PPL Flight Expenses Legal?

[Flyin'[email protected]]

On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My company
pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
flying myself.

Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were to
rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this be
legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real clear
cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
Thoughts?

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Robert M. Gary]

If its "incidental" to your employement you should be ok.

-Robert, CFI

[Andre]

don't know where you live but when I looked into this in Canada, I can rent
a plane, fly co-workers and charge back reasonable costs to the company, as
long as I don't get paid to fly.

One place I worked said that they would pay for the cost of the plane as
long as it did not cost more then the cost of driving.

> wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
> drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My company
> pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
> flying myself.
>
> Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were to
> rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this be
> legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real clear
> cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Mike Flyin'8
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Mike Rapoport]

Yes it is legal.

Mike
MU-2

> wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
> drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My company
> pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
> flying myself.
>
> Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were to
> rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this be
> legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real clear
> cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Mike Flyin'8
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

[BTIZ]

incidental to employment.. but rather then the company renting the plane,
work out a cost of xx cents per mile for personal aircraft use, same idea as
you would get for personal car use that gets reimbursed.

That way the company is not liable for the aircraft, or you if something
happens, other than what they would be responsible for in your own car.

And no one has questions. at one time the going rate was about $1/mile
traveled.

BT

> wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
> drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My company
> pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
> flying myself.
>
> Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were to
> rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this be
> legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real clear
> cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Mike Flyin'8
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

[OtisWinslow]

If you're flying on company business and something happens the
company will be named in the lawsuit.


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:zc1Se.7653$ct5.5834@fed1read04...
> incidental to employment.. but rather then the company renting the plane,
> work out a cost of xx cents per mile for personal aircraft use, same idea
> as you would get for personal car use that gets reimbursed.
>
> That way the company is not liable for the aircraft, or you if something
> happens, other than what they would be responsible for in your own car.
>
> And no one has questions. at one time the going rate was about $1/mile
> traveled.
>
> BT
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
>> drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My
>> company
>> pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
>> flying myself.
>>
>> Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were
>> to
>> rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this be
>> legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real
>> clear
>> cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Mike Flyin'8
>> PP-ASEL
>> Temecula, CA
>> http://flying.4alexanders.com
>
>

[BTIZ]

don't doubt that... same as if my company was paying me to use my car for
the trip..
no difference.. but being named.. and loosing in court are far between..
BT

"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
. ..
> If you're flying on company business and something happens the
> company will be named in the lawsuit.
>
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:zc1Se.7653$ct5.5834@fed1read04...
>> incidental to employment.. but rather then the company renting the plane,
>> work out a cost of xx cents per mile for personal aircraft use, same idea
>> as you would get for personal car use that gets reimbursed.
>>
>> That way the company is not liable for the aircraft, or you if something
>> happens, other than what they would be responsible for in your own car.
>>
>> And no one has questions. at one time the going rate was about $1/mile
>> traveled.
>>
>> BT
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
>>> drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My
>>> company
>>> pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
>>> flying myself.
>>>
>>> Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were
>>> to
>>> rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this
>>> be
>>> legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real
>>> clear
>>> cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Flyin'8
>>> PP-ASEL
>>> Temecula, CA
>>> http://flying.4alexanders.com
>>
>>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

"incidental to employment.. but rather then the company renting the
plane,
work out a cost of xx cents per mile for personal aircraft use, same
idea as
you would get for personal car use that gets reimbursed. "

That sounds like a stretch. I may not be an attorney but I've taken a
hell of a lot of business law classes and I would be HIGHLY surprised
if any court found there it be a structural difference between the two
methods.

-Robert

[BTIZ]

some companies.. including the federal gov't, already have in a "mileage
allowance" to reimburse employees for using their personal desired mode of
transportation.

some FBO's would not rent to a company, if the company has no qualified
commercial rated pilot. But will rent to a pvt pilot already one of their
customers.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> "incidental to employment.. but rather then the company renting the
> plane,
> work out a cost of xx cents per mile for personal aircraft use, same
> idea as
> you would get for personal car use that gets reimbursed. "
>
> That sounds like a stretch. I may not be an attorney but I've taken a
> hell of a lot of business law classes and I would be HIGHLY surprised
> if any court found there it be a structural difference between the two
> methods.
>
> -Robert
>

[kontiki]

Yes.

wrote:

> On Tuesday I must make a trip to a customer site. It is about a 3 hour
> drive, but I can make the trip by flying myself in 36 minutes. My company
> pays for mileage if by car, and no policy setup for renting a plane and
> flying myself.
>
> Let's assume my company will pay the cost of plane rental... If I were to
> rent a plane and fly to the local airport with a co-worker, would this be
> legal under the FAR's? As has been said before, there is not a real clear
> cut answer from what I can tell. I think I would be ok by the FAR's...
> Thoughts?
>

[Robert M. Gary]

"some companies.. including the federal gov't, already have in a
"mileage
allowance" "

Actually, this is something set by the IRS. If a company pays you more
than the mileage allowance (this is for cars) you must show receipts to
the IRS that your vehicle costs more to operate, otherwise you will be
taxes on the difference as ordinary income.
The IRS would actually be quite irritated if you took a car milage
against an aircraft unless you also provided documentation that you
spent at least that on the aircraft. You can not just say "give me the
mileage allowance and don't ask how I got there".

Remember, the mileage allowance is a nice goody the IRS gives us by
saying reimb. at that rate does not require supporting documentation.

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> "some companies.. including the federal gov't, already have in a
> "mileage
> allowance" "
>
> Actually, this is something set by the IRS. If a company pays you more
> than the mileage allowance (this is for cars) you must show receipts to
> the IRS that your vehicle costs more to operate, otherwise you will be
> taxes on the difference as ordinary income.

About two years ago I recall reading that there was a rate of
$0.975/mile for use of GA aircraft. Auto rate was about $0.37 at the
time. I'm not sure if this was official IRS rate or a contract rate set
by GSA or somehting similar.

> The IRS would actually be quite irritated if you took a car milage
> against an aircraft unless you also provided documentation that you
> spent at least that on the aircraft. You can not just say "give me the
> mileage allowance and don't ask how I got there".

If this is just an occasional usage I'd just claim it as car mileage
and no one will be the wiser. In the odd event you get audited, the
actual rate will surely be significantly higher.

-cwk.

[George Patterson]

wrote:
>
> About two years ago I recall reading that there was a rate of
> $0.975/mile for use of GA aircraft. Auto rate was about $0.37 at the
> time. I'm not sure if this was official IRS rate or a contract rate set
> by GSA or somehting similar.

I also recall reading that. I had occasion to check my tax software (TurboTax)
last year, however, and they had no provision for writing off aircraft usage
using a standard rate. As far as I can tell, the only way to do it was to fill
out all the expense info, percentage of business usage, etc.. Since I only put
about 20 miles on the plane for business, I decided it wasn't worth it.

Of course, this may simply be a shortcoming in TurboTax.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Stubby]

wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>>"some companies.. including the federal gov't, already have in a
>>"mileage
>>allowance" "
>>
>>Actually, this is something set by the IRS. If a company pays you more
>>than the mileage allowance (this is for cars) you must show receipts to
>>the IRS that your vehicle costs more to operate, otherwise you will be
>>taxes on the difference as ordinary income.
>
>
> About two years ago I recall reading that there was a rate of
> $0.975/mile for use of GA aircraft. Auto rate was about $0.37 at the
> time. I'm not sure if this was official IRS rate or a contract rate set
> by GSA or somehting similar.

DoD through the GSA defines what can be charged against a Govt contract.
http://www.dtic.mil/perdiem will get you to the current GSA site and
you can dig for "use of personal airplane". But don't bother -- it's
always limited to the customary charge on a normal scheduled airline.
Now, Southwest is charging only $39 for many flights so you're not going
to get much reimbursement.

You and your company might have an agreement that lets the company pay
for your airplane. You probably won't run afoul of the FAA if the plane
is not required for the business ("incidental") but you should check
with a CPA about whether the money from your company in excess of the
normal airline rate is taxable income if you want to get the IRS
interested in your case.

[Peter R.]

Stubby > wrote:

> But don't bother -- it's
> always limited to the customary charge on a normal scheduled airline.
> Now, Southwest is charging only $39 for many flights so you're not going
> to get much reimbursement.

Not entirely true. Just because there may be some Southwest Airlines seats
somewhere in the US for $39., it doesn't mean a GA pilot can only claim up
to $39 per leg for his particular flight. There have been cases I recall
reading (Flying Magazine, perhaps?) where a GA pilot was successful in
getting the IRS to allow actual costs for the flight.

Also, there have been cases where the pilot was able to prove that the time
saved by flying GA (door-to-door being less than commercial airlines with
security, connections, etc) allowed him to more productively operate his
business. In this case, the IRS allowed the actual costs of the GA flight.

Again, I don't have an Internet site because it was an article in one of
the aviation periodicals I received. But, in my case, I have been flying
GA every week for business since March between two cities not serviced by
GA. I was told by my account to confidently deduct actual costs of each
flight (following the proper logging of each flight, etc.)

--
Peter


















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[Peter R.]

"Peter R." > wrote:

> But, in my case, I have been flying
> GA every week for business since March between two cities not serviced by
> GA.

Sorry for the typo: "Not serviced by commercial airlines," it should read
above.


--
Peter


















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