Respriator Questions

[Jim Carriere]

Hello group,
Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
air system?

Thanks in advance.

[Dave S]

speculation: an organic vapor cartride should be adequate...

Comment based on professional experience: If you want to be assured of a
respirator doing its job, you need to be fit tested. If you ask really
nicely down at the local hospital's occupational health dept, or offer
to buy them lunch, you might be able to get them to do a saccharin fit
test for you. A HEPA filter is appropriate for the fit test session. If
you want a good fit you need a clean shaven face for the test and during
actual use (clean over the mask seal.. mustache is ok). For a non-IDLH
(non-deadly) atmosphere this should suffice. My background on this was
conducting testing for, and using equipment, in deadly atmospheres as
both a firefighter and an industrial safety vendor.

Dave

Jim Carriere wrote:
> Hello group,
> Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
> you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
> available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
> specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics, solvents,
> etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance. Do I need to
> fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced air system?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

[[email protected]]

Dave S wrote:
> speculation: an organic vapor cartride should be adequate...
>

This is one area where speculation can get you killed. Take the five
minuets or so it will require and call someone like Lab Safety and get
the correct answer and a proper recomendation for the exact chemicals
you are going to use and the anticipated accumulative exposure time. It
my require multiple cartridges for what you plan on doing. They can
also tell you the cart. life after opening.
Craig C.

[Morgans]

"Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
...
> Hello group,
> Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
> you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
> available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
> specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
> solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
> Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
> air system?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

You need not pay a ton for a forced air system. I made my own, from stuff I
had around the shop, for less than 20 bucks.

I used a respirator, and took off the cartridge on one side, and duct taped
a 1" PVC elbow onto it, and closed off the other cartridge with duct tape.

I went down to the big box hardware store, and got 50 feet of 1 1/4" bilge
hose (any light plastic pipe will do) and fastened it to a little squirrel
cage blower I rescued from the trash, long ago. A substitute would be a
large size muffin fan (like for computer cooling) enclosed in a small box so
you could couple the bilge hose on the high pressure side.

Other notes, on this. Don't use compressed air from a regular air
compressor. Make sure the air flow is adequate to keep flowing out of the
exhale valve, even when you are inhaling. With positive pressure, the
leaking duct tape will not be an issue.

I saw something along this line suggested on this group, some time ago. It
worked very well for me when I sprayed my son's car with urethane enamel. I
never smelled the least bit of the paint. I guess Rube would be proud! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Dave S]

See..that was the nice part about supplied air and self contained air
units... didnt have to mess with cartrides.. thats the part thats NOT in
my knowledge bank.. fit testing and mask seals, however.. are..

Thanks for the further info.

Dave

wrote:
> Dave S wrote:
>
>>speculation: an organic vapor cartride should be adequate...
>>
>
>
> This is one area where speculation can get you killed. Take the five
> minuets or so it will require and call someone like Lab Safety and get
> the correct answer and a proper recomendation for the exact chemicals
> you are going to use and the anticipated accumulative exposure time. It
> my require multiple cartridges for what you plan on doing. They can
> also tell you the cart. life after opening.
> Craig C.
>
>

[Jean-Paul Roy]

Jim, you are a king. Thanks for posting this kind of inexpensive solution.
I did a complete recovering job on my Challenger last year and really wished
I could have had this system. Even with an ordinary respirator, it's a pain.

Thanks a thousands

Jean-Paul
Qc. Canada
"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello group,
> > Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
> > you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
> > available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
> > specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
> > solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
> > Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
> > air system?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> You need not pay a ton for a forced air system. I made my own, from stuff
I
> had around the shop, for less than 20 bucks.
>
> I used a respirator, and took off the cartridge on one side, and duct
taped
> a 1" PVC elbow onto it, and closed off the other cartridge with duct tape.
>
> I went down to the big box hardware store, and got 50 feet of 1 1/4" bilge
> hose (any light plastic pipe will do) and fastened it to a little squirrel
> cage blower I rescued from the trash, long ago. A substitute would be a
> large size muffin fan (like for computer cooling) enclosed in a small box
so
> you could couple the bilge hose on the high pressure side.
>
> Other notes, on this. Don't use compressed air from a regular air
> compressor. Make sure the air flow is adequate to keep flowing out of the
> exhale valve, even when you are inhaling. With positive pressure, the
> leaking duct tape will not be an issue.
>
> I saw something along this line suggested on this group, some time ago.
It
> worked very well for me when I sprayed my son's car with urethane enamel.
I
> never smelled the least bit of the paint. I guess Rube would be proud!
<g>
> --
> Jim in NC
>
>
>

[Bruce A. Frank]

Jim,

The suggestion of how to fabricate an inexpensive fresh air mask is a
good one, but don't be afraid of single or twin cartridge respirator
masks. An automotive paint store will have the organic type filters and
well fitting masks that will work perfectly for these paint solvents. A
whiff of MEK or acetone or any other paint thinner is not going to
destroy your liver. If your mask shifts so that it is not sealing
properly you will smell the solvent and correct the problem.

The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint on
all the parts. I improved my home made system by using small tube from my
compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my belt.
The valve let me regulate the pressure and flow to the modified mask and
only a small tube followed me around the fuselage as I painted. The only
time I use the fresh air mask is when shooting two part urethane because
it contains isocyanates. Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.

Jim Carriere wrote:

> Hello group,
> Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
> you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
> available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
> specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
> solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
> Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
> air system?
>
> Thanks in advance.

Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"

| Publishing interesting material
| on all aspects of alternative
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.

[[email protected]]

Bruce A. Frank wrote:

> ...
>
> The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
> with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint
on
> all the parts. I improved my home made system by using small tube
from my
> compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my
belt.

Uh, how do you get 90 psi? Common air compressers contaminate the air
with oil and are unsafe for breathing.

Do you have something like the compressors used to fill scuba tanks?

> ... Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
> filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.
>

Activated carbon filters don't stop anything 100% But they
typically stop organics quite well up until 'breakthrough' as
it is called, occurs. Thereafter the concentration coming
through rapidly rises until it is the same as in the incomming
air. Long befor then you should begin to smell the contaminant,
depending on what it is. One peculularity of activated carbon
filters is that once breakthrough has occurred the filter
will begin to contaminate clean air that passes through it.

Also keep in mind that if you do not have an external air supply
you must have adequate oxygen in the ambient air. Many fatalities
have occurred when someone used a filter-type respirator in a
confined area where the contaminants have displaced the oxygen
in the air--for example underground gasoline tanks or coal bins
using a nitrogen fire suppression system.

That is probably NOT a consideration for spraypainting unless
you're spraying in a closed room.

--

FF

[Roger]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:21:57 -0600, Jim Carriere
> wrote:

>Hello group,
>Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
>you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
>available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
>specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
>solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
>Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
>air system?
>

When I put 3 coats of 2-part epoxy paint on the floor of my shop I
didn't have the equipment I have now.

Sooo... I took a standard face shield, one large garbage bag, two
lengths of the cheap 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 bilge (sump pump hose) and a
squirrel cage fan I had on hand.

I put the face shield inside the garbage bag, taped it to the inside
of the bag, cut out the bag for the face plate,

I taped the corrugated hose in position on my back with one piece of
duct tape around my waist and another just under my arms. This left
the hose open at the back of my neck and blowing up and over the top.

The fumes were so strong you would have needed a full face mast any
way.

Using this set up I was able to give the floor three coats of epoxy.
It did take several garbage bags as they are not the most sturdy
things in the world, but I did have fresh, clean, COLD air.

Total cost was less than $10 as I had the face shield on hand.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>Thanks in advance.

[Morgans]

"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message > Jim,
>
> The suggestion of how to fabricate an inexpensive fresh air mask is a
> good one, but don't be afraid of single or twin cartridge respirator
> masks.

I'm not afraid of resirators, and only use fresh air systems when using the
nasty stuff, like the two part urethanes.

> The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
> with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint on
> all the parts.

I solved this problem by attatching the hose to my belt, mostly around my
backside. It wasn't much in the way, like that.

> I improved my home made system by using small tube from my
> compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my belt.

From what I have read, that is a very risky thing to do. The air from a
standard air compressor has oil vapors, and things in it that you should NOT
be breathing.

At very least, I would send the air compressor air through a organic
cartridge, before breathing it.


> Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
> filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.

Yep.

Good to see you back in the funny papers. How is your project going?
--
Jim in NC

[Bruce A. Frank]

My compressor has an in-line filter system that removes any oil
vapor...which is the only possible contaminate. The line filter is very
similar to the filter in the respirator and I did forget to add that the
air going into my modified mask is going through the organic filter on the
mask.

The levels of solvents that may get through the proper fitting paint
respirator before you begin to smell it is inconsequential with virtually
no impact on your body. BTW, I have never had a flow of solvent smell
through the mask because I change the canisters before each paint session.

You are aware that that whiff of gasoline vapor you get when fueling your
car has more harmful impact that several hours of paint with a properly
serviced and well fitted paint respirator. But then again, back in the day
when the automotive manufacturers still had humans painting the cars, even
though they used fresh air masks, painters had the shortest life span of
all industrial workers. Maybe we should pass a law forbidding anyone except
a professional from painting his project. That's the ticket! After all we
know the average Joe Six-pack doesn't have enough sense to spend his tax
return properly, how in the world can he be expected to educated himself
well enough to use safety equipment properly?

wrote:

> Bruce A. Frank wrote:
>
> > ...
> >
> > The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
> > with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint
> on
> > all the parts. I improved my home made system by using small tube
> from my
> > compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my
> belt.
>
> Uh, how do you get 90 psi? Common air compressers contaminate the air
> with oil and are unsafe for breathing.
>
> Do you have something like the compressors used to fill scuba tanks?
>
> > ... Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
> > filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.
> >
>
> Activated carbon filters don't stop anything 100% But they
> typically stop organics quite well up until 'breakthrough' as
> it is called, occurs. Thereafter the concentration coming
> through rapidly rises until it is the same as in the incomming
> air. Long befor then you should begin to smell the contaminant,
> depending on what it is. One peculularity of activated carbon
> filters is that once breakthrough has occurred the filter
> will begin to contaminate clean air that passes through it.
>
> Also keep in mind that if you do not have an external air supply
> you must have adequate oxygen in the ambient air. Many fatalities
> have occurred when someone used a filter-type respirator in a
> confined area where the contaminants have displaced the oxygen
> in the air--for example underground gasoline tanks or coal bins
> using a nitrogen fire suppression system.
>
> That is probably NOT a consideration for spraypainting unless
> you're spraying in a closed room.
>
> --
>
> FF

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
..

[Bruce A. Frank]

Very innovative! Showing way too much common sense!

Roger wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:21:57 -0600, Jim Carriere
> > wrote:
>
> >Hello group,
> >Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
> >you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
> >available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
> >specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
> >solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
> >Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
> >air system?
> >
>
> When I put 3 coats of 2-part epoxy paint on the floor of my shop I
> didn't have the equipment I have now.
>
> Sooo... I took a standard face shield, one large garbage bag, two
> lengths of the cheap 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 bilge (sump pump hose) and a
> squirrel cage fan I had on hand.
>
> I put the face shield inside the garbage bag, taped it to the inside
> of the bag, cut out the bag for the face plate,
>
> I taped the corrugated hose in position on my back with one piece of
> duct tape around my waist and another just under my arms. This left
> the hose open at the back of my neck and blowing up and over the top.
>
> The fumes were so strong you would have needed a full face mast any
> way.
>
> Using this set up I was able to give the floor three coats of epoxy.
> It did take several garbage bags as they are not the most sturdy
> things in the world, but I did have fresh, clean, COLD air.
>
> Total cost was less than $10 as I had the face shield on hand.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
> >Thanks in advance.

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

[Bruce A. Frank]

Morgans wrote:

> Good to see you back in the funny papers. How is your project going?
> --
> Jim in NC

Well, I have quit my day job to concentrate on building fuel tanks for
homebuilts. Since I am way behind on tanks, about 8 weeks right now, progress on
my project is slow. Lot of happy customers though! And I really am enjoying
doing this!! Still trying to get the next issue of the newsletter out.


--
Bruce A. Frank
======================
Aircraft Projects
Fuel Tank Fabrication
TIG, MIG & Oxy/Acet Welding & Brazing

[Morgans]

"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote

> Well, I have quit my day job to concentrate on building fuel tanks for
> homebuilts. Since I am way behind on tanks, about 8 weeks right now,
progress on
> my project is slow. Lot of happy customers though! And I really am
enjoying
> doing this!! Still trying to get the next issue of the newsletter out.
>
>
> --
> Bruce A. Frank

Fantastic job change! I was going to say that I didn't know you were doing
that, and ought to spam us a little, but then...* weeks behind, I guess you
don't need to get 10 weeks behind!
--
Jim in NC

[Roger]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:45:24 GMT, "Bruce A. Frank"
> wrote:

>My compressor has an in-line filter system that removes any oil
>vapor...which is the only possible contaminate. The line filter is very

There's one more. CO. for those who do not incorporate an activated
charcoal filter into their system. Carbon monoxide is developed in
oil type compressors although usually at very small quantities. Some
where around here I have some literature that warms about it as well
as the oil fumes.

>similar to the filter in the respirator and I did forget to add that the
>air going into my modified mask is going through the organic filter on the
>mask.
>

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[James Lloyd]

Well Jim what I did was to buy a surplus gas mask from Sportsman guide
and then went to a junkyard and got a used heater blower from a car and
then hooked it up with a hose.Put the blower in clean air outside the
work area and attach to a car battery and it will feed clean air into
the mask.I have been doing this for years.Jim in Ct.

[Roger]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:47:23 GMT, "Bruce A. Frank"
> wrote:

>Very innovative! Showing way too much common sense!


Thanks.

I'll have to put up a link to a photo of the shop floor *before* it
was covered with "stuff" and scuffed and had heavy, hard stuff with
sharp corners dropped in places. <G>

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>Roger wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:21:57 -0600, Jim Carriere
>> > wrote:
>>