The Instrument you can live without

[Chris W]

If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
pack that you could not use, which one would it be?

--
Chris W

Gift Giving Made Easy
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give the gifts they want
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[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:46:41 -0500, Chris W > wrote:

>If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
>hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
>pack that you could not use, which one would it be?

DG (i have a compass, and a GPS with HSI yoke mounted).

Airspeed would be my next option. Again, GPS/DME Groundspeed, plus
pitch/power.

[Steve Foley]

I'm going on a flight with a six-pack. My instrument of choice is a bottle
opener.
(Sorry - I couldn't resist)


"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Ftx0f.851$sE3.515@lakeread07...
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>
> --
> Chris W
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want &
> give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift,
> from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com

[Brad Zeigler]

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Ftx0f.851$sE3.515@lakeread07...
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?

Hobbs meter.

[Chris W]

Brad Zeigler wrote:

>Hobbs meter.
>
>
>
I guess I need to be more specific. If, before an IFR flight, you had
to remove one of the instruments in the image linked below, which one
would it be?

http://www.thewishzone.com/aviation/index.php?image=Instruments.jpg

Other than a compass, and navaid radios you have no other device to prevent you from impacting the ground unexpectedly. To be even more clear, you don't have a GPS!




--
Chris W

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

[George Patterson]

Chris W wrote:

> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?

VSI.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Chris G.]

The AI. In reading the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook, it says you can
derive all of the necessary flight information from the other 5 instruments.

Chris G.

Chris W wrote:
> Brad Zeigler wrote:
>
>> Hobbs meter.
>>
>>
> I guess I need to be more specific. If, before an IFR flight, you had
> to remove one of the instruments in the image linked below, which one
> would it be?
>
> http://www.thewishzone.com/aviation/index.php?image=Instruments.jpg
>
> Other than a compass, and navaid radios you have no other device to
> prevent you from impacting the ground unexpectedly. To be even more
> clear, you don't have a GPS!
>
>
>
>

[George Patterson]

Chris G. wrote:

> The AI. In reading the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook, it says you can
> derive all of the necessary flight information from the other 5
> instruments.

But you can get all of the info provided by the TC or the DG from a single
instrument, and you can get all the info provided by the VSI from two.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Faz0f.868$sE3.740@lakeread07...
>
> I guess I need to be more specific. If, before an IFR flight, you had to
> remove one of the instruments in the image linked below, which one would
> it be?
>
> http://www.thewishzone.com/aviation/index.php?image=Instruments.jpg
>

Still VSI

[John Huthmaker]

I think it was a joke, but I could live without the Hobbs too :)

--
John Huthmaker

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Faz0f.868$sE3.740@lakeread07...
> Brad Zeigler wrote:
>
>>Hobbs meter.
>>
> I guess I need to be more specific. If, before an IFR flight, you had to
> remove one of the instruments in the image linked below, which one would
> it be?
>
> http://www.thewishzone.com/aviation/index.php?image=Instruments.jpg
>
> Other than a compass, and navaid radios you have no other device to
> prevent you from impacting the ground unexpectedly. To be even more
> clear, you don't have a GPS!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris W
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com

[RST Engineering]

VSI



"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Ftx0f.851$sE3.515@lakeread07...
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Ftx0f.851$sE3.515@lakeread07...
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?

VSI, no question.

[Brad Zeigler]

"John Huthmaker" > wrote in message
k.net...
>I think it was a joke, but I could live without the Hobbs too :)

It was, and since Rod Machado doesn't post here, I responded accordingly.

[Brad Zeigler]

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Faz0f.868$sE3.740@lakeread07...
> Brad Zeigler wrote:
>
>>Hobbs meter.
>>
> I guess I need to be more specific. If, before an IFR flight, you had to
> remove one of the instruments in the image linked below, which one would
> it be?
>
> http://www.thewishzone.com/aviation/index.php?image=Instruments.jpg
>
> Other than a compass, and navaid radios you have no other device to
> prevent you from impacting the ground unexpectedly. To be even more
> clear, you don't have a GPS!

I was kidding. To answer your question, It'd be the VSI, as its legally not
required for instrument flight.

[Mark T. Dame]

Chris G. wrote:

> The AI. In reading the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook, it says you can
> derive all of the necessary flight information from the other 5
> instruments.

I agree, but the loss of any one of them is not that difficult to deal
with. The real problems start when you lose more than one. And if you
lose the AI, you're probably going to lose the DG too.

Now if you have a GPS, all you need is the the TC. The GPS lags too
much to tell be useful for roll information, but it can be sufficient to
give you everything else. In a pinch. I certainly wouldn't choose to
fly IMC that way, but it might be fun to try under the hood...


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"When I'm with you I don't know whether I should study neurosurgery
or go to see the Care Bears Movie."
-- "Weird Al" Yankovic, "You Make Me"

[Ron Natalie]

Chris W wrote:
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>

Given a choice of an instrument to smash, most students pick the hobbs
meter. The VSI is the usual volunteer however.

[kontiki]

Who needs a VSI? Nice to have but not a necessity by any stretch.

That being said, if I had to go without anything else besides
the VSI, I'd next go for the turn coordinator.

Chris W wrote:

> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>

[RST Engineering]

Turn coordinator is the LAST one I'd care to give up. Remember needle,
ball, and airspeed practice on your instrument lessons? TC is almost
universally electric, which is an order of magnitude more reliable than the
vacuum pump necessary for the DG and the AI.

Jim


"kontiki" > wrote in message
...
> Who needs a VSI? Nice to have but not a necessity by any stretch.
>
> That being said, if I had to go without anything else besides
> the VSI, I'd next go for the turn coordinator.

[Andrew Sarangan]

Try using the VSI during an approach. It will make life tremendously
easier. I would pick the turn co-ordinator as the redundant instrument
(unless of course you have a vacuum failure).

[Matt Whiting]

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> Try using the VSI during an approach. It will make life tremendously
> easier. I would pick the turn co-ordinator as the redundant instrument
> (unless of course you have a vacuum failure).
>

How? By setting my approach RPM and MP, I can get very close to the
rate of descent I need. I then fine tune from there to accomodate the
difference between airspeed and ground speed. I almost never look at
the VSI during approaches. Simply no need if you have your power
settings available.


Matt

[John Smith]

I make it a practice not to go on hypothetical flights. Too many things can
go wrong

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Ftx0f.851$sE3.515@lakeread07...
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>
> --
> Chris W
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want &
> give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift,
> from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com

[RST Engineering]

Hypothetically speaking, of course ...

{;-)

Jim



"John Smith" > wrote in message
...

>I make it a practice not to go on hypothetical flights. Too many things can
> go wrong

[kontiki]

RST Engineering wrote:

> Turn coordinator is the LAST one I'd care to give up.

Well, I actually have a turn and bank indicator as opposed
to a turn coordinator, the latter being a bit more useful,
but it is hardly the "LAST" one I'd give up.

The AI, ASI, DG & Altimeter.... these are the instruments
I rely on the most for an approach. Yes, the TC is "handy"
for accurate timed turns and holding patterns if you lost
your DG, but that wasn't the essence of the earlier question.

Besides, once you know your airplane you can establish the
correct bank angle with the AI for holding pattern power
(airspeed) to give you a standard rate turn just as accurately.
If you have littel or no experience in a plane then the TC
is more useful to you... at least for a while.

Yes the TC is very nice but I know the feel of my airplane
well enough that I can fly a good approach without it.

[Chris W]

Chris W wrote:

> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>
I figured the VSI would be the one most people could live with out.
Only one person said the one I was wondering if anyone would mention.
For me, as someone who hasn't started my flight training yet, I am going
off my experience with MS Flight simulator. I haven't done much IFR
type flying in the simulator but I do use the instruments a fair
amount. The one instrument I almost never even notice is the AI. Maybe
it is just the way I think, but I find scanning the other instruments to
be the best way for me to get the feel for what is going on. In a real
IFR flight I wouldn't want to be with out the AI just to maintain
redundancy, however it would be what I use to confirm what the others
are telling me not the other way around . As for the VSI I find I use
it a lot but it may be because it is so hard to trim the plane in the
simulator. I have heard from pilots that have experience with real
simulators, that simulators just seem to more trim sensitive than the
real thing.

--
Chris W

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

[Marty]

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:Ftx0f.851$sE3.515@lakeread07...
> If you were about to go on an IFR flight, and for some unknown,
> hypothetical reason you had to pick one instrument in the standard six
> pack that you could not use, which one would it be?
>
> --
> Chris W

Easy, VSI

But airspeed is the only one I have actually lost in flight. Speared a bird
with the pitot on climbout, the bang was worse than the instrument loss.

Marty