Rocket Racing League

[John Ousterhout]

When I saw this I thought it was the craziest thing I've seen since the
Moller Skycar: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9572408/


When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html

- John Ousterhout -

[wright1902glider]

ZOOMing to an airshow near you?

Lemme know before the race starts so I can hangar my ship 3 states
away.

Harry

[Bret Ludwig]

wright1902glider wrote:
> ZOOMing to an airshow near you?
>
> Lemme know before the race starts so I can hangar my ship 3 states
> away.



They're nvts. N-V-T-S!

Mel Brooks.

[Frank Stutzman]

John Ousterhout > wrote:

> When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
> http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html

Did you recognize any particularly "zoomie" names on the "Advisory
Board?"
--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[John Ammeter]

Sure did...

Jim Campbell
Advisor, Aviation
Jim Campbell, CEO of the Aero-News Network, is a 17,000 hour commercial
pilot and flight instructor, a graduate of the National Test Pilot
School and one of the most active aviation writers and test pilots in
the business. The author of 17 books and an active member of the X Prize
and Zero-G programs, Campbell has flown or evaluated over 1100 unique
flying machines since his first flight some 35 years ago (at age 13).


Somehow, I doubt the veracity of the above credentials... Can't really
say why but how did Jimbo find the time to fly 17,000 hours, write 17
books and fly 1100 different airplanes?? For someone that isn't a
commercial pilot, actually flying a route, to log that number of hours
is doubtful to say the least...

But, I'm sure some people might believe him.....

But, NOT ME... I've met him and heard his grandiose storys...

John


Frank Stutzman wrote:
> John Ousterhout > wrote:
>
>
>>When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
>>http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html
>
>
> Did you recognize any particularly "zoomie" names on the "Advisory
> Board?"

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <MMk0f.439520$xm3.345436@attbi_s21>,
John Ousterhout > wrote:

> When I saw this I thought it was the craziest thing I've seen since the
> Moller Skycar: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9572408/
>
>
> When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
> http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html
>
> - John Ousterhout -


Interesting -- Since rocket motors consume propellant at prodigious
rates, the actual powered-flight portion of such a race would be quite
short -- on the order of a couple of minutes max.

I think that the whole thing would prove to be pretty much a non-event.

[Jim Carriere]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

> In article <MMk0f.439520$xm3.345436@attbi_s21>,
> John Ousterhout > wrote:
>
>
>>When I saw this I thought it was the craziest thing I've seen since the
>>Moller Skycar: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9572408/
>>
>>
>>When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
>>http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html
>>
>>- John Ousterhout -
>
>
>
> Interesting -- Since rocket motors consume propellant at prodigious
> rates, the actual powered-flight portion of such a race would be quite
> short -- on the order of a couple of minutes max.
>
> I think that the whole thing would prove to be pretty much a non-event.

Or it might appeal to people with that attention span. Hey, drag
races are 5-10 seconds long, there's lotsa money in that... maybe a
bad example, half the entertainment is when somebody's engine blows
up... sorry I brought it up. :)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the appeal to this will be getting
drunk and losing your hearing. :) :)

[[email protected]]

John;

I was told once that you can tell the quality of a person by the
quality of those he associates with. I am now very suspect of Dr.
Diamandis.

Once zzzoom said that he was a flightcrew member on the zero G
flights. I'm wondering what his position was? According to Part 1 of
the FAR's flight crew is defined pilot, flight engineer or flight
navigator. I think he was more on the line of what Nauga once said self
loading ballast.

Frank M.Hitlaw
Jakarta,Indonesia

[Anthony W]

John Ammeter wrote:
> Sure did...
>
> Jim Campbell
> Advisor, Aviation
> Jim Campbell, CEO of the Aero-News Network, is a 17,000 hour commercial
> pilot and flight instructor, a graduate of the National Test Pilot
> School and one of the most active aviation writers and test pilots in
> the business. The author of 17 books and an active member of the X Prize
> and Zero-G programs, Campbell has flown or evaluated over 1100 unique
> flying machines since his first flight some 35 years ago (at age 13).
>
>
> Somehow, I doubt the veracity of the above credentials... Can't really
> say why but how did Jimbo find the time to fly 17,000 hours, write 17
> books and fly 1100 different airplanes?? For someone that isn't a
> commercial pilot, actually flying a route, to log that number of hours
> is doubtful to say the least...
>
> But, I'm sure some people might believe him.....
>
> But, NOT ME... I've met him and heard his grandiose storys...
>
> John
>
>
> Frank Stutzman wrote:
>
>> John Ousterhout > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
>>> http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Did you recognize any particularly "zoomie" names on the "Advisory
>> Board?"

Those 17 books should be an easy put up or shut up for him. Any chance
one of them was published?

Tony

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article <MMk0f.439520$xm3.345436@attbi_s21>, John Ousterhout says...
>
>When I saw this I thought it was the craziest thing I've seen since the
>Moller Skycar: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9572408/
>
>
>When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
>http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html
>
>- John Ousterhout -

You'll notice that zoom put his name first on the list when he published the
story and names on ANN LOL!! We're getting closer and closer to the the script
of "the Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom in Outer Space" . Can't wait till zoom
"test" flys one and loops,rolls and spins while pulling 10 g's LOL!!!
Maybe jaun will enter his Maybe 5 and ....naaaahh that would mean he'd have to
fly it and we all know that won't happen.

Chuck S

"credibility it was always about credibility"

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article <I_p0f.300$wR4.235@trnddc03>, Anthony W says...

>>
>> Frank Stutzman wrote:
>>
>>> John Ousterhout > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> When I saw THIS it confirmed my opinion:
>>>> http://www.rocketracingleague.com/company_leadership-team.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you recognize any particularly "zoomie" names on the "Advisory
>>> Board?"
>
>Those 17 books should be an easy put up or shut up for him. Any chance
>one of them was published?
>
>Tony

I know of only 2 books, one was about Ultralights and the other was about
saving Bob Hoover. I'd like to see the list. He must be in a cycle again and
thinks he has new people to fool. What a phony.Frankly I don't think much of an
organization that didn't look into the background of it's Advisory Board
members. Maybe they need a phone call.

See ya

Chuck S

"zoom can fool all of the people some of the time,some of the people none of the
time,and jaun all of the time." chuck s

[John Ousterhout]

Anthony W wrote:
>
> Those 17 books should be an easy put up or shut up for him. Any chance
> one of them was published?
>
> Tony

I have a copy of this one (but I never asked Zoom for an autograph).

"Flyers Guide to Ultralights", by Jim Campbell
TAB Books Inc, 1985, ISBN 0-8306-2376-0

Of interest to many is this excerpt from the book:

<BEGIN QUOTE>

There are few people in the ultralight community who can claim to have
done as much for ultralight aviation as has Chuck Slusarczyk. Starting
back in the early days of the hang-gliding movement, Chuck has grown and
developed along with the entire movement. He was one of the first to
adapt and market power systems for hang gliders and helped to usher in a
far more progressive era for this sport by designing and marketing the
first of the "looks like a real airplane" style ultralight air vehicles.
Even more surprising is the fact that he has done this without having
to alienate the rest of an overly competitive industry. His sense of
humor, fairness, and propriety have made him one of this sports more
endearing participants.

<END QUOTE>


- John Ousterhout -
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

[Rick Beebe]

>>Those 17 books should be an easy put up or shut up for him. Any chance
>>one of them was published?
>>
>>Tony
>
> I know of only 2 books, one was about Ultralights and the other was about
> saving Bob Hoover. I'd like to see the list. He must be in a cycle again and
> thinks he has new people to fool. What a phony.Frankly I don't think much of an
> organization that didn't look into the background of it's Advisory Board
> members. Maybe they need a phone call.

Amazon lists 46 books by people named Jim Campbell and 13 by James R.
Campbell. My favorite: "Consumer Fraud and You"

Some more legit possibilities: Flyer's guide to ultralights, Air of
injustice (the Bob Hoover book), Sportplane Resource Guide (in a couple
different versios). But that looks like it.

--Rick

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 3 Oct 2005 20:42:13 -0700, wrote:

> John;
>
> I was told once that you can tell the quality of a person by the
> quality of those he associates with. I am now very suspect of Dr.
> Diamandis.

Oh, I don't know. This is probably a match made in heaven for Dr. Diamandis.
He wants uncritical, fawning coverage of his activities, and he gets it with
probably no more than a kind word and a hint that Zoom will get a free ride into
space (eventually). It ain't journalism, but that last thing Dr. Diamandis
probably WANTS is a journalist.

As for the number of books, I can think of about six or seven, depending on how
many editions there were of the Sportplane guide. Then again, maybe he's taking
credit for books like this, too:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T13231BEB

Ron Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:58:04 -0700, John Ammeter
> wrote:

>Jim Campbell, CEO of the Aero-News Network, is a 17,000 hour commercial
>pilot and flight instructor, a graduate of the National Test Pilot
>School

Wait, graduate of "the National Test Pilot School"? Thought he just
attended a lecture.

Corky Scott

[[email protected]]

I remember one of his Barnstorming rants from when he was leaving
Sport Pilot to go out on the airshow circuit. How he had plans to write
a book and it was, in his words going to be a Pulitzer winner. Well
there was never an airshow or a Pulitzer. However I do know that into
the 90's his telephone answering machine message was "if you are
calling to book an airshow I am booked through the next year".

A favorite of mine is when zzzzoom was getting ready to publish his
Sportplane Resource Guide. He went on a fishing trip for info from the
Aerocrafters folks. He wanted to find out just how many of the books
they printed. Well needless to say they were up on him and gave him a
number several times what the real print run was. Knowing that he could
always do better than anyone else he added a few thousand to that
inflated number. My best guess is that nearly 10 years later he still
has quite a few left.

Frank M.Hitlaw
Jakarta, Indonesia

[Anthony W]

John Ousterhout wrote:
> Anthony W wrote:
>
>>
>> Those 17 books should be an easy put up or shut up for him. Any
>> chance one of them was published?
>>
>> Tony
>
>
> I have a copy of this one (but I never asked Zoom for an autograph).
>
> "Flyers Guide to Ultralights", by Jim Campbell
> TAB Books Inc, 1985, ISBN 0-8306-2376-0
>
> Of interest to many is this excerpt from the book:
>
> <BEGIN QUOTE>
>
> There are few people in the ultralight community who can claim to have
> done as much for ultralight aviation as has Chuck Slusarczyk. Starting
> back in the early days of the hang-gliding movement, Chuck has grown and
> developed along with the entire movement. He was one of the first to
> adapt and market power systems for hang gliders and helped to usher in a
> far more progressive era for this sport by designing and marketing the
> first of the "looks like a real airplane" style ultralight air vehicles.
> Even more surprising is the fact that he has done this without having
> to alienate the rest of an overly competitive industry. His sense of
> humor, fairness, and propriety have made him one of this sports more
> endearing participants.
>
> <END QUOTE>

Nice quote and accurate. I'll bet it's the last bit of truth he said in
print.

Tony

[Robert Yoder]

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
> Oh, I don't know. This is probably a match made in heaven for Dr. Diamandis.
> He wants uncritical, fawning coverage of his activities, and he gets it with
> probably no more than a kind word and a hint that Zoom will get a free ride into
> space (eventually).

Round trip, or one-way?
(I can hope, can't I?)

ry
--

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article <Ffv0f.391674$x96.305016@attbi_s72>, John Ousterhout says...

>I have a copy of this one (but I never asked Zoom for an autograph).
>
> "Flyers Guide to Ultralights", by Jim Campbell
> TAB Books Inc, 1985, ISBN 0-8306-2376-0
>
>Of interest to many is this excerpt from the book:
>
><BEGIN QUOTE>
>
>There are few people in the ultralight community who can claim to have
>done as much for ultralight aviation as has Chuck Slusarczyk. Starting
>back in the early days of the hang-gliding movement, Chuck has grown and
>developed along with the entire movement. He was one of the first to
>adapt and market power systems for hang gliders and helped to usher in a
>far more progressive era for this sport by designing and marketing the
>first of the "looks like a real airplane" style ultralight air vehicles.
> Even more surprising is the fact that he has done this without having
>to alienate the rest of an overly competitive industry. His sense of
>humor, fairness, and propriety have made him one of this sports more
>endearing participants.
>
><END QUOTE>
Gee John where did I go astray? Sob!!

Boy jaun is in a real dilemma.Since he believes everything zoom says is true
then what zoom said about me must be true. But jaun thinks everything I did
was a lie but if it's a lie then zoom is wrong in saying what he did about me .
Therefore zoom is either a liar about me or telling the truth about me and if
he's lying then he proves himself to be a liar,but if he's telling the truth
about me then jaun is in disagreement with his hero.So if a liar tells the truth
is he lying?or is a Liar lying about the truth when he lies to cover up the
truth while lying about the truth a Liar?....I think :-)

Sorry I just had a wee nip of Muzzle Loader for my "arthritis" and I couldn't
help myself :-)

See ya

Chuck (an endearing participant) S

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:19:11 -0400, wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:58:04 -0700, John Ammeter
> > wrote:
>
> >Jim Campbell, CEO of the Aero-News Network, is a 17,000 hour commercial
> >pilot and flight instructor, a graduate of the National Test Pilot
> >School
>
> Wait, graduate of "the National Test Pilot School"? Thought he just
> attended a lecture.

One-week introductory course. Last I checked, NTPS doesn't even offer it
anymore, a two-week session is now the shortest.

Ron Wanttaja

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 4 Oct 2005 09:58:21 -0700, wrote:

> A favorite of mine is when zzzzoom was getting ready to publish his
> Sportplane Resource Guide. He went on a fishing trip for info from the
> Aerocrafters folks. He wanted to find out just how many of the books
> they printed. Well needless to say they were up on him and gave him a
> number several times what the real print run was. Knowing that he could
> always do better than anyone else he added a few thousand to that
> inflated number. My best guess is that nearly 10 years later he still
> has quite a few left.

Campbell and Kindred Spirits Press (his book company) was sued in 2000 by a
company called Mcnaughton and Gunn, a book-printing company. He lost, appealed,
was denied, and filed another appeal. The last appeal was turned down when he
never actually filed paperwork explaining the *reason* for the appeal.

To read the court orders, go to:

http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp

and enter "Mcnaughton & Gunn" for the search term.

The judgement was over $3,000.

Ron Wanttaja

[Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired]

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2005 09:58:21 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>> A favorite of mine is when zzzzoom was getting ready to publish his
>>Sportplane Resource Guide. He went on a fishing trip for info from the
>>Aerocrafters folks. He wanted to find out just how many of the books
>>they printed. Well needless to say they were up on him and gave him a
>>number several times what the real print run was. Knowing that he could
>>always do better than anyone else he added a few thousand to that
>>inflated number. My best guess is that nearly 10 years later he still
>>has quite a few left.
>
>
> Campbell and Kindred Spirits Press (his book company) was sued in 2000 by a
> company called Mcnaughton and Gunn, a book-printing company. He lost, appealed,
> was denied, and filed another appeal. The last appeal was turned down when he
> never actually filed paperwork explaining the *reason* for the appeal.
>
> To read the court orders, go to:
>
> http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp
>
> and enter "Mcnaughton & Gunn" for the search term.
>
> The judgement was over $3,000.
>
> Ron Wanttaja

What was the suit about? The site you gave doesn't say unless I'm
doing something wrong.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 01:24:41 -0500, "Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired"
> wrote:

> > Campbell and Kindred Spirits Press (his book company) was sued in 2000 by a
> > company called Mcnaughton and Gunn, a book-printing company. He lost, appealed,
> > was denied, and filed another appeal. The last appeal was turned down when he
> > never actually filed paperwork explaining the *reason* for the appeal.
> >
> > To read the court orders, go to:
> >
> > http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp
> >
> > and enter "Mcnaughton & Gunn" for the search term.
> >
> > The judgement was over $3,000.
> >
> > Ron Wanttaja
>
> What was the suit about? The site you gave doesn't say unless I'm
> doing something wrong.

No, the specific claims in the suit are available only by requesting the court
documents, which I haven't bothered to do in this case. The "Action" entry is
merely "Damages." However, if you look at the initial court order in the case,
it says that "Principal Balance Due: $2,694.69" and "Interest accrued to date:
$522.60". I think it's a good assumption that the suit was over an unpaid bill.
See the judgement yourself at:

http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/details.asp?doc_id=2552921&file_num=2001206755&doc_status=V

.... by clicking the 'get image' button. When you see that the court costs
claimed were only $160, it's obvious this wasn't a very complex case.

Ron Wanttaja

[Cy Galley]

ANN Editor-In-Chief,
Jim Campbell, has also recently been selected by the X
PRIZE-inspired Rocket Racing League to be one
of four founding pilots, along with Rick Searfoss, Sean Tucker
and Erik Lindbergh, to command the forthcoming new generation of
Mark 1 Rocket Racers which will debut at next year's X Prize Cup
event.

"Robert Yoder" > wrote in message
...
> Ron Wanttaja wrote:
>> Oh, I don't know. This is probably a match made in heaven for Dr.
>> Diamandis.
>> He wants uncritical, fawning coverage of his activities, and he gets it
>> with
>> probably no more than a kind word and a hint that Zoom will get a free
>> ride into
>> space (eventually).
>
> Round trip, or one-way?
> (I can hope, can't I?)
>
> ry
> --

[Your Name Here]

> You'll notice that zoom put his name first on the list when he published
> the
> story and names on ANN LOL!! We're getting closer and closer to the the
> script
> of "the Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom in Outer Space" . Can't wait till
> zoom
> "test" flys one and loops,rolls and spins while pulling 10 g's LOL!!!

Why not? Other than the League of Women Voters, Little League, and 2,000
Leagues Under the Sea, the only other leagues that come readily to mind are
organizations of fictitious super heroes. Ok. There was the League of
Nations, but it was another grandiose failure.

[Your Name Here]

> I was told once that you can tell the quality of a person by the
> quality of those he associates with. I am now very suspect of Dr.
> Diamandis.

I don't know why. You can't fault him for affording professional courtesy
to another MD who shares his passion for flying.

[John Ousterhout]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article <Ffv0f.391674$x96.305016@attbi_s72>, John Ousterhout says...

>
>>I have a copy of this one (but I never asked Zoom for an autograph).
>>
>> "Flyers Guide to Ultralights", by Jim Campbell
>> TAB Books Inc, 1985, ISBN 0-8306-2376-0
>>
>>Of interest to many is this excerpt from the book:
>>
>><BEGIN QUOTE>
>>
>>There are few people in the ultralight community who can claim to have
>>done as much for ultralight aviation as has Chuck Slusarczyk. Starting
>>back in the early days of the hang-gliding movement, Chuck has grown and
>>developed along with the entire movement. He was one of the first to
>>adapt and market power systems for hang gliders and helped to usher in a
>>far more progressive era for this sport by designing and marketing the
>>first of the "looks like a real airplane" style ultralight air vehicles.
>> Even more surprising is the fact that he has done this without having
>>to alienate the rest of an overly competitive industry. His sense of
>>humor, fairness, and propriety have made him one of this sports more
>>endearing participants.
>>
>><END QUOTE>


> Gee John where did I go astray?

I believe it was when you stopped buying advertisements in Zoom's
'magazine'. Look at how well those who continued to advertise were treated.

- John Ousterhout -
http://ousterhout.net/zoom.html

[John Ousterhout]

Cy Galley wrote:
> ANN Editor-In-Chief,
> Jim Campbell, has also recently been selected by the X
> PRIZE-inspired Rocket Racing League to be one
> of four founding pilots, along with Rick Searfoss, Sean Tucker
> and Erik Lindbergh, to command the forthcoming new generation of
> Mark 1 Rocket Racers which will debut at next year's X Prize Cup
> event.

Zoom to fly a rocket in a race! What BRAVO SIERRA!

If Jim Campbell ever is (solo) pilot of a rocket in a race then I'll
issue a public apology.

- John (longshot) Ousterhout -

[[email protected]]

One interesting concept is if they would have a demonstration at Sun
n Fun. The mooz will have to watch with binoculars from the parking
lot. I don't think that the good Doctor can change the fact that Sun n
Fun is a zzzoom free zone.

Walt Troyer should come out of retirement to M.C. this event. I can
see it now,"let me introduce the four founding pilots of the Rocket
Racing League. From left to right on the announcing stand Eric
Lindbergh, Rick Searfoss, Sean Tucker and observing from the Polk
County Parkway captain zzzoom."

Frank M. Hitlaw
Jakarta, Indonesia

[Cy Galley]

I found 21 books with "Jim Campbell" None in aviation

ALL Children's books! <GRIN>

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> One interesting concept is if they would have a demonstration at Sun
> n Fun. The mooz will have to watch with binoculars from the parking
> lot. I don't think that the good Doctor can change the fact that Sun n
> Fun is a zzzoom free zone.
>
> Walt Troyer should come out of retirement to M.C. this event. I can
> see it now,"let me introduce the four founding pilots of the Rocket
> Racing League. From left to right on the announcing stand Eric
> Lindbergh, Rick Searfoss, Sean Tucker and observing from the Polk
> County Parkway captain zzzoom."
>
> Frank M. Hitlaw
> Jakarta, Indonesia
>

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:05:05 -0400, "Your Name Here" >
wrote:

> Why not? Other than the League of Women Voters, Little League, and 2,000
> Leagues Under the Sea, the only other leagues that come readily to mind are
> organizations of fictitious super heroes. Ok. There was the League of
> Nations, but it was another grandiose failure.

And who can forget the Hanseatic League?

Gotta admit the project is interesting, from the engineering and logistics point
of view. The airplanes themselves will have to be shipped from venue to venue,
as will all the specialist gear to service them, the pit stations, the jumbotron
screens, etc. When you add the aircraft assemblers and pit stop crews (who
might be the same people) and the computer and video operations folks, this is a
pretty big logistical tail. The rocket technicians, at minimum, will be on a
full-time payroll and while the computer and video gear could be rented, the
rocket-specific stuff can't. So it's an expensive operation, especially if
there are only a few events per year. But Dr. Diamandis is rich, so breaking
even isn't a big driver.

I'd guess it will be the first time that two or more rocket-powered aircraft
have been in flight at the same time at the same location. If they do implement
the "pit stop" aspect, that will undoubtedly be the first time a manned rocket
system has been designed for rapid refueling. The Xcor people have made two
flights within a few hours, but the RRL is talking minutes, not hours.

All the avionics will probably be powered by batteries (rockets don't run
generators).... which means if the RRL is planning a whole afternoon's worth or
racin', they'll need to either rapid-charge the batteries or plan on including a
rapid battery-switch capability at the pit stops. With a differential-GPS-based
navigation system used for separation, they'll probably need dual electrical
systems. They certainly could operate a separate APU, running on ordinary fuel,
but that does increase weight and complexity.

The use of a rocket mostly drives them to a canard configuration, and that might
be a problem. One reason folks didn't like the Solitaire canard sailplane is
that the canard tended to block the visibility when flying with other sailplanes
in a thermal. I'd guess the same thing applies to racing.

And then we get the whole racing aspect.

The comparison is made to NASCAR, which probably isn't too apt. After all, the
cars on the NASCAR circuit are owned by different racing teams, which I
understand are quite competitive. All the planes in the RRL are being built to
the same design, and will be operated by one "team"...the RRL itself.

Of course, NASCAR has some fairly stringent limitations which tend to even out
the performance differences between cars. Which makes it a competition against
*drivers*...who can pick the best line into the curves, who has the guts to ride
six inches behind another car and save fuel by drafting, who can bluff out and
intimidate other drivers, etc.

And of course, the RRL will have NONE of that. The pilots won't need any "race
smarts" since they're following pre-programmed courses. "Each pilot will follow
his or her own "virtual tunnel" of space with the aid of satellite-navigation
technology, safely separated from their competitors by a minimum distance" (BBC
News). Any good autopilot can do that.

In any case, the race pilots will be following a computer-generated course,
"safely separated from their competitors." NASCAR drivers will be laughing
their tails off. Plus, of course, since the tracks are pre-programmed...the
winner of the "race" is already known, right?

This is starting to sound less like NASCAR and more like pro wrestling. :-)

I'm really neutral about auto racing, but I have to admit the starts are
exciting...dozens of cars, packed in the tight group, hauling down the
straightaway waiting for the green flag. Nothing like that in the RRL:"... the
X-racers will take off from a runway both in a staggered fashion and side-by
side..." I'm betting they won't be able to launch more than two at a time,
side-by-side, but it should be fun to watch...I bet there's never before been a
formation takeoff of rocket planes. Although it really won't be "formation,"
since the engines aren't throttleable. Hard to fly formation without fine
adjustments of engine power.

Staggered takeoffs work at Reno since the planes can go aloft and join up into a
start formation. But the X-racers only have four minutes of fuel. That'll take
some careful planning to join up more than two airplanes for an in-air start so
that they'll have the same amount of fuel and be at the same altitude. TWO
airplanes, it's no problem...launch at the same time, and stay balls-out until
they complete the course. However, I expect they probably won't cram more than
two of these things across a typical runway.

What they might do is arrange separate courses for the planes, all set to
converge at the finish line so that each plane will have some fuel left. They
can then finish by racing past the checkered flag with rockets a'blazing. In
this case, planes launched FIRST may be at an advantage...since they'll probably
be lighter since they've burned off more fuel.

But then, we forget the pit stop. The race may indeed go longer than the ten
minutes or so of flight the rocket fuel gives them.

Watching the pit crews is one aspect of NASCAR that I find interesting...
watching the cars get fueled, have their tires changed, suspensions tweaked, and
sometimes even minor damage repaired in 20 seconds or less.

The RRL pit stops are expected to take about forty times longer. Kind of lacks
drama.

From what little information is given on the web page, it's obvious that the RRL
will show very little "head to head" racing like Reno. In car races, it's
pretty easy to tell who to watch. But I suspect the computer tote boards will
be the only way for RRL viewers and attendees to tell what's happening.

As a NOVELTY item, though...it sounds pretty cool. I'll probably go, if one's
held locally. Might even watch it on TV...but it sounds like an event that just
screams for TIVO.

Ron Wanttaja

[Rich S.]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Who would be willing to sit in a plane of this type, while it is being
> refueled? Not the pilots mentioned, with the possible exception of
> zoomie.
> Who will be a pit crew member, once they realized what they are being
> asked
> to do? I can't imagine who, can you?

Hmmm...... Instead of refueling the plane, have the pilot jump in a second
one which is ready to go. Then the pit crew can refuel the first one, switch
batteries, etc. Non-stop action in the air and on the ground.

Rich "Shoot the swamp rat, Luke. Use the force. . ." S.

[Morgans]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote

> As a NOVELTY item, though...it sounds pretty cool. I'll probably go, if
one's
> held locally. Might even watch it on TV...but it sounds like an event
that just
> screams for TIVO.

You are being very kind, tonight. It sounds like it will have all the drama
of watching paint dry, to me.

This is all supposing that it happens, which I suspect it won't. The money
man didn't get the money by being stupid, and sooner of later, he will
understand that he has been conned.

Of course, some people say they watch racing to see wrecks. Those people
will no doubt enjoy seeing the explosions that will happen during the pit
stop. Not if, but when; if they try to rush this type of refueling
activity. Once again, smarter heads will prevail, I suspect.

Who would be willing to sit in a plane of this type, while it is being
refueled? Not the pilots mentioned, with the possible exception of zoomie.
Who will be a pit crew member, once they realized what they are being asked
to do? I can't imagine who, can you?
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

One accidental spill of the propellent and the explosion in the pits
would make Hiroshima look like a wet match.

Frank M.Hitlaw
Jakarta,Indonesia

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:02:40 -0400, "Morgans" > wrote:

>
> "Ron Wanttaja" > wrote
>
> > As a NOVELTY item, though...it sounds pretty cool. I'll probably go, if one's
> > held locally. Might even watch it on TV...but it sounds like an event that just
> > screams for TIVO.
>
> You are being very kind, tonight. It sounds like it will have all the drama
> of watching paint dry, to me.

MXC has been into repeats for quite a while...guess I'm getting desperate for
quasi-sports. :-)

The analogy didn't occur to me until a bit later, but what the "racing" actually
consists of is near-simultaneous independent time trials. EVERYONE is just
flying against the clock. Like I said, they can arrange the routes so that all
the given trials end at the same time, but that's artificial.

> This is all supposing that it happens, which I suspect it won't. The money
> man didn't get the money by being stupid, and sooner of later, he will
> understand that he has been conned.

Diamandis is the man behind the X-Prize. I've indicated my opinion of the
uselessness of sub-orbital flight in past postings, but the man's tactic worked.
A rocket was built to take the prize, and several other contestants were getting
close. Instead of the ground-hugging rocket league, if Diamandis just put his
efforts into a "Y-Prize" (for the first spacecraft to stay above 100 km for more
than 90 minutes, and repeat the flight within two weeks) that would REALLY be
worth something. We need cheap travel to low Earth orbit more than terrestrial
bread and circuses.

I don't see the rocket league as a money-making enterprise, but, hey, it's his
money. If he gets his rocks off by collecting rocket ships and sycophants,
that's his business.

> Of course, some people say they watch racing to see wrecks. Those people
> will no doubt enjoy seeing the explosions that will happen during the pit
> stop. Not if, but when; if they try to rush this type of refueling
> activity. Once again, smarter heads will prevail, I suspect.
>
> Who would be willing to sit in a plane of this type, while it is being
> refueled? Not the pilots mentioned, with the possible exception of zoomie.
> Who will be a pit crew member, once they realized what they are being asked
> to do? I can't imagine who, can you?

Well...remember, the Xcor-type rockets are fueled with alcohol. No more
dangerous, really, the fuels used any other type of racing.

True, they also have to include a big load of liquid oxygen. Xcor's Long-EZ
puts the oxygen in tanks where the passenger normally sits. I really know
nothing about handing LOX, but I wouldn't want to sit in the front seat during
loading.

Still, remember that these are NOT competitive vehicles. The designers can add
safety barriers and whatnot, and it won't affect racing because all the aircraft
are of identical design.

Your point about "watching races to see wrecks" has another corollary. In
NASCAR, wrecks are expected and don't interrupt the show longer than it takes to
sweep the plastic and metal off the track. A wreck during a rocket league event
is different...the airfield would close down, and that's the end of it. The
average NASCAR fan will probably be quite incensed.

And just think how the other pilots feel if one of them splatters the only
runway when all the other racers have expended their four minutes of rocket
fuel.

Ron "Vr...and Bingo!" Wanttaja