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Simon Robbins
October 6th 05, 11:18 AM
"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
message ...
> The DPE told me when he gave me my temporary certificate, "This is
> your license to learn; that's it! Use it well." I'd have to say he
> hit that one right on the head.

Sounds to me like the EMS guy wasn't entirely on the ball either, so on the
assumption he's on a good deal more hours, the learning never stops.
Trouble is, when you get to that kind of level for EMS jobs, do you stop
analysing those events or accept the lesson? Putting it simply, do you
think he went away thinking he made a mistake, or moaned for the rest of the
day about the "unknown helicopter" that cut him up!?

Si

Jim Carriere
October 7th 05, 01:03 AM
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:18:37 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
>>message ...
>>
>>>The DPE told me when he gave me my temporary certificate, "This is
>>>your license to learn; that's it! Use it well." I'd have to say he
>>>hit that one right on the head.
>>
>>Sounds to me like the EMS guy wasn't entirely on the ball either, so on the
>>assumption he's on a good deal more hours, the learning never stops.
>>Trouble is, when you get to that kind of level for EMS jobs, do you stop
>>analysing those events or accept the lesson? Putting it simply, do you
>>think he went away thinking he made a mistake, or moaned for the rest of the
>>day about the "unknown helicopter" that cut him up!?
>
>
> My guess would be option B. I'm not sure what kind of range a TCAS
> has, but I'm pretty sure they work in conjunction with operating
> transpoders on other aircraft. My transponder was definitely on and
> squawking 1200 so I have no idea how he missed me unless the range on
> his gear (or his attention span) was very very short.

High time guys sometimes make basic mistakes too, and most of them
are smart enough to realize when they're wrong and figure out what
they did wrong (whether that's right away or later on...). You are a
low time guy but you have enough sense of perspective to look at
everything and assign or take blame and responsibility where it is
due. Not too bad!

> I'm still annoyed with myself for making a "newbie" mistake but after
> mulling it over last night, I'm thinking what you stated. Not blaming
> the other pilot, but it sure seems like his head wasn't entirely in
> the game and mine certainly wasn't beginning at 8 miles out.

Like your DPE told you, these things happen and we've all been there.

Try looking at it this way: you had your priorities (maintaining
situational awareness and keeping track of the other aircraft) and
rechecking the winds was less important right at that moment (you'd
checked the ATIS less than ten minutes prior). True, double checking
the windsock one last time on final is always important, but I think
your basic decision making was sound. What went most wrong was the
other aircraft created a distraction and that made you miss the wind
shift. Missing the updated winds when you first checked in at 10
miles, by itself that's not too bad (not too good either of course)
because usually you have that windsock double check to back yourself up.

Besides, the control tower should automatically give you winds with
your landing clearance.

Don't be too hard on yourself, sometimes things stack up and you just
gotta solve the problem and get over it. Cheer up :)

Bob B
October 7th 05, 03:59 AM
Kevin, look, if that is the most serious screw-up you make, consider
yourself lucky. As others have said, we've all been there, me
included.

Actually, I have the opposite problem: I *never* and I mean NEVER catch
the wind on the first go-around of the ATIS. I do not know why; it may
be a mental thing, but try as I might, I usually miss it. Over the
years, I've developed the habit of *always* knowing where the surface
wind is. Think of it this way: If your engine had quit, you very
likely would've done a downwind auto! Not good. So one thing to work
on is a general wind-awareness as you fly. You never know when it may
come in handy.

You've also found out that distractions happen and can derail your
thought process. This particular distraction occurred and did not go
immediately away. In fact, it (the EMS helicopter) continued to be the
focus of your attention as you entered a critical area of flight. Your
brain sort of went on automatic pilot for the landing, which just
happened to be downwind. Oh well. As you pointed out, you didn't make
a smoking hole.

To be a successful helicopter pilot, we must become expert
multi-taskers. And we do. But that's not to say it is an easy,
natural or quick process. Give it time though, and it will come.
Trust me.

October 7th 05, 05:05 PM
On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:00:59 -0700, The OTHER Kevin in San Diego
<skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote:

>On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:18:37 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
> wrote:
>
>>"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
>>message ...
>>> The DPE told me when he gave me my temporary certificate, "This is
>>> your license to learn; that's it! Use it well." I'd have to say he
>>> hit that one right on the head.
>>
>>Sounds to me like the EMS guy wasn't entirely on the ball either, so on the
>>assumption he's on a good deal more hours, the learning never stops.
>>Trouble is, when you get to that kind of level for EMS jobs, do you stop
>>analysing those events or accept the lesson? Putting it simply, do you
>>think he went away thinking he made a mistake, or moaned for the rest of the
>>day about the "unknown helicopter" that cut him up!?
>
>My guess would be option B. I'm not sure what kind of range a TCAS
>has, but I'm pretty sure they work in conjunction with operating
>transpoders on other aircraft. My transponder was definitely on and
>squawking 1200 so I have no idea how he missed me unless the range on
>his gear (or his attention span) was very very short.
>
The TCAS(D) while very very useful, does have its own problems. It
sometimes does not show any traffic or only some of it. At times
traffic will only show up less then one mile away. Some of them will
place false targets out there. I fly one that must really love itself
as you are flying along and all of a sudden it will alert you to
traffic at 12 o'clock "0" miles. Unless you remember prior that the
one you are flying does this, it makes your heart jump.

The only thing I can figure why they do this is the phase of the
moon??? But they are really great to have. They really help enhance
your traffic scan.

>I'm still annoyed with myself for making a "newbie" mistake but after
>mulling it over last night, I'm thinking what you stated. Not blaming
>the other pilot, but it sure seems like his head wasn't entirely in
>the game and mine certainly wasn't beginning at 8 miles out.

Chalk the downwind landing as a lesson as we all have done. Remember
how it felt (cyclic being further back then normal, more power then
usual inorder to slow the approach speed down). As you progress in
your flying and go on to a flying career, you will find out that when
you are landing in the middle of a deep canyon, the winds can be very
different and at times you will not only use what you see, but what
you feel in the controls to determine your landing approach.

October 15th 05, 10:25 PM
Apparently the original posting was removed. Could someone please
repost the original?

October 15th 05, 10:51 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Apparently the original posting was removed. Could someone please
> repost the original?

It's there.
Adjust your NG reader settings to "download all messages".

Jim Carriere
October 17th 05, 10:49 PM
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote:
> In a nutshell it was don't land downwind, don't let other aircraft
> distract you and most importantly, PAY ATTENTION.

You left out the most important part of all: learn from mistakes.

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