check brake pressure in pre-landing checklist?

[Ray]

I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from
the library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.

The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you
should always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal
resistance) as part of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included
in the POH checklist for any of the planes I fly and none of the
instructors I have flown with have every suggested this. But it sounds
like a good idea to me. Does anyone here have a brake check in their
pre-landing checklist?

- Ray

[Greg Farris]

Interesting suggestion.
It happens I just flew a C-172 the other day that had a "soft" right
brake. When I started to taxi I noticed it, and by pumping it a few times
I regained normal pressure. I tested the brakes several times, and
deciding they were OK, I launched. Before landing, I tested the brakes,a
nd the right one had gone comùpletely soft again. I pumped them a few
times, and all was back to normal. Had I not done this, I may have had a
control issue on landing.

G Faris

[Doug Carter]

On 2005-10-02, Ray > wrote:
> ... The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you
> should always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal
> resistance) as part of the pre-landing checklist.

I do it now. About a month ago, brakes were fine on taxi out, three
hours later at touchdown and trying too hard to make the first turnoff
(an MD80 was hard on my heels) the right brake was zilch. In my
excitement I put a flat spot on the left tire before figuring out what
what was going on and letting it roll (11k ft. runway :)

Pumping it got about half the peddle back; would have been nicer to have
done that in the air!

--
Doug Carter
C82RG, PTS2

[Flyingmonk]

You "put a flat spot on the left tire"? Surprised you didn't ground
loop...

[Ken Reed]

> The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you
> should always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal
> resistance) as part of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included
> in the POH checklist for any of the planes I fly and none of the
> instructors I have flown with have every suggested this. But it sounds
> like a good idea to me. Does anyone here have a brake check in their
> pre-landing checklist?

It is on the Cirrus pre-landing check list.

KR

[Blanche]

A brake check is definitely in the checklist for Pipers, immediately
after "start engine". Get rolling a bit, check hand brake and if
installed, check tow brakes.

[LWG]

I was taught to check brakes as soon as I was slowly rolling forward.


"Ray" > wrote in message
...
> I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from the
> library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.
>
> The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you should
> always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal resistance) as part
> of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included in the POH checklist
> for any of the planes I fly and none of the instructors I have flown with
> have every suggested this. But it sounds like a good idea to me. Does
> anyone here have a brake check in their pre-landing checklist?
>
> - Ray

[Ray]

> I was taught to check brakes as soon as I was slowly rolling forward.
>

I think most people do a brake check as soon as they start the taxi. My
question was how many people do another brake check as part of their
pre-landing checklist. In my limited experience this is far less
common, but it seems like a good idea that doesn't add any siginificant
time or effort to the pre-landing check.

- Ray

[Doug Carter]

On 2005-10-02, Flyingmonk > wrote:
> You "put a flat spot on the left tire"? Surprised you didn't ground
> loop...

Yeah, I suspect that when I applied the brakes and the nose came left I
automatically put in full right rudder and didn't get far enough off of
the right brake.

The Skylane RG has smaller tires than the welded gear version, slides
easier to begin with and doesn't take long to mark up the tires.

I mostly fly a Pitts so ground looping something as docile as a Skylane
wasn't too likely (famous last words! :)

--
Doug Carter
C82R, PTS2

[Marc CYBW]

Testing the brakes is on my own 172 pre-landing check list and has been on
all the rental 172s I've flown with 3 different operators.

Marc


"Ray" > wrote in message
...
> I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from the
> library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.
>
> The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you should
> always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal resistance) as part
> of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included in the POH checklist
> for any of the planes I fly and none of the instructors I have flown with
> have every suggested this. But it sounds like a good idea to me. Does
> anyone here have a brake check in their pre-landing checklist?
>
> - Ray

[Dave]

Absolutely!

Dave



On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:49:21 -0700, Ray > wrote:

>I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from
>the library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.
>
>The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you
>should always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal
>resistance) as part of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included
>in the POH checklist for any of the planes I fly and none of the
>instructors I have flown with have every suggested this. But it sounds
>like a good idea to me. Does anyone here have a brake check in their
>pre-landing checklist?
>
>- Ray

[Icebound]

"Ray" > wrote in message
...
> I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from the
> library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.
>
> The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you should
> always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal resistance) as part
> of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included in the POH checklist
> for any of the planes I fly and none of the instructors I have flown with
> have every suggested this. But it sounds like a good idea to me. Does
> anyone here have a brake check in their pre-landing checklist?
>

Definitely on the pre-land checklist for 150s and 172 at my school. It is
even on the HASEL check before stalls, although the reason for that is a
little hazy.

[Michael 182]

"Doug Carter" > wrote in message
ire.net...
> On 2005-10-02, Flyingmonk > wrote:


> I mostly fly a Pitts so ground looping something as docile as a Skylane
> wasn't too likely (famous last words! :)

Having flown a TR-182 through a few thousand landings, a few of them bad
enough to raise comments on CTAF or tower frequencies, I'd have to say I
agree - 182's are unbelievably forgiving...

Michael

[Newps]

I have had two brake failures in my 182. I was flying the backcountry
in Idaho once when I lost my left brake, being at a dirt strip without a
way to fix it. So we took off and flew to Cascade where there was a
mechanic. It's not that big a deal.



Ray wrote:

>> I was taught to check brakes as soon as I was slowly rolling forward.
>>
>
> I think most people do a brake check as soon as they start the taxi. My
> question was how many people do another brake check as part of their
> pre-landing checklist. In my limited experience this is far less
> common, but it seems like a good idea that doesn't add any siginificant
> time or effort to the pre-landing check.
>
> - Ray

[Steve Foley]

Although it is necessary to start the engine prior to landing, I believe the
OP was looking for a brake check sometime after take-off and before landing
<g>

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> A brake check is definitely in the checklist for Pipers, immediately
> after "start engine". Get rolling a bit, check hand brake and if
> installed, check tow brakes.
>

[William Snow]

Brake check each and every time here!

By the way, Just had a wonderful weekend of flying a new to us, PA28-140
(1973 vintage) from Amery WI, to MIC, to ARR, to FDY, YNG, POU, PVD and to
the final leg PYM. Average Burn 8.2 gph, 12.1 hrs of flying.

Bill Snow PE, CP, IA, ASEL

[Montblack]

("William Snow" wrote)
> By the way, Just had a wonderful weekend of flying a new to us, PA28-140
> (1973 vintage) from Amery WI, to MIC, to ARR, to FDY, YNG, POU, PVD and to
> the final leg PYM. Average Burn 8.2 gph, 12.1 hrs of flying.


First: Looks like a GREAT trip!!
Second: Give us something to work with...anything. Amery WI was a good
start. <g>

Thanks :-)

Great Circle Mapper (Use the K in the airport codes)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R45C249EB
(same link as below ...wait for it)

www.airnav.com

Crystal Airport (MIC)
Minneapolis, Minnesota

Aurora Municipal Airport (ARR)
Chicago/Aurora, Illinois

Findlay Airport (FDY)
Findlay, Ohio

Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport (YNG)
Youngstown/Warren, Ohio

Dutchess County Airport (POU)
Poughkeepsie, New York

Theodore Francis Green State Airport (PVD)
Providence, Rhode Island

Plymouth Municipal Airport (PYM)
Plymouth, Massachusetts

(Great Circle Mapper - link from above)
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=KAHH-KMIC-KARR-KFDY-KYNG-KPOU-KPVD-KPYM&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&SPEED-GROUND=108.8&SPEED-UNITS=mph&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=


Montblack

[William Snow]

I apologize for my wayward ways...you know pilots ;-)

[[email protected]]

>>>how many people do another brake check as part of their pre-landing checklist. <<<

A charter pilot friend beat into my head (you'd be amazed how effective
that approach in instruction is..) to check for 3 green after gear
extension and pressure on the brakes. I do it every time when I fly the
Lance or Aztec. A brake failure is not a big deal at most of the
airports I fly into, but I don't ever want to be surprised by something
like that.

[Ron Natalie]

Newps wrote:
> I have had two brake failures in my 182. I was flying the backcountry
> in Idaho once when I lost my left brake, being at a dirt strip without a
> way to fix it. So we took off and flew to Cascade where there was a
> mechanic. It's not that big a deal.

My biggest concern about doing brake checks in the air, is that I've had
more times where cessna brakes have failed to RELEASE than I've had
them fail to engage. I'd rather land with them failed than land
with them locked.

Now you have to ask your self: how likely is the brakes likely to
have failed after the pretaxi brake check, how likely is pumping
them in the air likely to make things WORSE, and how useful is
the information that they aren't working on landing?

[Dave Stadt]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Newps wrote:
> > I have had two brake failures in my 182. I was flying the backcountry
> > in Idaho once when I lost my left brake, being at a dirt strip without a
> > way to fix it. So we took off and flew to Cascade where there was a
> > mechanic. It's not that big a deal.
>
> My biggest concern about doing brake checks in the air, is that I've had
> more times where cessna brakes have failed to RELEASE than I've had
> them fail to engage. I'd rather land with them failed than land
> with them locked.
>
> Now you have to ask your self: how likely is the brakes likely to
> have failed after the pretaxi brake check, how likely is pumping
> them in the air likely to make things WORSE, and how useful is
> the information that they aren't working on landing?

Also true in winter if there is any chance water or slush might have
splashed up on the brakes. The water and slush can freeze at altitude and
the ice can lock the brakes if they are applied at altitude.

[Roger]

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:49:21 -0700, Ray > wrote:

>I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from
>the library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.
>
>The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you
>should always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal
>resistance) as part of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included
>in the POH checklist for any of the planes I fly and none of the
>instructors I have flown with have every suggested this. But it sounds
>like a good idea to me. Does anyone here have a brake check in their
>pre-landing checklist?

Even on a retract and a 3000 foot strip I don't need brakes to land.

OTOH I have had the parking brake freeze and had to land (arrive) hard
enough to get them turning.

Do I check them? Yes, then I put my feet down where I'm not likely to
accidentally touch them accidentally.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>- Ray

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:47:59 -0400, Roger
> wrote:


>Even on a retract and a 3000 foot strip I don't need brakes to land.

Glad somebody wrote what I was thinking. Took primary lessons in a
conventional gear plane with mucked-up mechanical brakes-any
questions?

>OTOH I have had the parking brake freeze and had to land (arrive) hard
>enough to get them turning.

BTDT, have had to dolly a couple onto the ramp where the arrival
wasn't sufficient "to get them turning".

>Do I check them? Yes, then I put my feet down where I'm not likely to
>accidentally touch them accidentally.

Have always checked 'em on roll-out prior to getting near somewhere
(like a turn-off or a ramp) where I might get stupid and need them.

TC

[Morgans]

> wrote

> BTDT, have had to dolly a couple onto the ramp where the arrival
> wasn't sufficient "to get them turning".

Umm, brings a new meaning to "flat spotted" doesn't it?
--
Jim in NC

[Franklin Newton]

I always checked the brakes on short final, saw my boss run off the runway
with an arc burn through one brake line, he didn't check the brakes.

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:49:21 -0700, Ray > wrote:
>
> >I'm reading a book about general aviation safety that I picked up from
> >the library: "Flight Safety in General Aviation" by R.D. Campbell, 1987.
> >
> >The book suggests that for planes with hydraulic brake systems you
> >should always check the brake pressure (by checking the pedal
> >resistance) as part of the pre-landing checklist. This is not included
> >in the POH checklist for any of the planes I fly and none of the
> >instructors I have flown with have every suggested this. But it sounds
> >like a good idea to me. Does anyone here have a brake check in their
> >pre-landing checklist?
>
> Even on a retract and a 3000 foot strip I don't need brakes to land.
>
> OTOH I have had the parking brake freeze and had to land (arrive) hard
> enough to get them turning.
>
> Do I check them? Yes, then I put my feet down where I'm not likely to
> accidentally touch them accidentally.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> >
> >- Ray