First Soaring Experience

[Jay Honeck]

A friend of ours has been after us to fly up to Ames, IA (home of "the
other" Iowa university, Iowa State) to go flying with the "Silent Knights"
soaring club for months.

Today was the planned day, but things were up in the air after my mother-in
law passed away unexpectedly on Sunday. Mary has been incredibly knotted
up with the usual emotion, phone calls, emails, and preparation for the
funeral services to come -- but she wasn't heading to Wisconsin till
tomorrow, so when I asked her if she wanted to cancel our long-standing plan
to fly to Ames, she replied in the negative. Rather, she was hoping the day
would take her mind off of everything.

What an experience! With Mary as PIC the four of us touched down in Ames
at around 10 AM, in picture-perfect (lousy for soaring, great for flying)
weather, and we were soon underway. We met Paul (our instructor pilot) and
Rollin (our tow pilot), drew straws to see who would go first, and soon Mary
was being towed behind Rollin in the Super Cub.

20 minutes later, she returned, googly eyed and talking a mile a minute. It
was a terrific ride, she said, and it was good to see that the experience
had clearly pulled her out of the funk she'd been in for days.

Then it was my turn. Climbing into the two-place Blanik L-13 was fairly
straight-forward (certainly easier than getting into the Super Cub
towplane!), and quite comfortable (although hot), once strapped in. After a
few minutes of pre-flight briefing (basically, what not to touch, and the
signals we both needed to know), we were ready to go.

With my friend holding the left wing tip, Rollin fire-walled the Super Cub,
and the long wings were instantly alive. Soon our wing-runner couldn't keep
up, but that didn't matter, as we no longer needed his assistance -- we were
airborne in 100 feet! With Paul at the controls, we slowly climbed out,
with that Super Cub impossibly close, seemingly super-imposed in one spot on
our plexiglas windshield. It was more like riding a slow-motion elevator
than flying, as we just seemed to levitate straight up.

As we climbed through 500 feet, he had me take the rudder controls only, and
showed me how the rudder was used to move the towplane around the
windshield. This was strange stuff, for a Spam Can pilot -- imagine, using
the rudder pedals for something other than ground steering! :-) Only
after I could keep the Super Cub in the same part of the windshield did he
let me take the stick, telling me just to keep the wings level while using
the rudders to steer.

Suddenly, the Super Cub wasn't super-imposed in the same spot anymore! I
was initially all over the place, as I played with various stick and rudder
pressures, trying to gauge how much pressure would result in any given
movement. Gradually, I settled down, and with great concentration was able
to keep the tow plane relatively centered in the windshield.

Then Paul "boxed the wake" -- a standard maneuver that took us all around
the tow-plane's prop-wash, from lower left to upper left, to upper right, to
lower right. It was very smooth, and interesting to watch as the tow rope
would move around, trying to yank the Super Cub's butt out of line. It was
easy to see Rollin's reaction on the rudders as Paul would move the glider
around behind him, and you could tell that being the tow pilot was not a
piece of cake.

When I asked if I could try "boxing the wake", at first Paul said no, it
was a later lesson. Then he thought about it, and decided to let me have a
crack at it -- so I was soon doing my best to yank the tow plane's tail off.
It seemed that way anyway, although after a minute or two I got the hang of
it, and was able to successfully "box the wake" -- which earned me a big
attaboy (and, later, exclamation marks in my log book).

Then, poof! -- Paul cut us loose from the tow plane, and everything went
silent. We were about 3000 feet AGL, and the sky out front was suddenly
quite empty, as we veered right, and Rollin veered left. I was suddenly
aware that we were SOARING, not flying around behind an engine, and it was a
strange feeling of exhilaration and fear. What would we do if we couldn't
make the airport? Where the hell WAS the airport, anyway?

In all of my concentration, I realized I had NO idea where the airport was!
Luckily, as I muttered this under my breath (and Paul, in the back seat,
clearly heard it -- MAN it's quiet in there!), he answered (and I
simultaneously saw) that the runways were directly underneath us, and we
really had no worries.

Then he gave me the controls, and I started to see how this soaring stuff
worked. Heck, the VSI was pegged in the middle -- there was NO rate of
descent, even though we were seemingly standing still! At 45 knots, there
was absolutely no sense of motion, so long as I kept our drift string (taped
on the windshield) running parallel to our direction of flight. As soon as
that got out of whack, we were crabbing or slipping, and then the wind noise
would pick up, and you could tell we were actually moving. Stepping on the
pedals would make the string flail back and forth, but I soon figured out
how had to press, and when -- and the string just sat there, motionless.

So THAT is what those rudder pedals are for!

I was amazed at the maneuverability of the big bird. After a bit of
straight and level, and then turning to a heading, I was able to turn that
glider around in what felt like its own length! We were wheeling and
soaring like a bird, and all was right with the world.

When I asked Paul about stalls, he had me do one -- wow! I had thought 45
knots felt slow -- but this was ridiculous! We literally STOPPED the thing
in mid-air, and sat there like a "just ran off a cliff" cartoon character --
and then the nose fell through, straight and level. No wing drop, no loss
of altitude (well, maybe 50 feet), and we were back in straight and level
flight.

Too soon we had run out of time -- there was no lift to be had under the
high broken overcast -- and it was time to land. I was amazed to see (and
feel) how effective the spoilers and dive brakes were -- deploying and
stowing them felt just like retarding and adding throttle! Paul expertly
swung us around the pattern, and dropped us on a dime, right back where we
started!

What a great day. Our other friends went up, too, and I was able to
participate in the whole rigarmarole of soaring, from dragging the gliders
with cars, to hooking up, to running alongside, to tying down. We then
went out for a huge lunch, and the four of us flew back to Iowa City, fat,
dumb and happy.

I don't really have any interest in getting my glider rating -- there
doesn't seem to be any utility in it -- but, man, I sure do understand you
guys that have been raving about it. It's a real aviation challenge that
gives instant gratification!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[BTIZ]

Great Post Jay!!!! I've cross posted to r.a.s

Come on out to Las Vegas between late May and later Sept, and we'll show you
how to really soar!!

BTIZ
CFIG

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:HfrRe.320147$xm3.78586@attbi_s21...
>A friend of ours has been after us to fly up to Ames, IA (home of "the
>other" Iowa university, Iowa State) to go flying with the "Silent Knights"
>soaring club for months.
>
> Today was the planned day, but things were up in the air after my
> mother-in law passed away unexpectedly on Sunday. Mary has been
> incredibly knotted up with the usual emotion, phone calls, emails, and
> preparation for the funeral services to come -- but she wasn't heading to
> Wisconsin till tomorrow, so when I asked her if she wanted to cancel our
> long-standing plan to fly to Ames, she replied in the negative. Rather,
> she was hoping the day would take her mind off of everything.
>
> What an experience! With Mary as PIC the four of us touched down in Ames
> at around 10 AM, in picture-perfect (lousy for soaring, great for flying)
> weather, and we were soon underway. We met Paul (our instructor pilot)
> and Rollin (our tow pilot), drew straws to see who would go first, and
> soon Mary was being towed behind Rollin in the Super Cub.
>
> 20 minutes later, she returned, googly eyed and talking a mile a minute.
> It was a terrific ride, she said, and it was good to see that the
> experience had clearly pulled her out of the funk she'd been in for days.
>
> Then it was my turn. Climbing into the two-place Blanik L-13 was fairly
> straight-forward (certainly easier than getting into the Super Cub
> towplane!), and quite comfortable (although hot), once strapped in. After
> a few minutes of pre-flight briefing (basically, what not to touch, and
> the signals we both needed to know), we were ready to go.
>
> With my friend holding the left wing tip, Rollin fire-walled the Super
> Cub, and the long wings were instantly alive. Soon our wing-runner
> couldn't keep up, but that didn't matter, as we no longer needed his
> assistance -- we were airborne in 100 feet! With Paul at the controls,
> we slowly climbed out, with that Super Cub impossibly close, seemingly
> super-imposed in one spot on our plexiglas windshield. It was more like
> riding a slow-motion elevator than flying, as we just seemed to levitate
> straight up.
>
> As we climbed through 500 feet, he had me take the rudder controls only,
> and showed me how the rudder was used to move the towplane around the
> windshield. This was strange stuff, for a Spam Can pilot -- imagine,
> using the rudder pedals for something other than ground steering! :-)
> Only after I could keep the Super Cub in the same part of the windshield
> did he let me take the stick, telling me just to keep the wings level
> while using the rudders to steer.
>
> Suddenly, the Super Cub wasn't super-imposed in the same spot anymore! I
> was initially all over the place, as I played with various stick and
> rudder pressures, trying to gauge how much pressure would result in any
> given movement. Gradually, I settled down, and with great concentration
> was able to keep the tow plane relatively centered in the windshield.
>
> Then Paul "boxed the wake" -- a standard maneuver that took us all around
> the tow-plane's prop-wash, from lower left to upper left, to upper right,
> to lower right. It was very smooth, and interesting to watch as the tow
> rope would move around, trying to yank the Super Cub's butt out of line.
> It was easy to see Rollin's reaction on the rudders as Paul would move the
> glider around behind him, and you could tell that being the tow pilot was
> not a piece of cake.
>
> When I asked if I could try "boxing the wake", at first Paul said no, it
> was a later lesson. Then he thought about it, and decided to let me have
> a crack at it -- so I was soon doing my best to yank the tow plane's tail
> off. It seemed that way anyway, although after a minute or two I got the
> hang of it, and was able to successfully "box the wake" -- which earned me
> a big attaboy (and, later, exclamation marks in my log book).
>
> Then, poof! -- Paul cut us loose from the tow plane, and everything went
> silent. We were about 3000 feet AGL, and the sky out front was suddenly
> quite empty, as we veered right, and Rollin veered left. I was suddenly
> aware that we were SOARING, not flying around behind an engine, and it was
> a strange feeling of exhilaration and fear. What would we do if we
> couldn't make the airport? Where the hell WAS the airport, anyway?
>
> In all of my concentration, I realized I had NO idea where the airport
> was! Luckily, as I muttered this under my breath (and Paul, in the back
> seat, clearly heard it -- MAN it's quiet in there!), he answered (and I
> simultaneously saw) that the runways were directly underneath us, and we
> really had no worries.
>
> Then he gave me the controls, and I started to see how this soaring stuff
> worked. Heck, the VSI was pegged in the middle -- there was NO rate of
> descent, even though we were seemingly standing still! At 45 knots,
> there was absolutely no sense of motion, so long as I kept our drift
> string (taped on the windshield) running parallel to our direction of
> flight. As soon as that got out of whack, we were crabbing or slipping,
> and then the wind noise would pick up, and you could tell we were actually
> moving. Stepping on the pedals would make the string flail back and
> forth, but I soon figured out how had to press, and when -- and the string
> just sat there, motionless.
>
> So THAT is what those rudder pedals are for!
>
> I was amazed at the maneuverability of the big bird. After a bit of
> straight and level, and then turning to a heading, I was able to turn that
> glider around in what felt like its own length! We were wheeling and
> soaring like a bird, and all was right with the world.
>
> When I asked Paul about stalls, he had me do one -- wow! I had thought
> 45 knots felt slow -- but this was ridiculous! We literally STOPPED the
> thing in mid-air, and sat there like a "just ran off a cliff" cartoon
> character -- and then the nose fell through, straight and level. No
> wing drop, no loss of altitude (well, maybe 50 feet), and we were back in
> straight and level flight.
>
> Too soon we had run out of time -- there was no lift to be had under the
> high broken overcast -- and it was time to land. I was amazed to see (and
> feel) how effective the spoilers and dive brakes were -- deploying and
> stowing them felt just like retarding and adding throttle! Paul expertly
> swung us around the pattern, and dropped us on a dime, right back where we
> started!
>
> What a great day. Our other friends went up, too, and I was able to
> participate in the whole rigarmarole of soaring, from dragging the gliders
> with cars, to hooking up, to running alongside, to tying down. We then
> went out for a huge lunch, and the four of us flew back to Iowa City, fat,
> dumb and happy.
>
> I don't really have any interest in getting my glider rating -- there
> doesn't seem to be any utility in it -- but, man, I sure do understand you
> guys that have been raving about it. It's a real aviation challenge that
> gives instant gratification!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:42:31 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote in
<HfrRe.320147$xm3.78586@attbi_s21>::

>I was amazed at the maneuverability of the big bird.

The Blanik L-13 is aerobatic too. But there's no utility in that. :-)

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> A friend of ours has been after us to fly up to Ames, IA (home of "the
> other" Iowa university, Iowa State) to go flying with the "Silent Knights"
> soaring club for months.


I had the opportunity to go soaring some years ago up around Boone, NC in the
Great Smokey Mountains. I figured I'd be on top of things but frankly, I got a
little green around the gills after a time. It was hot and I wasn't the one
doing the flying... a bad combination to be sure. Fortunately I didn't disgrace
myself but I was relieved we weren't able to do any aerobatics as earlier
planned... something to do with weight and balance. No doubt if we had I'd have
donated my lunch to the cockpit.

I'm glad I tried it; just as I'm glad I parachuted out of a C-182 with an old
T-10 chute back in the mid 70s... just to see if I would actually do it. I had
a college roommate who was a glider pilot who flew with the Bermuda High Soaring
folks out of Chester, SC. The only folks he took flying were of the female
variety... but that's another story.

Anyway, I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed your experience... and I'm sorry for
your loss. I lost my own mother last Christmas to pancreatic cancer one week
after she was diagnosed. I fully understand the emotional maelstrom your wife
has gone through.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[N93332]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:HfrRe.320147$xm3.78586@attbi_s21...
>A friend of ours has been after us to fly up to Ames, IA (home of "the
>other" Iowa university, Iowa State) to go flying with the "Silent Knights"
>soaring club for months.

Hey Jay, sounds like a great time! So, there is a reason to go to Ames
besides the biennial football game. ;-)

[Jack Allison]

> 20 minutes later, she returned, googly eyed and talking a mile a minute.
What? Mary talking a mile minute? Nah, must have been someone else
Jay! :-)

Sounds like you guys had a great time. Definitely on my list of things
to do in the aviation department. What an excuse to fly to Minden, NV, eh?

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> Anyway, I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed your experience... and I'm
> sorry for your loss. I lost my own mother last Christmas to pancreatic
> cancer one week after she was diagnosed. I fully understand the emotional
> maelstrom your wife has gone through.

Thanks, Mort. It's been a weird week, for sure.

Having lost both of my parents, one in '93 and one in '99, I know exactly
what's going inside Mary's head -- and it was good to see here happy again,
if only for a few hours. These coming few days are going to be absolute
hell for her, but hopefully those 30 minutes spent soaring will stay with
her and help...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> I don't really have any interest in getting my glider rating -- there
> doesn't seem to be any utility in it -- but, man, I sure do understand you
> guys that have been raving about it. It's a real aviation challenge that
> gives instant gratification!

Jay, give it a moment, and a few more flights.
There is an incredible amount of finess and control t be learned
and re-learned. The payoff is when you take Atlas to the
back-country of Idaho next year and can predict (within 10 feet)
where you will touch down... and how far it will roll...
and use finess, not brute strength and banging it down.

Did you notice the "touchdown to stop" distance of the glider.
Slow and in control wins the day... the Wright brothers were right!

Airplanes are for going somewhere...
Sailplanes are for going up and down and having FUN!

Did you do "roller coasters"?

Tell the CFI you are studying for your CFI...
you can practice incipient spins...
a REAL hoot in a glider!

It was great meeting you at Oshkosh... and on the cell. :-)

"Soaring is when you are going up...
gliding is when you are going down".

Best regards,

LtCol Jer/ Eberhard, Colorado Wing Checkpilot (airplanes and gliders),
Assistant Glider Program Manager, Colorado Wing, CAP

--
LtCol Jer/ Eberhard, CO-Wing, Thompson Valley CS., Ft Collins, CO
CELL/VM: 970 231-6325, CELL Message: 9702316325'at'mobile.att.net
EMAIL: jer'at'frii.com WEB: WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 233 Young Eagles!

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 02:44:45 -0000, wrote in
>::

>Tell the CFI you are studying for your CFI...
>you can practice incipient spins...

Why would Jay need to lie about that. What's to prevent him from
requesting the CFIG demonstrate a full spin in an L-13* or a loop for
that matter?

* http://www.let.cz/leteckezavody/en/l13/general.asp

[[email protected]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Having lost both of my parents, one in '93 and one in '99, I know exactly
> what's going inside Mary's head -- and it was good to see here happy again,
> if only for a few hours. These coming few days are going to be absolute
> hell for her, but hopefully those 30 minutes spent soaring will stay with
> her and help...

Jay, my sympathies on Mary's loss, yours too. My mother's death and her
profound words to me the week before were my inspiration for learning to
fly. She said: "You'll never look back and regret time you spent on your
loved ones; don't get to where I am (dying), look back and regret *NOT*
having spent time on yourself." On the first anniversary of her death, I
took a glider demo ride. Took my checkride (glider) just over a year
from the demo ride, with a few months off when dad died. Transitioned to
power last year. They told me the same thing on final approach ... once
it's trimmed and lined up, use the throttle like you did the
spoilers/divebrakes.

To me, even though they're both "flying", it's like the difference
between Megadeth and Kenny G! I love both, but powered flight is so
manic in comparison!

[RomeoMike]

Spins were a part of my training for a Commercial Glider Certificate add
on some years ago, and I wasn't telling anyone I wanted a CFIG.

wrote:

> Tell the CFI you are studying for your CFI...
> you can practice incipient spins...
> a REAL hoot in a glider!
>

[Morgans]

"Jack Allison" > wrote

> > 20 minutes later, she returned, googly eyed and talking a mile a minute.
> What? Mary talking a mile minute? Nah, must have been someone else
> Jay! :-)

<Chuckle>

Glad she got her mind away to a fun place for a while. Tell her my
condolences are with her, and you. I lost my father-in-law quickly, and
unexpectedly about a year ago, and sometimes it still doesn't seem like it
is possible.
--
Jim in NC

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-08-31, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> A friend of ours has been after us to fly up to Ames, IA (home of "the
> other" Iowa university, Iowa State) to go flying with the "Silent Knights"
> soaring club for months.

You might want to see our Blanik L13, and what happens if you decide
that it's a great idea to floor one of the rudder pedals whilst stalling
:-)

http://www.alioth.net/Video/HatCam.mp4

(If you don't have what it takes to play MPEG-4 files, get VLC from
http://www.videolan.org - VLC plays just about anything)

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-09-01, > wrote:
> Tell the CFI you are studying for your CFI...
> you can practice incipient spins...
> a REAL hoot in a glider!

No need - everywhere where I've done any flying with a glider instructor
in a Blanik, spins have been on the agenda. They are fun. If I need to
lose height in the club's Blanik becacuse my time's run out, spinning is
the most fun way to do it. (Our club encourages pilots to remain
familiar with spins when flying solo, it's an occupational hazard when
soaring in the rather weak conditions we have here, trying to core very
tight and scratchy thermals)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Flyingmonk]

There's a 'Commercial Glider Certificate'? How does one earn a living
with this endoursement?

To Jay,

Great write up, If you ever get caught up in the air without power,
now you'll have a little more confidence.

Sorry of your and Mary's loss.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Maule Driver]

Hope you do it at least one more time when you can actually 'soar', that
is, catch a thermal and go up.

Gliding is fun, Soaring is exhilarating!

[Jay Honeck]

> Glad she got her mind away to a fun place for a while. Tell her my
> condolences are with her, and you. I lost my father-in-law quickly, and
> unexpectedly about a year ago, and sometimes it still doesn't seem like it
> is possible.

It never seems possible.

Thankfully, the human mind can ignore many realities...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-09-01, Flyingmonk > wrote:
> There's a 'Commercial Glider Certificate'? How does one earn a living
> with this endoursement?

Just like someone with a CP-ASEL makes a living!

The commercial certificate is needed if you're offering glider rides to
the public. It's also needed to get the CFI-G.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Jay Honeck]

> You might want to see our Blanik L13, and what happens if you decide
> that it's a great idea to floor one of the rudder pedals whilst stalling
> :-)
>
> http://www.alioth.net/Video/HatCam.mp4

Awesome! That's *exactly* what it looked like!

Would you (or anyone) mind if I added this video to our Aviation Video
webpage? (See it at http://alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm )

(And, dude -- you guys really need to invest in some "Round-Up" spray-on
weed killer before your runway returns to dirt! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Stefan]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> I was suddenly aware that we were SOARING

Glad you enjoyed it, but you weren't SOARING. You did what we call a
sled ride: Tow up and glide down. A nice experience, but not soaring.
Soaring means staying up.

> I don't really have any interest in getting my glider rating -- there
> doesn't seem to be any utility in it -- but, man, I sure do understand you
> guys that have been raving about it.

No, you don't, otherwise you would have that interest. ;-) Soaring is
not about utility, it's just about the joy of flying.

If you liked that ride as much as you say, then do yourself a favour,
drive to some glider Operation and ask for a cross country SOARING
flight. You'll discover a whole new world: Air isn't just quiet or
bumpy, those bumps actually do mean something (as do the rudder pedals).
The pure joy of flight is just one aspect of soaring, the really
intersting part of it is to watch and understand the air and to take
advantage from that. As I like to say: To fly with the help of the
weather instead despite of it.

But be cautious: Once you've discovered the joy of flying a couple of
hundred miles without an engine, chances are you'll find motorized
flying dull, sell your spam can and buy a glider insted. You wouldn't be
the first to whom that happened.

Stefan

[Flyingmonk]

OIC,

Thanks for the reply.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:05:39 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> wrote in
>::

>there's nothing like the
>feeling you get when flying a sailplane XC

You can say that again. The feeling parallels what one might feel
swimming under water through a tunnel; you hope your breath holds out
until you reach the far opening.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-09-01, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Would you (or anyone) mind if I added this video to our Aviation Video
> webpage? (See it at http://alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm )

Not at all! Glad you liked it.

> (And, dude -- you guys really need to invest in some "Round-Up" spray-on
> weed killer before your runway returns to dirt! :-)

Sigh. There's all sorts of things we'd do with that airfield.
Unfortunately, things are 'complicated' with the owners of the field
(which is part of a farm). All being said, the surface hasn't held up
too badly since it's laid untouched since the end of the second world
war...

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Stefan]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Awesome! That's *exactly* what it looked like!

If you like to see some more soaring videos, then this site has a nice
collection: http://www.alpenstreckenflug.de/texte/segelflugvideos.htm

Stefan

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, give it a moment, and a few more flights.

I hear you, Jer, but I just can't afford *another* incredibly expensive
pass-time!

Blue (or, rather, bumpy) skies!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> wrote in message ...
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>> I don't really have any interest in getting my glider rating -- there
>> doesn't seem to be any utility in it -- but, man, I sure do understand
>> you
>> guys that have been raving about it. It's a real aviation challenge that
>> gives instant gratification!
>
> There is an incredible amount of finess and control t be learned
> and re-learned. The payoff is when you take Atlas to the
> back-country of Idaho next year and can predict (within 10 feet)
> where you will touch down... and how far it will roll...
> and use finess, not brute strength and banging it down.
>
> Did you notice the "touchdown to stop" distance of the glider.
> Slow and in control wins the day... the Wright brothers were right!
>
> Airplanes are for going somewhere...
> Sailplanes are for going up and down and having FUN!
>
> Did you do "roller coasters"?
>
> Tell the CFI you are studying for your CFI...
> you can practice incipient spins...
> a REAL hoot in a glider!
>
> It was great meeting you at Oshkosh... and on the cell. :-)
>
> "Soaring is when you are going up...
> gliding is when you are going down".
>
> Best regards,
>
> LtCol Jer/ Eberhard, Colorado Wing Checkpilot (airplanes and gliders),
> Assistant Glider Program Manager, Colorado Wing, CAP
>
> --
> LtCol Jer/ Eberhard, CO-Wing, Thompson Valley CS., Ft Collins, CO
> CELL/VM: 970 231-6325, CELL Message: 9702316325'at'mobile.att.net
> EMAIL: jer'at'frii.com WEB: WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
> C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
> CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 233 Young Eagles!

[Maule Driver]

Larry Dighera wrote:
T o d d P a t t i s t
>>there's nothing like the
>>feeling you get when flying a sailplane XC
>
> You can say that again. The feeling parallels what one might feel
> swimming under water through a tunnel; you hope your breath holds out
> until you reach the far opening.

Ha! That's good!

Actually you get past that after awhile. 3000'+ is like breathing air
(eastern US)

[Gene Seibel]

Great write up. I did the glider thing last year and it's awesome.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Trent Moorehead]

"Stefan" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > I was suddenly aware that we were SOARING
>
> Glad you enjoyed it, but you weren't SOARING. You did what we call a
> sled ride: Tow up and glide down. A nice experience, but not soaring.
> Soaring means staying up.

The gliding club at my airport gave free flights to powered pilots to foster
goodwill between the two types of aviators. I flew in a two-place Grob with
a pilot that I knew, so he pretty much let me take the stick at about 100'
off the ground.

The neatest part of the flight was finding thermals and gaining altitude. It
was a rush to hear that variometer pitch up and watch the altimeter wind
upwards. I was very proud of the fact that I flew for 20 minutes and was at
3000', the same altitude at which we "cut the cord". It was really awesome.

I really need to get my glider rating. The desire to fly gliders was the
initial reason that I took up flying to begin with.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[Brian]

I have flown nearly 50 hours in my glider this year ( a slow year for
me) my shortest flight has been 3 1/2 hours. The longest was close to 6
hours.

Jay, how often do you really use your Cherokee for something useful
(utility) and how often do you usually go fly just because you like to
fly.

For you soaring you just have admit to yourself that you are doing it
just because you like flying.

I fly a $15,000 glider, Insurance = $350/year, Hanger= $600/hr (Partial
hanger), Annual/Maint = $200/year. Tows= $50/flight (5 hr flight =
$10/hr)
at $4/gal gas, my soaring is really inexpensive compared to most power
aircraft.

As already noted there is nothing quite like feeling a thermal pushing
you up and rolling over into 45 degree or steeper banked turn and the
Vario go up to 500-1000 ft/min and the Altimeter winding up like a
clock. Or climbing up to 18,000 feet and crusing over the Idaho
Backcountry like it is your own personal playground. www.soaridaho.com

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL

[N93332]

"Brian" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I fly a $15,000 glider, Insurance = $350/year, Hanger= $600/hr (Partial
> hanger), Annual/Maint = $200/year. Tows= $50/flight (5 hr flight =
> $10/hr)
> at $4/gal gas, my soaring is really inexpensive compared to most power
> aircraft.

I sure HOPE that's a typo! ;-) Hangar at $600/hr; is that really per year?

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, how often do you really use your Cherokee for something useful
> (utility) and how often do you usually go fly just because you like to
> fly.

We fly for "purpose" far more than we fly for "fun" -- which is rare, I
know.

We like to *go* places, and have wracked up an incredible amount of
x-country time this year...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Doug Snyder]

Trent,

Was that at SPA ??

Come on out and get your PGL !
We'll be happy to have you.

Doug

[Don Hammer]

I always thought it was great fun taking my professional pilot friends
up in a glider for the first time. They find out their feet are used
for more than going back and taking a leak.

I fly power for transportation and gliders to really experience
flying. Nothing like circling in a thermal with a gaggle of hawks.
Once you get it in your mind that in most cases you can find some
place to safely land, you'll relax and have a ball. Realizing that
many glass ships have a glide ratio in the range of 35:1 to 53:1,
finding a landing place from 1000 AGL in most parts of the country is
not especially hard.

Get the rating -you'll be a better pilot for the effort.

[Stefan]

Don Hammer wrote:

> Once you get it in your mind that in most cases you can find some
> place to safely land, you'll relax and have a ball.

You're scaring me. A glider pilot knows *always* where he will safely
land should the lift disappear. (And safely means with the glider
intact.) This is basic cross country tactics and essential for a long
life. Easy in some areas, some planning required in others.

Stefan

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:04:05 GMT, Maule Driver
> wrote in
>::

>Larry Dighera wrote:
>T o d d P a t t i s t
>>>there's nothing like the
>>>feeling you get when flying a sailplane XC
>>
>> You can say that again. The feeling parallels what one might feel
>> swimming under water through a tunnel; you hope your breath holds out
>> until you reach the far opening.
>
>Ha! That's good!
>
>Actually you get past that after awhile. 3000'+ is like breathing air
>(eastern US)


I've got a little sailplane XC story for ya.

In the early '70s, shortly after passing my glider checkride, I spent
a few days soaring at El Mirage airport in Adalanto/Landcaster, CA.
One day I took the club (SCSA) 1-26 up, and although I was
inexperienced, I wanted to try a bit of XC. To the east I spotted
some rising smoke over the town of Victorville, and thought: Ah!
Rising air. So although I was only about 6,000' AGL, I headed across
the desert toward the smoke, figuring that I could work the weak lift
en route, and would likely arrive over the smoke with adequate
altitude to circle in it, and gain sufficient altitude to make it at
least half of the way back to El Mirage Airport.

On the way out, the lift began to diminish further, and half way to
Victorville the lift became virtually unusable. Rather than turning
back, I chose to continue on to Victorville confident that that smoke
would get me back. Upon arriving over Victorville, I spotted the
source of the "smoke". It was rising DUST from a cement plant! I was
nearly 1,000' AGL now, and settling.

I turned back toward home with my heart in my throat scratching for
lift, and working every little bubble I could find. I was managing to
almost sustain my altitude, but it was work, and I was starting to get
low enough to pick a place to land.

The black runways of George AFB were ahead; I thought although I
didn't have a radio, it was still the best/safest place to set down in
what had become a bit of an emergency situation. As I arrived over
the runway threshold at about 500' AGL, there were signs of lift.
Hallelujah! The black runway surface was apparently generating a
little thermal lift.

Within the AFB airspace without benefit of ATC clearance, I continued
to circle over the approach end of the runway inching ever higher. I
knew this was not a good situation, but it seemed better than landing
at the time. As I continued to circle over the runway, a flight of
two F-111's passed under me on final approach! Yeoow!

I never saw any light-gun signals, and I don't know if the tower or
fighters had seen me, but I was very uncomfortable to say the least.
Finally, at about 1,500' AGL I headed back on course to El Mirage, and
thankfully the lift got stronger the closer I got to home.

I never forgot the lessons I learned on that flight.

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 02:44:45 -0000, wrote in
> >::

> >Tell the CFI you are studying for your CFI...
> >you can practice incipient spins...

> Why would Jay need to lie about that.

Jay would not be lying. Jay has far too much integrigy to lie. As
Jay will see the light, soon, he WILL get a CFI-Glider. All truth,
and someday verifiable!

> What's to prevent him from
> requesting the CFIG demonstrate a full spin in an L-13* or a loop for
> that matter?

No problem there, either... lets review the FARS... oh, ya, full spins
and loops are intentional aerobatic maneuvers, and parachutes are
required.

Notice, I said "incipient spins". As these can be practiced and
taught as required maneuvers, because they are required for a rating,
parachutes need not be used.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 233 Young Eagles!

[Maule Driver]

Wooooo! Great story. Hard to forget any of that. I don't know about
you, but that kind of experience makes my seat pan tingle

The F-111s probably thought you were a particularly ugly buzzard.

Larry Dighera wrote:
>>T o d d P a t t i s t
>>>>there's nothing like the
>>>>feeling you get when flying a sailplane XC
>>>
>>>You can say that again. The feeling parallels what one might feel
>>>swimming under water through a tunnel; you hope your breath holds out
>>>until you reach the far opening.
>>
>>Ha! That's good!
>>
>>Actually you get past that after awhile. 3000'+ is like breathing air
>>(eastern US)
>
> I've got a little sailplane XC story for ya....

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:17:42 -0000, wrote in
>::

>No problem there, either... lets review the FARS... oh, ya, full spins
>and loops are intentional aerobatic maneuvers, and parachutes are
>required.

As thermaling often requires steep banks to center lift, parachutes
are the norm. I've never been aloft in a glider without one.

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:22:09 GMT, Maule Driver
> wrote in
>::

>Wooooo! Great story.

Thanks. I've got another that occurred before that one; I almost got
sucked up into a thunderstorm:
http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.aviation.piloting/msg/d1473988a67ab2a6?hl=en&

>Hard to forget any of that. I don't know about
>you, but that kind of experience makes my seat pan tingle

Wait till you read the one at the link above. :-)

>The F-111s probably thought you were a particularly ugly buzzard.

Well, they'd be right. :-)

[Brian]

yep, about $600/year. I really don't even need a hanger. The wings come
off and I put the glider in a trailer (takes about 20 minutes to
disassble or assemble the glider) and I put the trailer in the hanger.
We can put 3 or 4 trailers in a normal T-hanger. Or in my case I rent
the L hanger left over at the end of all the T's. Even at that we do
have some really good hanger rates.

Brian

[Brian]

Yeah I forgot the mention The Blanik is sort of the VW Bus of Gliders.

When you start flying the 35:1 Fiberglass gliders you find out what
Smooth and quiet really with nice light controls.

Brian

[Brian]

It isn't the steep banks the make parachutes the norm. It is the 1 or 2
other gliders in the same thermal less then 200 feet away not being
that uncommon that makes the parachute the norm.

Also if you ever fly a contests, then parachutes are required by the
contest (usually) and if you have a $1000 parachute it seems kind of
silly to leave it home in the closet. Especially when most gliders are
designed to accomodate the parachutes.

Brian

[W P Dixon]

Gliders seem like they would be alot of fun, may just have to try one out
for myself. After I get done with the sport pilot thing of course. ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Brian" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> It isn't the steep banks the make parachutes the norm. It is the 1 or 2
> other gliders in the same thermal less then 200 feet away not being
> that uncommon that makes the parachute the norm.
>
> Also if you ever fly a contests, then parachutes are required by the
> contest (usually) and if you have a $1000 parachute it seems kind of
> silly to leave it home in the closet. Especially when most gliders are
> designed to accomodate the parachutes.
>
> Brian
>

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-09-01, > wrote:
> No problem there, either... lets review the FARS... oh, ya, full spins
> and loops are intentional aerobatic maneuvers, and parachutes are
> required.

Big deal - most glider seats are designed for parachutes, and most
glider pilots I know routinely wear chutes. It shouldn't be hard to
borrow a couple of parachutes if the club or glider FBO doesn't have one
for the glider anyway.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:06:59 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> wrote in
>::

>Oh boy, sailplane XC story time. Let's see - shall I
>describe my first outlanding

Tell me more. This sounds like a doozy.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:53:32 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> wrote in
>::

> The adjacent road was quiet, there was no one
>there, no houses nearby, just a couple of fields, so we
>drove a quarter mile away to his house.

Wow! What a bizarre set of circumstances. Thanks for sharing.

Did you ever find out who alerted all the circus performers? Perhaps
a Good Samaritan called the police in one county, and they alerted the
other county police/fire departments, and the media was listening on
the scanner?

So what happened at the loony ranch? Did the inmates start eating the
fabric off the airframe? :-)

[Stefan]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

> I called my crew, and told them where I was. As I sat there
> talking to the man, we heard the first siren. I thought
> nothing of it. Then the second, and he said something like
> "I wonder if there's a fire?" Doh! says my brain.
....

A German glider club created a form sheet to be placed in the abandoned
cockpit after an outlanding:
http://www.segelflug.de/vereine/hotzenwald/hw05_web/berichte/formblatt_aussenlandung.htm

It cannot really be translated, because it contains are a couple of
hidden insider jokes. Anyway, it roughly (and very freely) translates to
somethiing like this (and yes, it *is* a joke):


For your information

This isn't an airplane crash, it's a legal outlanding as described in
the FAR xxx.

The pilot is healthy as documented in his medical [in Germany glider
pilots need a medical] and he is on his way to inform the owner of the
field about the possible damage done to the plants.

So it is neither nessessairy to alarm the SAR nor to inform the
governor, the FAA or the FBI.

I'll be back soon!
The pilot

Formsheet No XXXXX
Issued and confirmed (stamp of the club)

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:54:23 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> wrote in
>::

>>So what happened at the loony ranch? Did the inmates start eating the
>>fabric off the airframe? :-)
>
>No.
>
>I came in the back door of this gothic hospital-like
>building to see some beefy guys in white coats and a nurse
>at a nurses station. "Hi, I just landed a glider in your
>back yard. Can I use the phone and call my friends to come
>get me out of here, and oh, by the way, would you unlock the
>gate out there?"
>

You're lucky they didn't hit you with the Chlorpromazine right there.

Thanks for the chuckles.

[Montblack]

("T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote)
> Or should it be the time I landed on the county insane asylum
> property - just out of sight behind the trees, but inside
> the fenced area ....


I've always enjoyed the 'story' Dad tells of the guy released from the funny
farm who, one day, gets called crazy by the office manager - where he's
working as a janitor. The former 'guest of the county' frantically pulls a
piece of paper out from his wallet, waves it at his boss and says, "I got a
piece of paper saying I ain't crazy. What do you got?"


Montblack

[Don Hammer]

>
>You're scaring me. A glider pilot knows *always* where he will safely
>land should the lift disappear. (And safely means with the glider
>intact.) This is basic cross country tactics and essential for a long
>life. Easy in some areas, some planning required in others.
>
>Stefan

Didn't mean to imply that. In the years of glider flying I've done
there has never been a time I couldn't find a safe landing spot from
where I was, cross country or otherwise. I can't say that if the prop
stops in the light aircraft I fly I would be able say the same.

Look at it this way - In a Cessna, on a standard 3 degree glide slope
or VASI, you won't make the airport from the outer marker without the
engine. Try it some time. When I'm in a light aircraft I'm always
tooking for a landing spot under me.

When flying a high performance glider, at any reasonable altitude,
your glide will take you to places you can't see, but yes you plan,
but you don't have to be obsessive about it. Can you get in a place
where you can't land? Sure. I once was on a flight test of an ASH-25.
We towed to 10K AGL on a cold day with little or no lift. We flew
over 50 miles from the airport and returned. Total flight time was 1
hour 55 min. With zero lift from 10K we had over a 100 mile circle to
find a safe spot to land. In my area, I'm sure that includes at least
a hundred airports or strips and at least 10 times as many farmer's
fields. Did I spend any mental time worring about finding a landing
spot? I think not, but I sure as hell enjoyed myself.

[Stefan]

Don Hammer wrote:

> I can't say that if the prop
> stops in the light aircraft I fly I would be able say the same.

Thst's how I handle it (and I guess, most of us do): In a glider, I have
always an option to safely land without any damage to the glider. In a
powered plane, I have always an option to do a survivable crash.

> When flying a high performance glider, at any reasonable altitude,
> your glide will take you to places you can't see, but yes you plan,
> but you don't have to be obsessive about it.

As I said, this depends on where you're flying. In the mountains, you
better be *very* obsessive about it, or you'll find yourself in a very
uncomfortable situation sooner than you've expected. There are
"outlanding field directories" for the Alps, and I have the known
landing options marked on my map. Plus, in the Alps, we do our landing
options calculations with only half the nominal L/D ratio, which
translates to roughly 1:20 for a standard 15m glider. Believe me, even
with this conservative approach, it can get pretty uncomfortable when
you hit an unexpected downdraft.

Stefan

[Trent Moorehead]

"Doug Snyder" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Trent,
>
> Was that at SPA ??
>
> Come on out and get your PGL !
> We'll be happy to have you.
>
> Doug

Doug,

It was HRJ in Erwin NC. Thanks for the invite! I think the only thing
holding me back is how much of a time commitment there is to soaring. The
club likes you to stay around all afternoon to help with wing running,
towing etc. I just don't have the time right now. My time will free up as my
youngest child gets a little older.

I definitely see soaring as the next step in aviation for me and hopefully
it won't be too much longer.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[Brian]

My son has been running wings and hooking up gliders since he was 7.

Brian

[Jay Honeck]

Here are a few pix from our day in Ames:

http://alexisparkinn.com/2005_soaring_in_ames.htm

What a great time!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

Great pics Jay! How many days did you keep that sh*t eating grin on
your face? I envey you dude. At Federick Airport in MD there's a
glider op, I might go have a looksie.

Thanks for the pics.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Here are a few pix from our day in Ames:

You ever get any sun in Iowa? No wonder I never move back to the midwest.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Here are a few pix from our day in Ames:
>
> You ever get any sun in Iowa? No wonder I never move back to the midwest.

Tons, actually -- especially this summer, with the drought.

Look at the first pictures in the set, when we're in Iowa City. Bright
sunshine!

The high overcast (and a light sprinkle) rolled in while we were in Ames...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Don Hammer]

>As I said, this depends on where you're flying. In the mountains, you
>better be *very* obsessive about it, or you'll find yourself in a very
>uncomfortable situation sooner than you've expected. There are
>"outlanding field directories" for the Alps, and I have the known
>landing options marked on my map. Plus, in the Alps, we do our landing
>options calculations with only half the nominal L/D ratio, which
>translates to roughly 1:20 for a standard 15m glider. Believe me, even
>with this conservative approach, it can get pretty uncomfortable when
>you hit an unexpected downdraft.
>
>Stefan

Good point Stefan. It does depend on your prospective. 99% of my
flying is in the heartland of the US where it is flat. I have some
experience in the mountains of New Mexico where all you have to do is
turn away from the rocks and there are strips and roads you can use in
the valleys. Those I marked on a map also. Sometimes, like you say,
you get sink that really gets your attention though. Many times out
there you see 10kt+ lift and sink that matches it.

I've traveled a bit in the Alps (not flown there yet) of France,
Italy, and Switzerland and can understand why you do what you do. Lots
of rocks there with narrow valleys between. I would think with all
the great scenery, it would be hard to keep your mind on the task at
hand.

Have a good one,

Don

[Michael]

> I hear you, Jer, but I just can't afford *another* incredibly expensive
> pass-time!

Not as expensive as you might think. I paid less than $7000 for my
flying, in-annual (actually condition inspection), all-metal (can be
tied down outside, no hangar necessary) single seat glider. Insurance
is less than $500/year. Annual maintenance is less than $100/year,
though it does include a weekend of my time a year.

BTW, your kids can solo a glider at 14.

Since you have an airplane, you can choose any glider operation within
reasonable reach, and use the plane to get to the glider.

Michael

[Jay Honeck]

> Since you have an airplane, you can choose any glider operation within
> reasonable reach, and use the plane to get to the glider.

That would end up being the most expensive part, I suspect. The closest
glider ops are in Ames, about 45 minutes away.

I'd use the CAP gliders over in Burlington, but getting one of those (and a
CAP instructor) scheduled is ridiculous.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Clear]

In article <lIKTe.91506$084.52171@attbi_s22>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> Since you have an airplane, you can choose any glider operation within
>> reasonable reach, and use the plane to get to the glider.
>
>That would end up being the most expensive part, I suspect. The closest
>glider ops are in Ames, about 45 minutes away.

Just put a tow hook an Atlas. You claim he can lift anything, and
you can trade off being tow pilot or glider pilot. And you just
solved the problem of how to get more stuff to OSH, since you have
your aerial trailer.

:)

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Jay Honeck]

> Just put a tow hook an Atlas. You claim he can lift anything, and
> you can trade off being tow pilot or glider pilot. And you just
> solved the problem of how to get more stuff to OSH, since you have
> your aerial trailer.

Hmm. I know you're kidding, but why wouldn't this be an option?

Heck, if a dinky little Super Cub could pull that glider aloft, Atlas should
have no problems.

What's involved with towing gliders -- NOT for hire?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

Jay wrote: "dinky little Super Cub"

Dinky little Super Cub? I hear they have a very good power to weight
ratio, like that of a Gymnast, and can haul supplies like a Beijing
bicycle. ; ^)

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Jay Honeck]

> Dinky little Super Cub? I hear they have a very good power to weight
> ratio, like that of a Gymnast, and can haul supplies like a Beijing
> bicycle. ; ^)

Good point. They have 180 hp, and weigh next to nothing.

But they *are* dinky...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> What's involved with towing gliders -- NOT for hire?

First, you need to find a tow hook arrangement STC'd for your aircraft (or jump
through the hoops needed to get an STC). Then there's training and a checkout.

Practically speaking, Atlas would make a mediocre tow plane for most gliders.
It's too fast. Towing a "trailer" to Osh would be a long exercise in slow
flight, with the glider constantly trying to pull the tail up.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Jay Honeck]

> Practically speaking, Atlas would make a mediocre tow plane for most
> gliders. It's too fast. Towing a "trailer" to Osh would be a long exercise
> in slow flight, with the glider constantly trying to pull the tail up.

Yeah, but George -- wouldn't it be cool??

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Michael]

> Hmm. I know you're kidding, but why wouldn't this be an option?
> What's involved with towing gliders -- NOT for hire?

The hard part would be finding an STC'd towhook, or finding a FSDO that
would give you a field approval.

With a notch or two of flaps, you would be plenty slow enough for most
gliders - and if you kept it light on fuel, performance would be fine.
182's with O-470 engines are routinely used for towing.

The training required is pretty trivial - you need dual instruction in
a glider being towed by an aircraft (and it sounds like you already
have that, if your flight was with a CFI-G) and a checkout from another
tow pilot. An hour of flight and an hour of ground is plenty, and can
be used to meet your BFR requirements if the tow pilot is a CFI.

The real issue is insurance.

Michael