homebuilt UAV's?

[[email protected]]

http://aar400.tc.faa.gov/Programs/FlightSafety/sdss/reqcertop.htm

Ran across this, and a few other pages after a Google but haven't yet
found an answer........

Some of the models planes are larger, faster, and more complex than
some human carrying aircraft. The large scale B-52 with 8 turbines
comes to mind.

Just where is the line drawn - if it is at all - between an FAA
regulated UAV and a model plane? Is it size, speed, weight, use
(commercial/hobby), or autonomy that's the deciding factor?

========================
Leon McAtee

[Stealth Pilot]

On 8 Oct 2005 09:18:09 -0700, "
> wrote:

>http://aar400.tc.faa.gov/Programs/FlightSafety/sdss/reqcertop.htm
>
>Ran across this, and a few other pages after a Google but haven't yet
>found an answer........
>
>Some of the models planes are larger, faster, and more complex than
>some human carrying aircraft. The large scale B-52 with 8 turbines
>comes to mind.
>
>Just where is the line drawn - if it is at all - between an FAA
>regulated UAV and a model plane? Is it size, speed, weight, use
>(commercial/hobby), or autonomy that's the deciding factor?
>
>========================
>Leon McAtee

if australian regulations are a guide it is weight and location flown.

[John T]

RC models such as the B-52 (which was an extraordinary effort, and not
your everyday RC model, BTW), I would not consider UAV's in the sense of
UAV's. They remain in visual range of the pilot, which actually isn't
very far.

RC pilots are not a threat to "full size" aviation, unless someone is
stupid enough to break the rules about flying too close to airports.

John

[John T]

Forgot to mention. In the US, the governing body Academy of Model
Aeronautics (AMA), designates 55# as the max wieght limit for model
planes. This can be exceeded with a waiver, which is fairly easy to obtain.
The other side of this coin is, membership isn't madatory. You can fly
without AMA. Most people who belong to the AMA do it for the insurance.

John

[[email protected]]

>>RC pilots are not a threat to "full size" aviation, unless someone is
stupid enough to break the rules about flying too close to airports.

John <<

Hope I wasn't implying that R/C guys were a threat. that was most
definatly not my intent. I'm more interested in the point where the
FAA might be a significant concearn.

What I have in mind is commercial venture using a 1/4 scale sized UAV
used for aerial observation at ranges of 10 to 20 miles and elevations
of up to 1000 ft AGL. Payload for video and radio link only needs to
be about 2 to 3 lbs. The missions would be repetitive in nature and
could possibly be flown autonomously.

The UAV needed would be well under the #55 limit mentioned but would
need to be operated out of visual sight.
=================
Leon McAtee

[Pete Schaefer]

There's an R/C airfield that is alarmingly close to the Van Nuys airfield in
SoCal. It is watched pretty closely, but I would hardly consider the R/C
guys to not be a "threat". There have been incidents. You should see the
place. Talk about "too close to airports".

"John T" > wrote in message
...
> RC models such as the B-52 (which was an extraordinary effort, and not
> your everyday RC model, BTW), I would not consider UAV's in the sense of
> UAV's. They remain in visual range of the pilot, which actually isn't
> very far.
>
> RC pilots are not a threat to "full size" aviation, unless someone is
> stupid enough to break the rules about flying too close to airports.
>
> John
>

[bowman]

Pete Schaefer wrote:

> There's an R/C airfield that is alarmingly close to the Van Nuys airfield
> in SoCal. It is watched pretty closely, but I would hardly consider the
> R/C guys to not be a "threat". There have been incidents. You should see
> the place. Talk about "too close to airports".

I used to fly at an uncontrolled where people would fly R/C at the airport.
Nice Sunday afternoon, you'd have R/C's, gliders, sky divers, ag planes,
and the odd helicopter. Kept life interesting.

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[Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired]

bowman wrote:
> Pete Schaefer wrote:
>
>
>>There's an R/C airfield that is alarmingly close to the Van Nuys airfield
>>in SoCal. It is watched pretty closely, but I would hardly consider the
>>R/C guys to not be a "threat". There have been incidents. You should see
>>the place. Talk about "too close to airports".
>
>
> I used to fly at an uncontrolled where people would fly R/C at the airport.
> Nice Sunday afternoon, you'd have R/C's, gliders, sky divers, ag planes,
> and the odd helicopter. Kept life interesting.
>

What would have been more interesting would be to have a friend at
their field with a transmitter while you fly patterns.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Roger]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:07:53 -0500, "Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired"
> wrote:

>bowman wrote:
>> Pete Schaefer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There's an R/C airfield that is alarmingly close to the Van Nuys airfield
>>>in SoCal. It is watched pretty closely, but I would hardly consider the
>>>R/C guys to not be a "threat". There have been incidents. You should see
>>>the place. Talk about "too close to airports".
>>
>>
>> I used to fly at an uncontrolled where people would fly R/C at the airport.
>> Nice Sunday afternoon, you'd have R/C's, gliders, sky divers, ag planes,
>> and the odd helicopter. Kept life interesting.
>>
>
> What would have been more interesting would be to have a friend at
>their field with a transmitter while you fly patterns.

We have several pilots who are accomplished RC pilots as well. The
bring their models, some of which are big enough to require a trailer
and fly them at the field on occasion. Yes, they have several
helicopters as well. It's amazing to see a max effort take off with
one of those. Wind it right up to maximum then watch it climb
straight up several hundred feet so fast you can hardly follow it.

However the serious RCers have their own field about 5 miles from us
and there is almost always some one out there flying on a half way
decent day. Calm, warm, spring and summer days bring them out.

As to not being any threat, it all depends. Some of those models are
far faster than my Deb, or any of the other planes based at our field
and may weight several hundred pounds. OTOH I'd not want to be flying
very low over in that area anyway.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Morgans]

"bowman" > wrote

> I used to fly at an uncontrolled where people would fly R/C at the
airport.
> Nice Sunday afternoon, you'd have R/C's, gliders, sky divers, ag planes,
> and the odd helicopter. Kept life interesting.

It isn't that hard at a not-very-busy airport, to keep an eye out for "big
planes" entering the pattern, and landing, when they do. It is a worthwhile
trade-off for the RC'er, given the pavement and wide open spaces to enjoy!
--
Jim in NC

[bowman]

Roger wrote:

> Yes, they have several
> helicopters as well. It's amazing to see a max effort take off with
> one of those. Wind it right up to maximum then watch it climb
> straight up several hundred feet so fast you can hardly follow it.

A guy at work is into R/C helicopters and I've watched some of his videos. I
think there are some laws of physics getting violated :) I especially like
the upside-down weedeater effect.


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[Bob Martin]

Morgans wrote:
> "bowman" > wrote
>
>
>>I used to fly at an uncontrolled where people would fly R/C at the
>
> airport.
>
>>Nice Sunday afternoon, you'd have R/C's, gliders, sky divers, ag planes,
>>and the odd helicopter. Kept life interesting.
>
>
> It isn't that hard at a not-very-busy airport, to keep an eye out for "big
> planes" entering the pattern, and landing, when they do. It is a worthwhile
> trade-off for the RC'er, given the pavement and wide open spaces to enjoy!

My dad and I were out at the local RC field one day, and we just
happened to look up when everyone's airplanes were on the ground... and
there was this Cub circling overhead. Well, he started to get lower...
and lower... and finally came by to do a touch and go on our 300ft
astroturf runway! Big smiles and waves all around...

(and yes, I realize that it was rather stupid and dangerous...)

Also, many years before (when my dad was stationed at Norfolk) we used
to fly off a taxiway at an old naval air station (or maybe just the old
part of the base). Had to go in and check with the guys on duty every
time though, in case the C-2's and E-2's were doing landing practice
that day. I also remember going out there once with my mom when my dad
was up doing training, and they landed to have lunch with us. Got to
get up close and personal with an E-2 that day....

[Robert Bonomi]

In article >,
Bob Martin > wrote:
>Morgans wrote:
>> "bowman" > wrote
>>
>>
>>>I used to fly at an uncontrolled where people would fly R/C at the
>>
>> airport.
>>
>>>Nice Sunday afternoon, you'd have R/C's, gliders, sky divers, ag planes,
>>>and the odd helicopter. Kept life interesting.
>>
>>
>> It isn't that hard at a not-very-busy airport, to keep an eye out for "big
>> planes" entering the pattern, and landing, when they do. It is a worthwhile
>> trade-off for the RC'er, given the pavement and wide open spaces to enjoy!
>
>My dad and I were out at the local RC field one day, and we just
>happened to look up when everyone's airplanes were on the ground... and
>there was this Cub circling overhead. Well, he started to get lower...
>and lower... and finally came by to do a touch and go on our 300ft
>astroturf runway! Big smiles and waves all around...


back in the early 70's, the local R/C club was having a big event
at their 'airport'. some guy in a Cessna (as I recall) trike got
into the pattern, and actually *landed* on the circa 500' of blacktop
'main runway'.

It was several _weeks_ before he managed to get the plane back out -- had
to wait for a day with high enough headwinds to get airborne before
encountering the cornfield.