of us including
> them. There are some pretty bad worst case scenarios out there.

Damn straight. I don't like the price, but can and will pay it. When the
talk of massive shortages, due to the pipeline being down, and reduced
refinery output, you have to wonder if you will have enough gas to get to
work. What then?

We all need to start serious conservation, and NOW. To delay will only make
things worse.
--
Jim in NC
--
Jim in NC

[nrp]

"An easy conservation move is simply to slow down. I'm driving
55--being passed........."

I completely agree. But why is it that if I even suggest it to anyone
they can't even understand the need for it. Either the supply has to
increase or the demand reduced to bring the price down - and neither is
happening. In that case only alternative is to raise the price.

At least fuel is still available. Price control etc would just make it
disappear from the market. Thank goodness no one is talking that -
except in Hawaii.

[Matt Whiting]

nrp wrote:

> "An easy conservation move is simply to slow down. I'm driving
> 55--being passed........."
>
> I completely agree. But why is it that if I even suggest it to anyone
> they can't even understand the need for it. Either the supply has to
> increase or the demand reduced to bring the price down - and neither is
> happening. In that case only alternative is to raise the price.
>
> At least fuel is still available. Price control etc would just make it
> disappear from the market. Thank goodness no one is talking that -
> except in Hawaii.
>

As much as I hate paying $3.19 (today's price, up 40 cents in the last
two days), this is likely the best thing to ever happen here with regard
to energy. Maybe the urban and suburban folks will realize that farmers
need large pickups, but soccer moms and yuppies don't.

Also, it may, just may, spur the serious development of alternative
energy and transportation options. Then again, I'm probably being
optimistic.


Matt

[john smith]

nrp wrote:
> At least fuel is still available.

Hmmm??? Kinda makes one wonder if there really is a shortage, doesn't it?
If there were truely a shortage nationwide, wouldn't you expect many
stations to be closed?
How many gas stations in your area are closed because they cannot get gas?

[Dan Luke]

"john smith" wrote:

>> At least fuel is still available.
>
> Hmmm??? Kinda makes one wonder if there really is a shortage, doesn't
> it?
> If there were truely a shortage nationwide, wouldn't you expect many
> stations to be closed?
> How many gas stations in your area are closed because they cannot get
> gas?


More than half of them.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[George Patterson]

john smith wrote:
>
> Hmmm??? Kinda makes one wonder if there really is a shortage, doesn't it?

Nope.

> If there were truely a shortage nationwide, wouldn't you expect many
> stations to be closed?

Most stations can go about a week before the tanks run dry. Of course, when they
close depends on when they last filled up.

> How many gas stations in your area are closed because they cannot get gas?

We get our gas from overseas in this area. You're going to see shortages in
areas that are usually supplied from the Gulf refineries.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Morgans]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Morgans" wrote:
>
> > We all need to start serious conservation, and NOW. To delay will
> > only make
> > things worse.
>
> Agree. An easy conservation move is simply to slow down. I'm driving
> 55--being passed by heedless nitwits still doing 80--until the current
> unpleasantness is over.

Me too, and carpooling, when possible.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"nrp" > wrote

> At least fuel is still available.

That is not a given, in my area. The pipeline, we get most of our fuel
from, runs from Texas, through Louisiana, and Mississippi, among others, on
its way to the East coast. It is out of action, mainly due to no
electricity for the pumping stations. Tanker drivers are going from
terminal, to terminal, trying to find a place that will give them the fuel
that they need. When they do get fuel, it is not a full load.

I am deeply concerned, not only for the homeless along the coast, but for my
ability to be able to get to work, and for others and the economy around
here.

What will happen? I don't know.
--
Jim in NC

[Darrel Toepfer]

Matt Whiting wrote:

> As much as I hate paying $3.19 (today's price, up 40 cents in the last
> two days), this is likely the best thing to ever happen here with regard
> to energy. Maybe the urban and suburban folks will realize that farmers
> need large pickups, but soccer moms and yuppies don't.

Our area farmers can't afford the fuel prices when they were "good" as
compared to now. Many here have simply started raising cattle. Rice,
soybeans, sugercane and wheat can't produce a profit at the current
market price they bring...

[Mike Rapoport]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote
>
>>
>> Yes the citizens of the New Orleans area are indeed suffering and there
> has
>> been many the off topic post here talking about helping them BUT the
>> price
>> and availability of petro products is going to effect all of us including
>> them. There are some pretty bad worst case scenarios out there.
>
> Damn straight. I don't like the price, but can and will pay it. When the
> talk of massive shortages, due to the pipeline being down, and reduced
> refinery output, you have to wonder if you will have enough gas to get to
> work. What then?
>
> We all need to start serious conservation, and NOW. To delay will only
> make
> things worse.
> --
> Jim in NC
> --
> Jim in NC


Too bad the president doesn't just come out and act Presidential and ask
everybody to try to cut their gasoline usage by 10% until the shortage is
resolved....Kennedy would have done this, Nixon would have, Carter would
have, Reagan would have...

Mike
MU-2

[Mike Rapoport]

There are shortages in some markets like Baton Rouge but its not just
gasoline, its everything. I have a partner who lived in New Orleans and is
now in Houston, here are no suitable apartments availible in Houston or
hotel rooms. There are a lot of people on the move.

I've been watching the relief effort on TV. While the front line
police/fire/ambulence/NG people are all doing great things, the planning
authorities really f*cked this one up. If I was expecting ten thousand or
more people to show up somewhere and expected them to stay for more than a
couple of hours, I would at least have plenty of water on hand. If I had
ten thousand people without food or water and I had to move them, I wouldn't
take two days to get started and I wouldn't delay the evacuation to put FEMA
and US flag stickers on the buses first. If I had tens of thousands of
people without food, water, sanitation and without law enforcement, I
wouldn't activate the NG one unit at a time, I would activate them all at
once and try to borrow units from neighboring states too. Even us dopes in
N Idaho knew the Gulf Coast was going to get pasted several days beforehand.
Why does it seem that it was too complicated for the city/state/federal
professionaly to figure out what to do?

Mike
MU-2


"john smith" > wrote in message
. ..
> nrp wrote:
>> At least fuel is still available.
>
> Hmmm??? Kinda makes one wonder if there really is a shortage, doesn't it?
> If there were truely a shortage nationwide, wouldn't you expect many
> stations to be closed?
> How many gas stations in your area are closed because they cannot get gas?

[sfb]

The NG requires food and water and trucks that use gasoline on passable
roads. You can't bring warm bodies in to help until you have the support
they need to survive. The old saying is generals win battles and the
logistics types win wars.

The northern Idaho crystal ball is pretty damn good. Maybe you could
lend it to the National Weather Service. 72 hours before Katrina hit
New Orleans it was off Naples, Florida with hurricane watches and
warnings on the west coast of Florida. She didn't even get north of the
Tampa Bay latitude until early Sunday.

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> There are shortages in some markets like Baton Rouge but its not just
> gasoline, its everything. I have a partner who lived in New Orleans
> and is now in Houston, here are no suitable apartments availible in
> Houston or hotel rooms. There are a lot of people on the move.
>
> I've been watching the relief effort on TV. While the front line
> police/fire/ambulence/NG people are all doing great things, the
> planning authorities really f*cked this one up. If I was expecting
> ten thousand or more people to show up somewhere and expected them to
> stay for more than a couple of hours, I would at least have plenty of
> water on hand. If I had ten thousand people without food or water and
> I had to move them, I wouldn't take two days to get started and I
> wouldn't delay the evacuation to put FEMA and US flag stickers on the
> buses first. If I had tens of thousands of people without food,
> water, sanitation and without law enforcement, I wouldn't activate the
> NG one unit at a time, I would activate them all at once and try to
> borrow units from neighboring states too. Even us dopes in N Idaho
> knew the Gulf Coast was going to get pasted several days beforehand.
> Why does it seem that it was too complicated for the
> city/state/federal professionaly to figure out what to do?
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> nrp wrote:
>>> At least fuel is still available.
>>
>> Hmmm??? Kinda makes one wonder if there really is a shortage, doesn't
>> it?
>> If there were truely a shortage nationwide, wouldn't you expect many
>> stations to be closed?
>> How many gas stations in your area are closed because they cannot get
>> gas?
>
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Martin,

> with all the oil and waste etc?
>

Check on the status of the Venice water...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

> This is the country that built the Panama Canal and put men on the moon
> in under a decade.
>

It's also the country running the space shuttle...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Denny]

At my place on Manasota Key I pay $0.50 PER GALLON for water... Have
for years... A tip for the investor, invest in water companies...

denny

[George Patterson]

Martin Hotze wrote:
>
> Venice exists probably longer than the whole US.

So has New Orleans.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[john smith]

>> Venice exists probably longer than the whole US.

> So has New Orleans.

Don't forget the Netherlands!

[Mike Rapoport]

Our crystal ball (aka TWC) only fortold that the Gulf Coast would be hit,
not NO specifically. The point is that little or no pre-landfall
preparation seems to have taken place. A few water trucks and a thousand
dollars worth of paper cups at the superdome would have gone a long way as
would a couple of large generators and a diesel truck to fuel them (all
availible at the local equipment rental company). There are people who's
job is to think of this stuff and they had decades to think it through. I
find their performance unsatisfactory. The outcome of a levee breach at NO
has been feature on almost every hurricane show I have ever watched on TV.
This shouldn't have been a surprise.

Mike
MU-2


"sfb" > wrote in message news:qsRRe.8105$__1.3116@trnddc07...
> The NG requires food and water and trucks that use gasoline on passable
> roads. You can't bring warm bodies in to help until you have the support
> they need to survive. The old saying is generals win battles and the
> logistics types win wars.
>
> The northern Idaho crystal ball is pretty damn good. Maybe you could lend
> it to the National Weather Service. 72 hours before Katrina hit New
> Orleans it was off Naples, Florida with hurricane watches and warnings on
> the west coast of Florida. She didn't even get north of the Tampa Bay
> latitude until early Sunday.
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> There are shortages in some markets like Baton Rouge but its not just
>> gasoline, its everything. I have a partner who lived in New Orleans and
>> is now in Houston, here are no suitable apartments availible in Houston
>> or hotel rooms. There are a lot of people on the move.
>>
>> I've been watching the relief effort on TV. While the front line
>> police/fire/ambulence/NG people are all doing great things, the planning
>> authorities really f*cked this one up. If I was expecting ten thousand
>> or more people to show up somewhere and expected them to stay for more
>> than a couple of hours, I would at least have plenty of water on hand.
>> If I had ten thousand people without food or water and I had to move
>> them, I wouldn't take two days to get started and I wouldn't delay the
>> evacuation to put FEMA and US flag stickers on the buses first. If I had
>> tens of thousands of people without food, water, sanitation and without
>> law enforcement, I wouldn't activate the NG one unit at a time, I would
>> activate them all at once and try to borrow units from neighboring states
>> too. Even us dopes in N Idaho knew the Gulf Coast was going to get
>> pasted several days beforehand. Why does it seem that it was too
>> complicated for the city/state/federal professionaly to figure out what
>> to do?
>>
>> Mike
>> MU-2
>>
>>
>> "john smith" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> nrp wrote:
>>>> At least fuel is still available.
>>>
>>> Hmmm??? Kinda makes one wonder if there really is a shortage, doesn't
>>> it?
>>> If there were truely a shortage nationwide, wouldn't you expect many
>>> stations to be closed?
>>> How many gas stations in your area are closed because they cannot get
>>> gas?
>>
>>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Our crystal ball (aka TWC) only fortold that the Gulf Coast would be hit,
> not NO specifically. The point is that little or no pre-landfall
> preparation seems to have taken place. A few water trucks and a thousand
> dollars worth of paper cups at the superdome would have gone a long way as
> would a couple of large generators and a diesel truck to fuel them (all
> availible at the local equipment rental company). There are people who's
> job is to think of this stuff and they had decades to think it through. I
> find their performance unsatisfactory. The outcome of a levee breach at
NO
> has been feature on almost every hurricane show I have ever watched on TV.
> This shouldn't have been a surprise.
>
One of the two levees that broke had recently been upgraded. The old ones
held fast.

http://nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationalspecial/01levee.html


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[john smith]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> One of the two levees that broke had recently been upgraded. The old ones
> held fast.

The report I heard was that they added a wall atop the levee.
Isn't that just like a big lever to dig the levee when the water pushes
against it?

[Eduardo K.]

In article et>,
Mike Rapoport > wrote:
>
>Too bad the president doesn't just come out and act Presidential and ask
>everybody to try to cut their gasoline usage by 10% until the shortage is
>resolved....Kennedy would have done this, Nixon would have, Carter would
>have, Reagan would have...
>

Bush is not the president. He just pretends to be. :)


--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | "World domination, now"
http://e.nn.cl | Linus Torvalds

[Ash Wyllie]

Matt Barrow opined

>"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>> Our crystal ball (aka TWC) only fortold that the Gulf Coast would be hit,
>> not NO specifically. The point is that little or no pre-landfall
>> preparation seems to have taken place. A few water trucks and a thousand
>> dollars worth of paper cups at the superdome would have gone a long way as
>> would a couple of large generators and a diesel truck to fuel them (all
>> availible at the local equipment rental company). There are people who's
>> job is to think of this stuff and they had decades to think it through. I
>> find their performance unsatisfactory. The outcome of a levee breach at
>NO
>> has been feature on almost every hurricane show I have ever watched on TV.
>> This shouldn't have been a surprise.
>>
>One of the two levees that broke had recently been upgraded. The old ones
>held fast.

>http://nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationalspecial/01levee.html

Sounds like they used the same contractors that Boaton used for the Big Dig.



-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

[ThomasH]

On 31-Aug-05 10:11, Dan Luke wrote:
> CNN video: NEW looks bad; partially under water. Heavy damage to most
> buildings, particularly the large Millionaire FBO west of 18/36.
>
> Wonder how long it will be before we make the $100 muffaletta trip to
> Lakefront again--if indeed we ever do?
>

This is so sad, really. Especially the seemingly lack of
efficiency in helping these people. It is even more sad to
observe all this scavenging and the violence in the city of
New Orleans.


We did landed on NEW I believe 2001 on our way home from
LAL Sun'n'fun to California. We landed on Monday late
afternoon. lake Pontchartrain was soaked in purple and
was looking so peaceful...

Our FFO was Million Air. Because on Monday it is so quiet in
New Orleans, we got from them a transport to French Quarter
and a room in Royal Senesta at the Bourbon St for $110, if my
memory serves me. The regular rack price posted on the door
was some $390 or a similar insane value. The room was very
plain, like a nice $80 hotel someplace else.

We did walked the night along the Quarter, got the Jambalaya
and the pieces of a Gator, and the next day we walked toward
Jackson Square and took breakfast in one of the French style
bakeries, was the name Madelaine? It was excellent, we did
not wanted leave. But the schedule was to be observed! We
left around noon and we took off, heading west.

Next landing Junction, Texas. Than El Paso for the night.

I really feel so awful for the people of New Orleans and
of all the countless other places around the Golf. It is
so attractive and serene, so Mediterranean, until, well
until the nature shows its devastating side. This makes
me think about "the next big one" here in California.
We do not have such winds on the West Coast, but we know
that it will shake violently again one day... It might
than shake up our existence at a similar scale!

Thomas, PAO

Thomas

[Jay Honeck]

> Our area farmers can't afford the fuel prices when they were "good" as
> compared to now. Many here have simply started raising cattle. Rice,
> soybeans, sugercane and wheat can't produce a profit at the current market
> price they bring...

Good! Maybe they will stop over-producing and allow the price to rise back
to a profitable level?

Oh, wait -- the Feds keep paying them tax money whether it's profitable to
till the land, or not.

Never mind....

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[W P Dixon]

In some cases they pay them not to till the land at all ;) Bet that one
really gets ya ! ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:hhPSe.310417$_o.21182@attbi_s71...
>> Our area farmers can't afford the fuel prices when they were "good" as
>> compared to now. Many here have simply started raising cattle. Rice,
>> soybeans, sugercane and wheat can't produce a profit at the current
>> market price they bring...
>
> Good! Maybe they will stop over-producing and allow the price to rise
> back to a profitable level?
>
> Oh, wait -- the Feds keep paying them tax money whether it's profitable to
> till the land, or not.
>
> Never mind....
>
> :-(
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[john smith]

>>Our area farmers can't afford the fuel prices when they were "good" as
>>compared to now. Many here have simply started raising cattle. Rice,
>>soybeans, sugercane and wheat can't produce a profit at the current market
>>price they bring...

How many pounds of grain does it take to produce a gallon of ethanol?

[George Patterson]

john smith wrote:
>
> How many pounds of grain does it take to produce a gallon of ethanol?

If I remember the recipe correctly, it takes a little over a bushel per gallon.
Corn weighs about 56 pounds per bushel.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Darrel Toepfer]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Our area farmers can't afford the fuel prices when they were "good" as
>>compared to now. Many here have simply started raising cattle. Rice,
>>soybeans, sugercane and wheat can't produce a profit at the current market
>>price they bring...
>
> Good! Maybe they will stop over-producing and allow the price to rise back
> to a profitable level?

Imports from other countries won't allow for that. Lots of countries
won't take our exports...

> Oh, wait -- the Feds keep paying them tax money whether it's profitable to
> till the land, or not.

The actually pay us to not plant in some cases...

> Never mind....

Is that something like *geaux fish*?