Private Pilot's License

[Vern Torino]

Haven't begun any training yet. Still considering time and cost factors. One
problem is my job will only avail me to fly every other week, so I figure
it'll take me at least the better part of a year to get licensed. My
question is, after licensing what would be a likely minimum flight time and
frequency to maintain proficiency? Appreciate any helpful comments.

[Peter Duniho]

"Vern Torino" > wrote in message
...
> Haven't begun any training yet. Still considering time and cost factors.
> One problem is my job will only avail me to fly every other week, so I
> figure it'll take me at least the better part of a year to get licensed.
> My question is, after licensing what would be a likely minimum flight time
> and frequency to maintain proficiency?

You didn't ask, but frankly, if you're only flying every other week, "the
better part of a year" is overly optimistic. You'll spend enormous amounts
of time reminding yourself what you did last lesson, rather than making
forward progress on your learning.

That's ignoring the fact that flying every other week only gets you about
25-30 hours of training in, for a certificate that has a *minimum* of 40
hours, and the only people who do it at or near the minimum hours are people
who pick up flying naturally, AND who are having their lessons regularly (a
couple of times a week, at least).

I'd guess a person flying every other week could wind up with at least 80
hours before they are good enough to pass the checkride, which is more like
three years at that rate.

As far as your actual question goes: it depends a lot on the pilot, but
generally speaking, flying at least one hour once or twice a month is
probably enough to stay reasonably proficient. For some pilots, once a week
is the absolute minimum, and for others they can pick it up again after a
couple of months. But both of those possibilities are unusual, IMHO. Of
course, it also depends on your definition of "proficient". :) And more
seriously, it also depends on what you do with those flights. One takeoff
and one landing aren't going to help that much if you only do that once a
month.

Pete

[cjcampbell]

Peter is pretty much right on. I guess the real question is, why do you
want to learn to fly? If it is important enough to you then you will
make the adjustments needed to fly frequently enough to make it
worthwhile. If not, then not.

Once licensed, you should be able to remain reasonably proficient
flying once a month or so, depending on what you want to do.

[Cub Driver]

You might consider taking some vacation time, if that's an option.
It's hard to progress on a fortnightly lesson!

I don't feel comfortable if I don't fly 50 hours a year. That's a bit
more than an hour a week, since in the nature of things (New Hampshire
winters, grass field, Piper Cub) I don't fly much if at all from
January through March. (And yes, I feel very rusty in April.)

I read of a pilot who quit flying because he couldn't maintain the 80
hours a year that was his comfort level.


On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 05:51:55 GMT, "Vern Torino"
> wrote:

>Haven't begun any training yet. Still considering time and cost factors. One
>problem is my job will only avail me to fly every other week, so I figure
>it'll take me at least the better part of a year to get licensed. My
>question is, after licensing what would be a likely minimum flight time and
>frequency to maintain proficiency? Appreciate any helpful comments.
>


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[[email protected]]

Cub Driver wrote:
> You might consider taking some vacation time, if that's an option.
> It's hard to progress on a fortnightly lesson!
>
> I don't feel comfortable if I don't fly 50 hours a year. That's a bit
> more than an hour a week, since in the nature of things (New Hampshire
> winters, grass field, Piper Cub) I don't fly much if at all from
> January through March. (And yes, I feel very rusty in April.)

Two of the partners in my 172 have flown probably 25 hours per year in
the last two years. Generally they fly shorter trips, on nice days, and
maybe one longer XC each year. They take instruction every spring
before returning to regular flying. Both are also instrument-rated and
maintain legal currency, but do not fly in IMC.

I think one distinction here is that some planes (a J-3 comes to mind)
require more sharpness on the controls, and some, like a 172 or
Cherokee, are more forgiving. I certainly would not want to ride in the
back seat with either of these guys flying a Bonanza, but I feel fine
with them in the 172.

-cwk.

[Jay Honeck]

> Haven't begun any training yet. Still considering time and cost factors.
> One problem is my job will only avail me to fly every other week, so I
> figure it'll take me at least the better part of a year to get licensed.
> My question is, after licensing what would be a likely minimum flight time
> and frequency to maintain proficiency? Appreciate any helpful comments.

As much as it pains me to say this: Don't get your PPL right now.

If you can only fly once every 14 days, you will spend most of your time
re-learning what you have already been taught. It will be enormously more
expensive, and you will be more likely to get frustrated and quit.

The best way to get your PPL is to treat it like a semester of college.
Fly 3 times each week, Mon-Wed-Fri. Study bookwork on Tue-Thu. By doing
it this way, you will maximize retention of what you have learned, and your
progress will be smooth and quick. My wife, Mary, and I both did it this
way, and it took us each about 4 months, start to finish.

Was it tough, with kids, a house, and two jobs? You bet. But, in the long
run, we knew it was the best way to do it.

As far as proficiency goes, when you're a new pilot you will need to fly
more often to stay in that "comfort zone" -- probably an hour a week, or
more. As time goes on, and your flying skills becomes more ingrained, you
can probably drop down to every other week -- although personally I am not
comfortable flying that seldom.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> If you can only fly once every 14 days, you will spend most of your time
> re-learning what you have already been taught. It will be enormously more
> expensive, and you will be more likely to get frustrated and quit.
>
> The best way to get your PPL is to treat it like a semester of college.
> Fly 3 times each week, Mon-Wed-Fri. Study bookwork on Tue-Thu. By doing
> it this way, you will maximize retention of what you have learned, and your
> progress will be smooth and quick. My wife, Mary, and I both did it this
> way, and it took us each about 4 months, start to finish.



Excellent advice, Jay. I did it that way too and I'm convinced it cost me MUCH
less in the long run.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[OtisWinslow]

You kind of have a dillema. I think to make reasonable progress you're
going to need to fly 3+ times per week on a continuing basis without
missing much. Doing so will get you through in a minimum of time. You'll
also need to prepare ahead of time for each lesson and have some
goals for each one. Flying every other week will have you spending
a good share of lesson time backtracking to get back to where you
were after the previous lesson, and will take a lot longer to get up to
speed.

Taking vacation and flying a whole lot in a week (like 20+) will likely end
up
in overload, especially when you're first learning to fly.


"Vern Torino" > wrote in message
...
> Haven't begun any training yet. Still considering time and cost factors.
> One problem is my job will only avail me to fly every other week, so I
> figure it'll take me at least the better part of a year to get licensed.
> My question is, after licensing what would be a likely minimum flight time
> and frequency to maintain proficiency? Appreciate any helpful comments.
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Taking vacation and flying a whole lot in a week (like 20+) will likely
> end up
> in overload, especially when you're first learning to fly.

Agree 100%.

As a new student, an hour of flying was like running 5 miles. Everything
was so new and intense, I was wiped after a lesson. I remember telling my
instructor, after one particularly intense 90 minute lesson, that I didn't
think any more new learning was taking place in my wee little brain. Mary
had the same experience with her instructor.

IMHO, 20 hours in a week would lead to sensory overload, and would do more
for your flight school's bottom line than anything else.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kevin Kubiak]

I agree 100% with Jay. Having recently (June) passed my checkride,
I can tell you first hand what Jay is saying.

I started out taking lessons in winter 2004 (mistake #1, since I live in the
Chicago area), pretty much on the weekends, with a young newly minted CFII. I
spent almost 6 mos, and about 38 hrs and no solo. Basically could not retain
from lesson to lesson what was taught. I reached a plateau with landings. I
decided after getting advice from the good folks here, discussing it in the news
groups, and with other pilot friends, that I needed to change CFIs.

First thing we did is increase lesson times to 2 sometimes 3/week. I took a
ground school, 1 night a week, to get through the written. I soloed 25 hrs
later (some politics with club policy was involved, as I was ready much sooner).
I then ran into weather issues for cross country/night, etc... training and
work issues, that forced me to finish up about 18 months after I originally
started, at about a 40% more cost than I planned for.

So my advice is don't start until you can put in the time that is required
to devote to it, as Jay recommends and you have the resources committed to pay
for it. Things will go much smoother for you.

As far as retaining proficiency, I have gone 2 wks once, due to weather and
plane availability and that was too long. Basics were good, but the finer
points were a little rusty. Nothing an hour or so of doing touch and goes with
a good crosswind didn't cure. I personally try to fly once a week now, or 10
days max. But I also find I cannot wait that long and develop the need for an
"attitude adjustment" due to other job/life stress. Yes, I fly to help
relieve stress.

But that is a different topic.

Kevin Kubiak - PP-ASEL

Jay Honeck wrote:
> As much as it pains me to say this: Don't get your PPL right now.
>
> If you can only fly once every 14 days, you will spend most of your time
> re-learning what you have already been taught. It will be enormously more
> expensive, and you will be more likely to get frustrated and quit.
>
> The best way to get your PPL is to treat it like a semester of college.
> Fly 3 times each week, Mon-Wed-Fri. Study bookwork on Tue-Thu. By doing
> it this way, you will maximize retention of what you have learned, and your
> progress will be smooth and quick. My wife, Mary, and I both did it this
> way, and it took us each about 4 months, start to finish.
>
> Was it tough, with kids, a house, and two jobs? You bet. But, in the long
> run, we knew it was the best way to do it.
>
> As far as proficiency goes, when you're a new pilot you will need to fly
> more often to stay in that "comfort zone" -- probably an hour a week, or
> more. As time goes on, and your flying skills becomes more ingrained, you
> can probably drop down to every other week -- although personally I am not
> comfortable flying that seldom.

[Gary]

Vern didn't actually say that he can only fly ONCE every two weeks.

If that is the case, it will indeed be a challenge to complete the
license in a reasonable amount of time.

If he can get in a few flights during a flying week, then he has to
skip a week due to travel or work schedules, it won't be quite as bad.

Something I've found useful as a low-hours student pilot who gets to
fly about once a week (weather limitations, mostly) is to write down
detailed notes about the intangible stuff I learn on each flight. Not
just facts learned, not just things related to ground school or the
upcoming knowledge test, but my perceptions and recollections of the
flight. What does the sight picture over the nose look like during a
proper climb-out? Where was the seat adjusted, since this affects the
sight picture? How was the sensation felt in an uncoordinated turn
different than what I felt in a coordinated turn? How much control
input did I feel I was using for a give maneuver? What feedback was I
getting from the instructor at various points in the flight? It all
gets written down, and I review it before the next flight. I find it
makes the preceeding flight(s) fresher in my mind, and it helps
minimize the effects of going a week or so without flight time.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Kevin Kubiak wrote:
> I agree 100% with Jay. Having recently (June) passed my checkride,
> I can tell you first hand what Jay is saying.
>
> I started out taking lessons in winter 2004 (mistake #1, since I live in the


63 hours to solo? How long did it take you to get your license? (BTW,
congrats)




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Kevin Kubiak]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> Kevin Kubiak wrote:
>
>>I agree 100% with Jay. Having recently (June) passed my checkride,
>>I can tell you first hand what Jay is saying.
>>
>>I started out taking lessons in winter 2004 (mistake #1, since I live in the
>
>
>
> 63 hours to solo? How long did it take you to get your license? (BTW,
> congrats)
>
>
>
>
Grand total: 105 hrs. That includes scheduling 6 different times
for checkride over a 7 week interval. Fired first DE, after being blown off
because she just got back from vacation previous day and wanted to take a break,
then could not reschedule cause she was going out of town again. So we went
with a different DE. Also includes, off 10 days for planned vacation trip with
wife prior to sign-off for checkride, plus CFI
wanting to fly with me 1 time per week during the 7 week interval.

[John Huthmaker]

Although I am in agreement with some of this, I am doing most of my training
at every other week intervals. I have only accumulated 36 hours, and I am
right around the corner from my checkride. It really depends on the pilot.
If you pick it up quickly, and retain it well, every other week is fine. If
not, then Peter is absolutely correct.

--
John Huthmaker

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Vern Torino" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Haven't begun any training yet. Still considering time and cost factors.
>> One problem is my job will only avail me to fly every other week, so I
>> figure it'll take me at least the better part of a year to get licensed.
>> My question is, after licensing what would be a likely minimum flight
>> time and frequency to maintain proficiency?
>
> You didn't ask, but frankly, if you're only flying every other week, "the
> better part of a year" is overly optimistic. You'll spend enormous
> amounts of time reminding yourself what you did last lesson, rather than
> making forward progress on your learning.
>
> That's ignoring the fact that flying every other week only gets you about
> 25-30 hours of training in, for a certificate that has a *minimum* of 40
> hours, and the only people who do it at or near the minimum hours are
> people who pick up flying naturally, AND who are having their lessons
> regularly (a couple of times a week, at least).
>
> I'd guess a person flying every other week could wind up with at least 80
> hours before they are good enough to pass the checkride, which is more
> like three years at that rate.
>
> As far as your actual question goes: it depends a lot on the pilot, but
> generally speaking, flying at least one hour once or twice a month is
> probably enough to stay reasonably proficient. For some pilots, once a
> week is the absolute minimum, and for others they can pick it up again
> after a couple of months. But both of those possibilities are unusual,
> IMHO. Of course, it also depends on your definition of "proficient". :)
> And more seriously, it also depends on what you do with those flights.
> One takeoff and one landing aren't going to help that much if you only do
> that once a month.
>
> Pete
>

[Jay Honeck]

>> 63 hours to solo? How long did it take you to get your license? (BTW,
>> congrats)
>>
> Grand total: 105 hrs.

Congratulations, Kevin. You truly deserve the Persistence Award, as most
mere mortals would have probably quit in frustration.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> 63 hours to solo? How long did it take you to get your license? (BTW,
>>> congrats)
>>>
>> Grand total: 105 hrs.
>
> Congratulations, Kevin. You truly deserve the Persistence Award, as most
> mere mortals would have probably quit in frustration.


Or in poverty. <G>


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Jay Honeck]

>> Congratulations, Kevin. You truly deserve the Persistence Award, as most
>> mere mortals would have probably quit in frustration.
>
> Or in poverty. <G>

Good point. I ran out of money almost precisely after taking my check-ride.
It was a very close thing, indeed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Vern Torino]

Yes Gary, I was vague about my fly-week. During that week there's some
chance I might be able to get in two one-hour week day flights (depending
on weather, day light, and the remote possible chance of getting off from
work a little early by starting work early or skipping lunch), and one
two-hour weekend flight. That would give me about eight flight hours per
month. If I can't get off from work early, then I might have to jump
through more hoops by flying early in the morning before work, i.e. 6-7a.m.
With a couple of staggered weeks of vacation, I could get in three two-hour
flights each week (or go broke, which I think would come first). Except for
the vacation days, I would still have basically eight hours of flight per
month. Far from best, much better than once per week (I hope), but maybe
still not good enough.
All of you have given very noteworthy and insightful help. I welcome any and
all. Thanks.

"Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Vern didn't actually say that he can only fly ONCE every two weeks.
>
> If that is the case, it will indeed be a challenge to complete the
> license in a reasonable amount of time.
>
> If he can get in a few flights during a flying week, then he has to
> skip a week due to travel or work schedules, it won't be quite as bad.
>
> Something I've found useful as a low-hours student pilot who gets to
> fly about once a week (weather limitations, mostly) is to write down
> detailed notes about the intangible stuff I learn on each flight. Not
> just facts learned, not just things related to ground school or the
> upcoming knowledge test, but my perceptions and recollections of the
> flight. What does the sight picture over the nose look like during a
> proper climb-out? Where was the seat adjusted, since this affects the
> sight picture? How was the sensation felt in an uncoordinated turn
> different than what I felt in a coordinated turn? How much control
> input did I feel I was using for a give maneuver? What feedback was I
> getting from the instructor at various points in the flight? It all
> gets written down, and I review it before the next flight. I find it
> makes the preceeding flight(s) fresher in my mind, and it helps
> minimize the effects of going a week or so without flight time.
>

[Kevin Kubiak]

Thanks Jay! I hope to make it up your way some day.

I budgeted for about 60 hrs, I was fortunate enough to
have received a very good unexpected :) bonus from work that year, so
I used a lot more of it that I planned to. I am also very fortunate
to have a very understanding spouse, who said, you can't quit now.
Her support helped me get through it. The funny thing is she, doesn't
fly very well as a passenger. Even on the "big iron" she has problems.

I did take her up a few weeks ago, and she did better than she thought, but
she still had some problems. But that is another story.

Thanks again!

Kevin Kubiak -PP-ASEL

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>Congratulations, Kevin. You truly deserve the Persistence Award, as most
>>>mere mortals would have probably quit in frustration.
>>
>>Or in poverty. <G>
>
>
> Good point. I ran out of money almost precisely after taking my check-ride.
> It was a very close thing, indeed.

[Allen]

"John Huthmaker" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Although I am in agreement with some of this, I am doing most of my
> training at every other week intervals. I have only accumulated 36 hours,
> and I am right around the corner from my checkride. It really depends on
> the pilot. If you pick it up quickly, and retain it well, every other week
> is fine. If not, then Peter is absolutely correct.
>

I agree with John. It took me more than two years to get my private. I had
to get another flight physical it took so long. Passed my checkride at 44
hours with an FAA examiner. Everybody learns and retains information at
different rates.

Start training and keep your nose in the books as much as you can. Flying
is 90% mental and 10% physical. You will get there!

Allen

[John T]

I'll probably have just over 100 hours by the time I take my checkride.
This is mostly thanks to medical paperwork! I was just about ready to
take my ride this past spring, when we (my instructor and I) looked into
what was needed to be done because of my medical restriction. Turns out
I didn't have the letter of authorization in my file for the medical
flight test, so I had to get info on the FAA on what they needed, which
was an eye exam cause of my LASIK surgery (had this done before, but
they didn't get the form the doctor fills out), then after I sent that
in, they (FAA) wanted up to date hearing tests and a recommendation on
headsets from my audiologist, who went had to ask the manufacturer of my
cochlear implant if the method I used was OK, then she went on vacation...

I've just been told she's sent me the letter to send to the FAA, which
then I'll have to wait for the FAA to send the letter of authorization.

I haven't flown for over 2 months at this point, but now I'll start again.

John

[Allen]

"John T" > wrote in message
...
> I'll probably have just over 100 hours by the time I take my checkride.
> This is mostly thanks to medical paperwork! I was just about ready to take
> my ride this past spring, when we (my instructor and I) looked into what
> was needed to be done because of my medical restriction. Turns out I
> didn't have the letter of authorization in my file for the medical flight
> test, so I had to get info on the FAA on what they needed, which was an
> eye exam cause of my LASIK surgery (had this done before, but they didn't
> get the form the doctor fills out), then after I sent that in, they (FAA)
> wanted up to date hearing tests and a recommendation on headsets from my
> audiologist, who went had to ask the manufacturer of my cochlear implant
> if the method I used was OK, then she went on vacation...
>
> I've just been told she's sent me the letter to send to the FAA, which
> then I'll have to wait for the FAA to send the letter of authorization.
>
> I haven't flown for over 2 months at this point, but now I'll start again.
>
> John

Mine was a medical checkride also, I do not have a left hand. It was a much
simpler thing 23 years ago.

Allen

[Jon Kraus]

My wife isn't in "love" with flying but she does like to go places. If I
say let's go out and jsut fly around for an hour or so she suddenly has
to wash her hair... I I say let fly to another state and stay at a B & B
then she's like "what a great idea!!"

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ


Kevin Kubiak wrote:
> Thanks Jay! I hope to make it up your way some day.
>
> I budgeted for about 60 hrs, I was fortunate enough to
> have received a very good unexpected :) bonus from work that year, so
> I used a lot more of it that I planned to. I am also very fortunate
> to have a very understanding spouse, who said, you can't quit now.
> Her support helped me get through it. The funny thing is she, doesn't
> fly very well as a passenger. Even on the "big iron" she has problems.
>
> I did take her up a few weeks ago, and she did better than she thought, but
> she still had some problems. But that is another story.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Kevin Kubiak -PP-ASEL
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>>> Congratulations, Kevin. You truly deserve the Persistence Award, as
>>>> most
>>>> mere mortals would have probably quit in frustration.
>>>
>>>
>>> Or in poverty. <G>
>>
>>
>>
>> Good point. I ran out of money almost precisely after taking my
>> check-ride. It was a very close thing, indeed.