Atlantic Tow??

[Ed Byars]

In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication of the Sport Avia.
Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS mag. about a long
tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't believe it. Can somebody
help me verify it? No date of the flight was given. It was a Waco CG-4A
(named Voo-Doo) and was by the British from Montreal with one stop on the
"east coast"(?). The second leg was 28 hours with landing in "Britain". They
had a cargo load of 3000 pounds. Only pilot (Seys, RAF) and copilot (Gobeil,
RAF) aboard. Mention was made of thunder, snow and ice. Quote: "....the snow
and ice were so thick that the towplane, for the most part, was invisible.
Only fifteen feet or so of the towrope could be seen."
I have been involved in several long cross country tows, one of which
involved the towplane towing me into a cloud. I lasted about 20 seconds
before the rope broke. But that's another story.
If this story is true the details would really be interesting and my hat's
off. If it is untrue their must be some sort of story behind it of
interest.
Can anybody fill us in?
Ed Byars

[Mark Dickson]

This is a true story, I remember seeing a First Day
Cover commemorating it. Unfortunately I can't remember
any details.

Mark

At 15:36 06 October 2005, Ed Byars wrote:
>In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication of
>the Sport Avia.
>Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS
>mag. about a long
>tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't believe
>it. Can somebody
>help me verify it? No date of the flight was given.
>It was a Waco CG-4A
>(named Voo-Doo) and was by the British from Montreal
>with one stop on the
>'east coast'(?). The second leg was 28 hours with landing
>in 'Britain'. They
>had a cargo load of 3000 pounds. Only pilot (Seys,
>RAF) and copilot (Gobeil,
>RAF) aboard. Mention was made of thunder, snow and
>ice. Quote: '....the snow
>and ice were so thick that the towplane, for the most
>part, was invisible.
>Only fifteen feet or so of the towrope could be seen.'
>I have been involved in several long cross country
>tows, one of which
>involved the towplane towing me into a cloud. I lasted
>about 20 seconds
>before the rope broke. But that's another story.
>If this story is true the details would really be interesting
>and my hat's
>off. If it is untrue their must be some sort of story
>behind it of
>interest.
>Can anybody fill us in?
>Ed Byars
>
>
>
>

[Ian Johnston]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:14:32 UTC, "Ed Byars"
> wrote:

> In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication of the Sport Avia.
> Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS mag. about a long
> tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't believe it. Can somebody
> help me verify it? No date of the flight was given. It was a Waco CG-4A
> (named Voo-Doo) and was by the British from Montreal with one stop on the
> "east coast"(?). The second leg was 28 hours with landing in "Britain".

See "The Powerless Ones: Gliding in Peace and War" by Michael Cumming,
pp77 - 99. Route was Dorval - Goose Green - Bluie West One in
Greenland - Reykjavik - Prestwick, so four hops, not two. Total of
3,200 miles. Tow plane was a Dakota.

Ian

--

[John H. Campbell]

This was a chapter in the excellent early 1970s book "the Powerless ones"
that also recounts Wolf Klemperer's C flight of 1921, Derek Piggot's
altitude record in a T-21 and many more great stories.

[Ed Byars]

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a copy of the Cumming book. Can you give
us a little more detail of the flight? Thanks
Ed Byars
"John H. Campbell" > wrote in message
...
> This was a chapter in the excellent early 1970s book "the Powerless ones"
> that also recounts Wolf Klemperer's C flight of 1921, Derek Piggot's
> altitude record in a T-21 and many more great stories.
>
>

[[email protected]]

Found a copy for sale 20 pounds British...

http://www.orangeberry.co.uk/obmilitarycat.htm

Bob

[Dave Martin]

Mike Cummings account of this flight in June 1943 with
four legs is remarkable, the longest flight being seven
and three quarter hours.

However it was probably not the longest military glider
tow on record. About the same time In the preparation
for the invasion of Sicily July 1943, gliders were
ferried from UK to North Africa some by ship but others
by aerotow.

Part of the planning included endurance training, 8
hours flights on tow!

The ferry journey was some 1200 miles and the airspeed
of 150mph lead to flights of up to 10 hours. Bad weather
and attack by enemy aircraft meant that many did not
reach their destination some survived others did not.
Some pilots made several such flights.

For the interested, accounts of these flights can be
read in

The Glider Gang by Milton Dank ISBN 0-304-300144
Horsa Squadron by Will Morrison ISBN 0-7183-0684-8

Dave





At 02:18 07 October 2005, wrote:
>Found a copy for sale 20 pounds British...
>
>http://www.orangeberry.co.uk/obmilitarycat.htm
>
>Bob
>
>

[Rusty]

Hello All:
Try to find a copy of, "One Night in June" by Kevin Shannon & Stephen
Wright. It is "The story of Operation Tonga, the Initial Phase of the
Invasion of Normandy, 1944". It is Tonga as seen through the eyes of
the men of the Glider Regiment. A really good read, my hat is off to
these men!
Rusty

Dave Martin wrote:
> Mike Cummings account of this flight in June 1943 with
> four legs is remarkable, the longest flight being seven
> and three quarter hours.
>
> However it was probably not the longest military glider
> tow on record. About the same time In the preparation
> for the invasion of Sicily July 1943, gliders were
> ferried from UK to North Africa some by ship but others
> by aerotow.
>
> Part of the planning included endurance training, 8
> hours flights on tow!
>
> The ferry journey was some 1200 miles and the airspeed
> of 150mph lead to flights of up to 10 hours. Bad weather
> and attack by enemy aircraft meant that many did not
> reach their destination some survived others did not.
> Some pilots made several such flights.
>
> For the interested, accounts of these flights can be
> read in
>
> The Glider Gang by Milton Dank ISBN 0-304-300144
> Horsa Squadron by Will Morrison ISBN 0-7183-0684-8
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> At 02:18 07 October 2005, wrote:
> >Found a copy for sale 20 pounds British...
> >
> >http://www.orangeberry.co.uk/obmilitarycat.htm
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >

[Walter Kahn]

There are a number of stories about long aero-tows. Dave Martin
mentioned the England- North Africa tows which are very well documented
in Lawrence Wright's book 'The Wooden Sword'. Two of the tug pilots
were Buster Briggs a well known London Gliding Club member and Wing
Commander McMonnies the father in-law of Simon Marriott.

Having been towed from England to Denmark in an Olympia myself, small
beer by their achievements, having read about Robert Kronfeld's tows
around Europe before WWII, my vote for the (craziest?) tow must go to
Derek Piggott who was towed from England to Paris in an open Primary
(SG38, Slingsby Grasshopper, EON Primary type).

Can anyone top that? Wally Kahn




In message om>, Rusty
> writes
>Hello All:
>Try to find a copy of, "One Night in June" by Kevin Shannon & Stephen
>Wright. It is "The story of Operation Tonga, the Initial Phase of the
>Invasion of Normandy, 1944". It is Tonga as seen through the eyes of
>the men of the Glider Regiment. A really good read, my hat is off to
>these men!
>Rusty
>
>Dave Martin wrote:
>> Mike Cummings account of this flight in June 1943 with
>> four legs is remarkable, the longest flight being seven
>> and three quarter hours.
>>
>> However it was probably not the longest military glider
>> tow on record. About the same time In the preparation
>> for the invasion of Sicily July 1943, gliders were
>> ferried from UK to North Africa some by ship but others
>> by aerotow.
>>
>> Part of the planning included endurance training, 8
>> hours flights on tow!
>>
>> The ferry journey was some 1200 miles and the airspeed
>> of 150mph lead to flights of up to 10 hours. Bad weather
>> and attack by enemy aircraft meant that many did not
>> reach their destination some survived others did not.
>> Some pilots made several such flights.
>>
>> For the interested, accounts of these flights can be
>> read in
>>
>> The Glider Gang by Milton Dank ISBN 0-304-300144
>> Horsa Squadron by Will Morrison ISBN 0-7183-0684-8
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 02:18 07 October 2005, wrote:
>> >Found a copy for sale 20 pounds British...
>> >
>> >http://www.orangeberry.co.uk/obmilitarycat.htm
>> >
>> >Bob
>> >
>> >
>

--
Walter Kahn

[JC]

On 7 Oct 2005 04:20:32 -0700, "Rusty" > wrote:

>Hello All:
>Try to find a copy of, "One Night in June" by Kevin Shannon & Stephen
>Wright. It is "The story of Operation Tonga, the Initial Phase of the
>Invasion of Normandy, 1944". It is Tonga as seen through the eyes of
>the men of the Glider Regiment. A really good read, my hat is off to
>these men!
>Rusty
>

Thanks for the information on "One Night in June". I have ordered a
copy.

>Dave Martin wrote:
>> Mike Cummings account of this flight in June 1943 with
>> four legs is remarkable, the longest flight being seven
>> and three quarter hours.
>>
>> However it was probably not the longest military glider
>> tow on record. About the same time In the preparation
>> for the invasion of Sicily July 1943, gliders were
>> ferried from UK to North Africa some by ship but others
>> by aerotow.
>>
>> Part of the planning included endurance training, 8
>> hours flights on tow!
>>
>> The ferry journey was some 1200 miles and the airspeed
>> of 150mph lead to flights of up to 10 hours. Bad weather
>> and attack by enemy aircraft meant that many did not
>> reach their destination some survived others did not.
>> Some pilots made several such flights.
>>
>> For the interested, accounts of these flights can be
>> read in
>>
>> The Glider Gang by Milton Dank ISBN 0-304-300144
>> Horsa Squadron by Will Morrison ISBN 0-7183-0684-8
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 02:18 07 October 2005, wrote:
>> >Found a copy for sale 20 pounds British...
>> >
>> >http://www.orangeberry.co.uk/obmilitarycat.htm
>> >
>> >Bob
>> >
>> >

[Bob Korves]

"Ed Byars" > wrote in
:

> In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication of the Sport Avia.
> Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS mag. about a
> long tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't believe it. Can
> somebody help me verify it? No date of the flight was given. It was a
> Waco CG-4A (named Voo-Doo) and was by the British from Montreal with
> one stop on the "east coast"(?). The second leg was 28 hours with
> landing in "Britain". They had a cargo load of 3000 pounds. Only pilot
> (Seys, RAF) and copilot (Gobeil, RAF) aboard. Mention was made of
> thunder, snow and ice. Quote: "....the snow and ice were so thick that
> the towplane, for the most part, was invisible. Only fifteen feet or
> so of the towrope could be seen." I have been involved in several long
> cross country tows, one of which involved the towplane towing me into
> a cloud. I lasted about 20 seconds before the rope broke. But that's
> another story. If this story is true the details would really be
> interesting and my hat's off. If it is untrue their must be some sort
> of story behind it of interest.
> Can anybody fill us in?
> Ed Byars
>
>

I read somewhere, can't remember where, that CG-4 pilots would tie a red
rag on the tow rope some short distance from the cockpit, and early in the
flight would mark a circle on the windshield with a china marker to show
the position of the rag during normal tow. The red rag and china marker
circle on the windshield was apparently enough to stay behind the tug in
instrument condtions. Can anybody confirm this?
-Bob Korves

[Chris Rollings]

Yes, I've read 1st hand descriptions that a mark on
the perspex lined up with a tag on the rope, was the
normal way of keeping position in cloud.

At 23:24 07 October 2005, Bob Korves wrote:
>'Ed Byars' wrote in
:
>
>> In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication
>>of the Sport Avia.
>> Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS
>>mag. about a
>> long tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't
>>believe it. Can
>> somebody help me verify it? No date of the flight
>>was given. It was a
>> Waco CG-4A (named Voo-Doo) and was by the British
>>from Montreal with
>> one stop on the 'east coast'(?). The second leg was
>>28 hours with
>> landing in 'Britain'. They had a cargo load of 3000
>>pounds. Only pilot
>> (Seys, RAF) and copilot (Gobeil, RAF) aboard. Mention
>>was made of
>> thunder, snow and ice. Quote: '....the snow and ice
>>were so thick that
>> the towplane, for the most part, was invisible. Only
>>fifteen feet or
>> so of the towrope could be seen.' I have been involved
>>in several long
>> cross country tows, one of which involved the towplane
>>towing me into
>> a cloud. I lasted about 20 seconds before the rope
>>broke. But that's
>> another story. If this story is true the details would
>>really be
>> interesting and my hat's off. If it is untrue their
>>must be some sort
>> of story behind it of interest.
>> Can anybody fill us in?
>> Ed Byars
>>
>>
>
>I read somewhere, can't remember where, that CG-4 pilots
>would tie a red
>rag on the tow rope some short distance from the cockpit,
>and early in the
>flight would mark a circle on the windshield with a
>china marker to show
>the position of the rag during normal tow. The red
>rag and china marker
>circle on the windshield was apparently enough to stay
>behind the tug in
>instrument condtions. Can anybody confirm this?
>-Bob Korves
>
>

[Dave Martin]

For the transatlantic flight, the pilot Squadron leader
Richard Seys fitted the Waco glider, named Voo Doo
with an airliner type seat this jept his head in the
same position. During a practice flight he attached
a strip of coloured rag to the tow cable which was
attached to the roof of the glider.

By putting two marks with lipstick on the windscreen
he was able to determine high and low positions when
the tug was obscured by cloud.

Dave Martin
(No expert, I just happen to have a copy of Mike Cummings
book)



At 06:24 08 October 2005, Chris Rollings wrote:
>Yes, I've read 1st hand descriptions that a mark on
>the perspex lined up with a tag on the rope, was the
>normal way of keeping position in cloud.
>
>At 23:24 07 October 2005, Bob Korves wrote:
>>'Ed Byars' wrote in
:
>>
>>> In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication
>>>of the Sport Avia.
>>> Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS
>>>mag. about a
>>> long tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't
>>>believe it. Can
>>> somebody help me verify it? No date of the flight
>>>was given. It was a
>>> Waco CG-4A (named Voo-Doo) and was by the British
>>>from Montreal with
>>> one stop on the 'east coast'(?). The second leg was
>>>28 hours with
>>> landing in 'Britain'. They had a cargo load of 3000
>>>pounds. Only pilot
>>> (Seys, RAF) and copilot (Gobeil, RAF) aboard. Mention
>>>was made of
>>> thunder, snow and ice. Quote: '....the snow and ice
>>>were so thick that
>>> the towplane, for the most part, was invisible. Only
>>>fifteen feet or
>>> so of the towrope could be seen.' I have been involved
>>>in several long
>>> cross country tows, one of which involved the towplane
>>>towing me into
>>> a cloud. I lasted about 20 seconds before the rope
>>>broke. But that's
>>> another story. If this story is true the details would
>>>really be
>>> interesting and my hat's off. If it is untrue their
>>>must be some sort
>>> of story behind it of interest.
>>> Can anybody fill us in?
>>> Ed Byars
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I read somewhere, can't remember where, that CG-4 pilots
>>would tie a red
>>rag on the tow rope some short distance from the cockpit,
>>and early in the
>>flight would mark a circle on the windshield with a
>>china marker to show
>>the position of the rag during normal tow. The red
>>rag and china marker
>>circle on the windshield was apparently enough to stay
>>behind the tug in
>>instrument condtions. Can anybody confirm this?
>>-Bob Korves
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[Stefan Lörchner]

>> thunder, snow and ice. Quote: "....the snow and ice were so thick that
>> the towplane, for the most part, was invisible. Only fifteen feet or
>> so of the towrope could be seen." I have been involved in several long
>> cross country tows, one of which involved the towplane towing me into
>> a cloud. I lasted about 20 seconds before the rope broke. But that's
>> another story. If this story is true the details would really be

A former Me109 pilot of my club told me lots of stories about transport
gliders. Their glider pilots kept control in IFR by keeping position
behind the rudder. They didn't use ropes but metal tubes. So the
distance was only 5m.

[Ed Byars]

I appreciate the replies to my original query.
I'm old enough to remember WWII and the myriad phenomenal exploits therein,
but my thousands of glider tows makes me humble to the bone thinking of
being on tow IFR over the Atlantic hours from shore. It's such a gross
understatement to just say that that takes guts (balls).
Yes...WWII was a trying time! Especially for our Brit friends.
Thanks again for educating me about what I consider to be more than just
"war trivia".
Ed Byars

"Dave Martin" > wrote in message
...
> For the transatlantic flight, the pilot Squadron leader
> Richard Seys fitted the Waco glider, named Voo Doo
> with an airliner type seat this jept his head in the
> same position. During a practice flight he attached
> a strip of coloured rag to the tow cable which was
> attached to the roof of the glider.
>
> By putting two marks with lipstick on the windscreen
> he was able to determine high and low positions when
> the tug was obscured by cloud.
>
> Dave Martin
> (No expert, I just happen to have a copy of Mike Cummings
> book)
>
>
>
> At 06:24 08 October 2005, Chris Rollings wrote:
>>Yes, I've read 1st hand descriptions that a mark on
>>the perspex lined up with a tag on the rope, was the
>>normal way of keeping position in cloud.
>>
>>At 23:24 07 October 2005, Bob Korves wrote:
>>>'Ed Byars' wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> In the latest Fall edition of TO FLY, publication
>>>>of the Sport Avia.
>>>> Assoc., I read a reprint of a July 1944 issue of SKYWAYS
>>>>mag. about a
>>>> long tow! Across the Atlantic no less. I just can't
>>>>believe it. Can
>>>> somebody help me verify it? No date of the flight
>>>>was given. It was a
>>>> Waco CG-4A (named Voo-Doo) and was by the British
>>>>from Montreal with
>>>> one stop on the 'east coast'(?). The second leg was
>>>>28 hours with
>>>> landing in 'Britain'. They had a cargo load of 3000
>>>>pounds. Only pilot
>>>> (Seys, RAF) and copilot (Gobeil, RAF) aboard. Mention
>>>>was made of
>>>> thunder, snow and ice. Quote: '....the snow and ice
>>>>were so thick that
>>>> the towplane, for the most part, was invisible. Only
>>>>fifteen feet or
>>>> so of the towrope could be seen.' I have been involved
>>>>in several long
>>>> cross country tows, one of which involved the towplane
>>>>towing me into
>>>> a cloud. I lasted about 20 seconds before the rope
>>>>broke. But that's
>>>> another story. If this story is true the details would
>>>>really be
>>>> interesting and my hat's off. If it is untrue their
>>>>must be some sort
>>>> of story behind it of interest.
>>>> Can anybody fill us in?
>>>> Ed Byars
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I read somewhere, can't remember where, that CG-4 pilots
>>>would tie a red
>>>rag on the tow rope some short distance from the cockpit,
>>>and early in the
>>>flight would mark a circle on the windshield with a
>>>china marker to show
>>>the position of the rag during normal tow. The red
>>>rag and china marker
>>>circle on the windshield was apparently enough to stay
>>>behind the tug in
>>>instrument condtions. Can anybody confirm this?
>>>-Bob Korves
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>