2 "emergencies" this AM

[Robert M. Gary]

My partner and I went up in the Mooney this AM to take advantage of the
unusual overcast at MHR. Tower was reporting around 1,000 overcast with
vis around 3. We took off from our little foothills airport (non-tower)
right behind a Luscome who seemed to depart right into the soup. In the
2 hours it took us to fly 6 or so approachs into MHR we heard 2
aircraft call approach and say they were trapped and wanted to go to
MHR. Neither could fly IFR but one took a bunch of time to explain that
he was taking IFR lessons. :) Approach reported the airport as IFR at
the time (I don't remember the exact wx at that moment) but offered
vectors to the airport since the guy seemed to be in trouble. The first
guy then reported that he couldn't make it to MHR and wanted another
suggestion (you know a pilot is in trouble when he asks ATC what he
should do!!). Then another pilot called up with the same situation.
Both had taken off right into the wx thinking they could fly under it.
The approach guy seemed very frustrated but helpful. He finally told
the 2nd guy, "I'm not sure what you can do, no one has been able to get
into MHR VFR". Luckily the clouds cleared enough that both guys were
able to land but it could have been ugly.

As a CFI I've flown around wx with non-IFR pilots on many occasions.
Its amazing how far some VFR pilots push themselves once they are in
the air. I think because they don't see wx that often they don't
realize how quick things can go South. I've actually had VFR pilots
tell me they want to just drop down through the cloud layer to get to
the airport when turning away would maintain VFR. This is not meant as
a slight towards all VFR pilots, I know many that have great decision
making skills.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.
-Robert

[Roy Smith]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> As a CFI I've flown around wx with non-IFR pilots on many occasions.
> Its amazing how far some VFR pilots push themselves once they are in
> the air. I think because they don't see wx that often they don't
> realize how quick things can go South.

It is amazing, isn't it?

I remember a flight I did with a private pilot maybe a year ago. As I
recall, this was his 2nd or 3rd flight with me, working on passing a BFR.
He wasn't instrument rated and exhibited marginal VFR skills.

I try to impress on my students that I want to see them display PIC
decision making capability. In particular, I tell them that THEY will make
the go/no-go decision based on weather, not me. Sometimes that means we
launch into conditions that don't make a lot of sense for them, but I like
to give them a bit of rope.

It was a cruddy VFR day. I don't remember it exactly, but something like
030 OVC 020 SCT 6SM sounds about right, and forecast to get worse later in
the day. Legal VFR, but not the kind of weather I'd like to see a VFR-only
pilot leave the pattern. I gave him his rope and he took it.

We were working on pilotage. I had him fly us from OXC (Oxford, CT) to 44N
(Sky Acres, NY). For those not familiar with the area, this is about a 30
mile flight with some small hills you need to get over. I had him pull out
a sectional and show me the route. We talked about cloud ceilings and
terrain heights. I dropped as many hints as I could think of and still
couldn't ignite a spark of recognition about how close those two nunmbers
were. So, off we went.

As we got closer to the hills, I pointed out that I could see them in the
distance and their tops looked about at our altitude. I practically had to
hit him over the head with a clue-by-four to get him to climb a little.
Then I started asking him questions like "What kind of airspace are we in?"
How much below the clouds do we need to be to be legal?" "How close do you
think we are to those clouds?" I kept getting vague answers. Finally, I
pointed out the side window and said, "Do you see that little cloud off our
wingtip? Doesn't it look like it's *below* our altitude"? "Do you think
this is smart what we're doing?" I still couldn't get anything useful out
of him.

The mind boggles.

And, no, I didn't sign him off.

[Paul kgyy]

Well, I've had my own encounters with MVFR - the hard ones to deal with
involve maybe a short trip (1 hr) with good VFR at both ends and no
reporting stations in between. Then you get 3/4 of the way there and
encounter a band of clouds that starts forcing you down. The
temptation is "well, another 30 seconds and I should be clear of this".
It was one of these experiences that finally made me conclude that I
had to get the instrument rating.