Trial flying lesson

[Ice blonde]

Hi

Due to a freak chance meeting with a pilot in training and an aircraft
engineer, I have managed to talk myself into taking a trial flying
lesson.

Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.

Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
commercial jet?

Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
victim to witness your trial?

Do they have sick bags?

Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
it?

All other helpful information appreciated, this is not a troll, I'm
serious.

Many thanks

[N93332]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi
>
> Due to a freak chance meeting with a pilot in training and an aircraft
> engineer, I have managed to talk myself into taking a trial flying
> lesson.
>
> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.

There are many pilots, myself included, that are afraid of heights.
Standing on a ladder or roof scares the s* out of me, but flying in small
planes doesn't have the same effect.

> Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
> commercial jet?

Yes, at times, clear your ears during accents and decents by yawning or
chewing gum. It's usually not as bad as you get on an airline though...

> Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
> victim to witness your trial?

It doesn't matter too much. It's probably up to the instructor if she/he
allows a passenger during the intro flight.

> Do they have sick bags?

Yes. I haven't needed to use it, yet...

> Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

No. Unless you're doing aerobatics, a chute isn't required. If something
goes wrong like the engine quitting and not restarting, the plane will still
land fine,, maybe off airport though...

> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
> it?

Very! Once you try it, you'll wonder why you waited so long...

> All other helpful information appreciated, this is not a troll, I'm
> serious.
>
> Many thanks

Try it, you'll (probably) like it!

[Dudley Henriques]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi
>
> Due to a freak chance meeting with a pilot in training and an aircraft
> engineer, I have managed to talk myself into taking a trial flying
> lesson.
>
> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.
>
> Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
> commercial jet?

You will not experience the eustachian tube issues in a light airplane at
low altitude that make some people uncomfortable on airliners.
>
> Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
> victim to witness your trial?

Up to you, but if a trial flight is your goal, you might want to consider
going with just the instructor. Distractions having a pax along on that
first flight can get in the way and the flight become more of a simple ride
than the instructional value you might be seeking. It's up to you to make
that decision.
Personally, as a CFI, I prefer first flights done with only myself and the
potential student. If carrying a passenger is desired, I would suggest a
pleasure flight and do the introductory flight another time.
>
> Do they have sick bags?
Smart FBO's usually carry them, but take my word on it; if you know they are
there and you're thinking about them being there, I'll give you odds on
before the flight is over, you'll be grabbing for one :-)
Just pick a nice day....evening is a great time to schedule an introductory
flight. The air is smooth and you can relax and enjoy things more. Also, if
relaxed, and with any CFI worth the title, you will learn more, retain more,
and come away from the flight enjoying the experience.
>
> Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong

Don't worry. On a first flight, (based only on the type of questions you
have asked here ) if anything THAT bad went wrong, you probably would be too
panicked to use the chute anyway. :-))))
Don't worry. You won't need a chute. What you'll be doing isn't anywhere
NEAR that dangerous. Just relax and have fun.

>
> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
> it?

If you can manage to handle the "fears" you have posted here BEFORE taking
an intro flight, and if the CFI you fly with is any good at all, you will
come out of that airplane with a smile so big on your puss that it will
probably take six strong men to hold you back from grabbing the first phone
you see in the flight office to clean out your checking account to buy block
time :-)

>
> All other helpful information appreciated, this is not a troll, I'm
> serious.

Glad to know you Serious, and best of luck with that intro flight.
Let me know how it went?
Dudley Henriques
CFI Retired

[RST Engineering]

>
> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.

I'm scared shiftless of standing on my roof, the top of the Empire State
building freaked me to no end, and elevators are NOT my friend. Having said
all this, I'm a flight instructor with several thousand hours and several
hundred students over the last 45 years. The phobias are NOT the same.



>
> Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
> commercial jet?

Yes, but since the descent and climb rates differ by a factor of ten or so,
the time for your ears to acclimatize is greatly increased. THe short
answer is yes, but not so much.



>
> Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
> victim to witness your trial?

Your call, but most "first flight" lessons are in a two-place aircraft.


>
> Do they have sick bags?

Sick sacks are a standard feature in all training aircraft.


>
> Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

Your odds of hurting yourself in a parachute are a hundred times more than
simply letting the aircraft return to earth of its own free will. The glide
ratio of a single engine trainer is about 8 to 1, so for every foot you are
up in the air you can glide 8 feet forward. Most initial training flights
are at about 3000 feet, so you have your choice of any landing spot within
about 5 miles of your present location.


>
> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
> it?

No more addictive than cocaine, meth, or sex {;-) I'd suggest a trip to
the library to check out a book by Richard Bach called "A Gift Of Wings";
the chapter "Letter From A God-Fearing Man" pretty well sums up the way most
of us in this newsgroup feel.



>
> All other helpful information appreciated, this is not a troll, I'm
> serious.

No problem. Nobody in here was born with wings.

Jim

[Brien K. Meehan]

I'll just reinforce a few points ...

> Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
> victim to witness your trial?

Whichever you're most comfortable with is best.

> Do they have sick bags?

ASK FOR ONE BEFORE YOU GO. Don't be shy about it. Any instructor or
FBO will be very happy to accomodate that request. It's a whole lot
better to have one and not need one than to need one and not have one.

> Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

Just like the airlines.

> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
> it?

If you open your eyes and like sex, you'll probably like flying that
much too.

[Jay Honeck]

> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.

Don't worry -- fear of heights is completely different from fear of
flying.

Example: Last Monday, our CAP squadron received a tour of our
hospital's "Flight for Life" helipad, which is on top of a 9-story
building.

I was fine for a few minutes, as we checked out the cool helicopter,
and were given a great tour of the facility. As time passed, however,
I started to realize that there were no sides or fences on the building
(naturally -- it's a helipad!), and I started to feel that weird sorta
dizzy feeling you get when you're afraid of heights.

By the end of the tour, I was fighting an almost overwhelming need to
get off that roof. It was a beautiful evening, the moon was rising, and
the buildings of downtown and the University of Iowa looked beautiful
as the lights twinkled on -- but none of that mattered. I *had* to get
off that roof.

It was stupid, I knew it was stupid, but that's the way it works. Yet
I've flown over that helipad hundreds of times while landing at our
airport, and did so again the very next day. My wife and I have flown
over 1500 hours in the last 10 years, all over the country.

In fact, I have read that MOST pilots are afraid of heights -- so don't
worry about that aspect of learning to fly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ice blonde]

Dear all,

Thank you so much for your replies :-)

I am glad I'm not the only one scared of looking down from high
buildings, ladders etc....

I'm sorry if my questions seem a bit wimpish, but being only just over
5'1" and having a total flying experience of a few commercial jet
flights, several unscheduled arial dismounts from speeding horses, and
most recently the flight of stairs at home, top to bottom, (that one
hurt!) I thought I could do with some advice.

Now am planning to have a flight in the South East of not so sunny
England, so the weather is bound to be unpredictable, do you think I
should be ok for an Autumn flight?

I am planning to open my eyes at some point, so I expect I will have a
great time.

Many thanks

[Michelle P]

See below

Ice blonde wrote:

>Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
>commercial jet?
>
>
Yes but only in a high performance airplane, not likely for a
introductory flight.

>Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
>victim to witness your trial?
>
>
Ask the instructor if it is ok with them. If you feel more comfortable
with an experienced observer then do it.

>Do they have sick bags?
>
>
bring your own. Do not use a clear ziplock bag.

>Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?
>
>
Only if you are doing aerobatics.

>And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
>it?
>
>
It is the most expensive and enjoyable habit I have. I finally am
getting paid to fly.

Michelle

[Jay Honeck]

> I'm sorry if my questions seem a bit wimpish, but being only just over
> 5'1" and having a total flying experience of a few commercial jet
> flights, several unscheduled arial dismounts from speeding horses, and
> most recently the flight of stairs at home, top to bottom, (that one
> hurt!) I thought I could do with some advice.

Hey, you're a full inch taller than my wife, Mary, who now has over 500
hours as pilot in command of a single engine aircraft!

You'll do fine. Just be careful -- flying is as addictive as heroin,
and just as spendy!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

Did you ever walk out on that glass floor at the CN tower in Toronto?
Over a thousand feet straight down to the ground!
On the way up there I read a sign telling me the 2.5 inch glass floor was
strong enough to hold 12 hippos.
Well let me tell you.....as I walked out on that floor and looked down, the
first thought that came to my head was,
"Oh Jesus...PLEASE tell me some damn idiot didn't sneak 13 Hippos up
here!!!"
:-))))
Dudley
"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
>> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
>> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.
>
> Don't worry -- fear of heights is completely different from fear of
> flying.
>
> Example: Last Monday, our CAP squadron received a tour of our
> hospital's "Flight for Life" helipad, which is on top of a 9-story
> building.
>
> I was fine for a few minutes, as we checked out the cool helicopter,
> and were given a great tour of the facility. As time passed, however,
> I started to realize that there were no sides or fences on the building
> (naturally -- it's a helipad!), and I started to feel that weird sorta
> dizzy feeling you get when you're afraid of heights.
>
> By the end of the tour, I was fighting an almost overwhelming need to
> get off that roof. It was a beautiful evening, the moon was rising, and
> the buildings of downtown and the University of Iowa looked beautiful
> as the lights twinkled on -- but none of that mattered. I *had* to get
> off that roof.
>
> It was stupid, I knew it was stupid, but that's the way it works. Yet
> I've flown over that helipad hundreds of times while landing at our
> airport, and did so again the very next day. My wife and I have flown
> over 1500 hours in the last 10 years, all over the country.
>
> In fact, I have read that MOST pilots are afraid of heights -- so don't
> worry about that aspect of learning to fly.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Ice blonde]

>Hey, you're a full inch taller than my wife, Mary, who now has over 500
>hours as pilot in command of a single engine aircraft!

Great, that means they won't be one laughing or two handing me a
cushion and or board to sit on so I can see out and reach the controls!
(This happened when I learnt to drive, my first attempts being in a
tractor!)

Very worrying about the addictive nature of this, have never tried
heroin or meth, but can safely say I already have one expensive habit,
described by some as 'standing in a cold shower tearing up =A320 notes!'
But I suspect horses are not quite as expensive as flying.

Are there any flight instructors from Australia, on this group? I am
hoping to take a few weeks there next spring, and if I like flying in
the UK, I will probably want to have a go there too.

Many thanks

[Sylvain]

Ice blonde wrote:
> Now am planning to have a flight in the South East of not so sunny
> England, so the weather is bound to be unpredictable, do you think I
> should be ok for an Autumn flight?

which airfield? I did learn to fly powered aircraft in
Clacton-on-Sea and the place is really neat, and the
weather not as bad as one may think! and lots of
aviation history in this area once you get hooked,
you might squeeze in a visit to nearby Duxford museum
between lessons :-)

--Sylvain

[Ice blonde]

Shoreham, right by Brighton, and just down the road from Gatwick :-)

Not sure whereabouts Clacton-on-sea is?

Thanks

[john smith]

> Great, that means they won't be one laughing or two handing me a
> cushion and or board to sit on so I can see out and reach the controls!
> (This happened when I learnt to drive, my first attempts being in a
> tractor!)

You probably are going to need a cushion.

[Ron Garret]

In article et>,
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote:

> Did you ever walk out on that glass floor at the CN tower in Toronto?

I had a similar experience at the big tower in Aukland, New Zealand,
which also has a glass floor. Not quite as high as the CN tower, but
still I was barely able to bring myself to stand on the glass floor. It
was a very interesting experience, since I have no problem at all being
up in a plane, and even doing aerobatics.

I wonder if a hot air balloon would have the same effect? Something
about zero airspeed and no engine noise at altitude that strikes fear
into the heart of a fixed-wing pilot?

rg

[Kev]

Ice blonde wrote:
> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
> it?

Oh, you'll have to open your eyes :) Listen, I was terrified going up
the first time. The plane seemed so small.

But right after take-off, it was smooth and beautiful. At that point,
the instructor is probably going to let you take the controls for a
while. Surprised? You'll be surprised how easy it can be.

On my first flight, the instructor landed us at another airport. Then
he had me takeoff, and do the landing back at our starting point. That
hooked me right there.

Enjoy!
Kev

[[email protected]]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Hi

Hi, and welcome to the group!

> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.

Let me tell you about myself in a few sentences. Prior to taking
flying lessons, I had only been in a small plane once, when I was
nine or ten. I also am very scared of heights, getting freaked out
on a 16th floor balcony, or even on a ferris wheel! :-( But I took
a "discovery flight", to see if I could handle being up in a small
plane, and it was no problem. When you're secured in your harness
(seatbelt), and enclosed in the cabin, you don't really get the
perception
of "height" at all. And it's really *cool*!

And I just finished my private pilot's license this month... <g>

So go for it, at least the first trial flight, and you'll probably be
hooked from there, just like I was (like we all were? <g>)

> Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to
> on a commercial jet?

Yes, altitude still affects your ears, since the cabin is
unpressurized.
But so far I haven't been higher than 4500 ft., and usually only
fly locally at 3000-3500 ft. Most of the time the effect is
unnoticable,
only if I lose a lot of altitude directly, rather than gradually.
Usually,
your ears are (it seems) half blocked, or muffled for a few minutes,
and then after a couple of yawns, you're good as new.

But again, slow descents, and gradual changes of altitude will tend
to avoid the problem.

> Do they have sick bags?

Yep. Our school has all their planes stocked with bags in the glove
compartment. I would assume this is standard. And don't get
discouraged about being airsick. I've read posts by pilots and
student pilots who still get airsick once in a while, but apparently
it's something you might be able to get over once you're used to
the sensations.

> Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

They can. I believe some American schools require parachutes
for spin training (which isn't even part of the PPL), but in Canada,
we never used them.

I really wouldn't worry. After about 20-30 simulated engine failures,
you'll discover that even without an engine, the plane turns into a
glider
and *wants* to try. More often than not, I'd be doing a simulated
engine
failure, go through my entire checklist, and then have to do a forward
slip to *lose* altitude because the plane wasn't coming down fast
enough!
<g> No, between simulated engine failures, and stall practice, you'll
learn that the plane *wants* to fly.

> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like it?

People who have no possible way to afford a plane often find a way
to buy a plane, after (or before) getting their license. <g>

Jeff Shirton
PP-ASEL (out of CZBA)

[Bob Gardner]

My first student was about your size...she now flies for United. Another
petite young lady I trained now flies for FedEx. Size doesn't matter.

Bob Gardner

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dear all,
>
> Thank you so much for your replies :-)
>
> I am glad I'm not the only one scared of looking down from high
> buildings, ladders etc....
>
> I'm sorry if my questions seem a bit wimpish, but being only just over
> 5'1" and having a total flying experience of a few commercial jet
> flights, several unscheduled arial dismounts from speeding horses, and
> most recently the flight of stairs at home, top to bottom, (that one
> hurt!) I thought I could do with some advice.
>
> Now am planning to have a flight in the South East of not so sunny
> England, so the weather is bound to be unpredictable, do you think I
> should be ok for an Autumn flight?
>
> I am planning to open my eyes at some point, so I expect I will have a
> great time.
>
> Many thanks
>

[john smith]

> I wonder if a hot air balloon would have the same effect? Something
> about zero airspeed and no engine noise at altitude that strikes fear
> into the heart of a fixed-wing pilot?

Hot air balloons are noisy. Think about having one or more very large
gas grill burners directly over your head at full blast!
Oh, and make sure you are not wearing any synthetic clothing.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Great, that means they won't be one laughing or two handing me a
>> cushion and or board to sit on so I can see out and reach the controls!
>
> You probably are going to need a cushion.

Absolutely. Mary has a cushion that she made (out of excess upholstery
material left over from our new interior -- hey, it had to match the plane,
right?) that has an elastic strap that holds it firmly in place.

Although it *is* possible to adjust the seat backs in our Piper so that she
doesn't need the cushion, it must be done semi-permanently with a wrench,
which makes the seat back so upright that I can't fly the plane.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I wonder if a hot air balloon would have the same effect? Something
> about zero airspeed and no engine noise at altitude that strikes fear
> into the heart of a fixed-wing pilot?

Actually, a pilot friend of mine just took his first hot air balloon ride
last week. With no history of fear of heights he experienced vertigo in a
bad way. And his wife had to sit down on the floor of the basket.

Their story was enough to remove THAT particular experience from "the list"
for me...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Did you ever walk out on that glass floor at the CN tower in Toronto?
> Over a thousand feet straight down to the ground!

There isn't enough money in the world to get me up there. Hell, when I
stood UNDER it, I felt dizzy, just thinking about being up there!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:epoZe.401223$xm3.64671@attbi_s21...
>> Did you ever walk out on that glass floor at the CN tower in Toronto?
>> Over a thousand feet straight down to the ground!
>
> There isn't enough money in the world to get me up there. Hell, when I
> stood UNDER it, I felt dizzy, just thinking about being up there!
:-)
Yeah, I know that feeling!!! I think it has something to do with common
sense. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Dudley

[Jay Honeck]

Hell, when I
>> stood UNDER it, I felt dizzy, just thinking about being up there!
> :-)
> Yeah, I know that feeling!!! I think it has something to do with common
> sense. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Nah. If it was common sense at work, I wouldn't be able to fly around it
all day long, taking pictures, without a second thought...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Ice blonde wrote:

> Can you help with a few questions I have, having never been up in a
> small aircraft and being scared of heights (well on tall buildings
> anyway) But I do WANT to do this, don't get me wrong.

You are unlikely to experience fear of heights while flying a plane. I have read
that this is because you don't have anything visually connecting you to the
ground, as you do when looking over the side of a building.

> Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
> commercial jet?

Perhaps a little. Light planes don't climb as rapidly as the jets, so the
pressure doesn't change as rapidly, so you probably won't have any problems. If
you have a cold or sinus problems at the time of the flight, you are more likely
to have problems in the air.

> Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
> victim to witness your trial?

Either is ok, but the person in the back seat should have a cast-iron stomach. A
first-timer (that's you) is likely to fly the aircraft less-than-smoothly, and
the back seat is behind the center of motion. It's an uncomfortable place to be
with a tyro at the controls. For best results, just go with the instructor.

> Do they have sick bags?

No, but most of the offices sell them in the pilot supplies case. Buy one if you
think you need to, but you are unlikely to make yourself sick.

> Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

No, but don't worry too much. It's unlikely that anything will go wrong, and the
instructor has been trained to handle emergencies.

> And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
> it?

It can be very addictive. One poster here (Jay Honeck) literally can't
understand how anyone wouldn't be willing to do nearly anything to be able to
keep flying. Other people go up once, say "that was nice", and never go again.
Most people are in the middle. You'll probably like it a great deal.

Have fun!

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[George Patterson]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> Did you ever walk out on that glass floor at the CN tower in Toronto?
> Over a thousand feet straight down to the ground!

They probably built it 'cause they heard that people like me would pay to avoid
it! :-)

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Cub Driver]

On 24 Sep 2005 14:29:22 -0700, "Ice blonde" >
wrote:

>Can you experience pressure problems in your ears similar to on a
>commercial jet?

Probably not because you don't climb fast enough in a small GA
aircraft. I've had my ears pop in a cargo plane at just a few hundred
feet of altitude, so it doesn't have much to do with absolute
altitude--it's the speed of the ascent. (In the case of jet planes,
I've rarely experienced ear popping.
>
>Is it best to go alone with just the instructor, or take a willing
>victim to witness your trial?

Just the instructor. You'll learn more and you won't be distracted.
>
>Do they have sick bags?

Probably not, but you can ask for one. I doubt you'll be sick.
>
>Do you get a parachute in case anything goes wrong?

No. You're safer in the airplane, which can glide to a landing.
Parachutes are very uncomfortable if worn tightly enough, and nobody
could know whether you'd be brave enough to actually jump.
>
>And how addictive is flying really, I mean if I open my eyes and like
>it?

Depends on you.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:36:11 -0700, Ron Garret >
wrote:

>I had a similar experience at the big tower in Aukland, New Zealand,
>which also has a glass floor. Not quite as high as the CN tower, but
>still I was barely able to bring myself to stand on the glass floor.

I once talked to a very experienced sailor who when she was first
married crewed for her husband on a fishing boat from Ecuador to the
Galapagos Islands and back. They towed an old wreck of a boat out with
them, to carry additional fish back. Every day somebody had to go back
in the dinghy to pump out the spare boat.

She was fine until they passed the continental shelf. Then she just
couldn't bear to get in the dinghy any more. The knowledge that there
was a MILE of water beneath her just freaked her out, even though she
knew perfectly well that she could drown in anything deeper than five
feet.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 02:59:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>Actually, a pilot friend of mine just took his first hot air balloon ride
>last week. With no history of fear of heights he experienced vertigo in a
>bad way. And his wife had to sit down on the floor of the basket.

I didn't feel that way at all in a balloon ride, and I'm terrified on
ferris wheels!

The one time I was scared flying was in a Huey helicopter in Vietnam.
The pilot thought it would be safer to fly below treetop level. Now
THERE is a sensation of speed and altitude, 50 feet above the ground,
100 knots, and tilted 15 degrees nose down!

(I don't have that sensation in an airplane, presumably because it's
not tilted--or if it is, it's for the sake of landing.)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Ice blonde]

Ok, my plan is forming now.

Take cushion if not provided.
Take hidden sick bag if not provided ( I have never been sick on a
large plane)
Don't take willing or unwilling victim.
Open eyes and enjoy.
Don't take credit card as limit is over 5k and I might end up spending
too much.

And never never take the family of hippos up the CN tower in Toronto!

No flight instructors based in Oz here then?

Actually I have a friend who used to work at the airfield previously, I
am going to meet up with and ask some more questions. But I've now been
told there is a 'choice' of flying schools there, so I will need to
shop around.

Now the question is, how do you spot a good flying instructor???

Many thanks

[.Blueskies.]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message oups.com...
> Ok, my plan is forming now.
>
> Take cushion if not provided.
> Take hidden sick bag if not provided ( I have never been sick on a
> large plane)
> Don't take willing or unwilling victim.
> Open eyes and enjoy.
> Don't take credit card as limit is over 5k and I might end up spending
> too much.
>
> And never never take the family of hippos up the CN tower in Toronto!
>
> No flight instructors based in Oz here then?
>
> Actually I have a friend who used to work at the airfield previously, I
> am going to meet up with and ask some more questions. But I've now been
> told there is a 'choice' of flying schools there, so I will need to
> shop around.
>
> Now the question is, how do you spot a good flying instructor???
>
> Many thanks
>

Nice summary....

I don't think you'll 'spot' a good flight instructor, but you will know it when you found them. Not a braggart, but not
too quiet, smooth on the controls and very descriptive, maybe talking quite a bit. Probably 'young' but in no hurry to
step up to the airlines. Maybe has more than ASEL ratings, glider maybe? They will make you sweat a little but be there
when you get in a bind, letting you know the details of what went wrong and then getting you back to it again, better
this time...

[Gene Seibel]

Wouldn't cross that one off yet. It's an awesome experience for most
people - drifting with the wind with no sensation of movement, hearing
people talking and dogs barking a housand feet below. Definitely worth
a try.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Balloon Ride - http://pad39a.com/gene/balloons.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

[N93332]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Actually I have a friend who used to work at the airfield previously, I
> am going to meet up with and ask some more questions. But I've now been
> told there is a 'choice' of flying schools there, so I will need to
> shop around.
>
> Now the question is, how do you spot a good flying instructor???

Ice,

Basically, you're the employer. Interview different instructors and find
one that works for you. Pick one that you like their teaching style and
that you think will be good to teach you. If you try an instructor and find
out it's not working well/right, find another instructor.

Most of us here have had multiple instructors during our training. An
instructor that works well for one person may not work for another. It's
all a personal choice.

-Greg B.

[Ice blonde]

Cheers,

I suspect unless you are definately going to continue flight training,
the quality of the instructor (provided he/she is qualified) isn't
going to be too much of an issue for one trial flight.

However, being one of the many dangerous sports in life, I think I will
feel better if I have a gut instinct that this person is capable of
keeping me alive.

For instance, there are horses I have met, that I would NEVER get on!

But going back to a possible instructor, if its a he, young, likes to
talk and is smooth with the controls that sounds good. You could just
add good looking, single and financially viable ;-) Sorry.... it will
probably be a she, and she will be excellent at flying!

Will post an update of how I got on once I've done it.

Many thanks

[Marty]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>Hey, you're a full inch taller than my wife, Mary, who now has over 500
>hours as pilot in command of a single engine aircraft!

Great, that means they won't be one laughing or two handing me a
cushion and or board to sit on so I can see out and reach the controls!
(This happened when I learnt to drive, my first attempts being in a
tractor!)

Very worrying about the addictive nature of this, have never tried
heroin or meth, but can safely say I already have one expensive habit,
described by some as 'standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes!'
But I suspect horses are not quite as expensive as flying.

Are there any flight instructors from Australia, on this group? I am
hoping to take a few weeks there next spring, and if I like flying in
the UK, I will probably want to have a go there too.

Many thanks

Ice,

Don't know about overseas, but if I had the cash from my wifes 28 yr horse
showing addiction. I'd have a new Archer with a virtually unlimited fuel &
maintenance budget ;-)
Really, the horses cost easily 4 times what I spent on aircraft ownership.

Marty

[Ice blonde]

Hi Marty!

>if I had the cash from my wifes 28 yr horse showing addiction. I'd have a new >Archer with a virtually unlimited fuel & maintenance budget ;-)

But that 'is' 28 yrs worth of horses :-) Please congratulate her on a
worth while addiction!

My horse is worth more than my saddle, my saddle is worth more than my
car.... but from a guess at your figures, she married the right man!
;-)

However my friend has just bought a horse at a similar cost that would
I am told, put someone though their private pilot licence! But she will
be able to compete at world class level on it.

How much does a new Archer cost?

Regards

[Marty]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi Marty!
>
>>if I had the cash from my wifes 28 yr horse showing addiction. I'd have a
>>new >Archer with a virtually unlimited fuel & maintenance budget ;-)
>
> But that 'is' 28 yrs worth of horses :-) Please congratulate her on a
> worth while addiction!
>
> My horse is worth more than my saddle, my saddle is worth more than my
> car.... but from a guess at your figures, she married the right man!
> ;-)
>
> However my friend has just bought a horse at a similar cost that would
> I am told, put someone though their private pilot licence! But she will
> be able to compete at world class level on it.
>
> How much does a new Archer cost?
>
> Regards
>

Our horse expenses were higher than most. Barn w/indoor arena & 16 12x10
stalls, 3 1-ton trucks over the years, 2 aluminum goose neck 7-horse
trailers. A number of T-Breds for English jumping & dressage, Appaloosas for
the Western stuff plus tack, feed etc.

She showed horses on the weekends, I went flying in my $12,000 Tri-Pacer
that ran on MoGas with an annual insurance cost < $500.
But I also have a Hot Rod/Corvette addiction, that can be pricier than
flying also ;-)

Haven't looked at a new Archer price recently, but I'd guess it would get up
to around >$200,000 equipped to my desires.

A freind of mine purchased his 1976Archer in 1980 for $12,000. It now has
new engine, paint, interior and an updated panel. Worth around $75,000 now.

Marty

[.Blueskies.]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message oups.com...
> Cheers,
>
....
> But going back to a possible instructor, if its a he, young, likes to
> talk and is smooth with the controls that sounds good. You could just
> add good looking, single and financially viable ;-) Sorry.... it will
> probably be a she, and she will be excellent at flying!
>
> Will post an update of how I got on once I've done it.
>
> Many thanks
>

Financially viable and flight instructor very rarely go together - an oxymoron of sorts...

[Ice blonde]

Where abouts are you from? Sounds a fantastic set-up :-)

I have more than a passing interest in fast cars too, but running one
over here might be more expensive than flying at the moment! :-(

Even with the conversion to sterling that some serious money on planes,
but I guess if its what you really want.

Regards

[Ice blonde]

Now why doesn't that surprise me ;-)

But your description was rather good, it just cried out to be commented
on.

However flying lessons arn't cheap either, if I could get that sort of
money teaching horse riding, I'd be an instructor PDQ.

Regards

[Sylvain]

Ice blonde wrote about trial flying lesson...

by the way, don't forget about telling us about
your experience when it is done!

--Sylvain

[Ice blonde]

>by the way, don't forget about telling us about
>your experience when it is done!

I won't, you can have the full unabridged version if you wish.

Although if I break anything vital, I might need to answer by proxy, so
I'll get one of the people responsible to post it for me. Although, I
don't know how fast they type so it might end up coming from me anyway
;-)

Now whats the deal with landing fees? Just found out some places you
have to pay for them in addition to your flight fee, and others its
free if your flying out of their airport????

Many thanks

[Jay Honeck]

> She was fine until they passed the continental shelf. Then she just
> couldn't bear to get in the dinghy any more. The knowledge that there
> was a MILE of water beneath her just freaked her out, even though she
> knew perfectly well that she could drown in anything deeper than five
> feet.

That's an interesting angle on the "fear of heights" phobia. In my case
(and, I suspect, most others) I have to be able to actually *see* the
heights to be afraid of them!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:36:11 -0700, Ron Garret >
> wrote:
>
>>I had a similar experience at the big tower in Aukland, New Zealand,
>>which also has a glass floor. Not quite as high as the CN tower, but
>>still I was barely able to bring myself to stand on the glass floor.
>
> I once talked to a very experienced sailor who when she was first
> married crewed for her husband on a fishing boat from Ecuador to the
> Galapagos Islands and back. They towed an old wreck of a boat out with
> them, to carry additional fish back. Every day somebody had to go back
> in the dinghy to pump out the spare boat.
>
>
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
> the blog: www.danford.net
> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jay Honeck]

> No flight instructors based in Oz here then?

Since most people can't possibly read everything that's written in this
forum, you might try starting a new thread with that question as the
subject?

Spotting a good flight instructor is not easy. Personally, I'd try to find
an older CFI. Young guys (and gals) are invariably trying to get their
first step up into the airlines, which means they are only teaching for the
sake of building the required hours. (Obviously there are exceptions to
this rule.)

The older guys are usually the retired teachers/military guys/cops/ etc. who
decided to teach flying because they love to fly.

Their attitude can make a world of difference.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ice blonde]

Thanks Jay

The instructors from Oz was just a random though, I will see how I go
with my trial flight first.

Some of my comments were typed a little tougue in cheek.

I suspect you are right, its better to learn from someone who loves
there job, than someone who is just making up the hours.

Many thanks

[Marty]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Where abouts are you from? Sounds a fantastic set-up :-)
>
> I have more than a passing interest in fast cars too, but running one
> over here might be more expensive than flying at the moment! :-(
>
> Even with the conversion to sterling that some serious money on planes,
> but I guess if its what you really want.
>
> Regards
>

During the Tri Pacer days we lived in rural Chicago, IL. 1999 we sold the
farm & stable and moved to Missouri. 7 of her favorite horses moved with us
and are enjoying their 40 acre Ozark retirement.
Right now I only rent planes, recent fuel prices along with rising ins.costs
since 9/11 have all but killed my intention to purchase another plane.

Marty

[George Patterson]

Marty wrote:

> Very worrying about the addictive nature of this, have never tried
> heroin or meth, .....

Well, since Jay compared it to heroin, I suppose he's tried that.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Very worrying about the addictive nature of this, have never tried
>> heroin or meth, .....
>
> Well, since Jay compared it to heroin, I suppose he's tried that.

Nope.

Although I have done many crazy things in my life -- willfully sticking
needles in my body ain't one of them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ice blonde]

Humour a geographically challenged Brit, where on earth is Ozark??

40 acres for 7 horses sound a good retirement anyway :-)

I know what you mean about fuel and insurance thou, its not just planes
its affecting. If you guys have to many more big Hurricanes over there,
I will need a new job just to cover my travel costs. As for riding
insurance, I best not get started ranting......

[George Patterson]

Ice blonde wrote:
> Humour a geographically challenged Brit, where on earth is Ozark??

The Ozarks are a mountain range in the middle of the U.S..

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Humour a geographically challenged Brit, where on earth is Ozark??
>
> The Ozarks are a mountain range in the middle of the U.S..

Well, calling them "mountains" may be a bit grand. More like pretty good
sized hills, compared to the Rockies or Alps.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Well, calling them "mountains" may be a bit grand. More like pretty good
> sized hills, compared to the Rockies or Alps.

True, but the questioner is in Britain. They would definitely be mountains
anywhere in the British Isles.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Marty]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:LLJZe.367691$_o.355264@attbi_s71...
>>> Humour a geographically challenged Brit, where on earth is Ozark??
>>
>> The Ozarks are a mountain range in the middle of the U.S..
>
> Well, calling them "mountains" may be a bit grand. More like pretty good
> sized hills, compared to the Rockies or Alps.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

That would be the Ozarks!
First time I flew over them I wondered how they earned the "mountain" term.
The curvy roads are fun in the Vette but ya gotta watch for the plentiful
deer and wild turkey, or the herd of beef that just crashed a fence ;-)
They've been known to wander onto runways here too, at nite it's best to
clear the runway with a low pass before landing 8-)

Marty

[Dan Luke]

"Ice blonde" wrote:

>
> Now whats the deal with landing fees? Just found out some places you
> have to pay for them in addition to your flight fee,

You definitely need to plan an extended flying holiday in the States.
Winter in Arizona or south Florida would do.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Ice blonde]

Hi George

I was born in Scotland and I beg to differ!!!!

Arkansas's highest mountain Mount Magazine is 2753-feet.

Reaching a height of almost 4500 feet, the highest mountain in Great
britain is Ben Nevis.

Regards

[Ice blonde]

> You definitely need to plan an extended flying holiday in the States.
> Winter in Arizona or south Florida would do.

That sounds good, regardless of if I was flying or not ;-)

Its just starting to get cold and wet over here!

Feeling like I need another holiday!!!

Regards

[Capt. Geoffry Thorpe]

"Ice blonde" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>Very worrying about the addictive nature of this, have never tried
>heroin or meth, but can safely say I already have one expensive habit,
>described by some as 'standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes!'
>But I suspect horses are not quite as expensive as flying.

Every hobby costs EXACTLY the same ammount - Just a bit more than you can
really afford.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>>Humour a geographically challenged Brit, where on earth is Ozark??
>>
>>The Ozarks are a mountain range in the middle of the U.S..
>
>
> Well, calling them "mountains" may be a bit grand. More like pretty good
> sized hills, compared to the Rockies or Alps.

When the Rockies grow up and are as old as our Appalachian mountains,
they'll be a little shorter and squater as well! :-)

Matt

[vincent p. norris]

>........ I already have one expensive habit.....

While in England last spring, I visited Old Sarum Flying Field, near
Salisbury. Had a good time talking with the natives, but the prices
they had to pay to fly were even higher than I had imagined. IIRC, a
Cessna 152 cost between 150 and 200 bucks, American, per hour.

Here in central Pennsylvania, it would cost about $60.

vince norris

[Dom]

Ice blonde wrote:
>>Hey, you're a full inch taller than my wife, Mary, who now has over 500
>>hours as pilot in command of a single engine aircraft!
>
>
> Great, that means they won't be one laughing or two handing me a
> cushion and or board to sit on so I can see out and reach the controls!
> (This happened when I learnt to drive, my first attempts being in a
> tractor!)
>
> Very worrying about the addictive nature of this, have never tried
> heroin or meth, but can safely say I already have one expensive habit,
> described by some as 'standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes!'
> But I suspect horses are not quite as expensive as flying.
>
> Are there any flight instructors from Australia, on this group? I am
> hoping to take a few weeks there next spring, and if I like flying in
> the UK, I will probably want to have a go there too.
>
> Many thanks
>

I'm not a flight instructor, but I am from Australia... from what little
I've heard about UK flying, Australia is cheaper - and of course done in
good weather!! Which part of Australia will you be in?

Dom

[Ice blonde]

Hi Dom

Well will be flying into Sydney first, then maybe up the coast towards
Brisbane, but there are other areas I would love to visit, its just
working out whats possible in one trip.

Many thanks

[Dom]

Ice blonde wrote:
> Hi Dom
>
> Well will be flying into Sydney first, then maybe up the coast towards
> Brisbane, but there are other areas I would love to visit, its just
> working out whats possible in one trip.
>
> Many thanks
>

I live between Sydney & Brisbane (Newcastle) - let us know if you want
any info on the area, or flying in Australia in general.
Most well-travelled Australians say the Kimberly is the best part of the
whole country - but it's a bit remote.
The newsgroup aus.aviation is another resource you could check out too.

Dom

[Ice blonde]

Hi Dom

Will do :-)

Thanks