stupid GPS question

[Mike W.]

OK I am just getting into the VFR GPS navigation thing. Here is my question:
what is the origin of all of these intersections? I see some as airway
intersections on sectionals, but many seem random.
And why is it when I file an airway flight plan with AOPA flight planner, it
always throws a couple of these in the route? Why not just go from the last
VOR direct to your destination airport? Does it assume that I have a GPS
with a current database? Or is it assuming that if I am creating an airway
route that I am IFR?

--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....

[Peter Duniho]

"Mike W." > wrote in message
...
> OK I am just getting into the VFR GPS navigation thing. Here is my
> question:
> what is the origin of all of these intersections? I see some as airway
> intersections on sectionals, but many seem random.

Depends on what intersections you're talking about.

However, many "intersections" on an airway are not actually places where
another airway crosses. They are, instead, the intersection of that airway
and some reference from a navaid somewhere else. Usually for the purpose of
defining a distance, a transition route to an instrument approach, that sort
of thing.

Without knowing exactly what intersection you're referring to, it's hard to
answer the question more specifically than that.

> And why is it when I file an airway flight plan with AOPA flight planner,
> it
> always throws a couple of these in the route?

I guess you'd have to ask the folks who wrote the routing algorithm for the
AOPA flight planner. However, your guesses could be correct, or it could be
related to some maximum distance from a point to the destination allowed by
the routing algorithm. It's possible (I don't know, not having used the
AOPA flight planner) that there's an option that tells it to only use VORs;
that would be an appropriate restriction on the routing algorithm for VFR
flight, and would eliminate those intersections from your route.

Pete

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Mike W." > said:
>And why is it when I file an airway flight plan with AOPA flight planner, it
>always throws a couple of these in the route? Why not just go from the last

You're VFR with a GPS. Go direct. (Draw the line on a chart to make sure
you don't cross any restricted airspace and the like.)


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Morgans" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote
>> You're VFR with a GPS. Go direct. (Draw the line on a chart to make sure
>> you don't cross any restricted airspace and the like.)
>
>I seem to recall someone saying that when filing, put in the remarks
>section, something like "VFR GPS onboard."
>
>Helpful?

If you're vfr, nobody cares how you navigate.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.

[Mike W.]

Yes that is the fastest way. I just have a hard time putting so much trust
in one box. Of course, whether you navigate with a GPS or a compass and a
stopwatch, I guess you still have to look out the window.

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Mike W." > said:
> >And why is it when I file an airway flight plan with AOPA flight planner,
it
> >always throws a couple of these in the route? Why not just go from the
last
>
> You're VFR with a GPS. Go direct. (Draw the line on a chart to make sure
> you don't cross any restricted airspace and the like.)
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
> mean _the king and i_.

[Mike W.]

For example, just northwest of my home base airport, KOSU, there is an
intersection named DIPNE. It is on the V12 airway between the DQN and APE
vor's, but it doesn't appear on the sectional. So I guess not all
intersections appear on sectionals?

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike W." > wrote in message
> ...
> > OK I am just getting into the VFR GPS navigation thing. Here is my
> > question:
> > what is the origin of all of these intersections? I see some as airway
> > intersections on sectionals, but many seem random.
>
> Depends on what intersections you're talking about.
>
> However, many "intersections" on an airway are not actually places where
> another airway crosses. They are, instead, the intersection of that
airway
> and some reference from a navaid somewhere else. Usually for the purpose
of
> defining a distance, a transition route to an instrument approach, that
sort
> of thing.
>
> Without knowing exactly what intersection you're referring to, it's hard
to
> answer the question more specifically than that.
>
> > And why is it when I file an airway flight plan with AOPA flight
planner,
> > it
> > always throws a couple of these in the route?
>
> I guess you'd have to ask the folks who wrote the routing algorithm for
the
> AOPA flight planner. However, your guesses could be correct, or it could
be
> related to some maximum distance from a point to the destination allowed
by
> the routing algorithm. It's possible (I don't know, not having used the
> AOPA flight planner) that there's an option that tells it to only use
VORs;
> that would be an appropriate restriction on the routing algorithm for VFR
> flight, and would eliminate those intersections from your route.
>
> Pete
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Mike W." > wrote in message
...
> [...] So I guess not all intersections appear on sectionals?

That is correct. Especially those intersections created for the purpose of
IFR flight, one may find them only on instrument charts.

[Peter R.]

Paul Tomblin > wrote:

> If you're vfr, nobody cares how you navigate.

Back before my instrument rating, I once had a controller at my home
class C airport ask me if I could navigate to a nearby VOR. I answered
yes and was instructed to fly to the VOR for sequencing into the airport.

Now technically she probably didn't care how I got there, but the fact that
I could made her job just a little easier during that series of arrivals.

--
Peter


















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[Morgans]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote

> You're VFR with a GPS. Go direct. (Draw the line on a chart to make sure
> you don't cross any restricted airspace and the like.)

I seem to recall someone saying that when filing, put in the remarks
section, something like "VFR GPS onboard."

Helpful?
--
Jim in NC

[Newps]

Mike W. wrote:
> For example, just northwest of my home base airport, KOSU, there is an
> intersection named DIPNE. It is on the V12 airway between the DQN and APE
> vor's, but it doesn't appear on the sectional. So I guess not all
> intersections appear on sectionals?

A small percentage of the intersections appear on the sectional.

[john smith]

> > [...] So I guess not all intersections appear on sectionals?

> That is correct. Especially those intersections created for the purpose of
> IFR flight, one may find them only on instrument charts.

An example would be an intersection on an instrument approach that
defines an altitude step down point on the approach.

[N93332]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
> A small percentage of the intersections appear on the sectional.
>

Looking through http://www.airnav.com/airspace/fix/ shows quite a list of
intersections. Most aren't on the sectionals. Are they all on IFR charts?

-Greg B.
(kinda near MONTZ)

[George Patterson]

Mike W. wrote:
>
> And why is it when I file an airway flight plan with AOPA flight planner, it
> always throws a couple of these in the route? Why not just go from the last
> VOR direct to your destination airport? Does it assume that I have a GPS
> with a current database? Or is it assuming that if I am creating an airway
> route that I am IFR?

No, it's because you filed an *airway* plan. It will try to route you via the
airways, and most routes involve intersections. Use the "direct" planning
option. It will not put in any intersections -- nor will it put in VORs. So, if
you want to go from RDU to the Volunteer VOR and then into TYS, you would create
a flight plan from KRDU to KTYS and then drag the route over to the VOR on the
chart.

Or download AirplanLite. I like it a lot better.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Andrew Gideon]

Newps wrote:

> A small percentage of the intersections appear on the sectional.

So here's something I've wondered since I first began IFRing: What makes an
intersection worthy of appearance on a VFR chart?

- Andrew

[Morgans]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote

> If you're vfr, nobody cares how you navigate.

So you only use the "VFR GPS onboard", if you want to file direct on a IFR
flight plan?
--
Jim in NC

[kontiki]

N93332 wrote:

> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>A small percentage of the intersections appear on the sectional.
>>
>
>
> Looking through http://www.airnav.com/airspace/fix/ shows quite a list of
> intersections. Most aren't on the sectionals. Are they all on IFR charts?

Yes, and even a few more on STARS and SIDS

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:25:00 -0400, "Mike W."
> wrote:

>For example, just northwest of my home base airport, KOSU, there is an
>intersection named DIPNE. It is on the V12 airway between the DQN and APE
>vor's, but it doesn't appear on the sectional. So I guess not all
>intersections appear on sectionals?

Perhaps an IFR point, which by definition would not be on the (VFR)
sectional?


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:15:46 -0400, "Mike W."
> wrote:

>Yes that is the fastest way. I just have a hard time putting so much trust
>in one box.

Well, you have the chart, and the line you drew on it. That is your
backup system (or the primary system in my case, with a handheld GPS).


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:11:33 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>So you only use the "VFR GPS onboard", if you want to file direct on a IFR
>flight plan?

Well, I don't use it at all!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Denny]

Jeez Dan... In a Cub you can't fly direct for more than 30 seconds
anyway... The vortex off a butterfly's wings will alter your 'direct'
route...

denny

[Jay Honeck]

> So here's something I've wondered since I first began IFRing: What makes
> an
> intersection worthy of appearance on a VFR chart?

Here's the rule, straight from the FAR-AIM:

"IFR intersections are depicted on sectional charts only if by doing so
there will be a greater than 50% chance of covering up, obscuring, or
confusing something more important on that chart."

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[kontiki]

Morgans wrote:
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote
>
>
>>If you're vfr, nobody cares how you navigate.
>
>
> So you only use the "VFR GPS onboard", if you want to file direct on a IFR
> flight plan?

Technically you don't file "direct" if you can't legally file /G. You
can file direct between navaids. That being said, I have filed direct
(even though I am /U) and got the clearance. Often, I ask for direct
while enroute. Several times I have been asked by ATC if I want direct
while enroute. My Garmin 196 is well more than capable of allowing me
to do that (and everybody else knows it too).

[Peter Duniho]

"kontiki" > wrote in message
...
>> Looking through http://www.airnav.com/airspace/fix/ shows quite a list of
>> intersections. Most aren't on the sectionals. Are they all on IFR charts?
>
> Yes, and even a few more on STARS and SIDS

*All* are on IFR charts, and a few more are on STARS and SIDS? That's an
odd way of wording it. There would have to be more intersections than all
of them for that to happen. :)

Besides, the charts depicting STARS and SIDS *are* IFR charts.

Pete

[Andrew Gideon]

Peter Duniho wrote:

> ThereÂ*wouldÂ*haveÂ*toÂ*beÂ*moreÂ*intersectionsÂ*t hanÂ*all
> of them for that to happen.Â*Â*:)

Douglas Adams once wrote of a computer "with more computing power than all
the computers on Earth, including itself."

- Andrew