Hello Dahli

[Jay Beckman]

So I'm in Tucson, AZ this morning, doing a walk around and getting ready to
mount up and fly back to homebase after a great little sunrise XC hop
(really amazing sky today...huge God's Eye shafts of light through
virga...awesome...) and I'm also pausing every couple of minutes to snap
some photos of the AZ ANG F16s doing thier thing when a Tucson Police
Officer saunters over and asks if I plan on departing within the next 10
minutes or so... Inwardly, I'm girding myself for the discussion that I was
sure was to come...

As it turns out, the Dahli Llama (yes, THAT Dahli Llama...) was in town and
the immaculate G5 (which I got a good photo of...) near the GA terminal was
waiting for him and would I mind waiting until his party was loaded up? I
was so suprised to find out what all the fuss was about (I thought I noticed
a higher number of police cars parked near the base of the tower...and then
there were those secret service-looking types who just may have been
speaking into their cuffs...), all I could do was just say, "Sure, No
Problem."

Nice thing is, the same Police Officer and one of the security detail both
came over and thanked me for waiting the extra five minutes.

Got the ATIS, got my clearance and had a great flight back...

Just another day in the wonderful world of aviation...

Feeling a bit holier today,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Denny]

Go along to get along was the smart thing to do...
Whether it was the right thing to do is open for debate...
The Dali Lama is just another bloke who pulls on his BVD's one leg at
a time... He is not entitled to special protection under the moving TFR
following the President, VP, etc... His airplane is entitled to take
the active at a public airport when it's turn comes in the 'first come,
first served' sequence as specified in the FAR and AIM...
Every time we in GA allow ourselves to be pushed around by the
'authorities' we simply add another brick to the prison they are
building around us, and we allow the police officers involved to
strengthen their personal belief that their badge gives them the right
to "accost and detain" anyone in public areas without either a warrant
or belief that person has broken the law... An action that the
Constitution and the Amendments specifically forbid...
Anyway, I may have have done the same as you, depending upon my level
of testosterone at that moment... Or, I may have rhetorically asked
them if I were piloting a scheduled airliner with 400 paying passengers
would I have to wait on the Dali Lama - and then advised them this is a
public airport, I am the public, and I am using it now... The Dali
Lama's airplane can take it's turn as federal regulations specify... I
might have also pointed out the the Dali Lama represents a religion and
by prohibiting my use of public spaces because of his presence the
police as an arm of the state are promoting a religion, an act
specifically forbidden by both Federal Court and US Supreme Court
rulings...
And I probably would have gotten in hot water, again. <sigh>

denny

[Larry Dighera]

On 21 Sep 2005 04:29:27 -0700, "Denny" > wrote in
. com>::

> we allow the police officers involved to
>strengthen their personal belief that their badge gives them the right
>to "accost and detain" anyone in public areas without either a warrant
>or belief that person has broken the law... An action that the
>Constitution and the Amendments specifically forbid...

As reported on this newsgroup: http://tinyurl.com/ak699

[Jay Honeck]

> Just another day in the wonderful world of aviation...

You were held up at public airport for the *Dahli Llama*? In Arizona, USA?

That's even worse than being held up for John Edwards last year in Des
Moines!

I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[JohnH]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Just another day in the wonderful world of aviation...
>
> You were held up at public airport for the *Dahli Llama*? In
> Arizona, USA?
> That's even worse than being held up for John Edwards last year in Des
> Moines!
>
> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.

Would you feel the same if it were the pope?

[JohnH]

> a time... He is not entitled to special protection under the moving
> TFR following the President, VP, etc...

I don't believe these public servants deseve special treatment either.

[JohnH]

Martin Hotze wrote:
> "JohnH" > wrote:
>
>>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>>
>> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?
>
> the Pope is head of Vatican City (Holy See)

And?

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-09-21, JohnH > wrote:
>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>
> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?

Actually, yes I would. The Pope can wait in line like everyone else.

I think it's ludicrous the amount of space leaders are given. The
President of the USA for example is nowhere near important enough to
require a 30nm radius TFR following him (he does have a backup after
all).

I thought it was quite ironic when I made my 100th year of powered
flight celebratory flight that I was free to make that flight, but
people within 30nm of where the actual original flight took place were
not!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Dylan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2005-09-21, JohnH > wrote:
>>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>>
>> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?
>
> Actually, yes I would. The Pope can wait in line like everyone else.
>
> I think it's ludicrous the amount of space leaders are given. The
> President of the USA for example is nowhere near important enough to
> require a 30nm radius TFR following him (he does have a backup after
> all).
>
> I thought it was quite ironic when I made my 100th year of powered
> flight celebratory flight that I was free to make that flight, but
> people within 30nm of where the actual original flight took place were
> not!
>
> --


While I think the 30NM is a little much do you understand the damage to the
US and world economy if the President were to be killed. The stock market
drop alone would reduce world wealth by a significant amount.

The bad will if the Pope or Dahli Lama were killed on US soil would be huge.

[George Patterson]

Martin Hotze wrote:
>
> he (the Pope) has the same rights as any other head of state (diplomacy,
> imunity, ...). Don't know about the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama is arguably the head of Tibet. He's been in exile since a few
years after China invaded and annexed Tibet. Given the attitude of the U.S.
towards "Red" China, I'd bet that the government sitll officially recognizes the
Dalai Lama as a head of state.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:
>
>> While I think the 30NM is a little much do you understand the damage to
>> the
>> US and world economy if the President were to be killed. The stock market
>> drop alone would reduce world wealth by a significant amount.
>
>
> Not if you wouldn't make such a hype about this person (whoever holds it)
> and the office. He is replaceable, the vice-president is here to step up
> behind him.
>
> #m
> --
> Three witches watch three Swatch watches.
> Which witch watches which Swatch watch?

Well, if you haven't noticed the economic markets pretty much are based on
hype and the worse kind of hype, as far as economic markets are concerned is
hype about uncertainty. So if a President gets whacked there is all sorts of
uncertainty. Will the VP be up to the job? Will we go to war? Will be start
throwing nukes around? Add to this that the largest perceived threat is from
folks that are in one way or another tied to the counties that produce our
primary source of energy and you have a situation that just oozes
uncertainty. So let's protect the guy in the office. It's cheaper in the
long run.

[Jay Beckman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:AudYe.356708$_o.211591@attbi_s71...
>> Just another day in the wonderful world of aviation...
>
> You were held up at public airport for the *Dahli Llama*? In Arizona,
> USA?
>
> That's even worse than being held up for John Edwards last year in Des
> Moines!
>
> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

C'mon Jay ... Apples and Oranges,

I was not held up...and there was no official "Ground Stop."

Your experience with John Edwards was caused by the Secret Service. I was
asked politely by a beat cop if I would mind waiting five extra minutes
until the delegation was on board their plane. And, if I hadn't been
otherwise engaged with photography matters, I would have been long gone
before his convoy (all of 2 cars and two police SUVs) got to the ramp.

In fact, I taxied out right behind the G-V and could have done a lot more
damage to his plane with a spinning prop than I could have standing a couple
hundred yards away watching while he boarded.

The man is a guest in our country (in general) and in MY state in particular
.... Personally, I'd rather give the Dahli Llama five minutes than give
anyone a chance to think that Americans (in general) and GA pilots in
particular are ignorant, arrogant and uncooperative.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:15:26 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in <ZqhYe.69133$7f5.61661@okepread01>::

>Will the VP be up to the job?

I thought Cheney had been pulling Bush's strings for the past five
years.

Or was it Rove, the Bush advisor who outed the CIA operative, and was
made a FEMA wag instead of being fired as baby Bush promised the
American people?

[Jay Honeck]

>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>
> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?

Yes -- although the Pope has some credibility behind his quasi-diplomatic
status.

I don't know what's worse -- having second-rate politicians thinking that
they're better than the rest of us, or having "men of the cloth" thinking
the same thing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"JohnH" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> Just another day in the wonderful world of aviation...
>>
>> You were held up at public airport for the *Dahli Llama*? In
>> Arizona, USA?
>> That's even worse than being held up for John Edwards last year in Des
>> Moines!
>>
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

>> That's even worse than being held up for John Edwards last year in Des
>> Moines!

> C'mon Jay ... Apples and Oranges,
>
> I was not held up...and there was no official "Ground Stop."

I understand. But while it's true that no leathernecks with machine guns
stopped you from approaching your aircraft (as happened to my family when a
two-bit politician was "expected" to arrive "any minute" in Des Moines last
year), the implications and results are similar.

I'm sure the Dahli Llama is a heckuva nice guy -- most religious people
are -- and I'm glad you didn't mind the inconvenience. But that doesn't
change the fact that the whole affair was a ridiculous (albeit small)
infringement upon your personal freedom.

> ... Personally, I'd rather give the Dahli Llama five minutes than give
> anyone a chance to think that Americans (in general) and GA pilots in
> particular are ignorant, arrogant and uncooperative.

I'd have probably done the same thing as you -- being polite and cooperative
with the police comes naturally for most of us.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:56:49 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote in
<lOjYe.394864$xm3.272245@attbi_s21>::

>I'm sure the Dahli Llama is a heckuva nice guy -- most religious people
>are --

The Catholic pedo, er... priests are nearly saintly. :-)

[Skywise]

Larry Dighera > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:56:49 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote in
> <lOjYe.394864$xm3.272245@attbi_s21>::
>
>>I'm sure the Dahli Llama is a heckuva nice guy -- most religious people
>>are --
>
> The Catholic pedo, er... priests are nearly saintly. :-)

I recall seeing an interview with the Dalai Lama, I think on
60 minutes, some years ago. I was very impressed at the
intelligence and thoughtfulness of the man. His remarks
were always very direct, no double talk mumbo-jumbo. For a
religious leader he was very down to earth and personable.
No holier-than-thou attitude.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Rich Lemert]

Skywise wrote:

> I recall seeing an interview with the Dalai Lama, I think on
> 60 minutes, some years ago. I was very impressed at the
> intelligence and thoughtfulness of the man. His remarks
> were always very direct, no double talk mumbo-jumbo. For a
> religious leader he was very down to earth and personable.
> No holier-than-thou attitude.
>
> Brian

If I understand it correctly, his religion believes that there
are many paths to enlightenment/heaven/nirvana/whatever, and
that how you get there is entirely up to you. Further, while
they are plenty willing to share their thoughts, you have to
take the initiative to ask - they're not going to cram their
beliefs down your throat.

All-in-all a very refreshing attitude compared to many western
religions/religous leaders, where you're automatically doomed to
hell unless you believe exactly as they believe.

[JohnH]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>>
>> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?
>
> Yes -- although the Pope has some credibility behind his
> quasi-diplomatic status.
>
> I don't know what's worse -- having second-rate politicians thinking
> that they're better than the rest of us, or having "men of the cloth"
> thinking the same thing.

Agreed. WRT politicians, whatever became of the concept of "all men created
equal"?

[Jay Beckman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:lOjYe.394864$xm3.272245@attbi_s21...
>>> That's even worse than being held up for John Edwards last year in Des
>>> Moines!
>
>> C'mon Jay ... Apples and Oranges,
>>
>> I was not held up...and there was no official "Ground Stop."
>
> I understand. But while it's true that no leathernecks with machine guns
> stopped you from approaching your aircraft (as happened to my family when
> a two-bit politician was "expected" to arrive "any >minute" in Des Moines
> last year), the implications and results are similar.

No they're not. I was never prevented from accessing the ramp or my
aircraft and I was not told I couldn't fire up and taxi out. I was asked
something, not told. In fact, had I not walked out to my plane, and just
sat right where I was on the "back porch" of the Tucson Executive Terminal,
I probably would have been able to get some really good photos. But had
they asked me to not use my camera, I would have complied as I was not there
in any official press capacity. Now, if I was "working press" that's a
whole different matter...

>I'm sure the Dahli Llama is a heckuva nice guy -- most religious people
>are -- and I'm glad you didn't mind the inconvenience. But that doesn't
>change the fact that the whole affair was a ridiculous (albeit >small)
>infringement upon your personal freedom.

I disagree. This was not a moment to invoke the second coming of Thomas
Payne.

>> ... Personally, I'd rather give the Dahli Llama five minutes than give
>> anyone a chance to think that Americans (in general) and GA pilots in
>> particular are ignorant, arrogant and uncooperative.
>
> I'd have probably done the same thing as you -- being polite and
> cooperative with the police comes naturally for most of us.

The heck with the cop! Any idea just how bad your karma could get if you
mess with the #1 Budhist in the world !??!

Jay B

[George Patterson]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> The heck with the cop! Any idea just how bad your karma could get if you
> mess with the #1 Budhist in the world !??!

He'd be a grasshopper in his next life.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:TmjYe.394831$xm3.301113@attbi_s21...
>>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>>
>> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?
>
> Yes -- although the Pope has some credibility behind his quasi-diplomatic
> status.
>
> I don't know what's worse -- having second-rate politicians thinking that
> they're better than the rest of us, or having "men of the cloth" thinking
> the same thing.

That's the story of the last 10,000 years of human history, going all the
way back to witch doctors and shamans along side tribal leaders.

[Matt Barrow]

"JohnH" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>> I'm torn between laughter and incredulity.
>>>
>>> Would you feel the same if it were the pope?
>>
>> Yes -- although the Pope has some credibility behind his
>> quasi-diplomatic status.
>>
>> I don't know what's worse -- having second-rate politicians thinking
>> that they're better than the rest of us, or having "men of the cloth"
>> thinking the same thing.
>
> Agreed. WRT politicians, whatever became of the concept of "all men
> created equal"?
Well, first of all it's "created", and second, people have always had a
tendency to deify the tribal leaders/kings/politicians.

Of course, the politicians and high priests have always done everything they
can to encourage that behavior.

[Frank Stutzman]

Skywise > wrote:

> I recall seeing an interview with the Dalai Lama, I think on
> 60 minutes, some years ago. I was very impressed at the
> intelligence and thoughtfulness of the man. His remarks
> were always very direct, no double talk mumbo-jumbo. For a
> religious leader he was very down to earth and personable.
> No holier-than-thou attitude.

A friend of mine used to be a flight attendant for Delta. Many years ago
she was on a flight out of London when a group of Tibetian monks got on
the plane and settled in first class. This was a bit of an unusual
occurance for her and, being the gregarious sort of person she is, she
gets into a fairly animated conversation with them.

She had a great time with one of them who she found to be a very charming
man. She was was laughing at his jokes, touching his arm or shoulder and
generally having a very pleasnt time.

Wasn't until she got off the plane and saw the throng of people meeting
the plane that she realized that she had been flirting with the Dahli
Lama.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR